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Mon May 7, 2012, 08:04 PM

A 13-Year-Old's Slavery Analogy Raises Some Uncomfortable Truths in School

Last edited Tue May 8, 2012, 01:15 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.good.is/post/a-13-year-old-s-slavery-analogy-raises-some-uncomfortable-truths-in-school/?fb_ref=rightrail


edited to add video links:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=657845




A 13-Year-Old's Slavery Analogy Raises Some Uncomfortable Truths in School

Liz Dwyer
Education Editor


douglass

In a bold comparative analysis of The Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, Jada Williams, a 13-year old eighth grader at School #3 in Rochester, New York, asserted that in her experience, today's education system is a modern-day version of slavery. According to the Fredrick Douglass Foundation of New York, the schools' teachers and administrators were so offended by Williams' essay that they began a campaign of harassment—kicking her out of class and trying to suspend her—that ultimately forced her parents to withdraw her from the school.

In her essay, which was written for a contest, Williams reflected on what Douglass heard his slave master, Mr. Auld, telling his wife after catching her teaching Douglass how to read. "If you teach that nigger (speaking of myself) how to read, there will be no keeping him," Auld says. "It will forever unfit him to be a slave. He would at once become unmanageable, and of no value to his master."

Williams wrote that overcrowded, poorly managed classrooms prevent real learning from happening and thus produces the same results as Mr. Auld's outright ban. She wrote that her white teachers—the vast majority of Rochester students are black and Hispanic, but very few teachers are people of color—are in a "position of power to dictate what I can, cannot, and will learn, only desiring that I may get bored because of the inconsistency and the mismanagement of the classroom."

Instead of truly teaching, most teachers simply "pass out pamphlets and packets" and then expect students to complete them independently, Williams wrote. But this approach fails, she concluded, because "most of my peers cannot read and or comprehend the material that has been provided." As a result, she continued, not much has changed since the time of Douglass, "just different people, different era" and "the same old discrimination still resides in the hearts of the white man." Williams called for her fellow students to "start making these white teachers accountable for instructing you" and challenged teachers to do their jobs. "What merit is there," she asked, if teachers have knowledge and are "not willing to share because of the color of my skin?"

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:09 PM

1. Sorry, but I think that is an comparison that is a bit over the top

 

In fact I contend that comparing virtually anything to American slavery is akin to Godwin's law, ie, you automatically lose the argument.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #1)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:12 PM

5. you're not a minority,

are you?

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Response to mzteris (Reply #5)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:14 PM

7. Does it matter?

 

I know about the horrors of slavery, and these kids aren't getting bought or sold, they aren't being physically beaten or killed. They are free to come and go, legally.

Yes, they go to a suck ass school, but that certainly isn't slavery.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #7)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:43 PM

37. No they're just being DELIBERATELY given an education which...

 

...qualifies them for nothing beyond the most menial and demeaning of dead end jobs. Jobs which for the most part do not even fucking exist any more.

They're kettled into communities where the exemplars of success are violent criminals who prey on the weak and defenseless. Communities which are DELIBERATELY underserviced to maintain this status quo.

No it's not EXACTLY the same as slavery. It's just keeping the uppity nigger in his/her FUCKING GOD ORDAINED PLACE of subordination by forcefully and deliberately ensuring his ignorance. To the point where a kid who asks to be educated is instead hounded out of school by the educators she embarrassed.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #37)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:08 PM

43. I agree

The system also keeps the private prison industry well supplied with the inmates they need to reap massive
profits at the expense of the taxpayer. Quite a wonderful gulag we have here.

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Response to mbuch64 (Reply #43)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:35 AM

144. And provides slave labor for many corporations who use prison labor

Many inmates work for for-profit corporations and are paid 20-30 cents an hour. That IS slavery, legalized. Read Michelle Alexander's "The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration..."
The 14th amendment ended slavery for all but inmates.

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Response to mbuch64 (Reply #43)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:06 PM

187. Not just imprisonment but loss of most American "Rights" such as voting..

Or owning a gun and many many more things are lost with a felony conviction.

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Response to mbuch64 (Reply #43)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:08 PM

286. Institutionalized racism.

Until that is eradicated, the circumstances for the majority of the minority will never change.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #37)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:36 PM

51. So you think that the white teachers in those schools are complicit

in keeping the darkies down, as the paper alleges?

'Cause I think that blaming the white teachers for the sorry state of their education is out and out racism.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #51)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:47 PM

61. Not to mention that schools in majority black, low-income areas are just as likely to have black

 

teachers.

That's why black teachers have been fired/laid off disproportionately in the era of "education reform".

Something rarely mentioned or responded to, though I keep bringing it up. No one wants to acknowledge *that* kind of racist policy.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #61)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:36 AM

117. +1. The % of minority teachers in NYC has declined precipitously and steadily since Bloomberg.

 

I'll acknowledge it.

The alleged "reformers" won't.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #51)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:14 PM

76. I think it's probably more about class than race per se,

but I think she's making some very valid points.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #37)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:40 PM

55. Deliberately? Man those teachers must be monsters huh?

 

Although I suppose all white kids grow up dreaming about the day when they can move to the inner city and intentionally deny blacks kids an education. You know, for the fabulous wealth that inner city public school teachers are rewarded with. And the respect. And the power.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #55)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:12 PM

75. Not willfully so. But a significant proportion of them are so RESENTFUL of being...

 

...sent to teach in such communities that they DO take it out on their students.

However, the problem IS NOT primarily the teachers on the front line, although in this case their behaviour is fucking excoriable. The problem is the education administrators and lawmakers who formulate the policies and refuse to provide the funding neccessary to bring about change. The problem is the greater community which writes off ghetto kids as not worth the fucking bother, before they are even born.

The problem is people who falaciously point to the rare examples of success in the face of impossible odds and declare "Well if he could do it, so can/why can't all the rest."

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #75)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:48 AM

119. "*sent* to teach"? by who, may i ask?

 



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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #119)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:23 PM

191. You need to know something

about MadMonk...He's an Australian who

lives there, but fancies himself an expert

on Countries Not His Own.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #191)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:15 PM

236. thanks for the info. the picture he painted did seem a little cardboardy...

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #236)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:33 PM

274. You're welcome!

I've asked him several times if he doesn't have very

similar problems "closer to home" with the Aboriginals

in Australia, but I think he's ignoring me.

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Response to whathehell (Reply #274)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:18 PM

307. Yes we do, and no I am not. And yes our own institutional treatment...

 

...of Aboriginals is/was in it's own way just as bad.

However, we also recognise the problem and at the very least throw money at it. Still way too much guilt and not enough thought, but we're fucking trying.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #307)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:44 PM

309. Right..

and we ALSO "recognize the problem, and at the very least throw money at it",

more so in the past, of course, since the RW fascists are now trying to destroy

everything....Do you really think a black man could have been

elected to the presidency if we had not?



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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #75)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:48 AM

138. Oh bullshit. How insulting.

I chose to teach in urban schools. NO ONE SENT ME THERE. I work with a group of teachers of all racial backgrounds who are dedicated to our students and not resentful of being there.

What an absolutely ridiculous accusation.

The war on teachers. Right here at DU, ladies and gentlemen.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #138)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:15 AM

163. Teachers are the modern day slave-owners

 

you ought to be ashamed.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #163)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:40 AM

172. Happy Teacher Appreciation Week to us

LOL.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #138)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:30 PM

302. Cheers to you.

I tried, in my post below, to point out that this is simple promotion of anti-teacher rhetoric. The essay does not mention -- anyone who disagrees should watch her read her essay aloud -- the structural inequalities of the education system. Placing blame on the teachers is a load of crap and perpetuates right-wing nonsense that I expect from the likes of Paul Ryan, not the supposed liberals on DU.

My mother has been a public school teacher in Oakland, CA for nearly 30 years. Let me inform her that she is a modern day slave owner. In fact, tell that to the (mostly Latino and African-American) parents of her kids and they'd laugh you out of the building.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #138)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:29 PM

318. YOU chose. How many are where they are because it's the only place...

 

...that will have them? Hobson's choice is by definition not any choice at all.

I'm not at war with teachers, although there are specific individuals, both in my past, and in the media who I'd cheerfully smack upside the head with a 2x4 given the opportunity. The ones who refer to the female half of a couple of cuddling kids as "merchandise"; who call the cops on a six year old throwing a wobbly; who suspend or expell over a set of nail clippers or GI Joe gun; who perform strip searches on the sayso of another student looking to cop a plea; and peer into bedrooms through a school issue webcam.

AND hound a kid out of school because she dared to ask for a proper education, rather than settle for the absolute minimum needed to pass a worthless standardised test.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #75)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:14 AM

162. A significant proportion of white teachers are resentful of their black classes

 

what's significant? 10%? 20%? Maybe just shy of half? I assume you would have said most if it was more than half.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #75)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:14 PM

189. How do you know this?....Is this the way it is in your country with Aboriginals?

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #75)

Thu May 10, 2012, 09:12 PM

362. My sister has a Master's degree

 

She PURPOSEFULLY teaches in an inner city school. Almost ALL of her children that she teaches are black. She's white. She does it because she wants to make a difference.

It absolutely offends me to see people broad brush teachers knowing that my sister is one and does the very best that she can for her students.

You think that with a Master's degree she couldn't teach anywhere she fucking well wanted to teach? Blaming people that try to help because there are some people out there that don't is a poor way to encourage success.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #55)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:52 AM

179. Correct...Some here appear "at the ready" for apoplectic rage.

It seems especially inappropriate when they are foreign nationals who

don't live here, but imagine themselves possessed of some

"expertise" that somehow eludes the average DUer.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #55)

Thu May 10, 2012, 09:15 PM

363. Yeah

 

My sister is a real monster. With a Master's degree, and consistently being one of the top teachers in an inner city school. She's white. She's a really horrible human being, and she couldn't possibly get a job somewhere else the second she wanted one. She just loves being evil and intentionally making life miserable for kids.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #37)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:43 PM

56. Kettled? there's no kettling. economics is all it takes to segregate people by income.

 

and it's not limited to black people.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #56)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:21 PM

78. But "Swamp People" are a fucking hoot a minute. Right?

 

YES kettling: As in the deliberate withholding and withdrawal of services to make damned fucking sure that "those people" NEVER fucking escape their circumstances to bother "Good White Folk."

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #78)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:31 PM

81. kettling means to keep people within a certain area, as in kettling people during protests.

 

the main thing keeping people in economically segregated neighborhoods is economics.

and if you're saying services are withheld by race (which has nothing to do with kettling), you're going to have to explain why they're not withheld in the neighborhoods of the black bourgeoisie, and why poor white neighborhoods also have poorer services. Also why its black government officials doing a lot of this withholding, as in detroit.

it's not 1950 anymore. We have black elected officials, black police, black administrators, and you know what? They have the *exact same policies* as the rest of the governing class. They do the *exact same thing*. They're enforcing privatization & austerity & gentrification on the cities *every bit as fast* as the whites are.

i have no idea what 'swamp people' is or what relevance it has to the conversation. i imagine it's some kind of personal slur, though. not sure why you felt you had to resort to that kind of thing.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #81)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:31 AM

147. No it isn't 1950 anymore, it's worse.

Now being one of "those people" or "black" has nothing to do with skin color. Now days most people that have the ability to discriminate do so economically and don't care about skin color.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #147)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:21 PM

239. You may think i said racial discrimination has disappeared, but i didn't.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #239)

Wed May 9, 2012, 04:00 PM

358. No I don't think you said that. In fact I pretty much agree with you 100%.

I believe the discrimination has expanded beyond the bounds of race. But yes racial discrimination does still exist.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #78)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:58 AM

182. Don't you have some similar issues to attend to

closer to home?

I understand that the Aboriginals in your country aren't

terribly happy about their situation either.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #37)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:47 PM

60. The girl sounds like she has some racist demons...

 

... that she needs to deal with.

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Response to TedBronson (Reply #60)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:04 AM

93. And maybe a few of them are teachers or administrators at her school. n/t

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #93)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:27 AM

133. Uh huh...

 

So the black educators in her school system are hard working civil servants toiling tirelessly within a broken and inadequate system...

The white educators are just trying to keep her down as they laugh?


It's not a racial issue and the girl seems determined to make it one. I'd be interested to know about her home life.

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Response to TedBronson (Reply #133)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:57 PM

227. No, the adults who are striking back at her for writing her essay don't deserve

to be called educators.

Those who support her efforts to express her opinions, do.

I couldn't care less about the race of the teachers at her school.

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Response to TedBronson (Reply #133)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:11 PM

271. This might have been plausible IF

she had not been bullied and driven out of school for using what learning she HAS received to form an opinion. The fact that the very staff she was criticizing reacted so horribly tells me that there may be some truth to what she says.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #271)

Tue May 8, 2012, 06:15 PM

282. Again...

 

Not a racial issue....

I was referring to the child's initial essay but the point stands for the actions taken afterwards.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #271)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:18 PM

289. exactly.

The truth hurts and people don't want to face it. They hate looking in the mirror to see the monster, ya know? They like pretending it's all hunky dory and they're not prejudiced, noooooooooooooo - not them. (And maybe some of them aren't, but it seems pretty damn obvious that some of them ARE.)

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #271)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:52 PM

323. yeah, and when glenn beck had her on his show he said they even sent in the teachers' union

 

president, *and* social workers, to intimidate the family.

My, my. And still no lawsuit.


“They sent in social workers and the President of the Union to intimidate this family — even a thirteen year old.”

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/jada-williams-returns-to-glenn-beck-program-to-discuss-freedom-of-speech/

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #323)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:14 PM

327. Lawsuits against school districts- especially poor ones-

aren't always worth the time and money. My sister went through that when a PE teacher broke my niece's ankle- she was advised not to bother with the suit because the likelihood of ever collecting a judgement was close to nil.

So the lack of a lawsuit doesn't tell me much except that they haven't sued.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #327)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:26 PM

328. I've looked all over the internet for some follow-up to this story. I can't find any. It begins

 

and ends in early March, with this (Republican, fundie, free-market) foundation giving jada an award, a Parents United group (supporting education "reforms" like charter schools) holding a rally, and some appearances on the Glenn Beck show. There's one local newscast (about the Parents United rally), and only one remark from anyone with the schools: "We probably didn't handle this in the best way."

Which could mean anything.

That's it, so far as I can tell.

But according to the story being promoted, the girl was harrassed for writing this essay -- not only by her own teacher, but by other teachers at the school, and the school administrator. Supposedly there were conferences about it and social workers and the *President of the Teachers Union* were brought in to "intimidate" the family.

It was so bad that the girl was effectively forced to change schools. And in her new school (apparently more hard-core than her first) she wasn't comfortable and stopped attending.

And that's the last we hear of her.

I don't know about you, but something doesn't ring true here.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #328)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:41 PM

330. In the apology she got

the superintendent did admit that there had been a "reaction" by the adults (teachers). So there was at least some misconduct on the part of the staff, whether or not it was the level of harassment that the girl claims.

If there was disciplinary action, it's probably confidential.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #330)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:54 PM

332. See, I didn't see that *she* got any apology. All I saw was an administrator saying something

 

politic to the paper, but it was phrased so that it didn't really admit anything. "We could have handled this better." That's pretty contentless. He made the statement at the same time the story came out -- not much time lag for any investigation.

I don't see that there was an investigation. I don't see that any teachers were disciplined. I don't see that the school admits that it happened.

All I see being admitted is that there was some kind of problem, and the school could have handled it better. But the school didn't say that the problem ocurred as described by the reports. And most of the reports weren't from the MSM, but from the FDF and affiliated sources.

In the news reports I've seen, it's "alleged" only.

If you want to show me this apology, I'd like to see it.

And since Glenn Beck claimed that the school sent in the president of the teachers' union and social workers to *intimidate* the family, I think more than an apology would be called for. I certainly would call for more than an apology if my child had been harrassed out of her school and if the school had sent in bigger guns to intimidate *me*.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #332)

Wed May 9, 2012, 12:00 AM

333. From the local news:

http://www.whec.com/news/stories/S2521396.shtml?cat=565

"Late Friday afternoon, Superintendent Bolgen Vargas said the entire situation is unfortunate and offered an apology for what she is going through.

Superintendent Vargas said, “We could have responded better. This is a situation that was definitely not handled the best way.”

Vargas said he understands adult reaction, but school is a place where students should be able to explore ideas. When asked what action was being taken, Superintendent Vargas said while he couldn’t go into detail, but that they are addressing the situation."

ETA: I don't know what their contract is like, but I would imagine that any disciplinary action would be confidential unless criminal charges were involved. So if there was any, it might not make the news.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #333)

Wed May 9, 2012, 12:23 AM

334. "an apology for what she is going through." that's the equivalent of "I'm sorry you were offended"

 

"he understands adult reaction...school is a place where students should be able to explore ideas."

again, it's pol-speak. it's phrased in such a way that it *seems* to be addressing the complaint, but there's nothing tangible admitted.

also, as "Bolgen Vargas says they’re looking into claims a middle school student was harassed by teachers because of her essay on Frederick Douglass." -- why is he "apologizing" before he's looked into it?

and they surely didn't have any time to look into it. The very *first* of the story that i saw was a feb 27 "Breaking" story put out by the Frederick Douglass foundation. so this is three days later.

but if that's good enough for the family after their daughter was harrassed by her own teacher and other teachers at the school to the degree that they lowered her grades from As to Bs and she had to change schools, not to mention being intimidated by social workers and the president of the teachers' union, well, who am i to question it.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #334)

Wed May 9, 2012, 03:47 AM

349. None of that merits douting the veracity of their story, HB.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #332)

Wed May 9, 2012, 04:10 AM

352. How many school related issues don't make it to the news?

http://www.finalcall.com/artman/publish/Perspectives_1/article_8788.shtml

This is a classic case of institutional racism, and we're all supposed to throw it under the rug. Ridiculous.

I remember when you (if you are who I think you are) were championing the racist policy LA schools had with regards to rotating in subs in those schools, though.

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Response to TedBronson (Reply #133)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:16 PM

288. How do you know it's not a racial issue?

Are you there? have you been in those classrooms? Have you met these particular teachers? Do you know the circumstances?

You think just maybe this girl has a little bit better idea of what is transpiring in her classes, her school than you do?

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #93)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:56 AM

142. Especially the ones who were sent there against their will

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #93)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:46 AM

175. Now teachers are "racist demons"?

 

Wow.

Yes that's what's really wrong with this country: public school teachers.

Get rid of them and we'd live in a utopia. The poor would be free from the villainous clutches of educators and the rich would be able to send their kids to private schools ensuring that no one ever changes their status.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #175)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:02 PM

230. I read the whole article in the OP and never saw the words "racist demons."

Where are you getting this phrase?

I'm sure there are some good, dedicated teachers at her school. But not the administrators or teachers who acted punitively after she won a prize for her well-written essay.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #230)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:04 PM

232. Comment #60: The girl sounds like she has some racist demons...

 

Response, from you BTW, "And maybe a few of them are teachers or administrators at her school. n/t"

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #232)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:36 PM

243. If they bullied and harassed her because they didn't like her essay

then they would fall into that rough category.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #243)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:38 PM

246. Are you still confused as to where I got that phrase?

 

In your previous comment you didn't seem to understand where it came from. Do you now understand?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #175)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:21 PM

290. Some of them ARE.

Why can't people understand this? Some teachers are great, wonderful, awesome, amazing and I admire and respect every one of them.

But SOME OF them? They well and truly suck. They are a bane on the existence of mankind. They are insult to the profession of teaching.

We should be allowed to critique the bad teachers without being accused of being "teacher haters". They're not all perfect, nor or they all gods. Some of them are merely incompetent. Some of them are evil. Some of them I don't won't anywhere NEAR my child. Or any child, for that matter.

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Response to TedBronson (Reply #60)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:15 PM

287. sounds like she was surrounded by them

doesn't it?

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Response to MadHound (Reply #7)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:12 PM

44. Does it matter? Yes, it does.

 

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Response to MadHound (Reply #7)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:51 PM

86. you missed the point completely

 

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Response to MadHound (Reply #7)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:09 AM

160. their future is getting bought and packed away,

 

they are being mentally beaten and threatened by the "law" that death is a legal option should they dare to seek success, and kept poor so they cannot come and go. I think the analogy is fair.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #7)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:03 PM

284. No, it doesn't

But, now that she has been removed from the school she thought was so horrible, she will be able to compare it with her new school, where she doesn't know anyone, will be isolated, and on her own as she will not have any relationships that she developed with any of the teachers.

I imagine she is in the 8th grade, which is when girls start to really excel in school, and boys start to lag behind. Hopefully, she will receive more attention and encouragemnt for her writing abilities and analysis than she did at the previous school.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #7)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:07 PM

285. Yes. It matters.

If you have to ask, you don't know.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #1)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:12 PM

24. For once, we agree.

There are some things that are simply so absurdly exaggerated that there's no rational discussion possible afterwards. Comparing education, even poor quality education, to slavery is one of them.

That said, regardless of whether or not it's a valid analogy, the school personnel have fucked up hard on this one.

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Response to TheWraith (Reply #24)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:27 PM

47. Education, or lack thereof is just one small part of the issue.

 

It IS, however, the first step in making sure that the only place for the average black person in America is highly akin to slavery, without the responsibilty of stewardship.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #47)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:06 PM

186. Um, MadMonk?

Since you're an Australian national living in Australia, I can't help but wonder how you

became so "expert" on the situation of minorities in America.

Don't you have some very SIMILAR problems with the Aboriginals

in your own country you could claim a bit more expertise on?

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Response to whathehell (Reply #186)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:57 PM

324. Reitterating an earlier reply. Yes we do. And yes we've made...

 

...a pisspoor hand of dealing with those problems. I can even point at examples of arsenic in sugar to go along with your nation's smallpox infested blankets. We're not fucking angels, and I've never claimed we are.

However, we're at least OPENLY acknowledging those problems and ARE trying to directly address them today. In America, your own media, and the many horror stories (and behaviour) here on DU appear to paint a very different story.

Look at how often what should be a no brainer devolves into a back and forth battle of personalities which have almost no connection to the subject originally under discussion.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #324)

Wed May 9, 2012, 11:51 AM

357. Reiterating my earlier reply:

The fact that you're unaware of how OFTEN and intensely race is

"openly" acknowledged and DIRECTLY addressed here and

for an even longer period of time, I suspect, than in Oz, shows me how

skewered one's perspective of an issue can be when one's only

knowledge of a situation comes from distant, indirect sources.

Yes, there's a lot of "horror" stories, in part because there's

simply more "stories" coming out of a country with a population

300 million than a country with roughly 20 million.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #1)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:35 PM

32. I agree. Sounds more like trying to blame someone else for not doing your homework. nt

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Response to MadHound (Reply #1)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:09 PM

71. From an economic standpoint its pretty close imo to what happens and thats regardless of the race of

the teacher or the student.
Wherever you have a alot of poverty you do tend to have a poorly funded school system which also more often then not leads to poorly educated students who then have children who face the same issues and it will continue to happen until the schools are funded properly and enough staff is hired to do the job of teaching.

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Response to cstanleytech (Reply #71)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:53 AM

120. and where you have poverty you're going to have higher levels of problems, for various reasons.

 

partly to do with the economic effects of poverty, partly to do with the psycho-social effects.

William Hogarth (1697-1764), Gin Lane. 1750




High levels of socioeconomic inequality are *bad* for people. Bad for the low, bad for the high, bad for the middle.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #1)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:11 PM

73. Even if it is, the kid is 13 years old, and at least she's thinking and writing.

Maybe the way to deal with this is to address her very real and valid concerns about the quality of education, and to engage her in dialogue. The school administrators are the ones whose actions are over the top.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #1)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:04 AM

92. You disagree with her opinion, but that was an amazing essay for a 13 year old.

She shouldn't have been penalized for her views.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #1)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:24 AM

108. Not over the top at all

and her point is correct, but not for the right reason.

It is very true that dumb people are easily led and easily fooled, and easy to be intimidated. She is right on the mark there. While it is, and has been true that minority schools are worse than "White" schools, the issue is not of skin color, but of funding and decently paid teachers. IOW, once again, it comes down to money. Fund schools like the did in the 50's, pay teachers well, and take steps to make certain they are well trained, up to date, and effective, and, yes, these minorities will be hard to force into economic slavery. Instead, they will become the professionals of tomorrow. This of course is the real threat "white" America is afraid of- well educated minorities gaining political power and positions of respect and leadership.

She spoke the truth to power, and hit a nerve, so she is being retaliated against.. So typical..

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Response to MadHound (Reply #1)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:36 AM

169. Godwin's corollary is a bull shit internet meme.

There are very real events that are comparable to the Nazis (E.G. The genocide of the Armenians or the rise of the fascism in South America)

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Response to MadHound (Reply #1)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:50 AM

178. hmm...

Whenever I see "Sorry, but..." as an opening of a post, I am pretty sure what follows will be offensive.

As a middle school teacher, I can assure you that this student's passionate and thought-provoking analogy is a fair and effective comparison. Look at the debate she's sparked!

Our vaunted system of public education is structured to convince two-thirds to three-quarters of the Hoi Polloi--particularly those of us who are NOT predominantly Caucasian or who cannot 'pass'--that we have average or below average intellects. Can you say "self-fulfilling prophecy"? My students vary in intellectual abilities, but they are ALL in possession of a fully functioning brain. I spend the beginning of my tenure with my amazing students helping them understand that we ALL learn in different ways and at different paces, but we LEARN nevertheless. In fact, I have to help them understand that contemporary timed IQ tests measure alacrity, not ability. When we remove hierarchy from the concept of IQ, amazing things ensue.

I applaud this young student's work. I hope that she will continue to advocate for improving our nation's co-opted system of public education. If the corporatists get their way, our schools will continue to produce factory fodder and service industry drones--slaves, if you will, to the stultifying disaster capitalism that secures the Corporate Meglomaniacs' wealth and hedonism.

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Response to MadHound (Reply #1)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:03 PM

204. It wasn't really a comparison. She didn't say education was like slavery.

She said that the school system's failure produces the same results as the deliberate policy of slaveholders. It's a pretty astute analogy for a thirteen year old.

And btw, Godwin's Law doesn't claim a person loses an argument when they mention Hitler. There are many discussions where Hitler should be brought up. It only states that the longer an argument goes on, the more likely it is that Hitler will come up. And now he has.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:09 PM

2. Bravo Jada

Write the truth

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:10 PM

3. wow. She's an 8th grader?

I'm going to remember that name, because that girl is going places!

I've thought for a long time that the institutionalized racism in schools is helping to keep minorities poor and unempowered. I know a lot of teachers THINK they're not prejudiced (like most people), but sadly - the truth is, most non-minorities harbor feelings that they are unwilling - or even unable - to recognize and admit.

There was study some time ago, small black children were perfoming equally well until about the 3rd grade. The theory was, that's when they stopped being such "cute little things" and became the "black other". (I read it probably 13 yo now so no, don't have reference.) At third grade you began to see an increase in labeling as EMH or BEH, suspensions, etc. (especially for black boys - the incidence increased more rapidly) - this continues throughout school lives.

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Response to mzteris (Reply #3)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:40 PM

54. I went to a school which was 90% black

with a blonde white woman as the teacher.

You try telling her Jamaican husband with dreds down to the backs of his knees and her three mixed-race kids that the reason a lot of black kids don't get good educations in this country is because the white teachers are all racist.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #54)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:02 AM

122. the poster is a vocal supporter of charter schools.

 

privatization and union-busting will fix that "racism" problem, no doubt.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #122)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:52 AM

139. +1

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #122)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:30 PM

193. Thanks. I was wondering where that was in this mix.

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Response to patrice (Reply #193)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:27 PM

293. YOu need to read the full story

as I replied.

You want to really know what the "mix" is? My SON is African American. THAT's where the so-called "mix" is.

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Response to mzteris (Reply #293)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:44 PM

305. You and I probably agree about this story & for me, the last paragraph makes an

important point:

The problems aren't, in every instance, about racism, though I imagine that is an omnipresent element. Much, most?, of the time, it is the individual persons, their traits and temperament, that make the difference in what happens between people. But what happens between people can happen in an environment that to one degree or another supports and facilitates whatever's going on, or not, or make things worse.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #122)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:04 PM

231. If "the poster" is meant to be me,I am ANTI-charter schools/vouchers/etc

and have always been so.

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #231)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:13 PM

235. no, not you.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #122)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:26 PM

292. You don't know what you're talking about

I'm a support of LOCALLY RUN AND OPERATED CHARTER SCHOOLS as they were designed to be run.

Not these conglomerates who are in it to make money

FYI, the teachers that were in my son's charter school ARE UNION. I live in Wisconsin and one of my best friends is the TEACHERS UNION STEWARD - and SHE sent HER son to that same Charter school.

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Response to mzteris (Reply #292)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:55 PM

313. oh, but i do.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #313)

Thu May 10, 2012, 08:32 PM

360. Obviously not.

And you forgot my other evil endorsement of -gasp-homeschooling!

You made a statement that I completely and totally refuted and have for years and that's your response?

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Response to mzteris (Reply #360)

Thu May 10, 2012, 09:03 PM

361. The lady dost protest too much.

 

Her posts precede her.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #361)

Sat May 12, 2012, 06:21 PM

364. Which you must not have actually read

Or you'd know what I'm saying is true.

Show me one post where I express complete support for big Box chain charters. I've never advocated for them. I have however supported and vociferiously defended small locally community designed, run, operated programs.

Charters can be and are excellent alternatives to the traditional public schools. Especially for those without the money to pay for private schools. And no, I'm am not pro voucher; I have never ever said that, either.

You either can't read, have a poor memory, are incapable of doing research, or just have some personal axe to grind. I never pissed in your cornflakes, so not sure what your problem is. I can understand your first remark if you were under the mis-impression I was for AlLL charter schools. But once you'd been corrected, you would either offer a gracious apology, or let the matter drop.

I'm telling you what my position is and has been since I discovered what those big boxes were up to years ago. Please stop spreading lies about me. I consider that to be a gross attack on my character and quite unfair and uncalled for.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #54)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:24 PM

291. wth have I said

that ALL white teachers are racist?

NO WHERE.

She obviously wasn't, now was she?

Hardly a fair comparison, I'd say.

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Response to mzteris (Reply #291)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:01 PM

296. Sorry if there was some misunderstanding

I read your statement that most non-minorities (aka white people) have prejudices that they are unwilling to face and I misinterpreted that as you saying that there is an inherent problem with white people teaching black kids.

This is a heated thread, and I apologize if I misconstrued what you were saying.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:10 PM

4. K&R for this

she's absolutely right and the analogy is IMPORTANT! It doesn't take an outright ban on something to make it inaccessible.

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Response to LadyHawkAZ (Reply #4)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:34 PM

50. Right, just like the Jim Crow laws and poll taxes

It isn't an outright ban, is it?

Just another way to make sure "the races don't mix" by ENSURING educational and economic disparity.
Works just as well if you look at the results.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:13 PM

6. Sorry, but "overcrowded and poorly managed classrooms"

are not equivalent to people being human chattels, slave auctions, families being forcibly torn apart, and punishments, whippings and murders without any fear of consequences.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #6)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:39 PM

35. Society is being dragged back in that direction because of legions of uneducated people.

 

Slavery for the working class, slavery for women, slavery in prison...

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #6)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:07 PM

42. Disproportionate rates of imprissonment. Jasper, Texas. Trayvon Martin.

 

Rodney King.

http://boingboing.net/2012/04/03/black-marine-veteran-68-shot.html



Justice for the black man in America comes DESPITE the community, not from it.

The ONLY thing on your list missing today is the fucking town square auction block. And that's only because under modern capitalism the poor bastards are pretty much forced to sell themselves: On the streets as prostitutes; into the armed forces as cannon fodder; and in fact sold and traded inside the prison labour system.

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Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #42)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:37 AM

129. Every working person in america is forced to sell himself. Not unique to any race, creed or color.

 

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #6)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:07 AM

95. Sorry but that's NOT what she's saying. She's talking about the specific situation

of learning to read. Overcrowded and poorly managed classrooms can interfere with learning to read, as being a slave once did.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #95)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:56 AM

132. that's not all she's saying. She's saying white teachers are deliberately refusing to actually

 

educate black students *because* they're black, just as slaveowners once refused to educate their slaves.


She wrote that her white teachers...are in a "position of power to dictate what I can, cannot, and will learn, only desiring that I may get bored because of the inconsistency and the mismanagement of the classroom."

Instead of truly teaching, most teachers simply "pass out pamphlets and packets" and then expect students to complete them independently, Williams wrote.

As a result, she continued, not much has changed since the time of Douglass, "just different people, different era" and "the same old discrimination still resides in the hearts of the white man."

"What merit is there," she asked, if teachers have knowledge and are "not willing to share because of the color of my skin?"



Glenn Beck loves this story.

“Jada, I’ve been talking about this this week, about freedom of speech, and they’re trying to get people to sit down and be afraid,” Beck said. “If there’s one thing you should get from Frederick Douglass is, her’s a man that refused to be a slave.”

“Don’t you let them bully you, and don’t you give up on the promise of America,” Beck concluded later. “It is always just over the horizon, but it requires each of us to reach for it.”


According to Jada, teachers:

"tooled this profession, they brag about their credentials, they brag about their tenure, so if you have so much experience then find a more productive way to teach the so called ‘unteachable.’”"


I've never heard a teacher brag about their credentials or their so-called tenure.

Personally I think someone's been talking to Jada.

But not a teacher.

And if teachers and administrators bullied her over her essay and forced her to leave school, I wonder where the lawsuit is.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #132)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:16 AM

165. Yeah, this is starting to reek

and how has no one addressed this?

When the white teachers began to pass out pamphlets and packets, they expect us the black students to read the directions, complete it, and hand it in for a grade. The reality of this is that most of my peers cannot read and or comprehend the material that has been provided.

Way to smear your own race... It didn't escape my notice that she relate none of her own specific life experiences -- Hell, she doesn't even mention herself outside of the opening, but there are a whole lotta wide, sweeping generalizations on "white teachers" and "black students"...

And exactly WTF is she saying, because she's all over the place rhetorically...What is her ultimate point?

1. Teachers are unqualified to teach effectively?
2. Teachers know how to teach effectively, but choose not to out of indifference or racism?
3. White teachers can't teach minority students?
4. Students are too dumb to learn?
4a. Are students too dumb to learn because of bad curricula, indifferent teachers or institutional racism?
5. The curriculum set by the state is a jumbled mess and has no practical real-world purposes?

Also, I know this sounds silly, but did she actually read the whole book or just scan it to find a passage she could write about? I just ask because there are much bigger themes in the book, and she chose a rather curious one to latch onto, and her essay doesn't have the first sign that she read or understood the wider narrative...

Another dead giveaway this is probably a RW smear is the GOP meme of "everything bad in education is the fault of those overpaid teachers" while completely ignoring the importance of committed parental involvement...

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #6)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:52 AM

148. This is not a debate over the merits of her essay but by the response of school administrators.

You may disagree with what she wrote, but it is her right to write it.

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Response to Harcourdt Fenton Mud (Reply #148)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:40 PM

247. Remember it's just the FDFNY's side of the "official" story

that she had to transfer just because of that essay...

I think if it was even 1% true, there would be lawsuit attorneys camping out in their driveway

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #6)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:10 PM

188. Correct...I went to an all white school that never had less than 60 plus kids in the class.

I could have had it better, but I would hardly compare my experience to "slavery".

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:19 PM

8. This young woman was harassed, intimidated and bullied by teaching PROFESSIONALS after this...

She was forced to change schools on three occasions after she found similar attention from other 'professionals' at other public schools.

Comments by the Superintendent on the investigation were: "We could have responded better" and "This is a situation that was definitely not handled the best way.”

Unbelievable.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #8)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:02 PM

69. Yup. Even now there are people on the other bullying thread denying this may happen.

 

Or insisting THEIR school would handle things differently.

And I presume that other schools MAY handle stuff like this much better but in my experience, schools are woefully inadequate to bullying.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #8)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:51 AM

159. I'm still trying to find a detailed confirmation of this...

from a non-FDFNY source...Any assistance is appreciated

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #8)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:28 PM

217. exactly! instead of harassing her, why not

discuss the paper and use it as a learning experience for all? Get the parents involved - this could have been a good opportunity for discussion and perhaps change.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:20 PM

9. Those White teachers who taught her how to read and write are being just like slave owners

 

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Response to Taitertots (Reply #9)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:40 PM

36. She may have been home-schooled.

 

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #36)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:44 PM

57. You're probably right

If she's able to craft such an analogy, then her education must be pretty good after all.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #57)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:39 AM

109. Or she's one of the extremely rare "by her own bootstraps" examples...

 

...used by the privileged to argue that extra (or even equal for fucks sake) educational (among other) services are unneccessary.

After all, anyone who fails to climb out of the ghetto on their own merits, demonstrates by example that it's their rightful and deserved place.

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Response to Zalatix (Reply #36)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:31 PM

294. Why do you say that?

The only reason I can think of is that she's thinking critically and writing well.

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Response to Taitertots (Reply #9)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:32 AM

135. Just like those white teachers who taught the Douglas children how to read?

 

Do you really believe all of the education this girl received came from white teachers?

Based on her essay, I'd say she obviously benefited from educational opportunities outside her crowded, mismanaged white teachers' classrooms.

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Response to bupkus (Reply #135)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:39 AM

137. douglass was taught to read by the white wife of his master. and then by white children. and

 

then by keeping at it on his own.


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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #137)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:35 AM

143. Sounds a lot like this 13 year old girl

 

Because she obviously isn't getting her education from "teachers" who pass out materials for kids to complete on their own and call it teaching, and it is even more impressive that she is able to recognize and discern their intent at her age.

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Response to Taitertots (Reply #9)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:14 PM

210. Or she may be like me.

I have no recollection of learning to read, my mother taught me at an early age and by the time I was old enough for school, I pegged their testing by reading at least at an 8th grade level (that was as fas as they went at the time in that grade).

I could write too, though my penmanship still sucks.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:20 PM

10. While this 8th grader wrote a flawed analogy,

she is still correct that she is being denied an education, and is probably right that it is because she is a child of color. I do not expect 8th graders to write fully fleshed-out analogies. This was close enough, though, to be truly alarming. The fact that the school punished her further for pointing out the facts tends to reinforce her point.

Why do we not teach our children? Based on what I see from this student, there is considerable talent there. Why is it not being developed? I can find no plausible excuse for that failure. No excuse at all.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:24 PM

13. Because the Rochester City School District is run by corporate talent and racism that runs deep...

Many, many times this young talent is gone by the wayside due to nothing more than situations in which racist/classist bigotry deliberately overlooks these talented young men and women.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #13)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:35 PM

17. Whatever the reason, this 8th grader is not getting a proper

education. Why that is is a matter of concern. We should all be concerned about this and not settle for the most common explanations of this failure.

We simply should not settle for anything less than educating our children to a level that represents the best they can achieve. I'm not laying blame on any particular aspect of our educational system but on the society itself, that allows such a travesty. Everyone who participates in holding students like this back deserve our contempt. We can do better.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #17)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:53 AM

140. Looks like her education has been excellent so far.

She's definitely learned how to write.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #140)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:01 PM

314. Yes, she did and while I don't like the response this child has received,

it doesn't mean she understands the situation completely.

She's clearly very bright, but a thirteen year old's perspective

is not always "on the money".

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:32 PM

49. The problem of these schools is not new, and I am sorry to see not much more progress has been made

Since I was enraged when I read this Kozol's book, Death At An Early Age. This young lady, despite using out the ultimate card, reflected the spirit of the system she is being schooled in, take a glimpse of the book reviewed here:

September 1967
Death at an Early Age
by Jonathan Kozol


Someday, maybe," Erik Erikson has written, "there will exist a well-informed, well-considered and yet fervent public conviction that the most deadly of all possible sins is the mutilation of a child's spirit..."

It is a commonplace by now to say that the urban school systems of America contain a higher percentage of Negro children each year. More than anywhere else, it is here within these ghetto systems that the mutilation of which Erikson speaks becomes apparent. My own experience took place in Boston, in a segregated fourth-grade classroom. The Boston school system is not perhaps the worst offender, but it provides a clear example of the kind of education being offered the disadvantaged children of many cities. There are, admittedly, in Boston a cluster of unusually discouraging problems, chief among them the school administration's refusal for a great many years to recognize that there was any problem. Only slightly less troubling has been the exceptional virulence of the anti-Negro prejudice, both among teachers and the general public. Yet Boston's problems are not much different from those of other cities, and the solutions here as elsewhere will have to await a change in attitude at all levels of society...

http://www.theatlantic.com/ideastour/education/kozol-full.html

Kozol's work did not change the world as I thought it would in the sixties and seventies, although I'm sure things got better in some places. I've seen the battles for funding for education and control of the minds and hearts of our youth and the wonderful sucesses and failures. In no way do I believe that we should allow the privatization of schools, or fail to support the people to whom our children are their calling in life. And I want to see us fund them.

But this is not what is happening with privatization, it is an apartheid between those who can game the system and wreck it and those who are not wanted by the wealthy. The battle is ongoing.

Kozol has written another book that is more timely and worth reading:

Savage Inequalities: Children in America's Schools

is a book written by Jonathan Kozol in 1991 that discusses the disparities in education between schools of different classes and races. It is based on his observations of various classrooms in the public school systems of East St. Louis, Chicago, New York City, Camden, Cincinnati, and Washington D.C.. His observations take place in both schools with the lowest per capita spending on students and the highest, ranging from just over $3,000 in Camden, New Jersey to a maximum expenditure of up to $15,000 in Great Neck, Long Island.

In his visits to these areas, Kozol illustrates the overcrowded, unsanitary and often understaffed environment that is lacking in basic tools and textbooks for teaching. He cites the large proportions of minorities in the areas with the lowest annual budgets, despite the higher taxation rate on individuals living in poverty within the school district.

Kozol cites various historical cases regarding lawsuits filed against school districts in East Orange, Camden, Irvington and Jersey City in which judges have sided with the children and concerned locals in a given district instead of adhering to state law concerning the taxation and distribution of funding. He additionally goes into detail comparing the current conditions poor, minority children are expected to learn in, and the findings of the historical case Brown v. Board of Education, and Plessy v. Ferguson. He also mentions other such historical cases in which the outcomes have supported what he views to be an unjust system of funds distribution and taxation in Milliken v. Bradley, San Antonio Independent School District v. Rodriguez, and through the overturning of State Supreme Court decisions in both Michigan and Texas by the Supreme Court of the United States...


The rest of the description is at this page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savage_Inequalities

I could post the words of many writers to show this should not be. It's up to us to make sure it ends, or it will end many things we hold dear.



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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:16 PM

77. This is the closest thing I've seen to the truth in this thread.

Her analogy was, and is, certainly flawed. That isn't to say that there are not widespread and pervasive disparities and inequities in the American educational system.

However, the manner in which she placed blame on the "white teachers" directly was misguided. Her target should have been the inequalities of the educational system on a macro level, not micro.

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Response to bayareamike (Reply #77)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:05 AM

94. another poster that doesn't understand what an analogy is

agreeing with the other poster who first admitted they didn't know what an analogy is.

Note: an analogy doesn't not have to have your agreement to be an analogy.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #94)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:24 AM

127. Huh? I definitely know what an analogy is.

And I never claimed that it had to have my agreement. Why are you making a fallacious argument against me?

An analogy is a comparison between two distinct things in order to highlight a similarity. That is precisely what the kid did. Again, not sure what you are trying to prove...thanks for the ad hom attack though...

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Response to bayareamike (Reply #127)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:18 AM

155. everyone criticizing her analogy acts like they have to be the same to be in an analogy

so here you say an analogy is between two distinct things to highlight a similarity --THAT'S WHAT SHE DID.

you just don't think they are similar enough.

hence, you said it's incorrect because you don't think the things *slavery* and *impoverished, deprived underclass* are similar enough to compare. which is BS.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #155)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:58 PM

228. If you took the time to read my post

Last edited Tue May 8, 2012, 08:24 PM - Edit history (2)

you'd see that I was criticizing the TARGET of her analogy. Her analogy is flawed because she compared her teachers to slave owners. In that respect, you're right: I don't think teachers are similar enough to slave owners to be compared. Do you disagree?

As we've established, an analogy requires similarities between two things. Please point out the similarities between teachers and slave owners, if you'd be so kind.

As I pointed out in my original post, I agree that the educational system is deeply flawed and DOES in fact disadvantage and discriminate against the underclass. However, Ms. Williams placed the blame on her "white teachers". In fact, she asserted that the white teachers were not instructing her or helping her learn because of her skin color. She wrote that her teachers "desired" her failure in the classroom in a concerted effort to keep her, a minority student, from becoming educated. Do you truly believe that is the case? Do you really think that teachers want their kids -- specifically black kids -- to fail in the classroom to promote the superiority of white Americans?

Let me reiterate that I understand -- since you've been so keen on repeating this throughout the thread -- that an analogy does not require complete symmetry between two objects. However, her essay made an analogous relationship between teachers and slave masters. Those are NOT analogous. In fact, having read the article that this thread cited and having watched her read her essay, I noticed that the only person mentioning the structural inequities of the system is the author of the news article, not Jada. Jada's critique is aimed directly at the teachers but fails to mention the structure of the educational system itself. This is the failure of her analogy.

There are two BS things going on here: the first is your ad hom attack on me and the second is the promotion of anti-teacher rhetoric -- the same rhetoric coming from radical Republicans like Paul Ryan.

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Response to bayareamike (Reply #228)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:35 PM

303. After having edited my post multiple times,

I wanted to get to the crux of the issue. Her essay does not mention the structural inequalities of the system. She places the blame on racist, white teachers. This is where she goes astray. The only person mentioning the structural inequalities of the system is the author of the linked article.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #10)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:03 AM

91. Wrong. That 8th grader should teach you what an analogy means, because you don't know.

a·nal·o·gy

1.a. Similarity in some respects between things that are otherwise dissimilar.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/analogy

--and she's in 8th grade!

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:21 PM

11. My major concern would be how she was treated by her school

That alone is worthy of investigation

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Response to ProgressiveProfessor (Reply #11)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:25 PM

15. It was investigated.

POORLY.

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Response to Earth_First (Reply #15)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:24 PM

259. it was? do you have a link for that? i've been looking and haven't been able to find any detail

 

on that matter.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #259)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:22 PM

300. Google Jada Williams Rochester NY & you'll get a LOT of links ...n/t

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #300)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:55 PM

312. I already *have,* as i said. I asked for a link to the claim earth first made, because i haven't

 

seen anything about an investigation.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:24 PM

12. I agree with Jada, but must say that I think that this situation might apply to all students due

 

to oversize classes and Education underfunding. It is sad to see students like Jada blown aside and treated in this manner, when they have the guts to stand up and tell it like it is.

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Response to teddy51 (Reply #12)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:51 PM

20. the problem there

Is she is not telling it like it is. She's using a false analogy. I Understand that she is writing about what she sees, but, you need to look at the bigger picture to realize that it's a systemic failure and not an isolated incident.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:24 PM

14. what a crock of bullshit. i know some city district schoolteachers. it's their fault they have kids

who can't read and don't want to learn? i'm sure they'd be surprised to find that they're actively keeping minorities down...

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Response to dionysus (Reply #14)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:30 PM

29. +1 Thanks. n/t

 

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Response to dionysus (Reply #14)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:47 PM

62. You can lead a horse to water, but....

I agree and if I wrote my entire thoughts on this matter, it would probably get unpleasant. I was often bored in school, but it was still MY job to learn, My responsibility NOT to make classroom management impossible. If I failed in my tasks, I was home schooled alright!

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Response to aka-chmeee (Reply #62)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:00 AM

89. i don't blame the kids. i live in the city in question. we're basically talking about children from

the ghetto.

the odds are stacked against them in every way. they come from poverty, they often have poor home lives. it doesn't mean all the parents are all bad either. some are but not all. it's more of a poverty issue.and the city schools are always short on funds.

it's a bad situation all around, but to claim the ills of the city school district are due to the teachers being racist, is foolish.

the little girl who wrote the essay seems qute bright, if not misguided. i hope she realizes the teachers are doing the best they can with little or no resources.

if they were racist they wouldn't be buying school supplies with their own money to give to the students.

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Response to aka-chmeee (Reply #62)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:44 AM

145. I am wondering...

 

When you went home could the people there read and write? Were there drugs and guns in your neighborhood. Where your family members being killed on the street? Where their jobs for young people in your neighborhood?

It is easy to stay focused if the distractions are limited. If one does well in school because they are afraid of what mom or dad might do to them that is one thing. If I am likely to be killed or hurt in my neighborhood. If there is no food at my home and if my family is a mom or dad who is stung out on drugs or alcohol well.... I am not afraid of much at school.

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Response to peace13 (Reply #145)

Tue May 8, 2012, 06:04 PM

281. Can any school teach kids who come from those backgrounds?

To make this not about race, my ginger cousin Jennifer went to Shasta High in Redding. When she graduated, she got accepted to UC Santa Barbara. She graduated, and now she works in an embassy in DC.

My next door neighbor's son Jimmy also went to Shasta High, which he flunked out of.

My cousin comes from a family and a background where going to college is expected. So far, of the five cousins in my family, three have gone to UCs, one did four years in the Coast Guard and is now going to nursing school, and I went to a CSU.

The family next door is a mess. The parents got divorced about 10 years ago and the mom passed away about 5 years ago. The dad is out on "disability," and as far as I can tell he's got the kind of disability that needs constant application of weed and Coors. Jimmy's sister is in 8th grade and can't spell the word "school." They're living next door because the dad's grandmother passed away and his mother inherited the house. They're all wastrels.

Many smart kids graduate from Shasta High, so Shasta High is not the problem.

Now I think that you could send the kids next door to Eton and they'd still be having serious problems, while my cousin could have been dropped into the middle of South Central and still have gotten good grades and kept it together.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #14)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:09 AM

96. It's not their fault, obviously, if they have overcrowded classrooms

and have been provided inappropriate teaching materials.

Whoever made these decisions in the district or state is to blame.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #96)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:12 AM

102. we have had crappy superintendants, and suburbians are pissed about their property taxes

funding the city schools. we have some of the highest property taxes in the nation, yet the city schools are always short on cash. there is a problem, but i don't blame the teachers, they put up with a LOT...

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Response to dionysus (Reply #102)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:20 AM

107. Unfortunately, her teachers and administrators proved her point

by attacking her for her views, rather than discussing them and offering her information to counter them.

They should have explained to her that it wasn't their choice to have crowded classrooms, or to hand out worthless "packets." But instead, they acted punitively --adding evidence to back up her point.

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Response to dionysus (Reply #14)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:18 AM

106. "it is hard to learn because so few there are actually willing to learn"

http://www.fdfny.org/blog/2012/02/17/they-kicked-her-off-the-plantation/

Right from FDFNY, the group exploiting Jada's essay.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:28 PM

16. the race component is only valid if the white kids (if any) are doing well. otherwise

the situation is more a total failure of the school system and its methodology

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Response to msongs (Reply #16)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:48 PM

19. I agree

To use the race card to explain away bad school processes is a flawed argument.

Turning the concept of insufficiently funded and overcrowded school systems into a racial issue does a disservice to the teachers who are trying to work within the limitations they have been given.

The system is broken, but it's not due to race. It's financial pure and simple.

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Response to Flatpicker (Reply #19)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:51 PM

65. It isn't just financial...

 

The US spends more overall and more per capita than virtually any nation in the world.

The system is dragging dead weight students who don't want to learn in a culture that doesn't value practical education.

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Response to TedBronson (Reply #65)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:59 PM

88. Great graphic

 

Thanks I am saving this one.
It's amazing what Finland can achieve considering they spend less than 22% of what the US spends per student.

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Response to TedBronson (Reply #65)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:46 AM

176. id imagine

our larger population has something to do with the our costs being higher than everyone else.

just like when people complain that thered be longer lines if we had single payer health care.. its true that wait times would occur (even tho they already do)... but only because more people would be able to visit a Dr.(which isnt a bad thing if you ask me )

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Response to iamthebandfanman (Reply #176)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:02 PM

203. PER child

Spending per school-aged child.

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Response to TedBronson (Reply #65)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:49 PM

224. That's awesome

Thanks.

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Response to Flatpicker (Reply #19)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:09 AM

97. Yes, a white person should decide when a black person can consider something racism :sarcasm:

because when white people are called racists, it's not "racism", it's that the black person used the ------RACE CARD.

i don't come here to read that ignorance.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #97)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:45 AM

114. I don't think

you read my post correctly. Otherwise you would have understood that i said that the school issues are something beyond simple race issues.
There is a problem here that transcends race. Using race as a scapegoat cheapens the larger problems that the school system has.
ignorance would be claiming that the problem only exists in minority populated schools.

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Response to Flatpicker (Reply #114)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:40 PM

222. Thank you for the sanity break. n/t

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #97)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:04 PM

205. Depending upon the particular circumstances, the converse of that statement is possibly relevant too

i.e. not everyone who points out that race may not be the determining factor is a racist, IOW, not all/any Blacks should decide when all/any "White" person can/must consider something racism.

All of which reveals, not very surprisingly, that it depends, so it is necessary for individuals, whatever their race, to do their own empirical learning/understanding and own that themselves, rather than assume that it is true universally or even in the majority and then punish those who do not agree.


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Response to CreekDog (Reply #97)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:09 PM

209. + 1

The problem is much more complex than "financial pure and simple."

I wonder why this young woman's teachers didn't respond by viewing her essay (and her perceptions) as a teachable moment. Why didn't they take this opportunity to open a discussion about our crumbling system of public education, co-opted these past sixty years by the Corporate Megalomaniacs who've usurped our media, our politics, and our global economy?

Might it be because most of her teachers have been educated in the same co-opted system, with its barely disguised racism and faux patriotism?

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Response to msongs (Reply #16)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:27 PM

192. Agreed. And though there may, ONLY may, be similarities in the respective failures of more or less

different groups, there are also differences in their failures.

And, technically, that's degrees of similarities and degrees of differences.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:45 PM

18. Rochester, New York has lost it's corporate sponsor and no longer has a reason to

preform. No more get and go.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 08:53 PM

21. It's a very well written essay. I commend her.

But until she's shackled, beaten and sold at auction she's being a bit overdramatic with the slavery comparison.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #21)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:12 AM

101. She said the result was a lot alike

and it is.

apparently i missed the lesson when an analogy had to be 100% like something else, apparently invented by people in this thread.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #101)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:55 AM

141. And your expertise is what exactly?

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #141)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:15 AM

153. since when does one need to be an expert to know what an analogy can be?

i'm pro teacher, pro teacher union, pro public education...any agenda the publication or blogger might have i oppose.

but the 13 year old has a point and it's not nullified or invalid because of the people publicizing it.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #153)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:36 AM

156. And I say she's stretching it

Are there problems in our schools? Yes. But her analogy is false because kids aren't bought and sold, shackled or forced to work like slaves.

It's also obvious she's been well educated (thus negating her claim) because she's learned to write very well.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #156)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:44 AM

157. again, where does an analogy have to be among things that are completely the same?

nowhere.

you are wrong. you are projecting a definition that an analogy is false unless you agree with it.

you say she is "stretching" it, okay, sure, she may be, but then you say the analogy is false. well, which is it? analogies often compare dissimilar or different things.

i think your criticism is more flawed than her analogy and i expect more from you than i do from her. that said, i think her analogy is an interesting one with some valid comparisons.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #157)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:39 AM

170. I'm going to agree to disagree with you

And just leave it at that.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #170)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:39 PM

197. Your definition of false analogy would apply to saying that Jews in camps were treated like slaves

because there was no buying and selling of them.

you went too far when you said *false* analogy.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #156)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:55 AM

180. Sounds more specifically like race-based slavery in the U.S.

Not all slavery was like that around the world. And she'd be better credited if she mentioned it, but you know. If she's getting her education from pamplents, I can see her trouble to better explain her point.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #21)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:00 PM

229. It is an analogy

 

and yes, I am a historian by training. She put her finger on something real, a STRUCTURAL PROBLEM with education, and the fact that we have a high functional illiteracy rates among the poor.

The group that supports this is right wing as they come... like the Lincoln club, but she is right in identifying the STRUCTURAL problem.

I do not blame most teachers for it, or the unions... but she identified a very structural problem, that leads to a result where the poor, not just minorities, cannot read and write, and can and ARE controlled.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #229)

Tue May 8, 2012, 06:00 PM

280. Where are you getting the impression anyone can't read or write?

The US literacy rate and test score data prove that the vast majority of our kids - from all socioeconomic groups - are learning to read and write.

Speaking of talking points from far right sources!!

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #280)

Wed May 9, 2012, 01:01 AM

339. Look up functional illiteracy

 

I am sure you can...not a RW talking point either. But knowing how to read and write, by that we are at 99%

Understanding that material is not that high among certain sectors of the population.

That is the structural problem.

Oh and yes, I have met people who can read and write, but can't comprehend moderately complex material. That is what functional means. The statistics for this are out there, I invite you, no urge you, to look them up.

There are several sources for this by the way.

So you know, they range from heritage, pass the Benadryl for the allergic hives, to the right wing hacks at UNESCO, passing through the Dept of labor.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #339)

Wed May 9, 2012, 08:31 AM

355. That's not the inability to read or write

You don't know what you're talking about.

And you're being insulting.

Happy Teacher Appreciation Day.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #355)

Wed May 9, 2012, 11:30 AM

356. Not more insulting than you

 

And that is what I mean by structural.

Imagine this, I even mentioned it in my first response to you...here...

and yes, I am a historian by training. She put her finger on something real, a STRUCTURAL PROBLEM with education, and the fact that we have a high functional illiteracy rates among the poor.

The group that supports this is right wing as they come... like the Lincoln club, but she is right in identifying the STRUCTURAL problem.

I do not blame most teachers for it, or the unions... but she identified a very structural problem, that leads to a result where the poor, not just minorities, cannot read and write, and can and ARE controlled.




Happy teachers days.

And yes the kid, you may say stuck clock and all, got it right.

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Response to proud2BlibKansan (Reply #21)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:39 PM

277. As a trained historian, I would have to agree!

Suffice it to say, overdramatic is an understatement, yup.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:02 PM

22. What a lost opportunity!!

Jada's essay had the potential to open up a discussion.

Do you agree? Why?

Do you disagree? Why?

Was it over the top? Why?

Was it accurate? Why?

Pity.

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Response to blaze (Reply #22)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:35 PM

196. I've brought up what I think are legit, decent questions

no one has touched them, though...

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Response to blaze (Reply #22)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:58 PM

202. Agree completely.

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Response to blaze (Reply #22)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:34 PM

219. yep - that's what I was thinking too

an opportunity to really look at education in their school and possibly change things for the better. The 'adult' teachers acted less mature than their students.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:06 PM

23. If you were fed poison, instead of medicine

 

If you were fed garbage, instead of healthy food

If you were taught to fear and loathe school

You would see that it is a form of slavery. It's not like children have a choice: to school or not to school. It takes power and money to get a basic education these days, or a private tutor.

The schools are functioning as prisons, when they cannot manage to be daycare centers. That's slavery in my book.
For a child, kept in the dark, denied the basics of existence: knowledge and skills; no freedom to leave, the harassment. If that isn't slavery, it's too close for comfort.

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Response to Demeter (Reply #23)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:02 PM

68. Do you really believe that?

I'm taking a Spanish class now at the local JC and there are 4 kids in my class who are concurrently attending the local public high school.

They're smart, polite, and educated.

I don't get the impression at all that any of them are scions of wealth and privilege, they're just motivated about learning.

I think the real problem with the public schools is that you can't educate kids who aren't motivated to learn, and that, unfortunately, is a LOT of kids.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #68)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:10 PM

72. I went to Detroit public schools

 

I lived it and saw it up close and personal. And that was before it got really bad.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #68)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:58 AM

150. Not just those who "aren't motivated to learn", but also about what they ARE motivated to do,

which, in a significant minority of instances, IS to manipulate/game their entire social context. And, given who/what the rest of us/it is, (and despite that fact that in at least some cases their academic skills may even be kind of low) they are intuitive masters at using others.

With the caveat that there are different kinds of power so power positions shift and anyone in any power position bears the majority (by this or that margin) of the responsibility for what's happening - there's blame enough to go around for everyone. However, in the case of learning in particular, learning CAN'T be done TO you (no amount of power makes it happen), you must do it yourself, and the first step is to begin by admitting one's own errors and that would include the error of expecting others to make it happen. That goes for both teachers and students, with the student's degree of responsibility progressing with their maturity.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:12 PM

25. Can she (or any student, black or white)

be sold? Can the female students in the school be raped until they become pregnant and produce more students? Will she and all of her offspring be born and die as students?

Is her family in danger of being split up and sold because she' s a student? Can the school beat her because she's a student? Is she expected to provide labor for the benefit of no one but the school district?

If not, the analogy is a poor one.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:18 PM

26. This young lady is a very smart, observant and

literate. Instead of rebuke - the head and teachers should have sat down with her and after commending her - asked her how she could help them reach others.

Good luck young lady - you are a fresh of breath air and to be highly commended on your writing skills.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:20 PM

27. I think she's over-the-top

 

and that her parents may have had a hand in this viewpoint (where else would she get such ideas at her age?), but in any case, I do agree somewhat with her.

I am studying for my teaching license. It's insufferable with this diversity training. I am convinced that it is not doing a lick of good, either. I have been present in classrooms with new teachers who demonstrated appalling attitudes towards students. One White teacher chatised (and mocked) her Black student for using "Ebonics" (African-American Vernacular English or AAVE). The other dissed a student's mother for not buying her glue from the dollar store (the kid was in first grade, for Pete's sake!).

It's not enough to teach White and/or middle-class students how to deal with urban youth. We need teachers who look like their students, not simply books and other materials which resemble them!

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:21 PM

28. Oh, yes, blame the teachers.

It is of course the teachers who set the curriculum and policies. ... Oh, it's not? I know a number of white people who teach, or have taught, in minority school districts. I can't think of a single case with one of these people where they've gone to school to get a teaching degree only so they could get a thankless, low-paying, high-stress job just for the sake of keeping minorities uneducated. Whoever put these thoughts into this girl's head (or helped put them there - someone got her a library card, taught HER good reading skills, etc.) was correct about the state of education being a problem, but wrong about blaming teachers for it.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #28)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:35 PM

31. +1. But it's the massa's narrative:

 

Teachers' fault.

Better yet... the *unionized* teachers' fault.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #31)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:43 PM

82. And the master's narrative is showing up on this thread too. From posters that...ummm...

 

use masters' narratives fairly often on other topics as well.

They're outraged, outraged I tell you.

It's kind of like when jeb bush and a bunch of similar folk got together to proclaim that educational inequality was "the civil rights issue of our time." Because we all know the bush family is so down with the people, civil rights and all that. They really *care* about black ghetto kids and they want to send them to charter schools because they care so gosh-darn much. uh-huh, uh-huh.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #82)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:56 AM

121. And 76 recs so far. It's the *teachers'* fault that the classrooms are overcrowded...

 

.... and the curriculum sucks. Despite the fact that we've been jumping up and down *screaming* for the last 20 years that the classrooms are overcrowded and the curriculum ( WHICH WE DO NOT WRITE!!!) sucks.

There an excuse for the kid to believe that: she's friggin' 13.

But what the F is wrong with nominally progressive *adults* who are so easily manipulated by the primitive machinations of an ultra RW website?

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #121)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:08 AM

123. a number of charter school supporters on this thread. privatization is now a progressive policy,

 

since our democratic president supports it.

funny thing, the republican president supported it too.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #82)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:15 AM

125. +1000

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #28)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:46 PM

38. +1

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #28)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:37 PM

52. Slave owners did what they did for their own personal benefit

 

I fail to see how these teachers are benefiting from intentionally keeping their students ignorant (using this girls argument).

She also chose to blame the teachers for being white instead of maybe I dunno, blaming blacks for not being interested in going in to teaching?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #52)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:47 PM

83. They just enjoy keeping black kids down because all white people are racists. They probably get

 

secret bonuses for every black kid they fail.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #83)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:16 AM

164. Ah a bounty system

 

I like it. Merit based so you don't have veteran teachers skating by and not failing black kids.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:31 PM

30. Just fyi, and for what it's worth, the 'Frederick Douglass Foundation of New York' is a Republican

 

group, this is the story as they report it, according to the OP. They are highly conservative, anti-equality, right wing to the core.
http://www.fdfny.org/aboutus.html

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #30)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:39 PM

34. BNW: you've done it again. +1,+1, +1, +1.

 

I'm tellin' ya... scratch the surface and you will find... well, all sorts of interesting stuff.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #34)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:47 PM

39. The actual website linked claims they are 'left and right' and suggest one could call them a new

 

Party, while the Foundation they are promoting is full tilt right wing. They use Douglass as a calling card/facade to offer cover to what they are really saying and doing. This is a common tactic, to invoke names and images as a mask for the actual message.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #39)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:50 PM

85. there sure is a lot of that these days. all the types who stood 4-square against the civil rights

 

movement back in the day are now supposedly king's heirs.

fucking liars.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #30)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:48 PM

84. thank you.

 

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #30)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:10 AM

98. It shouldn't matter who sponsered the essay series.

This is the story "as they report it" but anyone could actually read the essay.

The fact that she was brave enough to take it straight to them and call them out makes it far bigger of her.



Fact is Republican groups like FDFNY want to embarrass and ridicule people with disadvantages, the fact that she stood up, told them as it is, and they were forced to publish it (because it was a winning essay) is delicious.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #98)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:48 AM

158. I had to bleach my brain after seeing that site

They're just a little too giddy and self-congratulatory over there with their "outspoken girl gets kicked off the librul plantation" -storyline...

she's looking more and more like an unwitting pawn

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #98)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:31 PM

194. The fact is you posted the story as told by the right wing. Did you post her essay in the OP?

 

No. You posted the view of others about her work. The fact that the framing used by those others is not her own should matter. The framing in the OP is from FDFNY, not from the young lady. They are not embarrassed. They are saying 'this proves public schools need closing'. Which is not what Jada wrote.
I tend to agree with Jada, and I've been to her town I know how the schools are. I do not however agree with the group that is attempting to co-opt her work to serve their own agenda.
I think posting her speech without the spin would rock. That is not what this OP did. It offered the view of the Republican FDNY foundation. Openly Republican. To listen to Jada, there is no need to listen to the right opine on Jada.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #194)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:23 PM

316. That is factually untrue, I did not post the story as told by the right wing. I posted the essay...

...and her reading it. You must have me confused with someone else. But that is par for the course around here.

They are saying, unfairly, that "this proves teachers shouldn't get pensions" and the "teacher tenure system needs changing."

Of course they would say that, but they neglect to point out how classroom sizes have become larger thus making teachers' jobs more difficult.

Jada pointed out classroom size herself.

Then you have people here parroting the bullshit "the kids don't want to learn" meme, which I did post an FDFNY link where they say the same thing, literally. It's disgusting.

The young woman is being exploited, and then bashed for not having her own ideas, it's ridiculous.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #98)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:44 PM

223. it's certainly instructive (and amusing/infuriating) seeing them contort to co-opt her work

From their story about the reaction to her essay:

The truth is, the teachers do indeed have a small reason to feel offended, but not as much of one as they think. Miss Williams goes to a school where it is hard to learn because so few there are actually willing to learn. Classes are indeed hard to manage, and the teachers can claim that as an excuse. These are the children that have come from several generations of minorities who’ve been taught by the Democrat Party in America that America is racist and it is the white Republican that has been trying to keep them down. In other words, they’re taught that the Democrat Party will take care of them with benefits if only they will continue to vote for them. The Democrats will take care of them so well that they won’t even need to know how to read.


Sure, because that was the point of the essay

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Response to fishwax (Reply #223)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:36 PM

244. You want to really have a laugh?

Imagine the RW reaction of a little home video of President Obama reading that essay as an 8th grader

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #244)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:10 PM

255. lol

great point!

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Response to fishwax (Reply #223)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:26 PM

317. I read their bullshit tenure / pension bashing which isn't the reason for this. It's class size.

I agree it's hilarious how they are twisting it, and if you go to Jada's YouTube page most people aren't blaming the teachers (though I think reform could be done, since I believe schools are businesses these days, it's not really the teachers fault). Most people on Jada's YouTube page are completely eviscerating the right wing anti-schooling meme.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #30)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:06 AM

116. Which leads to another question... Did this girl "really" write that paper?

or did she have a little help?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #30)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:16 AM

126. Thank you. nt.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:38 PM

33. We are all slaves to debt.....

 

...and many are just now discovering this for the first time, to their horror. Once they do and if they complain about it, the other slaves try to hush them up or worse, beat them back into submission hoping that ''The Massa'' (government) didn't notice all the commotion. Hoping ''The Massa'' continues to believe that all his slaves are just so, so happy here on the Great Plantation, and that he won't raise our interest rates or charge us more fees for using our own money.

And if all goes well later on we get a letter announcing to us that we're getting a [font color=green]Stimulus Check[/font] from ''The Massa'' which we promptly use to pay our debts. Of course.

Or, we get a letter telling us that we're being ''rewarded'' and that our credit limit has been raised because.... well because ''we earned it!'' When in fact, it's just another set of chains. Longer and more copious than ever.

This wonderfully bright girl has embarrassed her ''teachers'' by exposing them to everyone else for what they truly are: Cog-makers for THE MACHINE.

- Congratulations dear. Keep on looking for, finding and telling the truth. No matter who you piss-off. That's what I do......

K&R


[center][/center]


http://www.usdebtclock.org/

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #33)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:42 AM

131. Hate to tell you, but 99% of working people are cog-makers for the machine as well. One way

 

or another, we're all serving the machine, even if we're so naive to think otherwise.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #131)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:01 PM

269. Never said we weren't....

 

...just that she exposed the teacher's role in this elaborate deception. Recognizing it and acknowledging it is the first step in freeing oneself of it. I'm not trying to blame anyone. Almost all of us were all taught to believe in the same shit, from day one.

- What we do after we learn that's it's all ONE BIG LIE, is up to each of us individually.......

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #269)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:13 PM

272. except that her explanation is the racism of white teachers as a whole, and her allies are groups

 

that are using that narrative to privatize schools.

so not sure how it constitutes a blow against the empire.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #272)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:46 PM

310. I understand.....

 



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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #310)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:54 PM

311. ooooooooh.

 

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Response to DeSwiss (Reply #33)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:26 PM

214. + a gazillion million!

AND, more of us (the Great Hoi Polloi) are waking up to this fact. #Occupy gives me much hope that we can break the bonds of this economic enslavement.

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Response to chervilant (Reply #214)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:06 PM

270. Exactly.

 

The controllers and their brain-dead minions are but a speck dirt compared to the overwhelming mass that is humanity on this planet. It is they who must be careful not to piss us off.

- We will OCCUPY it all.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:52 PM

40. Clearly she's touched a raw nerve......


........ that's apparent from this thread.

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Response to marmar (Reply #40)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:20 PM

46. But just as clearly

Until it gets to the point of slavery and its worst excesses, nobody's supposed to complain or notice the path we've got our children (everybody believes they're the future . . . someday) on, because it's just too darned soon. Until it isn't. Then it will be too late to say anything. But this young woman is just too shrill.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #46)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:28 PM

216. Shrill...

Yeppers. She's just being uppity. Move along, non-racists, nothing to upset your precious apple carts.

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Response to marmar (Reply #40)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:38 PM

53. If she wrote an essay that claimed public schools are no different from the holocaust . . .

 

it would get a lot of responses.

Doesn't make it a valid analogy though.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 09:53 PM

41. The comparison may be over the top

But the child has a valid point.

While I am not a member of a minority, I agree with a lot of what she had to say and can see how she might come to that conclusion. Even in rural, very white communities (such as the one I grew up in) there are similar issues with the educational system. I come from a family of many teachers and will most likely be marrying a teacher next year, so don't mistake me and think that I do not like them. It is, in most cases, the administration I dislike. The policies put in place by the higher ranking education officials - I do not think education should require such politics or political officers.

Consider how many text books originate in Texas and are more than a little slanted regarding what information is available - what true education experience you may gain from reading and discussing only the material therein. Yet teachers are screwed either way because they are unfortunately required to teach to the test - if the students fail, the teachers are held accountable, similar if they pass. It has become extraordinarily difficult to inspire creative thought, or to experiment with a creative learning process. I know a few teachers who, having gone far above and beyond the call of duty, work far past exhaustion to teach to the test and STILL manage to inspire creative thought and really help children learn to think. Sadly, I feel they are a minority within the public education system.

Worthy of concern is the fact that education is a federal mandate (it is required by law that children attend some school or other until a certain age). Whether public or private... or even home schooled. Most of us, being too poor to afford private tuition or to home school our children, are forced to rely on public education. When it comes to that, we are entirely at the mercy of those who make the rules. No child left behind - which is leaving the vast majority of our children behind, is only one example.

Frankly I feel that a lot more of the educational process should be left to the independent discretion of individual teachers. I think this might solve a lot of the problems the child is talking about.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:16 PM

45. Video!

 



And the article from the Frederick Douglass Foundation of New York:
http://www.fdfny.org/blog/2012/03/20/jada-williams-essay-and-video/

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:30 PM

48. If those are direct quotations from her essay, she seems to be learning very well,

thank you. She doesn't seem to lack much of anything she needs to succeed in school: good grammar, the ability to think independently, the capacity to form and communicate her own ideas.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #48)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:45 PM

59. Oh, I doubt that she's communicating her own ideas.

I think she's parroting right-wing talking points that others have taught her. Notice who's hosting this stuff... it's the website for an unabashed right-wing love-fest organization.

Observe:
http://www.fdfny.org/blog/category/2012-presidential-race/barack-hussein-obama/

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #59)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:11 AM

99. Oh wow. This young woman isn't "communicating her own ideas."

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #99)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:39 AM

171. it's not unheard of...

Some grade-school kid wrote a flowing essay outlining why we needed to invade Iraq immediately (full of PNAC talking points), and he was a RW cause celebre for 15 seconds...

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #99)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:35 PM

195. This OP could have been Jada speaking her own writing. Instead, it is a link to Republicans talking

 

about her writing and a huge photo of Fredrick Douglass. This OP is not communicating her own ideas, it is communicating the spin on her ideas offered by a Republican outfit.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #195)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:36 PM

220. Here's the actual essay:

Naturally, it reads much better in little snippets than as a whole...Even for 8th grade, it's kind of messy



Jada Williams

December 30, 2011 English

Expressions from the Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas

During my Christmas break I had the opportunity to read the Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglas.

The Rochester City School District supplied us with this novel to read and expected me to expound on what I read and how it made me feel, as I myself being an African American and an eighth grader in the Rochester City learning institute.

Before, I began to read this novel, I had heard about it prior from a few older people that have read it and raved about it. I myself experienced it differently; I had some mixed emotions towards it.

When reading the novel my first impression was “what am I reading”? The content of the narrative was far more advanced for me. I found myself getting a dictionary/thesaurus to look up words I have never seen before in my life. On the other hand I was appreciative because it helped to expand my vocabulary. So with that I am grateful.

After, being able to cross-reference the words unknown to me I was able to read through the novel again with a clearer understanding.

That’s when it all sank in. So then I began to feel very angry to read such material that was brutal and degrading to African Americans.

Furthermore, I myself began to question,” as to why the Rochester City School District would supply us with a novel that would evoke such emotions?” I, also began to question,” what were the District motives and the intent behind us reading about history that doesn’t compliment the white race and their behaviors at all; what would come about of this?”

Would they even consider my thoughts and my opinions? So I’m very curious to see what the turn out will be.

The one passage I would like to focus on was written on page 20, where it quoted Mr. Auld’s opinions towards black and education, and I quote:

“Very soon after I went to live with Mr. and Mrs. Auld, she very kindly commenced to teach me the A, B, C. After I learned this, she assisted me in learning to spell words of three or four letters.

Just at this point of my progress, Mr. Auld found out what was going on, and at once forbade Mrs. Auld to instruct me further, telling her, among other things, that it was unlawful, as well as unsafe, to teach a slave to read. To use his own words, further, he said, if you give a nigger an inch, he will take an ell. A nigger should know nothing but to obey his master-to do as he is told to do. Learning will spoil the best nigger in the world.

Now,” said he, “if you teach that nigger (speaking of myself) how to read, there will be no keeping him. It will forever unfit him to be a slave. He would at once become unmanageable, and of no value to his master.

As to himself, it could do him no good, but a great deal of harm. It would make him discontented and unhappy.” (Skipping down)

“I now understood what had been to me a most perplexing difficulty- to wit, the white man’s power to enslave the black man. It was a grand achievement, and I prized it highly. From that moment, I understood the pathway from slavery to freedom,”

My thoughts: This type of thinking is somewhat still prevalent in our society today.

Most white teachers that I have come into contact with, over the last several years of my life, has failed to instruct us even today. The teachers are not as vocal about us not learning how it has been described in this narrative; but their actions speaks volumes.

When I myself sit in crowded classrooms and no real concrete instruction is taking place. It makes that saying “history does repeat itself” all the more true.

For white teachers to be able to be in a position of power to dictate what I can, cannot and will learn, only desiring that I may get bored because of the inconsistency and the mis-management of the classroom and remain illiterate and ignorant; or better yet distracted because some children decide to misbehave because they don’t understand, and ashamed to ask for help.

The teacher recognizing all of these things and still not addressing the matter at hand, so much time has been wasted- then the bell rings and on to the next class, same drama different teacher, different class. When do we get off of this roller coaster?

When the white teachers began to pass out pamphlets and packets, they expect us the black students to read the directions, complete it, and hand it in for a grade. The reality of this is that most of my peers cannot read and or comprehend the material that has been provided.

So, I feel like not much has changed, just different people, different era, the same old discrimination still resides in the hearts of the white man.

In closing, my suggestions to my peers, people of color, and my generation to try achieve what has been established by the African Americans and Abolitionists that paved the way for us to receive what’s rightfully yours. Blood, sweat, and tears have been shed for us to obtain any goals, which we may set for ourselves.

Never being afraid to excel and achieve, because our ancestors have been bound for so, so, so, so, so long. We are free to learn, and my advice to my peers, people of color, and my generation- start making these white teachers accountable for instructing you. They chose this profession, they brag about their credentials; they brag about their tenure, so if you have so much experience, then find a more productive way to teach the so-called “unteachable”.

They contain this document that states they have all this knowledge to teach, so show me what you know, teach me your ways. What merit is there, if you contain all this knowledge and not willing to share because of the color of my skin.

To all of our surprise, we all have the same warm, red blood running through our veins, regardless of what race I may be. If you don’t believe me, then poke me and poke a white man and you will see.

To my peers, people of color, and my generation, start asking questions, start doing the research, get involved. A grand price was paid in order for us to be where we are today; but in my mind we should be a lot further, so again I encourage the white teachers to instruct and I encourage my people to not just be a student, but become a learner.

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #220)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:20 PM

256. Thanks for posting it, I already read it when the OP posted a sermon about it. Go to the source I sa

 

nt

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #220)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:13 PM

297. I read this essay very differently than the OP frames it

"For white teachers to be able to be in a position of power to dictate what I can, cannot and will learn, only desiring that I may get bored because of the inconsistency and the mis-management of the classroom and remain illiterate and ignorant; or better yet distracted because some children decide to misbehave because they don’t understand, and ashamed to ask for help.

The teacher recognizing all of these things and still not addressing the matter at hand, so much time has been wasted- then the bell rings and on to the next class, same drama different teacher, different class. When do we get off of this roller coaster?"

It's interesting to me that she's almost as critical towards her classmates as she is towards the teachers, and a substantial chunk of the criticism towards her white teachers is for not maintaining classroom discipline.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #195)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:31 PM

319. I'm not defending the OP. I did not post FDF's crap. I posted the essay in #98. I'm defending Jada.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:45 PM

58. I am about to step in hit, but I will expand her analogy

 

from just minorities to also poor whites.

She has a point, even if it makes us rather not happy and comfortable.

We have a systematic problem with this... and literacy is not high, for a reason.

I would be proud to have her as my student... and i hope she gets a chance to do revolutionary work and go back and teach in her community, and I mean TEACH.

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #58)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:52 PM

66. Would you like her to teach the principles of The Frederick Douglass Foundation of New York?

I can't believe so many people on DU have fallen for this unabashed right-wing tripe.

Enjoy:
http://www.fdfny.org/

"The Core Pillars of the Foundation
Devoted Christians - Proud Americans - Active Republicans"

Yay!! For right-wing hate sites promoted on DU!!!

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #66)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:22 PM

79. Damn you are jumping to Conclussions

 

Being right on this, does not mean she should be teaching from any RW tripe. But have you looked at recent adult literacy rates among poor Americans regardless of melanin content?

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Response to nadinbrzezinski (Reply #79)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:56 PM

87. The "Americans are stupid and illiterate" meme comes from the same sources.

 

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #66)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:13 AM

103. The FDFNY is exploiting her, no doubt, but her message is a good message.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #103)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:17 AM

134. I think it's 50/50.

It's the stopped clock that's right twice a day. Yes, something is wrong with education in the US, but it's not the fault of the teachers, and especially not the fault of their ethnicity.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #134)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:43 PM

198. No it is structural

 

which is the point of the essay.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #103)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:25 PM

260. I ask, why is her good message in need of a frame from some Republicans?

 

Why is Jada not allowed her own words without the annotations from the right? It was fully possible to post her text or the You Tube of her reading it, without the 'Frederick Douglass Foundation' crap.
It is exploiting her a second time to present them as if she was them. Her essay could have been posted on it's own without FDNY or DKNY or any other set of initials....

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #260)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:20 PM

315. I didn't post FDF's crap. I read the essay, then watched her perform it.

Unfortunately the essay itself is on their website, as well as the video is on their YouTube channel.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #66)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:37 PM

245. No I wouldn't, but I'm judging what she wrote, which is what I thought the OP was about

in and of itself, her point about disparate treatment, lack of proper education leading to lack of empowerment has some validity.

this is where things get messy:

when you look at race, class, poverty, inequities, you will have to tolerate ambiguity sometimes.

so i read the essay and i don't see criticism of teachers but of the circumstances of the a system that overcrowds, underfunds, overtests and blames teachers for the poverty of their students which are the fault of society --not the schoolteacher who is probably doing more to change those inequities than many.

and i don't have to give any quarter to some right wing education association to see that her point has some validity --and to accept that, hey, she's 13, this is how the world looks to her in some respects.

so i took the essay's excerpts at face value, and the core idea that the lack of a proper education can lead to a population without power or the means to get it, that in this modern age, has some relationship to the lack of power slaves had in the society of their time.

this comparison is what it is. unless they aren't her words and her experiences aren't her experiences or observations, then there is something to them. and i'm not going to blame some 40k-65k/year inner city teacher for those problems when we have decades of other things that brought discrimination and poverty to her world and it's the latter i want to see fixed.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #245)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:06 PM

253. You agree and have sympathy with these statements?

'She wrote that her white teachers ... are in a "position of power to dictate what I can, cannot, and will learn, only desiring that I may get bored because of the inconsistency and the mismanagement of the classroom."'

Not her non-white teachers? You really think that white teachers desire that their students get bored and not learn? That's some tricky conspiracy shit. Here I thought these people sacrificed to be public servants, but I guess I was wrong. All the time, they'd have an underground racist agenda.

"the same old discrimination still resides in the hearts of the white man."
REALLY!?! I think my white uncle who retired after decades in the Chicago public school system would have some words to say about that... oh, but I forgot, through decades of killing himself on a low wage teaching in a predominately black inner-city school, nervous breakdowns, and a destroyed marriage (none of which stopped his enthusiasm for helping children learn) he really had a secret agenda to disenfranchise black students because of the discrimination that resides in his heart. Yeah, I guess he was basically the same as a slave owner who didn't want his slaves to know how to read. Tricky, him.

'Williams called for her fellow students to "start making these white teachers accountable for instructing you" and challenged teachers to do their jobs.'
Yep, it's the teachers who set the curriculum and determine what they teach...

'"What merit is there," she asked, if teachers have knowledge and are "not willing to share because of the color of my skin?"'
Yes, of course, they just don't teach the non-white kids. Public school teachers have secret rooms where they take the white kids and give them the real instruction - my ex-girlfriend who's a teacher at a predominately hispanic Chicago public school told me about it.

All this is is a violent screed against public education and unionized teachers. It disgusts me that there would be not only sympathy, but support for this kind of right-wing hate on DU.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #253)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:48 PM

268. Of course I don't condone or agree with those statements --this is a 13 year old

i have said numerous times i agree with the portion of the argument that speaks about the results of education and the results of lacking education and how without, it leaves a person in an inferior position in society because education is a means for advancement.

but is say again and again, that this is not on teachers, nor even the public education system, but on the nation and the way it has failed to deal with poverty and fully address centuries of discrimination and its affects among disfavored groups --and the lack of dealing with poverty as it has been dealt with in other wealthy nations.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:50 PM

63. She seems like a very hate filled person

 

She was obviously brought up in an environment where she was taught a lot of hate and fear. As an 8th grader her ignorant generalizations of whites must have been taught so hopefully she can grow up a little bit.
It's amazing how all these racist white teachers never taught her how to read or write.

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Response to mactime (Reply #63)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:52 PM

67. that's a horrid thing to say and I don't see how you

 

draw that conclusion. Did you read the whole article? And you seem not to get that she's 13.

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Response to cali (Reply #67)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:07 PM

70. She is 13

 

that is why I pointed out she must have been taught this hate and hopefully can still grow out of it.

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Response to cali (Reply #67)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:16 AM

105. lots of new people in this thread

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #105)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:35 AM

136. And lots of old people...

advocating a teacher and union-bashing screed, promoted, and published by an unabashed Republican, anti-education, anti-gay, group cloaking itself in the name and image of Frederick Douglass.

I'm actually kind of amazed to see so much love for Republican hate on DU. I've never seen it like this before.

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Response to harmonicon (Reply #136)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:00 PM

183. It's certainly a different DU from the past

Last edited Tue May 8, 2012, 01:11 PM - Edit history (2)

it used to be when something like this was posted, half the posters would be web-sleuthing the story/source veracity, plus any additional backstory...a lot more gets unquestionably taken at "face value" now...

But it'll all 'come out in the wash', as they say...Before Michelle Rhee's "miracle work" was exposed as smoke, mirrors and rigged statistics all for the purpose of busting unions, pimping corporate takeovers and furthering her political ambitions, she had a whole army of "But at least she's doing something!!" -defenders on DU...

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Response to mactime (Reply #63)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:13 AM

104. She was obviously brought up in a home where she was taught to think for herself

regardless of the punitive adults she might run into for expressing her views.

(The teachers and administrators in her school did an excellent job proving her point.)

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #104)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:12 PM

234. I'd like to know the truth about the school "punishing" her for the essay

because I've never heard of a school shipping a capable student away unless they had major behavior problems...I'd also like to know why no agreement could be made during the several teacher-parent meetings...

Although it should be said that I don't think the posters in this thread appreciate just how serious Williams' accusation is (especially if it was an opinion that trickled down from her mother)...It's one thing to accuse her teachers of incompetence or being unqualified; it's a whole other thing to say "You are all intentionally refusing to teach me properly because of my skin color...", which is puts the teachers' honor and professionalism on trial... Even if she is 13, and that is her true opinion (and not parroting her mother), she can NOT just throw that line out there without backing it up chapter and verse...

I suspect this is the key issue that series of meetings was centered on, and on one side or the other cooler heads did not prevail, so they both decided to part company...

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Response to mactime (Reply #63)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:31 AM

167. I'm not going to say hate-filled

Just that she has the worldview of 13-year-old...

In school I loved writing long, satirical rant essays on current events for english class...Of course, as an adult I can see why the teachers hardly liked them -- They were 100% wrong on pretty much every issue I took a stance on...

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 10:51 PM

64. lol. this is bright, feisty kid

 

I love this kid. I don't agree with every word she wrote, but she sure made a damned great argument. And if the story is true regarding the school's reaction, they totally blew it.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon May 7, 2012, 11:12 PM

74. A good, thinking mind like that should be nurtured & rewarded, not punished.

Instead, it seems that the school's punitive action helped to prove her essay's point.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:01 AM

90. Great essay! It is so true. I saw this myself in school years ago.

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Response to McCamy Taylor (Reply #90)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:11 AM

100. I agree. This is amazingly thoughtful for a 13 year old, whether or not a reader would

draw the same conclusion.

The fact that her school punished her rather than rewarded her for this essay proves her point.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:56 AM

110. For a valid analogy, modern efforts to "prevent real learning from happening" would have to be

 

directed towards Black students.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:14 AM

111. I bet most of the people who disagree with Jada

would do any and everything possible to keep their children out of Jada's school (and comparable schools). Smh

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #111)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:36 AM

113. +1 n/t

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Response to ecstatic (Reply #111)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:12 AM

124. probably. that doesn't mean her school is bad because it's populated by racist teachers, and

 

if you replaced them it would become good.

i'd bet that if her school were staffed by saints sent down from heaven, no one on this thread would still want to send their kids there.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:33 AM

112. Truth!

This is not over the top, this is not an exaggeration, it is the truth of the 21st century.

This is a child who should be nurtured.

The recent conservative effort to control and, in effect, destroy public education in the U.S. has several goals.

One goal is to discredit public education, the whole system. The "No Child Left Behind" farce, with its testing and ranking system has changed schools from places of learning to places of competition and failure with it's meaningless, unrealistic goal oriented ways.

Another goal is to create a new system of private religious and elite schools, often paid for by taxes (vouchers anyone?), to replace the public system.

Another goal is to abandon those who either cannot afford or cannot compete for places in the new system. What happens to those who cannot read and write when public schools are gone. They will become the slaves of the 21st century.

A large part of this will result from the incompetence, either willfully or in ignorance, of the teachers and administrators of today's public schools. While I'm sure some, probably a majority, are doing their best, they don't have the resources or the support to truly educate their students and their numbers are shrinking. As they are replaced with newer, under-educated teachers the decline will increase.

Parents, communities, states and the nation will see the broken system and give up on it, and where will the hopeless students go? To the "christian schools"? To the private academies?

This is not "going to occur someday" it is ongoing right now and has been for a long time. The U.S. is already far below the educational levels of most industrialized nations and falling fast.

The future belongs to places like China and India who have more young people than the "western" countries put together and therefore will have more top level, educated people too: those who will become scientists, engineers, doctors, researchers and teachers for the future.

We? We'll turn out home or private schooled pop idols, mega-church preachers, fashion models and sport stars along with soldiers and a mass of struggling, partially employed drones and consumers.

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Response to Godot51 (Reply #112)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:27 AM

128. This administration has continued and intensified the policies of "no child left behind". Why

 

do you call it a conservative policy? It's not. It's supported by the ruling class on both sides of the aisle.

And it's not because they care a fig for students like this girl.

The children of the ruling class go to private schools. Most of them are integrated, because the ruling class and their administrative cadre are multi-racial.

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #128)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:07 PM

208. Bipartisan or even Democratic does not mean an initiative is conservative

The side of the aisle means very little.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:49 AM

115. Not Over The Top At All

Let's take the original text and then update it to the modern situation and see how well is holds up.

Auld says. "It will forever unfit him to be a slave. He would at once become unmanageable, and of no value to his master."


Jada Williams contends. "It will forever unfit her (Jada) to be kept in her place as were the slaves in the days of Douglass. She would at once become unmanageable, and of no value in this context."

The schools administration, by forcing her to be withdrawn from school over an essay written for a contest, have acted as Auld was admonishing his wife to act. In effect, they have validated her essay.

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Response to DallasNE (Reply #115)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:39 PM

221. + a gazillion!! n/t

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:44 AM

118. A very bright child, she gets what many of my peers do not /nt

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:41 AM

130. I'm not sure this is entirely racial

I went to school, K-12, in a southern, semi-rural, heavily working class, very conservative, very religious, predominately (80%) white school system composed mostly of ex-mill workers' children (not that there were any mills left).

In elementary school, there were never less than 25 students to a class; usually, it was more like 30. As a result, classes tended to be unruly, and the teachers' time was largely spent playing referee with the more rambunctious (most of whom came from broken and frequently abusive homes) students. Studious kids were mocked and bullied; if one happened to be large, he was pushed to play sports.

The gifted program consisted of spending an hour a week in a special class playing games etc. The rest of the time was largely spent doing busy work. If a student was gifted and or lucky enough to have parents who had prepared him, he or she quickly became bored, and turned to such coping mechanisms as reading in class; teachers took offense at this, and interpreted it as lack of respect, an attention span problem, or even a sign of disability. Attempts to medicate usually ensued. Some of the parents raised hell over this, but most were content to take the pills.

Facilities were constantly decrepit. My elementary school was thirty years old at the time I went to it, and not well-maintained. The middle school was sixty-five, with a leaky roof, bad furnace, and unsafe areas; I once got a concussion from one of several broken auditorium chairs. Last I checked, the county had a $118,000,000 backlog of repairs and improvements they needed to make.

But hell, we won the state football championship.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:31 AM

146. As an aside, am I the only one offended that some RW front group

named themselves after Frederick Douglass??


And I've been trying to dig up some more background, especially on the "School #3 ostracized her and forced her to switch schools" -story, but the bulk of details related to it all re-direct back to the FDF...All of the linked news stories to the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle are dead (all that are left are op-eds and public comment blogs)...

And then there's this curious tidbit?

Williams' parents say other teachers began to single out their daughter, a problem that a series of meetings failed to address. They requested a transfer from School #3 and the District switched her to School #19. On February 6, her first day at the new school, Williams said she witnessed several fights and didn't feel comfortable going back. Tuesday was her first day attending School #19 in nearly a month. She did not go back Wednesday. Williams feels expressing her opinion about the Frederick Douglass book has ruined her life. Fighting back tears, she said, "I love to go to school and I feel like they're taking that away from me."

http://rochesterhomepage.net/fulltext?nxd_id=303562

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/05/jada-williams-student-allegedly-harassed-for-essay_n_1321926.html

Maybe the rules in New York State are different, but in the modern era I've never heard of students being switched to another school in the system just on a teacher's whim with no input or choice from the student and parents...I thought for that to happen, a student needed to be a *serious* discipline issue and/or a danger to staff and other students?? And no matter the reason, the school usually has a long paper trail documenting the switch anyway...So I'm very interested to find out the real story behind this...

Secondly, how does a student this committed to a better education for herself get scared out of attending school for a whole month?? So her entire time she never saw a fight at her previous school? I've got a whole lotta questions about what's really going on here...


Now, for my thoughts on the essay: (full disclosure: 1. I'm African-American; 2. I was fortunate enough to go to good schools growing up)...

Yeah, of course she makes some decent general points, but they get smothered in hyperbole...One thing I truly despise is the "cheapening" of the four centuries of atrocities reaped by the African slave trade, which is what happens whenever it is horribly mis-used to illustrate an unfair situation...Every few years some millionaire black athlete will make a really ugly slavery parallel to describe his contract dispute, and I just cringe...

There are zero parallels between her situation and slavery--The only thing that would make it come close would be if the public schools were her only access to information and learning, and her life was at risk if she dared seek knowledge elsewhere...It is with some irony that I remember Frederick Douglass. Booker T. Washington and so many other great minds of the 19th century were self-taught, without access to the innernettes or sprawling libraries...I don't know if her teachers are completely deserving of her scorn, or if they're 100 percent blameless and Williams is the one with the problem...I do however hope this motivates her to contemplate a future career in education (assuming of course her essay isn't total sensationalist bullshit)...

And finally, if the Bill Cosby mess from a decade ago taught us anything, it's that no matter how much you may agree, no matter how good the points being brought up are, no matter if they may exactly on target -- If it has the blessing and full-throttle promotion of ultra-conservative front groups, DROP IT and run far, far away...

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #146)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:19 PM

213. Thank you.

I didn't want to open this thread again because it was making me cry. But now I'm glad I did.

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Response to Starry Messenger (Reply #213)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:41 PM

248. No sweat...

I must be the natural-born thread killer, because I'm all over this one with no responses at all

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #146)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:43 PM

250. winger fingerprints all over this story. the folks who are always telling us cases like trayvon

 

martin's have nothing to do with racism are telling us in this case that all white teachers are racist?

those folks just *love* education privatization. and some of the reasons they do have to do with getting federal dollars to run segregated private schools.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:57 AM

149. Quoting Woodrow Wilson:

 

"We want one class of persons to have a liberal education, and we want another class of persons, a very much larger class, of necessity, in every society, to forgo the privileges of a liberal education and fit themselves to perform specific difficult manual tasks."

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 09:58 AM

151. Blaming the teachers is merely pointing out the symptoms and not understanding the disease...

Last edited Tue May 8, 2012, 10:45 AM - Edit history (2)

This is from a 13 year olds perspective at the classroom level and not a view on the systemic problems of the education system.

The problem of todays education system isn't teachers, it's the system which has now over arching corporate control, lack of funding, ever evolving education curriculum and treating national education as a political volley ball to be batted around at will to serve lobbyists, politicians and corporate interests.

The slow dismantling of various teachers unions, the firing of long time teachers and hiring "cheaper" new teachers with virtually no experience and with no mentoring programs is a deliberate effort to erode the system and allow it to be easily controlled by outside forces.

In conjunction: there are good teachers out there of all races. The problem teachers face isn't so much that they are bad teachers (although there are many), it's that the curriculum as been skewed so much toward teaching toward state and national mandated testing, that the art of real teaching is taking a backseat.

Once upon a time, teachers were able to go off curriculum to discuss topics at length. Now, they have to try and eek out the odd 5 to 15 minutes here and there to try and reach the students.

We have lost art, music and gym, we have lost civics, language programs and many after school activities in much of our grossly underfunded school system. Yet people still complain as to why kids don't get a proper education.

The working parents, couples and single, are at wits end to engage their child between struggling to maintain an income and a cohesive family. As a result, more pressure is put upon the teacher to try and "parent" kids. Yet parents get bent out of shape when their kid gets a poor report from school.

Teachers with no support from the parents and parents who perceive their child as doing no wrong or are unable or unwilling to be reasonable, is a failing cooperative endeavor.

The constant de-funding of schools, the rewarding of better schools and removal of funds from the "under performers", is destroying our kids education. Why punish an under performing school? Many times they are under performing because they don't have the funds to allow teachers to properly do their jobs.

While this student makes the comparison to slavery by equating white centric teachers as "masters" to the "slaves" of students of color, this students perspective is skewed to only her microcosm.

While I do understand the students perspective, I can only state that it's from a limited view, however, what I do hope happens is that it opens a debate on a wide range of topics concerning the problems with our public education system. One of which is funding.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:06 AM

152. As an experiment, set up a charter school with black students and black, mostly male, teachers

 

I'm inclined to think that you'd get pretty good results.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #152)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:18 AM

166. That raises an interesting point:

 

there is much lamenting if the race of the teachers doesn't match the race of the students. How can a white teacher be expected to reach out to black students? And so on.

And yet I hear virtually no concern over the fact that most primary teachers are women (something like 90%) whereas their student body is an even split.

The difference in learning styles between boys and girls is well documented. Between blacks and whites? No difference.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #166)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:46 AM

174. There is a significant difference in age of puberty between blacks and whites

 

So that may cause some social and behavioral differences.

Although the age of puberty has generally been dropping so that many girls may be starting breast development by 8 or 9.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #174)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:56 PM

252. Any difference in age of puberty between black & white has to do with weight & body fat %,

 

not race specifically.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #152)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:48 PM

200. This is total racism

If there was a school that had a student body that was 100% white and there was discussion about hiring a black teacher and one of the parents said "I think white kids should be taught by white teachers," there would be riots.

White kids may feel more comfortable with white teachers, but these white kids live in a world where they are expected to get along with black people, work with black people, and learn from black people. Creating a world where there are no black people is a racist fantasy, and it's that kind of garbage that we need to get away from.

So why is it any less racist when it's the other way around?

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #200)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:52 PM

201. Since black people are victims of racism, they cannot themselves be racists.

 

One of the issues is that black parents do not trust white teachers to act in the best interests of their children. They communicate this feeling to their children, who in turn lose respect for white teachers. Furthermore, any dispute regarding the child's education results in a racially charged interaction between the black parents and the white teacher.

The solution is to have black children taught by black teachers.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #201)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:05 PM

206. You ever been beat up because of the color of your skin?

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #206)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:15 PM

211. No, but how would that be relevant?

 

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #211)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:18 PM

212. If I say "I'm going to go find a black person and beat her up because she's black"

What does that make me?

Does it make me a racist?

I think people who attack other people because of the color of their skin are racists, regardless of the color of the victim or the perpetrator.

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #212)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:27 PM

215. If you're white or Asian, you're racist; if black, no; if Latino, need more data.

 

A black person cannot be racist because the black person is acting out a response to institutionalized racism.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #215)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:51 PM

226. What about someone who is half black?

 

Like they can pass as white in the winter, but when they get a tan they cannot.

Are they racist half the time?

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #215)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:13 PM

275. So if 5 black people get together and beat me up for being white

I'm the racist in the equation.

Good to know.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #201)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:50 PM

225. Black parents train their kids not to trust white people?

 

Well that's a pretty big problem don't you think?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #225)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:16 PM

237. It's essential for their survival in an institutionally racist white society

 

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #237)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:19 PM

238. And apparently leading to modern day slavery

 

if this essay is accurate.

So maybe rethink that one.

BTW: raising your kids not to trust any race is inherently racist. Don't trust certain individuals: acceptable. Don't trust certain skin colors: bad.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #238)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:27 PM

241. Beyond trust, there is the "disconnect" caused by "different cultural and historical backgrounds".

 

Now, Jada and her mother say that those words touched off a controversy at School 3, with Jada feeling persecuted for expressing her opinion. After Jada turned in the essay, her mother Carla Williams said that her daughter started getting in trouble in class and earning poor marks. She said one teacher even confronted the girl, telling her that she was offended. The family has the backing of the Frederick Douglass Foundation, Rochester Parents United and school board member Cynthia Elliott.

“It just appears to me that here again our staff doesn’t seem to be on the same page as parents and students,” Elliott said. “That’s distressing to me.”

School district spokeswoman Linda Dunsmoor said the school and the district had worked with the family to resolve the situation, but declined to offer further comment. Dunsmoor said school officials would not be made available to discuss the situation.

Elliott has long been outspoken about the disconnect that can occur in a school district where the vast majority of students are black or Hispanic, and the teaching force is predominantly white, as students and teachers bring different cultural and historical backgrounds with them into the classroom.


http://www.change.org/petitions/13-yr-old-jada-williams-mistreated-by-rochester-city-school-district-call-rcsd-complain-about-this-injustice

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #241)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:29 PM

242. This focus on the "parents teaching their kids to be racist" thing for now

 

Do you think it's ok to tell your kids to hate and distrust white people?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #242)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:42 PM

249. "Hate"? No. "Distrust"? Yes.

 

Parents of kids of any easily identifiable group tell their kids to distrust people not belonging to the group because of the likelyhood that they will encounter others who will harm them because of their identity.

That doesn't mean that they should trust strangers from within the identity group. All strangers should be distrusted to some degree until there is good evidence to support trust.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #249)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:43 PM

251. Ok, now we're getting somewhere

 

it is acceptable then to assume an entire race of people is untrustworthy because you have had a bad experience with members of that race in the past?

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #251)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:31 PM

262. Individual experience doesn't matter

 

What matters is whether members of the other group have harmed members of your group.

E.g. If you are gay, you probably don't want to trust people who are wearing T-shirts with homophobic slogans on them, irrespective of whether you have been personally attacked before.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #262)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:33 PM

263. In your example the person involved

 

has identified themselves as being homophobic by their choice in clothing.

Does one choose ones skin color?

And being white shouldn't be considered the same as wearing an offensive t-shirt expressing your hated of a group of people.

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Response to 4th law of robotics (Reply #263)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:43 PM

266. Choice just changes the probabilities of a bad interaction, not the possibility

 

Statistically the situation is similar.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #266)

Tue May 8, 2012, 04:14 PM

273. Ah so it's ok to judge an entire race if you have the stats on your side

 

what percentage of this race would have to be wicked to make this acceptable?

And by that reasoning *any* person is a potential serial killer. Best shoot first ask questions later.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #241)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:08 PM

254. Rochester Parents United - the plot thickens.

 

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Response to HiPointDem (Reply #254)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:38 PM

265. This 13-year old's essay is in a broader political fight in Rochester

 

There is some sort of controversy over the appointment of a new Superintendent, who appears to be Hispanic.

It's likely that whatever the true situation, the kid is being used.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #265)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:46 PM

267. agreed. the involvement of parents united & the folks who gave her the prize, plus the fact

 

that people like (racist) glenn beck are talking this up as a civil rights story are pretty good clues.

plus the girl's remarks about teachers "bragging" about their credentials and *tenure*.

yeah, all the teachers i've known brag about their tenure. lol.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #241)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:22 PM

257. Ahh... yes, the family has the backing of right-wing groups which want to destroy public education.

Gotcha.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #152)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:07 PM

207. 1. plenty of them already exist

2. their results run the gamut, depending on funding and quality of teaching. -- Of course, it's impossible to truly measure "success" since the charters can cherry-pick the good students and dump the difficult ones back in the public school system (who by law, must teach them)

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Response to Blue_Tires (Reply #207)

Tue May 8, 2012, 01:29 PM

218. Statistics on parent satisfaction and on parent-teacher relationships would be most relevant

 

Math and reading scores? Not so much.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #152)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:25 PM

240. that's not the solution

the solution, at least better than any of the boutique solutions is to end the effects of poverty, period.

you will help the poor of all races, help them be prepared mentally and physically to get a proper education --which will cost you less because they are prepared.

and those races that are most victimized by society will get the most help because there are more poor among their numbers than in other groups.

and that is the ONE thing we could do that would improve our schools overnight.

make sure all children have food, shelter, health care and the opportunity for education and higher education --and make sure their parents have the same.

the results from that would be unimaginable.

no tricky experiments to try, no games to play while we figure out what to do.

just freaking deal with the effects of poverty by making sure people are shielded from its effects.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #152)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:41 PM

278. Also, how would this not look like the 1950s deep south

where all the white kids go to a shiny new school while all the black kids go to the ancient, janky, busted school?

You do realize that you are calling for segregation, right?

George Wallace, is that you?

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #278)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:01 PM

283. You could do it in a northern city where the mayor, council, and school board are mostly black

 

And where the spending per pupil is greater than average for the state.

The only problem might be getting enough black teachers.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #283)

Tue May 8, 2012, 07:58 PM

295. Why a northern city and not, say, Atlanta?

Is Chicago inherently less racist than Atlanta?

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #295)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:16 PM

298. Does Atlanta have predominantly white teachers? Does it have the problem that Rochester has?

 

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #298)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:20 PM

299. Yes, all the teachers in Atlanta are white

n/t

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Response to XemaSab (Reply #299)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:41 PM

304. It's hard to find statistics on school staff racial breakdowns. No affirmative action for teachers?

 

Don't school districts have to comply with affirmative action requirements to recruit teachers that reflect the racial composition of their student bodies?

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #304)

Tue May 8, 2012, 08:55 PM

306. Why are you so hung up on the idea that students can't learn from teachers of different races?

Would you want your kids to only have white teachers?

Did you feel like having people of color as teachers held you back educationally?

Me, I personally liked having white teachers, black teachers, Latino teachers, Asian teachers, male teachers, female teachers, young teachers, old teachers, gay teachers, straight teachers, American teachers, foreign teachers, Catholic teachers, pagan teachers, buddhist teachers, Mormon teachers, and so forth. It gave me a lot of respect for diversity and it gave me a lot of understanding about how people of cultures that are different from mine think.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 10:16 AM

154. If it's the other guy/gal, it's ALWAYS the other guy/gal. That goes for both "sides" of any question

and if it's always the other guy/gal, one never authentically seeks to discover and to do what one CAN do about the situation. That discovery is essential to the particular nature of the dyad we refer to as learning.

And it is that assumption that whatever my "little" part of the dysfunction/ERROR in the interaction is, it does not matter/it's insignificant that paralyzes the discoveries that are essential to learning.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:11 AM

161. Failure...

Last edited Tue May 8, 2012, 12:21 PM - Edit history (2)

I think we fail to see the point if we take this essay and make it a discussion that focuses a bit too much on race relationships. The race issue could be perhaps the only way she knows how to explain the world of her predicament and frustration with how the 'old system' of doing things in a capitalistic system of controling the populace by focusing privilege on the hands of few people refuses to die. I am growing increasingly convinced that schools are the new building blocks to the next slave/cheap labor force. Why? Because the US is beginning to run out of places from where to get that cheap labor from. Bad habits and memes are hard to destroy. We are a nation built by slaves and cheap labor, we do not know any other way of moving forward without exploiting others. Poor is the new black. Money is privilege and privilege is freedom. By manipulating the wealth of the individual (financial wealth, knowledge wealth, etc.) you are just manipulating freedom.

"If you teach that nigger (women, poor, LGBT, nonwhite minorities, people in the margins of society, etc.) how to read (be independent of the system, control their debt, make the right decisions, etc.), there will be no keeping him," Auld says. "It will forever unfit him to be a slave. He would at once become unmanageable, and of no value to his master."

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Response to Lost-in-FL (Reply #161)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:35 AM

168. Agreed! in all but "... privilege is freedom." Any position that CANNOT survive without oppression

(which is the essence of privilege, i.e. the power by one means or another to keep others at a disadvantage in order to maintain one's own advantage) ... any such position DEPENDS upon in-equality in many forms and is, hence, not strong enough to exist, amongst peers, on it's own fully developed merits and is, therefore, NOT free. It is enslaved by it's own regressions which result from dependence upon other slaves.

Paolo Freire describes this and how we internalize the oppressor in his book Pedagogy of the Oppressed.

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Response to patrice (Reply #168)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:57 AM

181. Thanks for the reference.

I need to check that out!

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Response to Lost-in-FL (Reply #181)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:16 PM

190. BTW, Freire is also the more widely recognized source of: "Teachers as Learners and Learners as

Teachers" which formulates the necessity of BOTH elements realizing their functionalities APPROPRIATELY in BOTH roles, a formulation that is also more or less overt in the works of John Dewey, though it is pretty widely recognized that Dewey's principles have been pretty much prostituted.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:46 AM

173. I understand her issue with the lack of funding and the continuing packets (busy work).

But I feel any teacher of any race can teach any child of any race. I work as a sub in city schools and sometimes in smaller towns. I relate and have fun interacting with kids of all races. The most important thing as a teacher is that one has a passion for wanting to teach children. Of course, she is only 13. Funding is a racial/class issue but teaching doesn't have to be. Lots of dedicated teachers happen to be white and work in inner city schools.
And the busy work...I have been in enough classrooms that I have noticed that sometimes it is not just left for subs to make it easier. Some of the schools I have been in use worksheets everyday. There is an over reliance on those worksheets in some class rooms.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 11:48 AM

177. For having such a terrible education,

she sure can write a pretty good essay (tho i dont necessarily agree with her all her stance)

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:03 PM

184. Agree with the Kid.

She is spot on.

"Only the educated are free." -- Epictetus

I live in metro Detroit. My suburb's schools are top-notch. The City of Detroit's are trying -- but they need much more. What's the hold-up? You know what the hold-up is -- and who's doing the holding.

PS: Thanks for this most revealing thread, SoCalDem. Outstanding in every way.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 12:44 PM

199. Busy work...sigh...teachers that live off of 'busy work'

 

are not teachers, they are merely instructors.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 02:11 PM

233. Stolen Hypothesis from the GOP

 

She stole this hypothesis from the GOP who have been trying to sabotage public education for years in an attempt to ensure they have the low information voters they need.

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Response to lobodons (Reply #233)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:23 PM

258. Not just low information voters, but also, voters with information engineered to specs

It would be useful for the GOP to see to it that what information that IS out there would be based on cognitive foundations engineered to market specifications implemented by the charter schools, so whatever functional students that do come out of the education system have specific kinds of mind sets.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:26 PM

261. K/R and BTW, Race or Class, doesn't matter, it's about power in the hands of a few.

 

Lest anyone insist this is exclusively a problem about race, we need to recognize that the system games the rich against the poor and powerless regardless of skin color.

Good for you, Jada Williams.

Sorry, Jada, but your truthfulness is a little too dangerous for some people in some schools.

I wish you nothing but success.

K/R

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Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #261)

Tue May 8, 2012, 03:34 PM

264. yes, it's certainly about the ability of power to create narratives that further its power.

 

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Tue May 8, 2012, 05:23 PM