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Mon Apr 27, 2015, 06:41 PM

 

W/ Respect to Baltimore and Freddie Gray. Have you forgotten the origins of the US?

It seems that many, many people have forgotten that the USA was not founded by peaceful means. It was founded in a bloody war for independence from British rule. There was looting - think about the Tea Party in Boston Harbor. There were arms brought to bear against the oppression of the British troops and Monarchy - the police of that day.

Freedom is not free. It takes people willing to sacrifice to achieve and maintain freedom. It most often does not come quietly and with niceties.

Just as our founding fathers saw that the corruption and oppression of the British Monarchy had to be overthrown; now people are seeing that our police and our legal system no longer serve the average person. Both are tools of the elite, the monied, the powerful.

So there will be violence. That is the nature of things. If one but looks to history one will see that is true.

The only question that remains is "On which side will you throw in your lot?" Will you continue to live your comfortable life provided to you by the elite? Or will you admit things are really messed up in this country and need correction?

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Reply W/ Respect to Baltimore and Freddie Gray. Have you forgotten the origins of the US? (Original post)
dballance Apr 2015 OP
NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #1
dballance Apr 2015 #4
NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #6
marym625 Apr 2015 #2
KG Apr 2015 #3
dballance Apr 2015 #8
cwydro Apr 2015 #5
dballance Apr 2015 #9
cwydro Apr 2015 #14
cherokeeprogressive Apr 2015 #17
cali Apr 2015 #7
cwydro Apr 2015 #15
dballance Apr 2015 #18
davidn3600 Apr 2015 #19
Major Hogwash Apr 2015 #10
cali Apr 2015 #13
HipChick Apr 2015 #11
wiggs Apr 2015 #12
WillyT Apr 2015 #16
LiberalEsto Apr 2015 #20

Response to dballance (Original post)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 06:44 PM

1. Many folks sit back in their easy chair and judge the actions of people they have no clue

about

Yes, violence may be the end result of 200 yrs of violence against black folk

would be great if we could avoid that, though

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Response to NoJusticeNoPeace (Reply #1)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 06:49 PM

4. I wish we could avoid violence.

 

However, I just don't see that it is possible to avoid violence, civil disobedience and the like.

No manner of talking and attempting to use the courts and legislatures has provided any sort of solution.

I must certainly say I do not advocate violence. Those police and others feel they are correct in their beliefs and their defending of the Elite, Monied, Powerful. They are but pawns on the Chess Board. Lower-class pieces that can be easily sacrificed.

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Response to dballance (Reply #4)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 06:51 PM

6. And even that last part of what you say, while true, they werent defending anybody when they

killed this kid or Eric Garner or the rest.

There is a culture of violence in our police, and they seem to hate black people, most of them.

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Response to dballance (Original post)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 06:45 PM

2. K&R

pete seeger which side are you on



It may be about unions but it still fits

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Response to dballance (Original post)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 06:48 PM

3. the am rev was not a peasant uprising. it was a tax revolt by the rich.

thing for the peasant class were pretty much the same after independence

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Response to KG (Reply #3)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 06:55 PM

8. KG, You are Correct

 

The wealthy aristocracy of the US (aka our Founding Fathers) were rich, educated men with property and slaves. One only has to look at the fact they restricted voting to White, Male, Property Owners and counted African Americans as 3/5s of a person. Poor whites with no property were treated only marginally better than African Americans.

I would have to say the tide didn't turn until the 1960's when the Civil Rights act passed. Even the 14th Amendment passed after the Civil War did little to level the playing field.

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Response to dballance (Original post)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 06:50 PM

5. Oh please, the tea was thrown in the water.

I'm watching a liquor store being looted.

Trying to understand how that will help curb police brutality.

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Response to cwydro (Reply #5)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:05 PM

9. So you're saying the revolutionaries didn't loot the ships?

 

Sure, the Tea Party was quite focused on the scourge of British Taxes.

That doesn't excuse the fact that private merchant ships, like private liquor stores and CVS, were looted and set afire.

How will looting and destruction help curb police brutality? It will help in the same way that our Founding Fathers and revolutionaries stood up to the police of their day. The British troops.

You really must get back in touch with history. You must realize that there was guerrilla warfare waged by our founders against the monarchy. Businesses that were known to be loyal to the Crown were burned. Tories left the US for Britain.

Opposing the status quo and those in power is never pretty.

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Response to dballance (Reply #9)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:15 PM

14. Ridiculous

that you would compare the Boston Tea Party to this looting.

Period.

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Response to dballance (Reply #9)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:22 PM

17. I've never read anywhere that the ships were burned. Only that the tea was dumped.

 

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Response to dballance (Original post)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 06:52 PM

7. spurious. The Tea Party was a result of planned action

 

as was the Revolutionary War. It had nothing to do with mob violence.

Your comparison is wholly without merit.

One can sympathize with the rage and pain, but sorry, your comparison is ignorant.

Oh, and mobs suck. They always suck and I can't think of a single beneficial thing that has come out of unplanned, inchoate, mob action.

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Response to cali (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:16 PM

15. Yes.

Well said.

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Response to cali (Reply #7)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:24 PM

18. I generally agree with your posts Cali. Not this time.

 

You are correct that mobs suck. You are correct the Tea Party was planned. Not spontaneous.

However, your assertion that they, mobs, never accomplish anything is wrong. You might want to ask Marie Antoinette who lost her head at the force of a mob. I believe the peasants of France would challenge your assertion that nothing good comes from a mob.

I do not condone mobs. I simply seek to understand them. Perhaps our legislators should do the same. They are, after all, supposed to be the representatives of the people. Mobs coelesce for a reason.

Thank you for commenting on my post and asking me to explain my thoughts.

I hope you will concede that many acts by colonists during the Revolutionary War were not planned offensives. They were the result of outright disobedience by the colonists. More spontaneous than planned.

That, I believe, is unfortunately where we are today. Not a single day goes by when there is a news story about Police killing an unarmed African American person. I'm quite tired of the "He reached for his waistband" defense.

People need to say to the police "STOP." It is quite apparent that the "justice" system is not addressing the issue. Sorry, but mobs just might be the only answer to get people to wake up.

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Response to dballance (Reply #18)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:36 PM

19. It's not the same...this riot won't solve anything at all.

 

What you have here are pictures plastered all over TV of black youths trashing police cars, setting pharmacies on fire, and wearing gas masks while cutting holes in fire hoses. What exactly is the point that you are trying to get across? Because right now to most Americans....the Baltimore police are increasingly looking like the "good guys."

Also, these riots are mainly taking place not in country clubs or gated communities...they are taking place in poor neighborhoods with high concentration of minorities. Most of the businesses being looted are owned by blacks and/or employ black people. People who work at these places now no longer have a job. And the owners will get an insurance pay out and set up shop somewhere else where there is no threat of violence. That means the poor get poorer.

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Response to dballance (Original post)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:08 PM

10. I was talking to sheshe about the Boston Massacre last year after the Ferguson showtrial was over.

The only difference now is that it is in a different city in a different state on a different date.

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Response to Major Hogwash (Reply #10)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:11 PM

13. false. The tea party was a carefully planned and executed action

 

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Response to dballance (Original post)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:09 PM

11. Nothing good can come from a land that has blood on it's hands..

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Response to dballance (Original post)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:11 PM

12. Speaking of history...I'm reading a book that recounts a VERY similar

time in our recent past...Thurston Clarke's 'The Last Campaign', about three months of the RFK campaign in the 60's. Amazing book, amazing candidate and person in RFK. But at that time there was extreme civil unrest, killing of blacks (including leaders like MLK), wealth inequality, unjust war, public health debates. REALLY striking parallels to our time now. The sad thing is we are arguing about many of the same issues! But RFK was able to knit various interests together, create coalitions of unlikely bedfellows because he was truthful, honest, authentic, and realistic. He not only spoke truth to power...but even as a representative of the powerful he spoke the truth. He admittedly had money and everything in life that one could ask for and said as much during his campaign speeches...but he spent the most time and effort with the poor and suffering...learning, seeing, feeling, understanding.

RFK's approach was that he refused to talk just about law and order to white audiences and just about civil justice to black or poor audiences. He courageously stayed in reality and talked about both justice and law and order wherever he went. He was authentically compassionate but had civil order creds...was apparently becoming a rock star 'change' politician prior to his assassination.

He was refreshing then and would be even more so now. Tragic for our country that he wasn't able to serve as president. I highly recommend the book for not only historical perspective but for insight into our own current state of the nation.

Re the OP...He did not think violence was necessary, but he thought a revolution was. More so a moral revolution than an armed one. More so inspiration to do something productive than to do something destructive. It was GIANT change without blood (he had witnessed enough blood, of course).

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Response to dballance (Original post)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 07:19 PM

16. And The Labor Movement:

 

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002755708

And the Civil Rights Movement:

Link: http://tinyurl.com/otffuch

The goal was to improve our society so that this became unnecessary.

Apparently we have failed.


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Response to dballance (Original post)

Mon Apr 27, 2015, 08:33 PM

20. Let's not forget the slaughter of the native peoples who were living here

 

when the first European settlers began arriving.

I have an uneasy sense that this nation was founded on some really bad karma. And that things aren't going to get better until we as a nation recognize this, and recognize the evils of slavery, and make some serious changes and reparations.

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