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Sun Mar 15, 2015, 06:07 PM

Isis has reached new depths of depravity. But there is a brutal logic behind it

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/08/isis-islamic-state-ideology-sharia-syria-iraq-jordan-pilot

Islamic traditions are filled with stories of mercy and tolerance. But it is not enough to tell these stories in isolation from other dark chapters in Islamic history that feed groups such as Isis. Isis uses these stories, combined with ideas and concepts accepted by the mainstream, as part of an ideology and a political project in the making. Muslim clerics speak in the realm of theory; Isis practises through stories and action.

What the group does is to match its practices with the “practical” history of Islam, even though many rightly view these practices as contradictory to Islamic teachings. The genius of Isis is that it makes people compare between its acts and those of early Muslims, rather than between its practices and the jihad “on paper”.


This is why when you go on the religion forum, you hear the "no true soctosman" fallacy discused. It is not enough tio say that a religion does not allow atrocity, because the actions of it's leaders will be treated as the example to follow, especially if they won for a period of time. It is why, despite all the "heritage, not hate" stuff, we have every right to dislike the confederate flag, because our equivalent to isis, the KKK and Neo-Nazis, will look upon the action of a Nathan Bedford Forrest and say "well they burned black people on a fire, and they were GOOD Christians!"

and lest you think I pulled that example from thin air:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/billboard-honors-kkk-founder-historic-selma-bridge-article-1.2140326

Note the line describing the tactic to "put the skeer on em." That was the tactic used against black people by Mr. Forrest, and by his followers TODAY. No, you cannot just quote where the religions advise not to do evil, you must show example where followers opf that relgion actively STOP atrocities! It goes for Isis and their brtethren in soul, the KKK, as well as the common "Good hearted people" that are inspired by them.

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Reply Isis has reached new depths of depravity. But there is a brutal logic behind it (Original post)
DonCoquixote Mar 2015 OP
CJCRANE Mar 2015 #1
muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #2
CJCRANE Mar 2015 #3
muriel_volestrangler Mar 2015 #6
CJCRANE Mar 2015 #7
phil89 Mar 2015 #4
CJCRANE Mar 2015 #5

Response to DonCoquixote (Original post)

Sun Mar 15, 2015, 06:38 PM

1. Isis are a nihilist movement

(literally) clothed in the garb of religious conservatism.

Their tactics and attitudes aren't that different from other nihilist movements that cloak themselves in Maoist, Marxist, fascist, nationalist etc. ideology.

It's just the latest iteration of a certain mentality.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #1)

Sun Mar 15, 2015, 06:50 PM

2. In what way do you see them as 'nihilist'?

Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history. In the 20th century, nihilistic themes--epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness--have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Mid-century, for example, the existentialists helped popularize tenets of nihilism in their attempts to blunt its destructive potential. By the end of the century, existential despair as a response to nihilism gave way to an attitude of indifference, often associated with antifoundationalism.

http://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism/

Fundamentally, nihilism represented a philosophy of negation of all forms of aestheticism; it advocated utilitarianism and scientific rationalism. The social sciences and classical philosophical systems were rejected entirely. Nihilism represented a crude form of positivism and materialism, a revolt against the established social order; it negated all authority exercised by the state, by the church, or by the family. It based its belief on nothing but scientific truth; science became the cure-all for social problems. All evils, nihilists believed, derived from a single source—ignorance—which science alone would overcome.

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/415081/nihilism

Which nihilist movements are you thinking of "that cloak themselves in Maoist, Marxist, fascist, nationalist etc. ideology"?

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #2)

Sun Mar 15, 2015, 06:53 PM

3. Nazis, Khmer Rouge, LRA etc.

Look at the Australian kid who joined Isis and blew himself up. Twenty years ago he would have been a prime candidate for a Columbine style event.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #3)

Sun Mar 15, 2015, 07:15 PM

6. That doesn't make them nihilists

It makes them people who are happy killing people not like them. They, and the other groups you list, have pretty specific beliefs about what is 'moral'.

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Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #6)

Sun Mar 15, 2015, 07:23 PM

7. They have different excuses but they all like destroying things.

In the 60s and 70s all the guerillas were marxist this and maoist that. We created the mujahideen in the 80s to fight the evil godless commies. Now those "freedom fighters" have morphed into a purely destructive force that attract people with a heart of darkness.

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Response to DonCoquixote (Original post)

Sun Mar 15, 2015, 07:03 PM

4. No, they're a religious movement

 

doesn't come close to making sense to call them nihilists.

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Response to phil89 (Reply #4)

Sun Mar 15, 2015, 07:13 PM

5. They attract wannabe gangsters, petty criminals

sociopaths and misfits, mostly adolescents with little knowledge of history or religion.

They are bullies, nothing more.

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