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Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:00 AM

 

Is religion a clear and present danger?

Boko Haram, ISIS, Chinese western province, Al Qaeda, Chechnya, regional problems?

But Paris, then Copenhagen? Over freedom of speech? Freedom of cartoons?

Yes, terrorists are extremists, and a majority of muslims are peace loving individuals.

But extremists are enabled by the majority which agrees the 'Holy" Book can't be amended.


Is it time -for peace sake- to realize religions are not sacred?


The cartoonist and the drawing the Copenhagen shooter was trying to suppress:

98 replies, 5890 views

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Arrow 98 replies Author Time Post
Reply Is religion a clear and present danger? (Original post)
Albertoo Feb 2015 OP
TexasProgresive Feb 2015 #1
Albertoo Feb 2015 #4
TexasProgresive Feb 2015 #5
RKP5637 Feb 2015 #51
Panich52 Feb 2015 #2
Albertoo Feb 2015 #3
TexasProgresive Feb 2015 #6
Albertoo Feb 2015 #7
TexasProgresive Feb 2015 #11
haikugal Feb 2015 #30
misternormal Feb 2015 #54
Panich52 Feb 2015 #15
madokie Feb 2015 #8
RKP5637 Feb 2015 #56
meow2u3 Feb 2015 #9
Trillo Feb 2015 #10
Nobel_Twaddle_III Feb 2015 #76
jwirr Feb 2015 #12
CJCRANE Feb 2015 #13
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #14
hifiguy Feb 2015 #17
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #18
hifiguy Feb 2015 #19
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #21
Albertoo Feb 2015 #25
Post removed Feb 2015 #45
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #48
misternormal Feb 2015 #57
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #58
hifiguy Feb 2015 #16
former9thward Feb 2015 #20
onenote Feb 2015 #22
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #24
guillaumeb Feb 2015 #55
cleanhippie Feb 2015 #75
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #90
cleanhippie Feb 2015 #93
Albertoo Feb 2015 #27
onenote Feb 2015 #31
Jamaal510 Feb 2015 #78
Albertoo Feb 2015 #80
onenote Feb 2015 #83
Albertoo Feb 2015 #84
onenote Feb 2015 #92
Albertoo Feb 2015 #95
Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #42
Albertoo Feb 2015 #79
William769 Feb 2015 #23
Albertoo Feb 2015 #28
LanternWaste Feb 2015 #34
Orrex Feb 2015 #41
onenote Feb 2015 #43
cleanhippie Feb 2015 #40
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #49
mike_c Feb 2015 #61
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #62
mike_c Feb 2015 #64
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #65
cleanhippie Feb 2015 #73
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #91
cleanhippie Feb 2015 #94
Nuclear Unicorn Feb 2015 #88
Yorktown Feb 2015 #89
shenmue Feb 2015 #26
Albertoo Feb 2015 #29
Arugula Latte Feb 2015 #50
RKP5637 Feb 2015 #70
erstickendarauf Feb 2015 #32
HereSince1628 Feb 2015 #36
cordelia Feb 2015 #33
Ykcutnek Feb 2015 #35
cleanhippie Feb 2015 #37
onenote Feb 2015 #46
cleanhippie Feb 2015 #72
Orrex Feb 2015 #38
CJCRANE Feb 2015 #39
Augustus Feb 2015 #44
onenote Feb 2015 #47
RKP5637 Feb 2015 #52
onenote Feb 2015 #53
RKP5637 Feb 2015 #59
Brigid Feb 2015 #60
H2O Man Feb 2015 #63
seveneyes Feb 2015 #66
Albertoo Feb 2015 #86
Yo_Mama Feb 2015 #67
uppityperson Feb 2015 #68
Jenoch Feb 2015 #69
Jamastiene Feb 2015 #71
cleanhippie Feb 2015 #74
Jamaal510 Feb 2015 #77
el_bryanto Feb 2015 #96
Albertoo Feb 2015 #81
treestar Feb 2015 #82
Albertoo Feb 2015 #85
B Calm Feb 2015 #87
Orsino Feb 2015 #97
Albertoo Feb 2015 #98

Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:32 AM

1. If that give some sort of comfort - believe it.

Take your magic wand and eliminate all religions and some people will still commit heinous acts-they will just rationalize their actions in new and inventive ways. Such is the nature of the beast that is us. One day we may evolve past this but I don't see it coming soon.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #1)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:43 AM

4. true. But nationalism and religion are the main culprits.

 

Now that Communism is dead.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:14 AM

5. There you go.

family "honor", tribalism, nationalism, greed, desire for power over others - this list can go on and on. Violent acts on the part of religion is usually tied to one or more of the above. It is just an excuse to kill and maim.

So do you have a solution for curing humanity's penchant for killing each other? How would you go about it other than laying the blame at the feet of religion?

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #1)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 05:57 PM

51. Quite true! There would be a substitute and just as bad or worse IMO. Humans might

be advancing technologically, but sociologically there's a long way to go.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:37 AM

2. Religions have only ever been sacred to their followers

Blasphemy laws are only passed when a country has a dominant, influential religion. They go farther than 'hate speech' restrictions.

It's always puzzled me that believers are so afraid of hearing disparaging remarks about their religious system -- is their deity so frail?

BTW, this topic will prob get booted from Gen Disc...

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Response to Panich52 (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 10:42 AM

3. Topic booted? Clear & present dangers would be swept under the rug.

 

BTW, this topic will prob get booted from Gen Disc...


That would be frightening.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:17 AM

6. From: "What can and cannot be posted in the General Discussion forum"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025307978
Threads about the existence/non-existence of God, threads discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of religion in general, and threads discussing the truth/untruth of religious dogma are not permitted under normal circumstances and should be posted under Religion.

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:23 AM

7. Is it wrong to question rules?

 

Nowadays, religion(s) should be a general discussion.

IMHO.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 01:13 PM

11. Take that up with the forum hosts

It's not for you to decide what goes where. The rules are there for a reason. If you don't like them you might try Discussionist or Fr**R******c
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=about&forum=1002

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:38 AM

30. Wow....

Love it or leave it....where have I heard that before?

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #11)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:03 PM

54. Possibly True...

Hoever the ability to say and do pretty much as we like was one of the most obvious
by products of our "Revolution" against British Rule. And you can bet your Bonnie
Biscuits that they questioned a whole lot of rules. That's why we live in a society that
is supposed to look at, and question rules from time to time, revising them, and shaping
them to what is happening in the present.

There... 'nuff said.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #3)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 07:06 PM

15. I was just thinking of 'no religion' guidelines. Booted may be too strong. How abt 'transferred'?

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:25 AM

8. I'm a lot happier since I lost mine

no internal conflicts to worry with. Oh, I'm still the same person, I get up and work around the house, sometimes cook. Sometimes just lay around an listen to music. I still respect others right to be themselves as long as they leave me alone, providing I'm not doing something that annoys them and on and on.
I was born into religion and was baptized before I got out of grade school but at about the ripe young age of 14 I realized that religion was the root of all evil and have been a much happier person ever since. I say to each his/her own but for me leave me out of the religious bull.

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Response to madokie (Reply #8)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:05 PM

56. Same here! Most of what I see in religion is bigotry and hatred toward others. Religion is just

about politics, domination and persecution, and generally blind adherence to beliefs. It's a club, and often a club of hatred.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:49 AM

9. Violent extremism is a clear and present danger

Violent extremists often use religion as an excuse, or even a justification, to maim and kill anyone who doesn't kowtow to their twisted idea of religion.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 11:54 AM

10. Does it say, "ISLAM means human and animal rights"?

Am I reading the cartoon correctly?
Last time I checked, humans are animals, humans are in the scientific Kingdom: Animalia

So, they took offense at the "ISLAM" portion of the phrase?

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Response to Trillo (Reply #10)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 01:39 AM

76. no the issue was more likely the profit's head on the sheep

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 01:22 PM

12. In this instance I would have to answer no. But if you had said are religious fanatics dangerous I

would answer yes.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 01:25 PM

13. It's more about the funding and propagation of the fundie ideology.

Our superiors are content to let that continue (or at least not make an all out effort to tackle it) so this will be with us for a while.

In the meantime we'll require more surveillance and more intervention in the ME which will inspire more to take up the extreme ideology, which will require more surveillance and more intervention in response...

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 01:25 PM

14. So what would you say to religious DUers? nt

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 07:18 PM

17. I would respectfully suggest that they read

 

Victor Stenger's "God - The Failed Hypothesis" which refutes all of the reasons people usually offer for why they believe in the supernatural, including why there is "something" and not "nothing" and how this does not contradict what is known about physics.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 07:47 PM

18. You aren't the writer of the OP - but I gather that if you want to do things respectfully

You don't want to treat religion as a clear and present danger?

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 07:51 PM

19. I think religion is a clear and present danger

 

but I believe in convincing people of the truth with logic if at all possible.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 07:52 PM

21. And if a believe reads that book and says "Well I'm unconvinced - I continue to have faith in God."

What do you recommend in that case?

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #18)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:09 AM

25. People deserve respect, not ideologies

 

Ideologies of all kinds and shapes are debated, critiqued.

Religions are ideologies which can be debated, critiqued.

Religions do not deserve more respect than any other ideologies.

Especially when Holy Books are more violent than Mein Kampf.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #14)


Response to Post removed (Reply #45)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 05:45 PM

48. Where might one seek help for delusions?

And what if a religious DUer, like me for example, says "I don't choose to accept your patronizing bulllshit, but I'm gong to continue living and believing as I choose to."

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #14)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:07 PM

57. What I would say is:

I will continue to believe as I do, and you may believe as you do. If we can't come to terms with that,
Then have a nice life, and I hope you end up where you think you will.

Peace be with you.

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Response to misternormal (Reply #57)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:09 PM

58. Nods - that's the best response I would think. nt

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 07:15 PM

16. It is.

 

As are nationalism and greed. As a species we must leave them behind or we will exterminate ourselves in their names.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 07:52 PM

20. I would rather leave Marxists behind.

No offence. Just those who have killed hundreds of millions in their name.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 07:52 PM

22. Since this is a board that focuses on politics

I'm curious whether you think it will help the Democratic Party to tell three of its most important constituencies -- African-Americans, Latinos, and Jews--that their religious beliefs are (and by extension make them) a "clear and present danger"?

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Response to onenote (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 08:11 PM

24. Hard to argue with that logic; but then again many of the anti-theists

have a hard time conceptualizing of a person who is both liberal/leftist and a believer. They either assume they are faking their belief (as they often do about MLK) or they assume they aren't really liberal/leftist (as they usually do towards DU Believers).

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #24)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:04 PM

55. thank you for that point.

My beliefs are what inspire me to keep struggling. Have been a union member for 40 years, a union representative for 34 years, a socialist for longer. I feel that my actions and my political beliefs are fully consistent with my beliefs.

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #24)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 01:30 AM

75. Do you just make this up as you go along?

"many of the anti-theists have a hard time conceptualizing of a person who is both liberal/leftist and a believer."


Just where do you get this from? You have enagaged many non-believers in the Religion Group and talked about this exact topic, and been shown that what you posted simply isn't true.


"They either assume they are faking their belief (as they often do about MLK) or they assume they aren't really liberal/leftist (as they usually do towards DU Believers)."



There's only one person making assumptions here. And childish one's at that.



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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #75)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 09:49 AM

90. I am talking about Anti-theists not non-believers.

The two groups aren't equivalent despite your and others attempts to conflate them. And I'd say I am 100% accurate. Don't worry - everybody has blind spots.

And really you've never seen the argument that MLK wasn't a real believer? Come on.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #90)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 11:40 AM

93. So, just making it up.

Got it.

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Response to onenote (Reply #22)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:13 AM

27. 'Respect' for religions actually helps Republicans.

 

The assumption religions should not be critiqued is signing a blank check to Republicans.

Any mocking of Bachmann's beliefs in a rapture would be silenced.

The fact Palin would love to ban abortion would even make sense.

There must be a verse in the Bible that can be made to support her position.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 08:31 AM

31. One of the less intelligent things I seen posted here in a while.

Respect for people helps Democrats. Period.

BTW, you apparently are unaware that over 80 percent of the African-American population believes in the existence of God and believes in miracles and in angels and demons? (Pew Research poll). I haven't seen specific numbers about a belief in the rapture, but its probably safe to say that it is pretty high among African Americans. You think that mocking African-American church-goers is a good idea? You think that alienating African-American church leaders is a good idea?

It is possible to mock Bachmann's policy choices without bringing religion into it.

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Response to onenote (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 04:32 AM

78. Agreed, and

speaking of Bachmann, it would be absurd to even include her in the same conversation as other Christians like Rev. Al Sharpton and Rev. Barber of North Carolina. Both sides have fought for totally different agendas--one of which has been shown countless times to be the antithesis to Jesus's teachings. All Bachmann has done is misinterpret her religion to her political advantage. To people like her, religion is merely a tool.

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Response to onenote (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:11 AM

80. I don't think much of your answer either

 

While you graciously write
One of the less intelligent things I seen posted here in a while.


you follow up by a perfect non sequitur.
Respect for people helps Democrats. Period.


My OP states very clearly that my point is about religion in general,
and, current events commanding, about Islam in particular. As ideologies.

When an ideology makes people think blasphemers should be killed (Paris, Copenhagen),
I dare venture the humble point that that ideology has a pproblem.

If one must respect all ideologies because not doing so would 'disrespect' their followers,
then, by that token, one should also respect nazism.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #80)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 06:20 AM

83. apparently you are under the misimpression that Nazism is a religion

Simple logical concept for you:

A religion may be an ideology. But not all ideologies are religions.

The comment you made in this subthread "respect for religion actually helps Republicans" is nonsense. If you really believe that as a political strategy it would be helpful to Democrats to publicly disrespect "religion" one can only pray (irony) that you never get involved in campaign strategy for any Democratic candidate.

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Response to onenote (Reply #83)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:46 AM

84. Please, read and understand what I post before answering

 

I wrote
If one must respect all ideologies because not doing so would 'disrespect' their followers,
then, by that token, one should also respect nazism.

you write
apparently you are under the misimpression that Nazism is a religion

Simple logical concept for you: your straw man tactics do not interest me.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #84)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 10:41 AM

92. The tactic of calling something a straw man

when you don't want to respond to the point -- namely that your statement that "respecting religion helps Republicans" is nonsense -- is a useful straw man on your part.

We're done.

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Response to onenote (Reply #92)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 11:43 AM

95. Please learn what a straw man argument tactic is.

 

You obviously do not know/understand what it refers to.

We're done.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:14 PM

42. "The assumption religions should not be critiqued..."

Clear and present dangers aren't dealt with by critique, they're eliminated.

Is religion a thing to be debated or is it a clear and present danger? I can't help but think you've swerved into hyperbole in your OP.

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Response to onenote (Reply #22)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:00 AM

79. Well, defense from the dangers of religion is politics now

 

Religion now is a danger. Currently, Islam is now one (9/11, 7/7, Paris, Copenhagen)

To brush the question aside is to have an absence of policies in this regard.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Sun Feb 15, 2015, 07:53 PM

23. Religion isn't, Religious fanatics are.

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Response to William769 (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:14 AM

28. Religions breed fanaticism.

 

Who knows, without a secular Constitution, witch burning might still be OK?

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 09:45 AM

34. Every imaginary construct breeds fanaticism.

Politics breed fanaticism. Nations breed fanaticism. Philosophies breed fanaticism. Economics breed fanaticism. Every imaginary construct breeds fanaticism.

Unless one holds one fanatic to a different standard than another fanatic, consistency would dictate that politics, philosophy, economics and nationalism, in and of themselves, are also clear and present dangers...

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #34)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:01 PM

41. Not true

Unless one holds one fanatic to a different standard than another fanatic...
It is entirely reasonable to hold different fanatics to different standards based, among other things, on their ability and opportunity to subjugate others.

And, since fanatics differ widely in their potential to inflict harm or coercion, it's appropriate to tailor one's response to match different fanatacisms as they're addressed.

For instance, a fanatical nationalist with a daddy-fueled revenge fantasy fueled by the potential for oil profits is substantially more dangerous than a fanatical book organizer working in the basement of the stacks at the local library.

In short. you're painting with too broad a brush, and you over-simplify the real and particular dangers that fanaticism can represent.


Quick--call someone a half-wit and pretend that you've proven your point!

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 12:48 PM

43. So you believe there is a link between the Constitution and the end of witch burning.

Let's analyze that idea.

First, we'll start with the fact, apparently unknown to you, that witches weren't burned in the colonies. During a period of time in the mid/late 17th Century, around 3 dozen people were hung for being witches (one was kileed by being crushed).

Second, two-thirds of the executions took place over a period of around a year and a half in 1692-93 in what has been fairly described as an incident of mass hysteria. No one was executed after 1693, which is over 90 years before the Constitution was drafted.

Third, there was in fairly short order a great deal of remorse about the witch trials and executions. By 1711, legislation reversing the convictions and authorizing compensation for the families of those executed was enacted.

Fourth, trials and executions of witches (including some witch burnings) also took place in other countries. That practice generally ceased by the mid-17th Century, often at the urging of clergy. Those countries, it should go without saying, aren't governed by a constitution comparable the US Constitution.


Under the circumstances, it's pretty clear that the link you see between the US Constitution and the cessation of witch burning (which didn't actually occur) doesn't stand up to rational analysis.

Like your OP.

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Response to William769 (Reply #23)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 11:59 AM

40. Define fanatic.

Would that include those that believe absurd things, like people coming back to life?


Definition of FANATIC
: marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion


Sounds pretty fanatical to me.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #40)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 05:46 PM

49. So any Christian who believes in the resurrection is a fanatic

by your definition? That's a pretty wide swath.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #49)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:16 PM

61. please explain how an uncritical belief in the reanimation of dead bodies isn't "fanatical..."

I believe that experiment has been performed many billions of times, and no unambiguously dead body has ever spontaneously reanimated, except in imagination and very unlikely anecdote. Just how many thoroughly dead corpses does it take to lay the myth of reanimation to rest? A billion? Ten billion? A trillion? That many and more have died and stayed dead, so yes, I think belief in resurrection is pretty fanatical. If not, how many more really dead bodies staying dead will it take?

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Response to mike_c (Reply #61)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:23 PM

62. Can a belief really be fanatical if it's shared by ~ 77% of Americans?

As of 2012 that was the percentage of self described Christians in the United States. Of course some percentage of those might not actually believe in the resurrection.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #62)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:31 PM

64. the number of people who share a belief has no bearing at all...

...on its truth or falsehood. But wholesale, uncritical acceptance of any belief in the face of overwhelming real evidence to the contrary is always "fanatical."

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Response to mike_c (Reply #64)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:33 PM

65. Nods - we should get you a speech at the Democratic Convention

It seems, though, that you are under the mistaken impression that Christians believe that most people rise from their graves after three days - that's not accurate as it turns out.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #65)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 01:19 AM

73. That's just sad.

You just had to go and make it personal.


You just had to be insulting.


You just had to intentionally mischaracterize.


Because you had nothing else left.


And that's just sad.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #73)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 09:50 AM

91. You are right that there is something sad about this discussion.

But I feel fine.

Bryant

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Response to el_bryanto (Reply #91)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 11:40 AM

94. Oh, I'm sure you do.

Now.

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Response to mike_c (Reply #61)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 08:26 AM

88. You aren't being fair in the restatement of the hypothesis.

First, it's resurrection, not reanimation.

Second, Jesus was supposed to be God the Son, the Creator of all Life and his resurrection is supposed to have been the overtaking of death. H. P Lovecraft posited, of sorts, what it would mean if "e'en Death may die" but that's merely transposing the proposition, "What if Life Itself were to die?" Is ours a dualist existence where Life and Death are equal in force and necessity? Does one hold primacy over the other? If so, which one?

Third, where in the NT was it stated that the resurrection of others was to be observed elsewhere within the word as it now stands? You're saying, "It has happened again so the NT is bunk." Except the NT hasn't said it happened again. The NT says, "we saw it happen once, we are promised it shall be so with us in some future time."

Fourth, you also stake your argument on the "if it ain't seen, it ain't happened" position. How much of science would be deemed fanatical if that particular standard were universally held? Good-bye theoretical physics, you were fun while you lasted.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #88)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 08:52 AM

89. Jesus was supposed to be God the Son?

 

It's not even clear the Gospels meant it that way.

At the time, 'son of God' also meant a human. Period.

Anyway, exegesis of totally unsourced and unreliable texts isn't fruitful.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:10 AM

26. Yeah, we're all the same



Want some paint to go with your broad brush?

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Response to shenmue (Reply #26)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:22 AM

29. Religions display different degrees of dangerosity

 

But, as of today:
Islam: probably the most virulent
Judaism: religiously motivated settlements fanning regional fire
Catholics: campaigns in Africa against vaccinations or condoms
Hinduism: on aggressive defensive mode
Buddhism: cf Burma, Sri Lanka

The thin brush says all is not well with religion.
And it's not politically motivared, it's that religions are political platforms.

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Response to Albertoo (Reply #29)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 05:51 PM

50. I'd add:

 

Evangelical Protestants -- Spreading anti-gay hate, including calling for the death penalty for homosexuality, in Africa; stoking and spreading the extreme anti-gay movement in Russia.

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Response to Arugula Latte (Reply #50)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:47 PM

70. Yep, they are hateful beings, spreading hatred for no valid reason. n/t

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 09:06 AM

32. ALL Religions have violent extremists within their ranks

 

even in America, pretty unfair and disingenuous to limit it to a few sects of one religion.

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Response to erstickendarauf (Reply #32)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 10:36 AM

36. Thanks for this, an appeal to shared fallibility of humanity

I get that...

but, in addressing the problem of too narrow a focus , you created an excellent example of the -argumentum ad populum- fallacy, everybody is doing it aka 'the bandwagon'.

And you've used it in a common form, to diffuse the criticism of a particular thing by suggesting that thing is a universal property.

Getting around this fallacy is often possible by conditioning the statement so it isn't a universal...

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 09:28 AM

33. No

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 09:48 AM

35. My philosophy is that everything is a danger in excess. EOT

 

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 11:09 AM

37. The clear and present danger is the coddling of those that choose faith over reason.

The moment we stop doing that is the moment the we begin to prevail over that danger.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #37)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 03:13 PM

46. So what is your solution?

Do you propose to lead a squadron of like-minded DUers into African-American churches to tell them that they shouldn't be "coddled" anymore? Do you suggest having a "no coddling" of religion plank added to the Democratic Party platform?

How do you think that would work out?

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Response to onenote (Reply #46)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 01:14 AM

72. I thought I was clear in my implication.

But leading anyone anywhere isn't it, so perhaps to some, inference isn't their strong suit.


I'd recommend starting with the definition of coddle, then try work it out from there.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 11:28 AM

38. Religious belief demands belief in magical thinking...

which is ultimately incompatible with reason.

Religion doesn't necessarily breed extremism, but it can train its believers to accept harmful claims put forth without real evidence to back them up.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 11:39 AM

39. I often feel as if people have amnesia of the 20th century

and have forgotten all the various left wing and right wing political movements that ravaged the world during that time.

Not to mention that radical islam was created in the 80s specifically to fight communism and socialism.

Whatever we create to fight the Isis freaks, we'll probably be fighting that in a few years' time and forgotten all about where it came from.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 01:52 PM

44. Religion is willful ignorance

 

It is the utmost scourge of human kind, and is going to lead to our complete destruction if we continue on this dangerous path.

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Response to Augustus (Reply #44)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 03:28 PM

47. And yet, despite religion of one sort or another having been part of life

for time immemorial, it hasn't yet led to "our complete destruction."

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 05:59 PM

52. Yes IMO! n/t

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #52)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:02 PM

53. So what do you propose doing about it

A "clear and present danger" isn't something to be ignored. So what is your proposal for driving religion from America (and the world).

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Response to onenote (Reply #53)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:11 PM

59. It's an observation. Religion will never be gone, but recognition for what it often is

IMO is important. Religion is another form of politics. Far too many wear blinders, choosing not to recognize what their religion is about. IMO the internet, for one example, exposes many to perhaps do introspection.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:12 PM

60. Yeah, my garden-variety Methodist church is a real threat.

Running a soup kitchen, hosting a farmer's market in the summer, holding Bible studies, youth group meetings, and all.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:23 PM

63. Is foolishness?

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:39 PM

66. Present danger yes. Not clear enough to some

 

Too many people default to using Gods and Devils to define the good and bad things that exist when they can't comprehend the reality of some situations.

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Response to seveneyes (Reply #66)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:52 AM

86. And a danger visibly not clear enough to some bystanders

 

as clearly illustrated by some answers to this thread.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:45 PM

67. No. n/t

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:45 PM

68. No. Fundamentalism, extremism, prejudging, bigotry, those are the dangers.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 06:47 PM

69. Not always.

 

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Mon Feb 16, 2015, 08:10 PM

71. It is the deranged minds that twist what religions say to justify their own atrocities.

It is the depravity of those human minds who are grasping at any excuse to commit acts of terrorism/violence that is the clear and present danger.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #71)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 01:21 AM

74. Is it deranged minds that twist religion?

Or is it religion that twists deranged minds?



I think the stronger argument rests with the latter.


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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #74)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 04:16 AM

77. Wouldn't one's mind

already be twisted if they happened to be deranged, or am I misunderstanding something? Because the definition of "deranged" is to be insane.

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Response to Jamaal510 (Reply #77)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 12:16 PM

96. Yep - that's the argument - Religion makes people insane.

I guess that's why it's a clear and present danger.

Bryant

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #71)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:13 AM

81. It is the TEXTS of the Torah and Quran that command killings

 

Stonings and beheadings being the preferred methods recommanded by the books.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 05:53 AM

82. If it is a danger, then I suppose something must be

done to put it down, no? Should we attack the religious people before they cause damage?

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Response to treestar (Reply #82)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:51 AM

85. Don't attack people, but de-fang ideologies.

 

One security threat is the literalist reading of sacred text; the Quran in recent news.

Some think tanks like Quillian offer to offer counter-narratives to the literalist one.

Or, to re-word your sentence, we should attack radical ideologies before they cause damage.

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 07:52 AM

87. Yes, especially if you happen to be an abortion doctor.

 

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Response to Albertoo (Original post)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 12:23 PM

97. A lone psychotic or a mob that can be cajoled or bullied into professing a belief in the invisible...

...may become a tool of the unscrupulous. That is the entirety of the danger.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #97)

Tue Feb 17, 2015, 01:50 PM

98. ++

 

A lone psychotic or a mob that can be cajoled or bullied into professing a belief in the invisible..may become a tool of the unscrupulous. That is the entirety of the danger.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

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