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Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:11 PM

"no evidence of any use of excessive force"

So officers drag a man, heard screaming and obviously weakened on video, to the van, subsequently stop the van "to put more restraints on"" the man, who is subsequently found to be both unable to talk or breathe, and who subsequently undergoes surgery not only for vertebral fracture which had resulted in spinal injury, but for an injured larynx, and the Police Commissioner issues a statement that there is "no evidence of any use of excessive force at this point", describing the injury as "“a very tragic injury to his spinal cord", and for some reason finding no reason to mention the laryngeal injury, as if the laryngeal injury is not relevant to the issue of how his neck was broken.

Does anyone want to bet that the acts of "placing additional restraints" on the suspect in the stopped van is not on videotape?










Freddie Gray died Sunday, a week after Baltimore city police arrested him. A charging document obtained Monday by the Baltimore Sun said Gray “fled unprovoked upon noticing police presence.” . . . . .

Video of the arrest played by police at a news conference Monday did not show how Gray suffered his injury, which Deputy Police Commissioner Jerry Rodriguez described as “a very tragic injury to his spinal cord, which resulted in his death,” citing the preliminary results of an autopsy. . . “What we don’t know, and what we need to get to, is how that injury occurred,” Rodriguez said. He noted that “when Mr. Gray was put in that van, he could talk, he was upset, and when he was taken out of that van, he could not talk and he could not breathe.”

Rodriguez added that police had “no evidence” of any use of excessive force at this point, including from the preliminary results of the autopsy.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/04/20/baltimore-police-freddie-gray-arrested-without-force-or-incident-before-fatal-injury/








A man hospitalized following a videotaped encounter with Baltimore police remains in a medically-induced coma. According to the Baltimore Sun, family members say Freddie Gray underwent surgery on an injured back and larynx. The incident happened Sunday morning as officers tried to stop Gray in the 1600 block of North Avenue, but it is unclear how the 27-year-old became injured. Police are releasing a detailed timeline of their encounter with Gray, who they say took off running when they tried to stop him in an area with a history of drug dealing and violence. The timeline says Gray was arrested one minute later and placed in a transport wagon, but police say that van was stopped to put more restraints on Gray. Officers say video evidence shows he was conscious and speaking at the time. About 30 minutes after that, paramedics were called to the Western District station to take Gray to Shock Trauma.

http://weaa.org/post/news-wrap-suspect-injured-custody-coma-cummings-weighs-senate-bid








A man injured after being arrested by the Baltimore police died today, according to The Baltimore Sun.

Freddie Gray had to undergo a double surgery on three broken vertebrae and an injured voice box on Tuesday, after he was released by the police. He died today after days of remaining in a coma.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/04/black-suspect-dies-after-baltimore-cops-break-his-spine-in-brutal-police-beating/





Here is footage up to Gray being placed in the van:










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Reply "no evidence of any use of excessive force" (Original post)
Faryn Balyncd Apr 2015 OP
HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #1
gwheezie Apr 2015 #2
Faryn Balyncd Apr 2015 #10
gwheezie Apr 2015 #14
mike_c Apr 2015 #3
libdem4life Apr 2015 #4
gwheezie Apr 2015 #5
Comrade Grumpy Apr 2015 #6
rhett o rick Apr 2015 #7
think4yourself Apr 2015 #11
yardwork Apr 2015 #29
Enthusiast Apr 2015 #19
Kalidurga Apr 2015 #28
justiceischeap Apr 2015 #8
bvar22 Apr 2015 #9
etherealtruth Apr 2015 #12
canuckledragger Apr 2015 #13
etherealtruth Apr 2015 #17
canuckledragger Apr 2015 #25
etherealtruth Apr 2015 #27
rhett o rick Apr 2015 #33
sulphurdunn Apr 2015 #15
Roy Rolling Apr 2015 #16
lpbk2713 Apr 2015 #18
Enthusiast Apr 2015 #21
samsingh Apr 2015 #20
spanone Apr 2015 #22
Moral Compass Apr 2015 #23
Mr.Bill Apr 2015 #24
gwheezie Apr 2015 #26
Mojo Electro Apr 2015 #30
SoCalDem Apr 2015 #31
mcar Apr 2015 #32

Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:16 PM

1. The concept of limited hangout is about only admitting to what is known at the time

Homicide was was committed against the person put in custody.

It's just a matter of time before the bosses realize sacrificing their murderous employee is better than falling on a sword.

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:23 PM

2. the initial injury could have been exacerbated

He could have had a fracture that was not displaced initially but was manhandled during a 2nd event in the van. That's why they put collars on trauma victims. I've seen it happen twice where the person has a spinal injury made worse when they are being handled.
I would think the injury to the larynx would be esdy enough to determine on autopsy. Was it crushed or was it it injured during intubation? Did he stop breathing for another reason and when they positioned his head to do CPR did they displace a fracture. The people that know aren't talking.

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Response to gwheezie (Reply #2)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 04:42 PM

10. You are correct.



It is possible that the fracture may have happened before being place in the van, and subsequently exacerbated.

And more details regarding the larynx should be apparent on autopsy.

There is mention in some reports of a "crushed larynx", but the source of that description is not clear in anything I have read, but it seems that he did have laryngeal surgery.

If Gray had a laryngeal fracture, his voice in the early part of the above video taken by a bystander did not sound like someone who had just sustained a laryngeal fracture, and such a finding would emphasize the importance of knowing more about the subsequent "placing of additional restraints" when the van subsequently stopped.

The vague tone of the Police Commissioner stating that "no evidence of excessive force" found at autopsy, while totally omitting any mention of the larynx, in the context of a patient who apparently had a condition calling for laryngeal surgery, is suspect, and incompetent, if not intentionally misleading.







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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Reply #10)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 04:54 PM

14. the mayor said his request for medical tx was denied

Clearly something happened in that van. The autopsy report should shed more light on exactly what other injuries he had.
I've had to caution people while restraining someone that you cannot put pressure on the neck and torso of the person. You cannot twist the spine or joints out of normal alignment. If the person is trying to bite or head butt you can place hands on either side of the head and if there is going to be any turning or repositioning of the person the head and neck must be turned as well. I hate restraining people. It is much too quick of an answer.

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:24 PM

3. something I don't understand about this story....

In particular, I don't understand why no one appears to be asking why Gray was arrested in the first place. In fairness, I don't have television, so I don't know whether this is being widely reported on TV and therefore not discussed online. But what probable cause did the cops think implicated Gray in any crime? The circumstance that he tried to leave the area when cops arrived? Hell, I usually try to be scarce whenever cops arrive unexpectedly-- they're violent, authoritarian, and encounters with them usually turn out badly. Is it a crime to try to avoid contact with cops?

I've also heard it reported that he was carrying a knife. I've heard it variously described as a "switchblade knife" and as a "springed folding knife" that can be opened with one hand. I have a folding knife with a locking spring that can be opened with one hand in my pocket right now. It's a plain pocket knife. The kind you use to open packages, maybe dig a splinter out or something similar. Yeah, I suppose I could use it to hijack an airplane. But is it illegal? Where do you get arrested for carrying a pocket knife on a public street? I certainly want to avoid that place just as much as I want to avoid spending street time with cops.

It sure seems apparent that Gray was injured by excessive force during his arrest. But why was he arrested? Was it just to harass the black guy who didn't want to be around while the cops were there? Is that illegal in Baltimore?

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Response to mike_c (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:29 PM

4. BWR...He made eye contact (supposedly) with the officers and ran. Black While Running...the knife

 

was in a sheath under his pants, I believe. Irrelevant, however badly they want to create an excuse for murder.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #3)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:29 PM

5. I agree with you

All kinds of questions about why he died but why did they stop him? I heard several accounts by the police its because he ran from them. Wtf. I don't believe that for a minute. How do they know why he was running even if he was running?

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:42 PM

6. "No evidence of any use of excessive force." Well, except for the dead guy they killed.

 

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:46 PM

7. Surprised they didn't say "He died of natural causes." nm

 

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 04:45 PM

11. This story stinks to high Heaven.

They stopped the van to apply more retraints? He looked limp going IN. It sounds like they punched him in his Adam's apple.

I lived in Baltimore for 6 years. My distrust of the police began and was firmly solidified there. It was a street gang that exercised overwhelming force for the most petty offenses. That was twenty years ago. I had hoped they had gotten better...

These stories are tragic and sad. I am just so angry right now.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #7)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 06:46 PM

29. I think they're trying to figure out a way to sell that.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 05:18 PM

19. Good point.

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Response to Comrade Grumpy (Reply #6)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 06:44 PM

28. That is what I was thinking.

People dying while being restrained in policing event almost always indicates excessive force was used. Otherwise they would not be dead.

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 03:50 PM

8. The police commissioner isn't saying anything about the injured larynx

in his presser's. All he talks about is the spinal injury. I wonder one, if there was no larynx injury or two, he hopes people will forget about that if he doesn't mention it.

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 04:07 PM

9. Breaking somebody's back and killing them...

...is no longer "excessive force"???!!!!!

What does it take to cross that line of "excessive force"?... dismemberment with a chain saw?

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 04:49 PM

12. It appears that it would take "dismemberment with a chain saw"

For these idiots to admit excessive force .... I heard the interview on my way home and could not believe my ears.

Do these jack asses ever hear themselves talk?

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 04:53 PM

13. It's called white washing

There's financial and criminal liability at stake here!

Of COURSE they're going to lie about their actions and the consequences of those actions...

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Response to canuckledragger (Reply #13)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 05:13 PM

17. I think it would be better to say something akin to ....

"We can't comment on an on going investigation'

In the interview they simply sounded like sociopaths

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Response to etherealtruth (Reply #17)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 06:13 PM

25. maybe it's because they ARE sociopaths?

I don't make any excuses for violent cops anymore.

It's not the 'stress' of the job or crap like that...these are people that WANT to hurt someone and get away with it on a daily basis, protected by the system.

There needs to a complete overhaul of the justice system in the US, with clear consequences for brutal, violent prone authority figures.

Something independent of what exists rights now, so you don't have the corruption and backscratching like what happened in the Ferguson grand jury fiasco.

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Response to canuckledragger (Reply #25)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 06:19 PM

27. I am with you

It is so horrific and so out of control .... I have the feeling that is has always been out of control here, technology makes it impossible to ignore

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #9)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 07:26 PM

33. If you use force to restrain someone and you end up breaking their neck and they

 

die, by definition it's excessive force.

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 05:07 PM

15. The cops should have

 

transported him in an aid unit with paramedics and not in a paddy wagon. It is likely they finished the work they began on the street in the wagon when they "put more restraint on." At least that's how it appears at this juncture.

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 05:09 PM

16. It is apparent

the Key word is "evidence"

It seems the evidence-gatherers are also expert at preventing evidence in the first place.

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 05:16 PM

18. This reminds me of the Cassandra Feuerstein case.




Feuerstein sustained serious facial injuries in a Skokie holding cell while in custody on a DUI charge. The big difference here however is her LEO assailant had to admit to causing the injuries because it was caught on tape. In Gray's case everyone is playing the Sgt Schultz role. His injuries were too severe to be from the usual "rough handling". It had to be from intentionally delivered trauma like a kick or as in Feuerstein's case imapct with a hard object.


?w=597&h=311&crop=1

Link: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/11/13/former-skokie-cop-gets-probation-for-shoving-woman-in-cell/

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Response to lpbk2713 (Reply #18)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 05:20 PM

21. That was very violent and entirely unnecessary.

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 05:18 PM

20. i think the broken neck was evidence of excessive force

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 05:21 PM

22. the evidence of 'excessive force' is a 25 year old healthy man's death


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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 05:43 PM

23. The injuries and the subsequent death are themselves evidence of excessive force

The police who are always allowed to investigate themselves will always exonerate themselves.

Until we have citizen staffed boards of inquiry this will go on and on and on... And even then I'm not sure the problem would not remain.

Juries of citizens routinely exonerate the police in the most egregious cases.

The police are trained to instantly escalate when encountering any resistance. Resistance is to be met with overwhelming force.

He resisted. They met this with incapacitating force.

The video starts once they'd cuffed him. What happened before that? He was clearly taken down very, very hard and was already badly injured. There is no video of what happened in the van when he was most likely struggling in his restraints due to his agony. So, they stopped and forcefully further restrained him. I can imagine he might have been screaming so that a nice quick punch to the throat to shut him up might have been in order.

Again, the injuries themselves show that excessive force was used. To contend otherwise is absurd.

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 06:04 PM

24. Listen to this prophet:

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Response to Mr.Bill (Reply #24)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 06:18 PM

26. the only thing new is the video

This has been happening for centuries.

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 06:49 PM

31. um....except for the broken neck

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Response to Faryn Balyncd (Original post)

Tue Apr 21, 2015, 06:52 PM

32. Another horrific murder

So now black men are not allowed to make eye contact with LEO?

My heart breaks for this poor man and his family. When will it end?

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