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Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:23 PM

Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic

Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic
BANGUI, Central African Republic – Tens of thousands of Muslims are fleeing to neighboring countries by plane and truck as Christian militias stage brutal attacks, shattering the social fabric of this war-ravaged nation.

In towns and villages as well as here in the capital, Christian vigilantes wielding machetes have killed scores of Muslims, who are a minority here, and burned and looted their houses and mosques in recent days, according to witnesses, aid agencies and peacekeepers. Tens of thousands of Muslims have fled their homes.

The cycle of chaos is fast becoming one of the worst outbreaks of violence along Muslim-Christian fault lines in recent memory in sub-Saharan Africa, tensions that have also plagued countries such as Nigeria and Sudan.


The Conversation is dreven by mosters, ISIS, Boko Haram, Atheists, loan wolves, but we should recognize that there are other monsters comitting crimes against humanity.

What is happening in Euope, Syria, Lebanon, and Iraq taks the air from the room, but there are other monsters of different faiths. A friend at facebook brought this to my attention and pointed out that it hasn't gained the attention in the same way as ISIS or even Boko Haram.

I wonder why?

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Reply Tens of thousands of Muslims flee Christian militias in Central African Republic (Original post)
Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 OP
Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #1
Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #5
jwirr Feb 2015 #9
Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #10
jwirr Feb 2015 #13
JonLP24 Feb 2015 #14
jwirr Feb 2015 #15
JonLP24 Feb 2015 #17
JonLP24 Feb 2015 #16
Warren Stupidity Feb 2015 #2
Agnosticsherbet Feb 2015 #4
Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #7
bighart Feb 2015 #3
JonLP24 Feb 2015 #8
JonLP24 Feb 2015 #6
Fred Sanders Feb 2015 #11
JonLP24 Feb 2015 #12
muriel_volestrangler Feb 2015 #18

Response to Agnosticsherbet (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:27 PM

1. If it were "Tens of thousands of Christians fleeing Muslim militias"..........nothing to see here.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:49 PM

5. I agree to this.

But it isn't jut Muslim and Christain. Where it happens matters.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:15 PM

9. The world has been calling for countries to take care of their own problems and when they do we

bitch because the war is about religion. Or so it seems. I think the Christians are a minority and I know that they are often attacked or their churches burned down. So they are fighting back. And it is absolutely two sided.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:26 PM

10. Kind of like the way Muslims are being singled out and attacked in America, no doubt there is a parallel.

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #10)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 02:14 PM

13. Yes, only in America we should know better. We fought WWII to stop this kind of nonsense.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #9)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 02:15 PM

14. Basically the country has a corrupt government and a coalition of rebel forces

that overthrew the country. Muslims are actually the minority and it isn't even close, the coalition largely made up of Muslims but not entirely but doesn't appear religious like Wahabbi organiziations and anti-Seleka Christian rebel forces have responded to the overthrow by committing genocide in Muslim majority neighborhoods. Executions, rape, and looting.

It is basically a civil war made up of predominantly rival factions. The group that took over announced they disolved in response to the chaos & eventually reached a power sharing agreement with the government that was there what appears to be a situation typical of post-colonization. It is interesting how quickly "the fighting back" view was mentioned when basically anti-Seleka Christian rebel groups ethnically cleansed neighborhoods & anyone who may be a supporter of Seleka.

Based on a quick overview the people the overthrew initially were internationally recognized for human rights violations

If this is an area where Boko Haram operates certainly there is an element of that but please tell me who is fighting back?

On 19 January, Save the Children reported that in Bouar gunmen fired a rocket-propelled grenade in an attempt to halt a convoy of Muslim refugees trying to flee the violence. The gunmen then attacked them with firearms, machetes and clubs resulting in 22 deaths.[129] The UN had also warned of a possibility of genocide.[130]

The National Transitional Council elected the new interim president of the Central Africa Republic after Nguendet became the acting chief of state. Nguendet, being the president of the provisional parliament and viewed as being close to Djotodia, did not run for the election under diplomatic pressure.[131] The parliament validated the candidatures of 8 people out of 24.[132]
Samba-Panza period

On 20 January 2014, Catherine Samba-Panza, the mayor of Bangui, was elected as the interim president in the second round voting.[34] The election of Samba-Panza was welcomed by Ban Ki-moon, the UN Secretary-General.[133] Samba-Panza was viewed as having been neutral and away from clan clashes. Her arrival to the presidency was generally accepted by both the ex-Séléka and the anti-balaka sides. Following the election, Samba-Panza made a speech in the parliament appealing to the ex-Séléka and the anti-balaka for putting down their weapons.[134]

The next day anti-Muslim violence continued in Bangui,[135] just days after the Muslim former Health Minister Dr. Joseph Kalite was lynched outside the Central Mosque[136] and at least nine other people were killed when attacked when a mob, some of who were from Christian self-defence groups, looted shops in the Muslim-majority Miskine neighbourhood of Bangui.[137]

The European Union then decided to set up its first military operations in six years when foreign ministers approved the sending of up to 1,000 soldiers to the country by the end of February to be based around Bangui. Estonia promised to send soldiers, while Lithuania, Slovenia, Finland, Belgium, Poland and Sweden were considering sending troops; Germany, Italy and Great Britain announced that they would not send soldiers. The move still needed UNSC approval.[138] As of 20 January, the ICRC reported that it had buried about 50 bodies within 48 hours.[139] It also came after a mob killed two people who they accused of being Muslim, then dragged the bodies through the streets and burnt them.[140] Within the previous month, about 1,000 people had died.[141]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_African_Republic_conflict_%282012%E2%80%93present%29

Genocide has basically been the response to the coup and the group that took it over largely conceded power or remains basically lawless


March 2013- Seleka (Coalition of 5 Muslim rebel groups) has overthrown government and seized power.
March 24-April 30 - around 130 people killed in Bangui.[183]
June - 12 villagers killed.[183]
August - 21 killed during the month.[183]
09 September Bouca violence - 73[184]-153[185] killed.
06 October - 14 killed.[186]
09 October - 30[187]-60[188] killed in clashes.
12 October - 6 killed.[189]
4–10 December - 600[190]-610[191] killed in Bangui and other locations.
2,000+ killed in December and January.[192]

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 02:27 PM

15. Thank you for the information. I did not know any of this. I have been seeing post on DU that

kept talking about the burnings of Christian Churches and the Boko Horam problems. This is indeed two sided and I am glad that the UN troops are there. Unfortunately after reading this I am not feeling good about creating stability in this area. It sounds like Iraq - no real government and the country in a mess.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #15)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 02:38 PM

17. I have heard a lot about Boko Haram

but little knowledge as to what territories they're operating under but know Boko Haram is a Wahabbi cult but chaotic environments are breeding grounds. If they are in this country, it is remarkable the information war taking place since basically my initial research doesn't mention it or it is very insignificant compared to the issues at play here. The rebel coalition appears to have been working with politically rivals rather than brutally oppressing their opressors. So far, I've read numerous reports regarding the mob so if Boko is there, it appears the mob is a largely problem.

Basically this took place since the Saleka coup

September 18 2013– The Seleka, a coalition of rebel groups that took power in the Central African Republic in March, has killed scores of unarmed civilians, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. The Seleka has also engaged in wanton destruction of numerous homes and villages. The 79-page report, The Forgotten Human Rights Crisis in the Central African Republic,” details the deliberate killing of civilians – including women, children, and the elderly – between March and June 2013 and confirms the deliberate destruction of more than 1,000 homes, both in the capital, Bangui, and in the provinces. Many villagers have fled their homes and are living in the bush in fear of new attacks. Human Rights Watch documented the deaths of scores of people from injuries, hunger or sickness.

“Seleka leaders promised a new beginning for the people of the Central African Republic, but instead have carried out large-scale attacks on civilians, looting, and murder,” said Daniel Bekele, Africa director at Human Rights Watch. “What’s worse is that the Seleka have recruited children as young as 13 to carry out some of this carnage.”

On May 28, 2014, Christian militia members threw grenades before shooting indiscriminately at a mosque in the capital Bangui, killing at least 11 people.[23] In July 2014, the government of Uganda declared that was at war with Seleka accusing them of forcing civilians to give food and medicine to the Lords Resistance Army and of trading ivory and minerals with them. Seleka denied the accusation.[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9l%C3%A9ka

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 02:33 PM

16. It appears there have massive Muslim refugees

that happen to be targets of oppression by a country 80%.

Basically the massive atrocities committed against Muslims by the government. The rebel coalition which is predominantly Muslim has been working with the government coming up with power sharing agreements with the same ones response for the massive human rights violations. Anti-Balaki has committed genocide in Muslim majority neighborhoods which is an extension of the crisis humanitarians have expressed concern over. Muslims have long fled & continue to flee the country. Basically in a country 80% country, rebel forces have fought a civil war against people


French and African Union peacekeepers, deployed to CAR to protect civilians, are unable to stop widespread brutal sectarian violence. Assaults on Muslims and their property in whole neighborhoods in Bangui, as pictured in PK13, and in towns liberated from Seleka (Muslim) militias are forcing Muslims to leave their homes. They flee because peacekeepers currently lack the manpower necessary to protect them from marauding bands of anti-Balaka (Christian) militia intent on killing all Muslims, brutalizing their broken bodies and destroying their property; attempting, it seems, to erase their existence from the pages of Central African Republic's history.

Sunday morning, February 9, 2014, in the remaining densely populated Muslim neighborhood in Bangui, Bleasdale reports:

“This morning at least ten people were hacked to death or shot and bodies were burning in the street in Kilo 5, Bangui.” -- Marcus Bleasdale (https://twitter.com/marcusbleasdale)

Within the last few days, thousands of Muslims have fled Bangui for Chad and Cameroon under the armed escort of African Union troops. Many thousands more wait to flee because exodus means, even if they lose their livelihood and property, they may still keep their lives. The anger of Christian militias is so great that on Friday, February 7, 2014, a Muslim man who fell off a convoy truck was hacked to death by an anti-Balaka mob and left dead: missing a foot and a hand, and genitally mutilated in the street. The unthinkable act of his murder is terrifyingly familiar to civilians trapped in CAR. It has become a daily bloodletting.

Anti-Balaka violence is not isolated to Bangui, and is rapidly spreading throughout CAR. Last week in Yaloke, Muslims were given twenty-four hours to leave or be murdered. Property belonging to those who fled was ransacked and looted, leaving the town utterly devastated; resembling the aftermath of a hurricane.

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Foreign_Ministers_of_the_United_Nations_Authorize_and_Deploy_a_UN_Peacekeeping_Mission_for_Central_African_Republic/?copy


It is amazing, you have one sided genocide taking place which a quick looking (rebel coalition that doesn't appear to be Wahabbi affiliated but Muslims are quickly held responsible. Christians fighting back & fleeing when it is actually entirely the way. People are killed over accusations that they're Muslim (with 80 different ethnic groups, there isn't a convenient way to sort the Muslims sort.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:28 PM

2. I'm pretty sure these were not "true christians", otherwise

 

they would not be killing innocent people, as christianity is a religion of peace, just like islam, another religion of peace. Just like those ISIS fuckers who beheaded 21 coptic christians this weekend are obviously not "true muslims". And on and on and on in a clusterfuck of circular reasoning by the religiously privileged to exempt their awful religious ideologies from critical examination.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:48 PM

4. Yes, but were they "True Scotsmen?"

All kidding aside.

Such crimes are a human failing, not simply a religious one.

Under Stalin, between 34 and 50 million were sent to their deaths, a couple of million under Pol Pot.

A certain totalitarian frame of mind, megalomania, and a fundamentalist mindset are necessary. But it doesn't have to be about religion, though it can and does happen in any religon when the wrong people use it.

My concern here was that this has receive almost no mention the news. Boko Haram has received more, but even they have not engendered nearly the amount of ink and pixels that have been spelled over ISIS and Europe.

Anybody can stoop to these types of crimes, but the world doesn't seem to give a damn if it happens in places like Africa.



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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #2)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:56 PM

7. Frustrating, isn't it, to try to argue against Obama's logic and analysis?

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:42 PM

3. Just for clarity, sounds like this has gone both ways.

From the article linked:

"Christians have also been victims of violence, targeted by Muslims in this complex communal conflict that U.N. and humanitarian officials fear could implode into genocide. Several hundred thousand Christians remain in crowded, squalid camps, unable or too afraid to return home.

But attacks on Muslims in particular are intensifying, aid workers said.

Djotodia’s departure weakened the former Muslim rebels, known as Seleka, who carried out deadly attacks on Christians after they grabbed power in March, prompting the birth of Christian militias called the anti-balaka, or “anti-machete” in the local Sango language. The armed vigilantes have used the power vacuum to step up assaults on Muslims."

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Response to bighart (Reply #3)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:07 PM

8. The violence in Iraq and Syria has gone both ways stretch back for years

Just more along religious sects. Sunnis are victims of Shia militias and even elected Sunni officials were victims of the former Iraqi Prime Minister Al-Maliki. ISIS offers a protection but also brutalizes Shia & other religious civilian populations. Tit-for-tat kidnapping by the Shia & Sunni militias go back years

Aside from from kidnapped Westerners which IS publicly records their brutality, Muslims have been killed. aside from ISIS there are numerous militias from the main 3 religions all fighting in opposition against the Assad regime and each other. US has allied & support Kurdish militias as well as the Sunni dominated Free Syrian Army.

Iran, Russia, Iraq, and for some reason North Korea hitched their wagons to Shia militias. Russia has also lent its support to the Assad regime, you basically have a mess where allies aid rivals.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:52 PM

6. Major human rights violations have also took place in Burma

They're among they leading violators but for some reason the world class human rights violator Assad is largely ignored by the media.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #6)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:27 PM

11. Lots of ignored human rights violators to go around, a lot of them "marched" in Paris..and then?

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Response to Fred Sanders (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:37 PM

12. Certainly there is a question when picking and choose which one to hype

If it pertains to the Southwest Asia, usually the enlist the support of the human right violators of the Arabian Peninsulia to help depending on what it is given there is a lot of enemy of my enemy type of shit going on. Syria has it all, including a world class human rights violators in charge but you wouldn't know it based on the impression of this selective focusing, you'd think ISIS is the only one doing this.

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Response to Agnosticsherbet (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 03:56 PM

18. Update (since even Wikipedia doesn't cover this): UN declares it is ethnic cleansing of Muslims

Ethnic Cleansing In Central African Republic, No Genocide: UN Inquiry

By Reuters on January 08 2015 10:02 PM

Christian militia in Central African Republic have carried out ethnic cleansing of the Muslim population during the country's ongoing civil war, but there is no proof there was genocidal intent, a United Nations commission of inquiry has determined.

The final report of the inquiry, which was submitted to the U.N. Security Council on Dec. 19, said up to 6,000 people had been killed though it "considers that such estimates fail to capture the full magnitude of the killings that occurred."
...
"Thousands of people died as a result of the conflict. Human rights violations and abuses were committed by all parties. The Seleka coalition and the anti-balaka are also responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity," the inquiry said.

"Although the commission cannot conclude that there was genocide, ethnic cleansing of the Muslim population by the anti-balaka constitutes a crime against humanity," it found.

http://www.ibtimes.com/ethnic-cleansing-central-african-republic-no-genocide-un-inquiry-1778322

Muslims Still 'Vulnerable' in CAR, Warns Ban

The U.N.'s top official says more peacekeepers are needed in the Central African Republic to protect the Muslim population.

Over 1000 more international peacekeepers are urgently needed in the Central African Republic (CAR), United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said Thursday.

"The security situation remains volatile and clashes between anti-Balaka and ex-Seleka elements continue, while criminal activities aimed at, among other things, controlling the country's natural resources are increasing," Ban wrote in a letter to the U.N. Security Council (UNSC).

According to Ban, despite ongoing peacekeeping efforts, “pockets of vulnerable Muslim communities remain under nearly constant threat and in dire humanitarian conditions.”

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Muslims-Still-Vulnerable-in-CAR-Warns-Ban-20150207-0002.html

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