While I support much of what Bernie Sanders stands for

[AndreaCG]

I see no chance of him winning a general election. The term socialist is a filthy word in American politics, though it shouldn't be. And he simply won't get the $ to run against the billions the republican fat cats will put up. But I am glad he's running in the primaries, to get sensible progressive ideas into the conversation, and bring Hillary to the left. Without a good primary challenge Hillary would be rusty and this keeps the democrats in the spotlight during primary season. So bravo Bernie!

[JaneyVee]

1. I'm glad he's running too.

Bernie makes me proud. Although I share your concerns about his electability, nothing bad could come from him running. He deserves to be heard.

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. Plus he runs interference for HRC!

He is taking one "for the team"

[shenmue]

8. No.

He is not.

[JaneyVee]

14. Last poll taken in October 2014 had Hillary +6 on Sanders in Vermont.

And she's up by 70+ in almost every other state compared to Sanders, so I doubt he's running "interference", but he deserves to be heard.

[JimDandy]

19. Confused much?

You've been all over the board INSISTING he's not a Dem, but now you have him "taking one for the team".



Keep it together there, Mack.

[arcane1]

51. They haven't been able to settle on a narrative yet n/t

[Iggo]

75. That's one of the funner things about Trial Balloon Central...I mean Democratic Underground.

[VanillaRhapsody]

7. Have you even ever noticed this woman's record? She has ALWAYS been LEFT

my god the cognitive dissonance!

[shenmue]

12. Doesn't matter

It's a personal thing.

[Thinkingabout]

17. Perhaps Hillary can move Bernie tothe right, he is too far left for me.

[KMOD]

24. what is too far left?

There is not a whole lot of space between the two of them in reality.

[Thinkingabout]

56. Are you thinking Bernie is not left enough?

[KMOD]

71. I just don't understand what too far left is.

That's all.

[Thinkingabout]

72. Then it does not matter to you.

[AgingAmerican]

103. It is 'clean sounding' way of saying

"Not right wing enough"

[HERVEPA]

37. On what issues is he too far to the left. Please explain.

[Thinkingabout]

57. You can make your decision on what is too far left or right, l am entitled to my

Opinion without having to explain.

[Iggo]

76. A measurement on a secret scale is a worthless measurement.

[HERVEPA]

77. Thank You

[Thinkingabout]

85. I have not seen your measurement, it is not secret, it is my opinion.

[Iggo]

89. The measurement was yours: "...he's too far left for me."

I just observed that it's worthless if you won't say what he's too far left of or what issues he's too far left on.

Smacks of "Too many notes."

[Thinkingabout]

90. How can you judge what I say as worthless unless you first know the meaning of left

and right. Instead of repeating yourself over and over give some points you like your candidate.

[Iggo]

91. It's been asked of you what your meaning of too far left is, but you won't answer.

[Thinkingabout]

92. Now do you get the clue I am not going to answer?

[Iggo]

93. Now do you see why it's worthless?

[HERVEPA]

78. Yes you are. And it is rather worthless to post if you can't explain it.

[Thinkingabout]

86. I see lots of worthless post here, there is not a requirement to explain.

Either you have your measurement or you don't, everyone needs their own opinion, it is still a freedom we have here in the us. Don't badger me.

[HERVEPA]

95. Wow. Just wow.

[Iggo]

106. I guess "too far left" needs to be scratched from the list.

I love Trial Balloon Central.

[HERVEPA]

112. Yep. Pretty bad when you can't define the terms you use.

[JonLP24]

42. So which is it that would help Bernie Sanders?

Perhaps taking "donations" from the House of Saud, the King of Morocco, or a large number of other foreign donors with obvious nefarious intentions. Or perhaps ordering spying on UN leaders?

[Thinkingabout]

59. No, it would be going to meetings with lobbyists and then critizising others for like behavior.

[JimDandy]

22. Your Left, Your Right... Your Left, We're right, she's Right.

Nope, no cognative dissonance there.

[RobertEarl]

4. Grassroots beats money

And the same was said about Obama in 2007!

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. Yeah....that was pure grass that got Obama elected!!!!

no money was involved at all!!!!

[RobertEarl]

15. Grassroots beats money

Grassroots stopped nukes cold. The environmental movement made a ton of changes without a lot of money and against big, big money.

Bernie already has a campaign going on grassroots money. And yeah, it was the grassroots that worked their asses off for Obama, and that was the main reason Obama won. I was there.

The revolution will not be televised, because the TV won't cover Bernie. The people will. This is a people campaign. Just what this country needs to beat big money interests.

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. Oh really????

In our Presidential elections?

[RobertEarl]

21. Obama

After taking all that big money Obama was beholden to them.

Bernie will not owe anybody but the grassroots people.

I find it odd you laugh at grassroots power. Oh well.

[Cleita]

6. So I guess he shouldn't try because you think he can't win.

Maybe he can win without all the big bucks. It's time for someone to try.

[VanillaRhapsody]

10. Without campaign finance reform

against billions and billions of dollars just the Kochs alone will pony up?

[muriel_volestrangler]

60. The OP says "I am glad he's running in the primaries"

Did you read that far?

[Cleita]

68. Hillary is "running in the primaries" as well until there is a winner.

That's what primaries are about, selecting a candidate for the general election. This is a Bernie group so if you aren't on board with him, then you should post your rude comments in the candidate group you are supporting.

[muriel_volestrangler]

83. This is not 'a Bernie group'; it's General Discussion

I didn't post any rude comments anyway.

Did you mean to post this reply somewhere else?

[Cleita]

94. Sorry about that it's not in the group. I was posting there.

However, saying I didn't read the OP, like I'm some kind of infant, is rude no matter which discussion forum or group it's in. Now that I have apologized to you, you can apologize to me.

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. Why did you say "So I guess he shouldn't try because you think he can't win"

even though the OP made clear they were happy he is running? It didn't make sense - unless you'd stopped reading early on. People do, on DU.

[Cleita]

98. That's a strange apology considering what people do on DU is not necessarily what

I do. You would have to be a psychic to know that.

[muriel_volestrangler]

99. I still don't understand why you made post #6

Are you saying you did read the bit about the thread starter being glad that Sen. Sanders is running, but you decided to ignore it anyway?

Not, of course I'm not psychic; that's why I asked you a question - did you read as far as the "I'm glad" bit?

[Cleita]

100. Are you just argumentative? Does picking on people and making them look foolish appeal to you?

Are you even a US citizen? Why would you come here are argue with a Californian over a fight you don't have a dog in? How would you like it if I went to a UK message board and started a rude fight with some Brits over the Queen maybe, which I would have no reason to.

[muriel_volestrangler]

102. I thought you were picking on the thread starter

by attributing a view (that Sanders shouldn't run) to them when they had explicitly stated they were glad he's running. Have you considered apologising to them for that? I don't think I've made you look foolish; but you still seem unfair on the thread starter.

I do converse with Americans on UK political message boards. It's fine by me.

[Cleita]

104. Apparently you didn't read my post. I was disagreeing with her that Bernie

couldn't win as a discussion, not a nitpick. I wasn't picking on her by any stretch of the imagination. We are allowed to disagree with each other here.

[muriel_volestrangler]

108. "I guess he shouldn't try" is your own opinion, then?

OK, I apologise for thinking you were saying someone else was saying that, when it's you saying he shouldn't try.

[Cleita]

109. Oh, give it up. You know what I meant and so did the OP.

I do enjoy some of your posts. I find them very informative when you are serious. Too bad you have to descend into such assholery about stupid shit, especially with me. I'm just an old woman trying to fight a descent into dementia on an inadequate Social Security check. So maybe I'm not as articulate always as I wish I were but really you are wasting your time and my time with this.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

9. And yet, we were all constantly told Obama was a socialist, and he still won twice.

The people to whom 'socialist' is a 'filthy word' didn't vote for Obama, and they won't vote for whomever the Dems run.

And Bernie isn't running just to be a foil for Hillary.

[VanillaRhapsody]

13. I never heard that about him anymore than ANY Democrat is...

IN FACT I was for Hillary because SHE was to his left....just like she is now....always has been


and yes he will be a foil for Hillary...whether he intends to or not.

[sendero]

81. LOL..

.... yes, just like Obama's was in 2008.

[Hutzpa]

11. You've just open yourself up for all kinds of attack.

Good luck.

[merrily]

26. Notice: no one is claiming any kind of bigotry, like ageism, because of a different political view.

FYI, political disagreement on a political message board does not = attack.

[Hutzpa]

30. I must have pissed in your coffee

hence the trolling.

[merrily]

36. LMAO! Don't take it personally. When you're wrong, you're wrong, that's all.

[Hutzpa]

41. You must have mistaken me for somebody else

especially an egocentric of which I'm not.

[okasha]

20. No money+no name recognition+no coattails=

Republican President+Republican Congress+conservative SCOTUS

I like Sanders. I don't like him enough to sacrifice the rest of the country for him.

[merrily]

28. Hillary has money, but no coattails.

[Scootaloo]

29. That's a pretty grotesque perception

[merrily]

38. Merry Supreme Court and a very Happy, Healthy and Prosperous President Cruz to you.

I call that tactic terrorism politicking.

[Scootaloo]

40. I just call it "dumbfucks gibbering on the internet" - but I'm not very poetic

[merrily]

45. Supreme Court, President Cruz and the country just can't recover. Terrorism politicking.

Dumbfucks who buy into talking point memes and/or think the rest of us will works for me too, though.

I'm nothing if not flexible.

[arcane1]

52. Are candidates supposed to have all the money BEFORE the campaign starts now?

So only the rich and rich-funded even get a chance to try? Candidates can no longer raise money during their campaign?

Fuck that!

[pkdu]

53. You have engaged the "la, la , la ,la ,la" wing of DU , don't expect reasoned argument . Nt

[KMOD]

23. I remember that my area was abuzz when

Socialists Bill and Hillary Clinton came to town to campaign for socialist Kirsten Gilibrand in a fight for congressman kick-ass's seat.

Strange, that district was traditionally red, but the socialist Gillibrand won.

The only people who believe that socialist is a filthy word, are people who have no intention of ever voting anything but R.

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. Here's a thread with a couple of polls of how people feel about the word 'socialism'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026594289

A majority of Democrats have a positive view of socialism (53% of Democrats plus leaners in the Gallup poll versus 41% negative; 44% to 43% in the Pew poll), but not by much. And the negative numbers increase for Independents. It's not just the Republican core that distrusts the word. So Sanders and his supporters need to get that number much better among Democrats, and improve the independent numbers too - up to, say, the 'positive' figure for 'federal government', which is positive for 67% of Democrats and leaners, 65% of liberals, 52% of moderates, and 51% of Americans overall.

The Pew poll shows, as a word, 'progressive' does really well - even a majority of Republicans like that. So if people can point out how Bernie's views are progressive, that could help a lot.

[Iggo]

111. With this I agree.

When a Democrat gets called a Socialist, they're not talking to Democrats or Socialists.

[AtomicKitten]

25. That kind of talk is an attempt to smother Bernie's candidacy before it even starts.

Whether you mean it or not is beside the point.

All through 2007-2008 we heard that NOBODY could beat Hillary with her huge name recognition and giant pile of cash. Surely not a black man with the middle name of Hussein, or at least that's what the Clinton campaign was selling at the time. How'd that work out again?

[merrily]

32. Always the only one who can possibly win the Presidential primary and the general.

If that's true, with the ginormous headstart she has, why even bother about Bernie or Warren? Why are the Bernie or Warren supporters the only ones who shouldn't post anything negative, even if it's supported with links and this kind of OP is crystal ball gazing, sans even crystal ball?

[AtomicKitten]

35. They've definitely sharpened their elbows, that's for sure.

The debates will be the great equalizer. Bernie will shine.

Harry S Truman: "No, sir, I don't give 'em hell, I just tell the truth and they think it's hell."

[merrily]

46. I've forgotten which Democrat said something like, I'll stop telling the truth about them if they

stop lying about us.

[AtomicKitten]

48. It was Adlai E. Stevenon II

“I offer my opponents a bargain: if they will stop telling lies about us, I will stop telling the truth about them”

Great quote!

[merrily]

49. Thanks! I wasn't sure. Style sounds like Abe Lincoln meets Harry Truman.

[Scootaloo]

27. So you think that Jeb Bush or Rand Paul can beat him?

[liberal_at_heart]

31. The conservatives have already cried wolf with that calling Obama a socialist. They are doing

us a favor by normalizing it. His populist views will resonate with millions of people.

[merrily]

33. Great way to look at it! Sure didn't keep Obama out of the Oval Office in 2008 or 2012 and now it's

a yawn, followed by a snooze for everyone but hard core wingnuts.

I like meme busting and paradigm shifts. Among other things, they cut against the incessant brainwashing and ubiquitous message control. Kudos

[ProfessorGAC]

61. Not Sure I Buy That Merrily

I hope the other poster is right and the term has lost its punch because they used it incorrectly against Obama. But, i think it may be more due to the simple fact that anybody who paid attention for more than 5 minutes knew that Obama was wealthy, a best selling author, didn't give the money into the collective good (kept it), and was therefore not a socialist.

I don't think the right defused the word. It was just so OBVIOUSLY incorrect in Obama's case that the preonderance of people just ignored it.

[merrily]

62. To be fair, in 2008, he wasn't that wealthy--something between 1 and 2 million, IIRC, and all from

sales of his books, which had picked up from 2004-2008, I think even Sanders made, as my sister says, a dollar three eighty, from sales of his book. Compare that to the around $100 million that was on Hillary's disclosure at the time.

But, it is what it is, and there is a huge difference between Socialist and Democratic Socialist. Hopefully, Sanders will be able to explain that to the satisfaction of anyone who cares as clearly as he explains other things.

[ProfessorGAC]

84. You're Correct

Although a couple million at the age he was at the time isn't anything to sneeze at. And, it still stands that an actual committed socialist wouldn't have kept the money, or would have at least lied about having made that much! Obama did neither.

I just Bernie can make enough noise to put some meaningful planks in the economic platform of the dems.

[merrily]

87. Planks, shmanks.

[ProfessorGAC]

113. A Snarky Reply To Agreement?

Really? What's up with that?

[merrily]

115. No snark toward you intended. Skepticism as to platforms and their planks intended.

[JonLP24]

34. It doesn't matter who is the Democratic nominee

The Republicans are going to call him & believe he is a socialist. People to this day still believe Obama is a Marxist Muslim that is going to sneak USSR style socialism on us. If Bernie Sanders is the nominee than the media will have no choice but to let him speak which is where he is at his best. Hillary Clinton & all of the others, especially Rand Paul have too much of a problem saying one thing one day & saying another a different day & she is so obviously phony when she is pandering. "Topple the 1%"? WTH does that even mean? "dodging sniper fire", she is a much bigger risk of putting her foot in her mouth & losing the narrative therefore losing the election.

No chance? He essentially supports all those issues Most Americans poll in favor of, it is Republicans that are heavy underdogs during General election. The only chance the Republicans is their War on Voting, that is why they do so well during midterms because of the 36% turnout. Hillary Clinton already has nearly half that strongly dislike, very polarizing. How long have they been calling her a socialist?

[merrily]

47. Let's talk polls on issues:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777036

[JonLP24]

50. The big one is expanding social security

Sanders Files Bill to Strengthen, Expand Social Security

WASHINGTON, March 12 – As boxes of petitions signed by 2 million Americans were hauled into the Capitol today, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) introduced legislation to expand benefits and strengthen the retirement program for generations to come.

The Social Security Expansion Act was filed on the same day Sanders and other senators received the petitions gathered by the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare.

“Social Security is the most successful government program in our nation's history. Through good times and bad, Social Security has paid out every benefit owed to every eligible American,” Sanders said. “The most effective way to strengthen Social Security for the future is to eliminate the cap on the payroll tax on all income above $250,000 so millionaires and billionaires pay the same share as everyone else.”

Sanders’ measure would make the wealthiest Americans pay their fair share. Under current law, the amount of income subject to the payroll tax is capped at $118,500. That means someone making millions of dollars a year pays the same amount in payroll taxes as some making $118,500 a year. The legislation would subject all income over $250,000 to the payroll tax. Doing so would impact only the top 1.5 percent of wage earners, the Center for Economic Policy Research has estimated.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-calls-on-congress-to-strengthen-and-expand-social-security

While mainstream Democrats were running around talking about yet another payroll tax cut because it makes Republicans look like hypocrites on tax cuts during campaign season, Bernie Sanders was still talking about "lifting the cap" which used to be a traditional Democratic position which also is what most Americans support as well.

Americans want to raise payroll taxes and increase Social Security benefits. Its why it only took 15 minutes for Republicans to turn around and call Democrats the "cut social security party" when the Obama administration floated the chained-CPI cuts -- I live in the most conservative city of 250,000+ and heard Republicans say to others "Did you know Obama wants to cut social security?" I'm not making this up -- Democrats would be better served running on issues most Americans support & most Americans vote for Democrats except the midterms because the Democrats stay home & the white older conservative voters do which is all who the Republicans have to count on for their support.

[cantbeserious]

39. Rationalizations - We Have Seen It All Before - Why Settle For Less - When Very Good Is At Hand

Bernie Supporter - Better Than HRC Any Day Of The Week!

[merrily]

43. DON'T LET THE PERFECT BE THE ENEMY OF THE GOOD.

Ok, thanks Rahm.

[smokey nj]

65. The mantra of mediocrity!

[merrily]

67. Or, the mantra of "whatever we give you is the best possible

thing in the world of reality. Anything better than we are prepared to give you shall be henceforth known as impossible."

Not as catchy, but it's how I see it. I can't help it.

[longship]

44. But, but, but, but, but...

But nothing.

[AgingAmerican]

54. So you are saying Democrats want another right winger

DOH!!

[brooklynite]

69. I'M saying they want another mainstream Democrat...

...I suspect most Democrats don't define "right winger" the way you do...

[AgingAmerican]

79. Bernie is a mainstream Democrat

Bernie's policies line up almost perfectly with what polls have shown the people want. He doesn't have to 'evolve' like those to the right whom you consider, 'mainstream'.

[brooklynite]

80. Unfortunately he doesn't label himself that way...

[Gothmog]

55. I personally like and admire Bernie but do not think that he could be viable

The Kochs alone will spend $890 million and the GOP will be spending a great deal. Bernie will need to raise at least $1 million to be competitive

[99Forever]

58. The most ridiculous thought on Earth is:

The very same idiots that think being a declared "Democratic Socialist" is evil and scary, are going to instead vote for Hillary Clinton.

A special kind of really dumb.

[deutsey]

64. I like Bernie, too, and am glad he's running

However, I don't think he can get the nomination.

I think that says more about how rotten and tilted our system is than it does about Bernie and what he stands for.

But we need him to run as tenaciously and as outspokenly as he can, even so.

[kentuck]

66. They said the same thing about Jimmy Carter...

as I recall?

[One of the 99]

73. Who did?

Please provide links.

[PowerToThePeople]

70. blah, blah, blah. inevitable hillary.

Ssdd

[Bluenorthwest]

74. My question for the OP is this. If you support much of what Bernie stands for, which parts do you

not support?

I hold the currently unusual opinion that money is poorly understood as a factor in politics. Sure, a person needs enough money, but fact is that enough is enough, more does not always mean better and too much can be as toxic as not enough.
In our political discussions people seem to assume that buying up airtime and running lots of ads is a magical guarantee of success, but a step outside of politics very quickly demonstrates that a larger marketing budget is not a promise of success, that over saturation of advertising can reverse a positive view of a product or person into apathy or animosity with alarming speed.
If just spending more on marketing created success in a marketplace, no film would flop, no product roll out would fail. So, clearly that's not how it works because many films flop and most products do not have long term success. Why would a company take a loss if they could just spend a bit more and rake in glorious profits?

[Hiraeth]

82. Good points. Good question.

[Pooka Fey]

105. Agreed! Spending more on marketing doesn't give an automatic win

[Stellar]

88. I like Bernie too, I'm just afraid for him.

His age is a problem. I've noticed how Obama has aged over the years. Would it kill Bernie?

[NCTraveler]

97. All Sanders needs to do is get through the primaries.

That is where I think you are wrong. I can understand some thinking he can't win in the primary. If he makes it out of the primary he will stand a good chance. He will have a billion dollar campaign. No doubt about it. It is then about the team around you.

[Proud Public Servant]

101. Unclutch your pearls: anyone who can beat Hillary can beat

whatever Bozo the GOP nominates...provided, of course, that Hillary and her supporters back that candidate as enthusiastically as they expect other candidates and their supporters to back Hillary.

OTOH, if the Hillary people go all PUMA again, then you may have a point -- but that problem doesn't lie with Bernie.

[AgingAmerican]

107. This thinking is what got us where we are now

We need to break out of this fear paralysis. So the GOP will not like it, boo hoo.

[Maedhros]

110. We should not let the conservative media dictate which politicians we support. [n/t]

[LWolf]

114. If you won't support what you support,

what you support can never win.

[Tsiyu]

116. Nobody thought a little peanut farmer from Georgia would win either

just sayin.'

Bernie's got the old, the young and the jaded, and that's a lot of folks.

One thing politics will teach you is that you can never predict what will happen this early in the game.