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Fri Mar 27, 2015, 09:55 PM

 

Matthew 18:6 and religious lies

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Cali_Democrat (a host of the General Discussion forum).

A thread on this board is making the claim that the Bible supports the abuse, mangling and killing of children. To support its claim, the OP is using a graphic that contains at least one lie on it.

The graphic insists that Matthew 18:6 supports the drowning, stoning, cannibalism, burning stabbing and poisoning of young children.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6423745

That assertion is a complete and unambiguous lie. The verse in question, Matthew 18:6, actually is about the PROTECTION of children:


5"And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; 6 but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.



For those of you not educated in the Bible, Matthew 18:6 refers to Jesus and a little child. The back story is that the disciples are arguing among themselves as to who would be the greatest in the Kingdom of heaven. Jesus calls a small child to him and tells the disciples:

"Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven.


He then goes on to say that whoever humbles himself as this child will enter the kingdom of heaven. And if a person accepts a humble child like this, he also will enter the kingdom of heaven.

The end of the quote, Matthew 18:6, is actually a warning to those who would hurt a child or cause that child to do evil. It is the adult that does evil to a child that would be better off drowned.

The entire quote is about the PROTECTION of the child.

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Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Matthew 18:6 and religious lies (Original post)
Wella Mar 2015 OP
brooklynite Mar 2015 #1
Wella Mar 2015 #2
phil89 Mar 2015 #4
Wella Mar 2015 #17
Major Nikon Mar 2015 #5
Wella Mar 2015 #18
atreides1 Mar 2015 #7
brooklynite Mar 2015 #9
Wella Mar 2015 #19
Wella Mar 2015 #3
RKP5637 Mar 2015 #6
edhopper Mar 2015 #11
Wella Mar 2015 #20
PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #8
RKP5637 Mar 2015 #13
PeaceNikki Mar 2015 #14
Wella Mar 2015 #21
LiberalAndProud Mar 2015 #10
Katashi_itto Mar 2015 #12
Wella Mar 2015 #22
stone space Mar 2015 #15
el_bryanto Mar 2015 #16
beam me up scottie Mar 2015 #23
Cali_Democrat Mar 2015 #24

Response to Wella (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 09:57 PM

1. Of course, there are plenty of OTHER Bible passages that endorse the abuse of children...

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #1)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 09:57 PM

2. How about you show them to me?

 

You can do the research like I did.

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Response to Wella (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:17 PM

4. If you bothered to read the bible you wouldn't need to ask

 

Enough with this trolling nonsense.

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Response to phil89 (Reply #4)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:34 PM

17. So you got nothing...

 

Thanks for playing.

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Response to Wella (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:18 PM

5. Genesis 19:8 (Lot offers up his virgin daughters for rape)

Genesis 17:14 (uncircumcised male children must be cast out of the home)

Genesis 19:24 (God kills everyone, including children, in two cities)

Exodus 4:23 (God threatens to kill children)

Exodus 21: 7-8 (How to sell your daughters into slavery)

There's lots more if you like

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Response to Major Nikon (Reply #5)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:38 PM

18. You didn't address the ones at the link in the OP

 

Those are the ones I'm concerned with.

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Response to Wella (Reply #2)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:23 PM

7. Just some that I've read a long time ago.

Of course I guess it's possible to take these out of context...but if the Bible is considered by many as the infallible word of God, and God is perfect...then these verses must be accurate?


The eye that mocketh at his father, and despiseth to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out, and the young eagles shall eat it. -- Proverbs 30:17


And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and ... offer him there for a burnt offering.... And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son. -- Genesis 22:2,10


The LORD smote all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon.... And there was a great cry in Egypt; for there was not a house where there was not one dead. -- Exodus 12:29-30


And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters. -- Deuteronomy 28:53



And I will cause them to eat the flesh of their sons and the flesh of their daughters, and they shall eat every one the flesh of his friend. -- Jeremiah 19


And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. -- Leviticus 26:29


Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones. -- Psalm 137



If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear. -- Deuteronomy 21:18-21

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:30 PM

9. ...and of course there's always the good old genocide passages...

Samuel 15:3 "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass."

Deuteronomy 2:34 "And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly destroyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city, we left none to remain"

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #7)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:42 PM

19. You've misunderstood the Abraham story

 

Generally, this story is taken as a rejection of child sacrifice, which was common in ancient religions. The fact that God instructs Abraham not to kill Isaac at the altar is a sign to the Jews that child sacrifice is not part of the covenant.

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Response to Wella (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:06 PM

3. I'm waiting....

 

/

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Response to Wella (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:20 PM

6. Here is an interesting Salon article. I am not saying it's right or wrong,

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Response to Wella (Reply #3)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:36 PM

11. And we are waiting for your reply to what has been posted

What about slaying all the firstborn of Egypt, even theinncent babies?

What about punishing an entire people, even to the third generation. (Which is punishing people not yet born) ?

What about telling men to wait a month until they rape the female prisoners when they kill their husbands, you know, so the can mourn some?

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Response to edhopper (Reply #11)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:44 PM

20. Well, while you're waiting you can read the OP and see how lies work.

 

Enjoy!

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Response to Wella (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:30 PM

8. I, for one, don't give a shit.

Religious people lie about the details often, or worse yet, use actual words of their holy texts to discriminate and take away rights from people.

I won't lose any sleep about some egregious harm caused by a misinterpretation like this.

I don't care what it says or doesn't say about abortion or killing children or any other thing. I don't live by it and we shouldn't govern by it. It's just words.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:46 PM

13. Yep, it's all about the politics of power, control, propaganda and persecution, often used as a

Hate Book to justify one's abhorrent behavior because some book says it's fine, or they manipulated it to say it's fine. Bible thumpers really need to think about joining the 21st century IMO.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #13)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:49 PM

14. mmm hmm

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #8)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:45 PM

21. So blatant lies are meaningless to you?

 

I'll remember that.

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Response to Wella (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:35 PM

10. It would seem

that some Catholic priests interpret that verse in a whole different way.

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Response to Wella (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:43 PM

12. Oh. It's Wella.

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Reply #12)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:45 PM

22. Oh, it's Katashi-itto.

 

Your serve.

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Response to Wella (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 10:56 PM

15. Jury Results

 

On Fri Mar 27, 2015, 09:39 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Matthew 18:6 and religious lies
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026426213

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This is a direct callout of another DUer. This is just gonna lead to a hot mess.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Mar 27, 2015, 09:51 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's not a call out. However it's a violation of the SOP of this forum, so let the hosts lock this religion shit.

Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I've seen worse hot messes.

Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I vote to hide, but with some sympathy for the alerter. I saw thae original post earlier today and thought that quote attributed to Matthew didn't sound anything in the New Testament.

I vote to HIDE not because I disagree with what the alerter is saying, but because starting a new thread is not the way to handle the situation. Alerting on the original post is.

Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I read the original, thought it should have been hidden, not this one

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This is the most ridiculous alert that I have ever seen.

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: call out thread

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to Wella (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:09 PM

16. It's best not to engage that sort of post, other than to point out that it belongs in the religion

forum. I give in to the temptation at times, but it never goes anywhere. If someone despises religion and belief they aren't going to be persuaded by an explanation.

Bryant

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Response to Wella (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:53 PM

23. 2 Kings 2:23-24



Why did God kill 42 lads merely for saying Elisha was bald?

2 Kings 2:23-24, “Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up by the way, young lads came out from the city and mocked him and said to him, “Go up, you baldhead; go up, you baldhead!” 24 When he looked behind him and saw them, he cursed them in the name of the LORD. Then two female bears came out of the woods and tore up forty-two lads of their number.”

Why would God allow two bears to kill 42 young lads simply for saying Elisha was bald? Let’s take a look. Elisha was traveling from Jericho to Bethel when a group of young men verbally accosted him. 42 is a large number of people, and they were probably an organized group who had gone out to challenge Elisha. Their mockery implied a malicious intent; especially when the culture of the time insisted on showing respect to their elders. Furthermore, the statement “go up you baldhead!” has cultural significance. First of all, “go up” is probably a reference to Elisha’s predecessor, Elijah, ascending to heaven (2 Kings 2:11). In other words, they are stating they want Elisha gone; and since Elijah had gone on to the “next world,” the implication is they wanted Elisha dead. Also, the epithet ‘baldhead’ was one of “contempt in the East, applied to a person even with a bushy head of hair.” 1 Lepers had to shave their heads, so such a statement could easily have been a deliberate and malicious insult--something dangerous in a mob that can quickly get out of hand.

Given the challenge of the youths, their intimidating number which could constitute a mob, their veiled threat, the contemptuous attitude, and the fact that Elisha was the prophet of God, the Lord allowed the youths to be destroyed.

But, God did not break his own moral law. The Bible says do not murder. Murder is the unlawful taking of life. But, all people have sinned against God and are worthy of death (Rom. 3:23; 6:23). So, God had them killed according to the Law.

https://carm.org/why-did-god-kill-42-lads-merely-saying-elisha-was-bald



Of course I would have just let the bears smack the kids around to teach them a lesson, but I guess your god thought murdering them was a better solution.

Nice.




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Response to Wella (Original post)

Fri Mar 27, 2015, 11:59 PM

24. Locking

 

Repost in Religion.

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