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Mon Jan 26, 2015, 05:38 PM

If Bernie Sanders Runs For President, It Won’t Be as an Independent: “I will not be a spoiler”

Naturally, “Will you run for president in 2016?” was the first question DFA Executive Director Charles Chamberlain asked Sanders. Though not definitive, his answer was enough to leave these activists hopeful.

“I am giving very serious consideration to it, but before you make a decision of that magnitude, … you have to make sure that you can do it well,” Sanders said. “So what we are doing is reaching out to folks all over this country trying to determine whether or not we can put the grassroots organization together that we need.”

Sanders knows he will have to rely on grassroots mobilization to have a fighting chance at being elected, because his campaign will take on every monied interest. “If I run, we’ll be taking on the billionaire class,” he said. “That’s Wall Street, the drug companies, the military industrial complex.”

To the dismay some idealists, Sanders rejected the idea of running for president as an independent. “No matter what I do, I will not be a spoiler,” Sanders said. “I will not play that role in helping to elect some right-wing Republican as President of the United States.”

http://inthesetimes.com/article/17572/bernie_sanders_president

Not a surprise, but it is nice to hear Bernie say it.

139 replies, 17473 views

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Arrow 139 replies Author Time Post
Reply If Bernie Sanders Runs For President, It Won’t Be as an Independent: “I will not be a spoiler” (Original post)
pampango Jan 2015 OP
sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #1
NorthCarolina Jan 2015 #103
George II Jan 2015 #122
sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #128
George II Jan 2015 #136
PoliticAverse Jan 2015 #2
LawDeeDah Jan 2015 #91
bvf Jan 2015 #106
totodeinhere Jan 2015 #107
PoliticAverse Jan 2015 #112
winter is coming Jan 2015 #138
totodeinhere Jan 2015 #139
99th_Monkey Jan 2015 #3
TheNutcracker Jan 2015 #4
Jefferson23 Jan 2015 #5
demigoddess Jan 2015 #6
Cha Jan 2015 #7
Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2015 #8
tokenlib Jan 2015 #9
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #10
JDPriestly Jan 2015 #18
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #21
Adrahil Jan 2015 #23
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #24
Adrahil Jan 2015 #26
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #28
Adrahil Jan 2015 #31
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #33
thesquanderer Jan 2015 #97
winter is coming Jan 2015 #34
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #36
winter is coming Jan 2015 #38
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #40
winter is coming Jan 2015 #41
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #42
Faryn Balyncd Jan 2015 #76
JonLP24 Jan 2015 #82
Renew Deal Jan 2015 #45
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #47
Renew Deal Jan 2015 #51
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #52
Renew Deal Jan 2015 #55
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #56
Renew Deal Jan 2015 #58
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #60
JonLP24 Jan 2015 #83
Renew Deal Jan 2015 #84
JonLP24 Jan 2015 #86
Renew Deal Jan 2015 #87
JonLP24 Jan 2015 #88
JonLP24 Jan 2015 #81
JDPriestly Jan 2015 #53
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #54
JDPriestly Jan 2015 #89
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #90
daleanime Jan 2015 #35
Renew Deal Jan 2015 #44
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #57
Renew Deal Jan 2015 #59
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #61
Faryn Balyncd Jan 2015 #75
LawDeeDah Jan 2015 #78
JonLP24 Jan 2015 #80
LondonReign2 Jan 2015 #100
BeanMusical Jan 2015 #111
wyldwolf Jan 2015 #11
bigwillq Jan 2015 #12
hopemountain Jan 2015 #13
KamaAina Jan 2015 #14
NorthCarolina Jan 2015 #104
KamaAina Jan 2015 #105
nxylas Jan 2015 #129
NorthCarolina Jan 2015 #130
whatthehey Jan 2015 #135
mountain grammy Jan 2015 #15
daleanime Jan 2015 #37
Stardust Jan 2015 #124
mountain grammy Jan 2015 #125
PDittie Jan 2015 #16
MoonchildCA Jan 2015 #19
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #27
PDittie Jan 2015 #118
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #25
MoonchildCA Jan 2015 #29
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #30
MoonchildCA Jan 2015 #43
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #48
djean111 Jan 2015 #63
NYC Liberal Jan 2015 #74
Art_from_Ark Jan 2015 #85
winter is coming Jan 2015 #39
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #50
djean111 Jan 2015 #64
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #65
djean111 Jan 2015 #66
VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #67
djean111 Jan 2015 #94
TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #113
Autumn Jan 2015 #123
Autumn Jan 2015 #126
djean111 Jan 2015 #131
MissDeeds Jan 2015 #17
tabasco Jan 2015 #20
moondust Jan 2015 #22
Andy823 Jan 2015 #32
Zorra Jan 2015 #46
Jamaal510 Jan 2015 #49
hay rick Jan 2015 #62
Ramses Jan 2015 #70
Ramses Jan 2015 #68
winter is coming Jan 2015 #69
Ramses Jan 2015 #72
Buns_of_Fire Jan 2015 #93
UTUSN Jan 2015 #71
MissDeeds Jan 2015 #77
freshwest Jan 2015 #73
LawDeeDah Jan 2015 #79
madokie Jan 2015 #92
jtuck004 Jan 2015 #95
raouldukelives Jan 2015 #96
Enthusiast Jan 2015 #98
MineralMan Jan 2015 #99
Paka Jan 2015 #101
Duval Jan 2015 #102
totodeinhere Jan 2015 #108
fbc Jan 2015 #110
totodeinhere Jan 2015 #116
winter is coming Jan 2015 #120
nxylas Jan 2015 #132
stillwaiting Jan 2015 #133
fbc Jan 2015 #109
Beacool Jan 2015 #114
Cleita Jan 2015 #115
winter is coming Jan 2015 #121
totodeinhere Jan 2015 #137
LynneSin Jan 2015 #117
Autumn Jan 2015 #119
marble falls Jan 2015 #127
whatthehey Jan 2015 #134

Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 05:42 PM

1. Then here's the chance for Democrats to approach him and assure their backing if he decides to run

and THEY want to win. He's sending a message, let's see if the Dem leadership listens to the voters and to one of their favorite Senators this time.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 11:08 AM

103. I suspect the Third-Way contingent would work to kill his campaign from within

 

the party if he runs as a Democrat.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 06:08 PM

122. Shouldn't he be approaching the Democrats?

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Response to George II (Reply #122)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 11:52 PM

128. No, why should he? He is making it clear he is interested in running for the WH, he has now stated

he won't be running as third party.

He is a great candidate, has caucused with the Dems and speaks the language the people haven't been hearing from the Party Leadership, which is why they keep losing.

The Party needs him more than he needs them. And so do the voters.

So, it would be a very smart move to ask him to join the party and run as a Democrat.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #128)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 10:32 AM

136. The Democratic Party, i.e., Barack Obama, has won the last two Presidential elections, and...

....they currently have a double-digit leader in the polls for next year. If we're talking "Party", they would be better off with him as a member, but they don't "need" him. And if he has presidential aspirations, he most certainly needs the Democratic Party - he'll never win as an unaffiliated candidate.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 05:45 PM

2. Those paying attention realized he was never going to be another Nader. n/t

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 06:52 AM

91. Exactly. But that was a cheap reason to diss him because he is a threat to Hillary.

 

the whining about Warren and Sanders (and whoever is next on the list) is at a fevered pitch

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 12:49 PM

106. Good point.

 

Nader was just trying to make a name for himself in the political arena, IMO. Sanders envisions a better country and wouldn't knowingly do anything to the detriment of that vision.

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Response to PoliticAverse (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:12 PM

107. I don't know about that. As recently as September he was saying he could run as EITHER an

independent or a Democrat.

Famously independent Sen. Bernie Sanders says he may run for president in 2016, either as an independent or a Democrat. In an interview with NBC’s Meet the Press, Sanders insisted that “the issue is not Hillary,” but it seems clear a Sanders run could complicate Clinton’s path to the White House, considering there would be significant crossover in their supporters. Sanders says he’s going to Iowa to test the waters and analyze whether it makes more sense for him to run as an independent or a Democrat. (The bolding is mine.)

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/09/14/bernie_sanders_may_run_for_president_as_democrat.html

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #107)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:18 PM

112. I did see that, but I believe that come the actual election time

he would have told his supporters to vote for the Democratic nominee.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #107)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 07:28 PM

138. But, as has been discussed here before, he said in December 2013 that

he would not be a spoiler candidate. It's possible to run as a third party candidate during the primaries before dropping out and throwing your support to the Dem nominee.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #138)

Thu Jan 29, 2015, 03:35 PM

139. Unless he feels that he could actually win the general election as a third

party candidate. Then obviously he would not be a spoiler but a winner. I don't think it's likely but remember that for a while during the 1992 campaign Ross Perot was actually leading both Bush and Clinton in the polls.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 05:49 PM

3. Run Bernie Run! nt

 

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 05:49 PM

4. Go go go go Bernie Sanders!!!!! Run Bernie Run!

 

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 05:52 PM

5. +1. n/t

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:30 PM

6. glad to hear it! I know republicans would love to see

him run as an independent and siphon off votes from the dem candidate. It is the way the republicans have won in recent years.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:36 PM

7. I thought he was too smart for that..

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:36 PM

8. I wonder if, sometime in the near future, he and Hillary get together for a private conversation.

excited to root for Bernie. Grassroots is my name

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:44 PM

9. It wouldn't do any good...Hillary is Hillary...

Hillary can tint her statements with vague progressive language. But Hillary and Bill have a record that defines them. Do we support her "third way" "new Democrat" positions or not?
After trying to stop her in any way possible in the primaries, do we then come together and support her in the general election to stop an even worse Republican. The lesser of evils yet again.. It all seems so simple...

Hope Bernie runs to give me a choice in the primaries..

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:45 PM

10. the ONLY reason Bernie needs to become a Democrat....is....

 

M.O.N.E.Y.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:14 PM

18. I take Bernie at his word and am very happy to hear that if he runs (and I hope he does) he

will run as a Democrat, not as an Independent.

I think he does not want to be a Ralph Nader. He is sincerely interested in good government.

I really like and respect Bernie Sanders.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #18)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:34 PM

21. You take Bernie at his word? HOW does that negate what I just said?

 

WHY does he need to become a Democrat after all these years...other than their money?

If you take Bernie "at his word" he would never become a Democrat at all....its hypocrisy for him to do so!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:51 PM

23. He can't run in the primaries if he is not a Democrat.

 

And he should, IMO, run in the primaries.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #23)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:52 PM

24. He can run in his OWN primaries....

 

the Democratic Primaries....are to run to obtain the Democratic money to win....Get It?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #24)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:54 PM

26. Ummm... No...

 

Wtf would his own primaries be?

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #26)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:56 PM

28. Um yes....Indpendent Party he is currently in....

 

He has to become a Democrat ONLY because he cannot do it without their campaign money...that is all!

If he was so powerful without money...he wouldn't need us at all!

By the way....he currently polls only 4%

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:01 PM

31. He said he would not run as a spoiler...

 

That means he will not run in the generals. What would the point be of his "own" primary?

And what's wrong with him running in the Democratic primaries? I think he could voice a lot of legitimate concerns, though he has no chance of winning. 2016 is Hillary's to lose, I think.

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Response to Adrahil (Reply #31)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:04 PM

33. That is what I am trying to tell YOU....the ONLY reason he NEEDS the Democrats...is M.O.N.E.Y.

 

thats what they have that he doesn't!

Oh and he cannot run in the Democratic Primaries...UNLESS he becomes one....and after ALL these years not doing just that...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #33)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 09:46 AM

97. No, the main thing isn't the money...

The reason he can't run as an independent in the general is that, in a race of an independent against a dem and a repub, the ind has virtually zero percent chance of winning, and, as he said, could even end up being a spoiler, splitting the left vote, and handing the WH to a repub. Really, the only chance he has to win, small as it might be, is to BE the Democratic candidate rather than to have to compete against one. It's also the only way he avoids the risk of being a spoiler.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:05 PM

34. Perhaps you could tell us which positions he holds that are inconsistent with Dem policies. n/t

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #34)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:08 PM

36. Perhaps YOU could tell us how he can run in the Democratic Primaries without becoming a Democrat?

 

Have I ever said I had a problem with Bernies' policies?

thats where you and I are different. I am a Democrat....and I support Democrats....I don't have to trash others who might be the candidate. Even if that chance is slim. I have never said anything disparaging about Bernie or his positions. But I am a realist...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #36)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:14 PM

38. All he has to do is switch his formal affiliation to the Democratic Party.

I don't see that as a big deal, since none of the policies Sanders espouses should be in conflict with the Democratic platform and he has caucused with Dems for years. If he'd been a Republican and was still backing the sort of pro-corporate policies the GOP does, that would be a problem.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #38)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:15 PM

40. You don't see that as a big deal...however the ONLY reason to do that....is still M.O.N.E.Y.

 

it doesn't change that fact. He cannot win without it....you may not like that fact...but the fact remains.

and he STILL only polls at 4%....but we have a candidate that polls at 61% and trounces ALL Republicans by double digits....

Like I said...I AM a realist!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:18 PM

41. Actually, visibility would be a good reason.

Also, defanging the hysterical "OMG, he'll be another Nader!" crowd by not running as a third-party candidate would be another excellent reason.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #41)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:19 PM

42. "visibility"

 



What do you thinks brings visibility?

answer?

M.O.N.E.Y.!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #40)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:34 PM

76. Incorrect...The MAJOR reason to run as a Democrat is to NOT SPLIT THE VOTE, and to unify those that



...support Democratic values, which he consistently supports as well or better than most of the Democratic caucus.


To ignore these two realities, and repeated say the "only reason is M.O.N.E.Y", and to ignore the Senator's position that he will not run third party or independent, is definitely not "realist", as you put it.









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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #36)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 12:48 AM

82. How is that inconsistent with Bernie Sanders?

He supports Democrats too.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #28)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:40 PM

45. Ballot access is important too

You can't get elected if you aren't on the ballot.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #45)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:42 PM

47. Bottom line...you cannot get elected without money....

 

Perot got on the ticket didn't he?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:48 PM

51. Perot ran on his own line in the general election

Sanders wants to run in the Democratic primary. These are very different things.

Anyone can run on any line in November. But only Democrats can run in the primary in most states.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #51)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:49 PM

52. EXACTLY.....because BERNIE cannot raise the money...PERIOD!

 

the visibility Bernie needs...COSTS MONEY!

But that is okay....we have a candidate that polls at 61% and double digits against all Republicans! That appears to be the candidate that REAL Democrats already want!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:05 PM

55. Money and ballot access are not the same.

I found the law for NY because it is the one I am most familiar with.

§ 6–120. Designation and nomination; restrictions
1. A petition, except as otherwise herein provided, for the
purpose of designating any person as a candidate for party
nomination at a primary election shall be valid only if the
person so designated is an enrolled member of the party
referred to in said designating petition at the time of the filing
of the petition.

2. Except as provided in subdivisions three and four of this
section, no party designation or nomination shall be valid
unless the person so designated or nominated shall be an
enrolled member of the political party referred to in the
certificate of designation or nomination at the time of filing of
such certificate.

http://www.elections.ny.gov/NYSBOE/download/law/2014NYElectionLaw.pdf


Money doesn't solve this problem (but it can help in some cases).

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #55)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:07 PM

56. Yes my friend it takes MONEY......money to buy advertising....

 

visibility costs money....how much money do you think it will take to take it AWAY from the ACTUAL Democratic frontrunner who has nearly 2/3rds support already? (not to mention a TON of cash in the coffers)

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #56)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:08 PM

58. Bernie has no chance

O'Malley will win in a landslide before Bernie wins. But that's a different story.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #58)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:09 PM

60. That's called reality!

 

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #58)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 12:51 AM

83. I don't know why people feel O'Malley would be popular

He isn't, he just hits those "electable" subjective qualities which is what Hillary Clinton supporters said had more of than Obama who actually got unprecendented support. Bernie Sanders is far more popular than O'Malley than he is right now and there isn't even a primary yet. Hillary Clinton is different, I'd actually support her over O'Malley (who is actually just a lower profile career politician)

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #83)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:03 AM

84. If Hillary and Biden somehow don't run, voters will likely support O'Malley

I think he's the frontrunner with Webb behind. Hillary and Biden voters aren't going to Bernie. But of course, if they fall through, Warren would be forced to run.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #84)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:10 AM

86. Biden would probably be even more unpopular than O'Malley

and Webb? Wow. There is a certain reason why Bill Clinton went from being "slim to none" to being wildly popular and it wasn't triangulation. He was very likable, far from boring which defines those candidates you mention, communication ability to connect with the majority of voters who happen to be the same people Bernie Sanders is directly fighting for but not in the manipulative way the vast majority of other candidates do. He really means it which separates himself from the vast majority of other politicians that vast majority of Americans voter or non-voter already are is disillusioned with.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #86)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:16 AM

87. I saw a poll with Biden and without Hillary that had him in the lead

Not sure if he could hold it, but I think he would stay near the top in that kind of race.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #87)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:30 AM

88. Most of the people outside of Biden & Hillary are unknown to the American public

I'm not sure how unknown Obama was (outside of DU) because I was in the military 2005-2008 but I didn't even know who he was until the summer of 2008, the environment no cable TV which I hardly watched anyways, etc were all factors in not keeping me as political informed as I was before and since.

Also, my way of judging who would be more likely to different is entirely subjective as well but things like uncomfortable scandals in the past, losing the narrative, too many change in positions, etc are not conducive to winning. But there is a better way to describe what I'm saying. Which guy would you vote for in the video? Personally, I feel the impassioned support for things I also happen to support has a better chance than the waffling double speaker.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 12:47 AM

81. He doesn't belong to any political party

You go to the USA Democratic Socialist page they say they're an activist organization that supports the more progressive members of the Democratic Party.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #21)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:57 PM

53. Not for money. How much more moeny will he just because he has a D after his name?

People will either give him money or not.
I think he will change in order to get a chance to debate in the Democratic primaries. That means he has to have a certain level of support within the Democratic Party. I don't' think that Democrats like me want to vote Independent. I would rather not vote at all than vote something other than Democratic.
Bernie Sanders caucuses with Democrats all the time. Whey shouldn't he change his label?

I would very much like to see Bernie Sanders speak more and more to a national audience. I hope he runs. Anything can happen between now and 2016. Hillary is not the guaranteed win that some people think she is.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #53)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:04 PM

54. How much money do you think it takes to win an election?

 

an election where you are behind the frontrunner who IS a Democrat by nearly 60%???

A.L.O.T.!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #54)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:38 AM

89. How would changing parties give him more money?

He has to get the money no matter whether he runs as an Independent or as a Democrat.

Just being a Democrat does not get you money for your campaign when you run against another Democrat. Makes no sense to me. Please explain your reasoning.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #89)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 06:49 AM

90. because the Democratic party HAS it...geebus!

 

How can you be on DU and not know this???

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:07 PM

35. ........

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:39 PM

44. Actually, I'm not sure he can get on the ballot in some states without a party affiliation

NY being one of them.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #44)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:08 PM

57. Perot ran....

 

You would have to have enough support in those places too....4% is not going to cut it!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #57)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:09 PM

59. In the general election

Not in a major party primary.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #59)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:10 PM

61. because he didn't belong to one of the major parties...just like Bernie!

 

but what Perot did have? M.O.N.E.Y.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #61)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:18 PM

75. How can you possibly defend the statement that Sen. Sanders does "not belong in one of the major...




....parties"?


Do you also believe his supporters do not belong in one of the major parties?


Do you believe that his supporters should show, like Sen. Sanders, the principle and loyalty to values, to the Democratic Party, and to electing the best candidate to defeat the Republicans, by being non-belonging, silent non-members, who obediently keep mouths shut until November5, 2016, simply voting for the candidate who meets your criteria for belonging to a major party?















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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #10)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:49 PM

78. can Hillary run without money? can anyone?

 

do you spell M.O.N.E.Y. the same way for Hillary?

The reason Sanders is running as a Democrat is because he doesn't want to split the vote if he entered as an Independent. That is old news. Keep up.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 12:42 AM

80. Far from the only reason

Most people vote for either one of 2 parties. It wouldn't make sense to run as anything other than the 2 unless you don't care about being that unlikely to win.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 10:07 AM

100. *sniff sniff*

Smells like fear

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Response to LondonReign2 (Reply #100)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:55 PM

111. Lol!

It sure does.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:46 PM

11. Good man, Bernie. Thanks for refusing to 'Nader' the election.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:48 PM

12. Cool (nt)

 

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 06:59 PM

13. yes! run, bernie, run! nt

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 07:26 PM

14. So no more Bernie = Nader threads?

 



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Response to KamaAina (Reply #14)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 11:09 AM

104. Now it will probably just turn to the "Bernie is unelectable" talking point. nt

 

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Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #104)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 12:18 PM

105. Oh, right. My bad.

 

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Response to NorthCarolina (Reply #104)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 07:39 AM

129. Keep up

It's already turned to the "he is only spoiling the coronation for money (sorry, M.O.N.E.Y.)" talking point.

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Response to nxylas (Reply #129)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 07:46 AM

130. Only someone with absolutely no knowledge of Bernie's history

 

would make such a claim. That, or someone with an anti-populist agenda who is only here to discredit, not to discuss. I lend no credibility to such posters.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #14)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 09:42 AM

135. No need for any as long as he doesn't run a deliberate spoiler vanity boondoggle is there?

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 07:27 PM

15. I believe he would easily get as many votes as Nader and maybe as many as Perot,

and maybe even more. Maybe he could win. Anything can happen between now and 2016. I'm keeping an open mind for a Democratic candidate I can fully support with my heart and soul. Bernie is one choice, and I make a promise. If he's our candidate, I will take my 68 year old self on the road and work every day to convince everyone I meet to vote for Bernie. I've got a travel trailer and a pickup and will welcome all who want to join me.

If Hillary's our candidate, I will certainly vote for her and put up a sign, but I'll let the machine get her elected. That's mostly who she'll represent anyway.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #15)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:10 PM

37. Amen....

One of the few that I would work my tail off for....


And believe me, I need to work my tail off.

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Response to mountain grammy (Reply #15)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 07:32 PM

124. Road trip! Count me in, Grammy!

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Response to Stardust (Reply #124)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 08:39 PM

125. You're in, Stardust!

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 07:28 PM

16. I was on the call

I previously had the impression -- which he reinforced-- that he is not going to run.

Neither he nor Elizabeth Warren are polling anywhere close to Clinton.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/12/15/hillary-clinton-leads-elizabeth-warren-48-6-poll-democrats.html

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Response to PDittie (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:25 PM

19. That's because "Clinton's the next in line,"

has pretty much been pushed down our throats by the media for 7 years since she lost to Obama.

We need to let the primaries get underway, let people really start running and become household names, and let the public compare them and their platforms, before we'll really know if Hillary will face any viable challengers. Right now it's all about name recognition.

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Response to MoonchildCA (Reply #19)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:54 PM

27. "Pushed down our throats"???

 

uh 61% of Democrats WANT HER....and she has EARNED it!

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Response to MoonchildCA (Reply #19)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 05:44 PM

118. The challengers will not be Sanders or Warren

I'll make book on it. O'Malley, Jim Webb, and maybe Joe Biden. Those will be the secondary options. Maybe others, none well-known.

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Response to PDittie (Reply #16)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:53 PM

25. Bernie is polling at 4%.....Hillary at 61%....

 

that is one steep mountain to climb.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #25)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:57 PM

29. Color me surprised that you commented on this post.

Yes, I know you love Hillary...

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Response to MoonchildCA (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:58 PM

30. So do 61% of Democrats!

 

I am in GOOD company...


but I have also said many times....I am a loyal Democrat....whoever wins the Primary is who I vote for. I don't have to say false and disparaging things about any other candidate!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #30)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:36 PM

43. Well, that's all good and fine. I too will vote for the candidate.

However, saying it is not a forgone conclusion is not "disparaging" or "false."Saying Clinton is polling so high because of name recognition is not "disparaging" or "false."

You are welcome to love Hillary--many people do. I doubt that the 61% love her as much as you do, but we will see when the primary is underway.

The bottom line is that, this far out, the polls are mostly about name recognition. No one else being talked about has ever run a national election, so though they are household names among DUers, that is not necessarily the case with the general public. If you look at the polling this time 8 years ago, Hillary was way out in the lead, but there were other names that were pulling double digit numbers, such as Kerry, Edwards, and Gore. Why? Because that had all run for president before--as top candidates. There is no one in the (possible) field that has been there before, except Hillary, and you could argue Biden, but he has never polled high on a national ticket by himself. All those polling numbers are going to her because she's the only one that has been there before.

If it were possible to do a scientific poll on DU, with people that are really politically aware, I've got a feeling she would not poll quite so high, though she might still be ahead this early in the game.

What I really don't like is people acting as if it is a forgone conclusion. It is not. Until the primaries are well underway, anything can happen, and often does. Barack Obama showed us that.

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Response to MoonchildCA (Reply #43)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:46 PM

48. The ONLY ones saying "forgone conclusion" or "crowning" etc....are the Left Leaning Independents..

 

Obama was an anomaly...a longshot that paid off.

I am not willing to gamble with Republicans in the balance...we HAVE a candidate that is approved of by 61% who polls ahead by double digits against EVERY Republican. THAT is the candidate I put MY MONEY on!

I don't have to trash the competition to do it...unlike some around here....

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #48)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:24 PM

63. And yet - here you are......

 

Of course Bernie needs money. All politicians do. Yawn. g'nite.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #48)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:18 PM

74. Obama had also been a nationally recognized figure for almost 3 years

when he announced. He was also young, handsome, and a fantastic speaker. He had a great story. He was different than anyone else running.

Also: Obama was polling in the 30s in early-mid 2007. That's a FAR cry from Bernie's 4%.

I love Bernie, but he is not a household name and will NOT get anywhere close to the presidency. He is a great Senator and (like Warren) can do a lot of good in the Senate. We need Democrats and liberals in Congress otherwise having a Democratic president is rather pointless!

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Response to MoonchildCA (Reply #43)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:04 AM

85. Well, Biden was an early favorite in 1988

Last edited Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:44 AM - Edit history (1)

But if you want to know what happened to his candidacy, just Google "Biden" and "Neil Kinnock". It was a rather tame "scandal", but it was enough to derail his campaign.

Rule of American politics: If you're a Democrat with decent ideas, your campaign can be derailed by the slightest things, such as crying (Ed Muskie, Pat Schroeder), lifting a speech from another politician (Biden), giving a shout of joy (Dean), or even riding around in an army tank (Dukakis).
If you're a Republican, you can have a closet cram-full of skeletons which will never undergo real scrutiny.

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Response to MoonchildCA (Reply #29)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:15 PM

39. Some people never get tired of performance art. n/t

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #39)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:46 PM

50. Performance art would be thinking that you can come from 4% and beat the candidate with 61%

 

and polls ahead of the other party in double digits...THAT my friend is performance art!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #50)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:27 PM

64. Do you really think you are helping Hillary with this constant stream of....stuff?

 

You run the risk of just becoming an unpleasant little frisson. Basically, if I take your posts at face value, Hillary has all the money and votes and supports she will ever need. Why care so much about Bernie? Mystifying.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #64)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:35 PM

65. Constant stream of FACTS?

 

Do you seriously think what you are doing on Democratic Underground is making a difference for Bernie Sanders?


Am I supposed to just shut up when all I am doing is supporting the candidate that nearly 2/3rds of Democrats support? Who also polls ahead of EVERY Republican by double digits? Meanwhile you can say whatever you want about the NON Democratic Candidate on DU?

I really don't think the candidate with ^^^ those stats....is worried one way or the other what I am doing on DU....do you?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #65)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:41 PM

66. Facts is not the word I had in mind.

 

Also, I really do not think of Hillary as a Democrat, or at least what used to be a Democrat, before the party started oozing to the right.
Anyway, just wanted to kindly mention that the constant repeats do not change minds, they just glaze eyes.
I think those stats are just name recognition, and will fall once she starts to campaign. Like last time.
That's it for tonight.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #66)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:45 PM

67. You don't get to decide IF she is a Democrat...apparently MOST Democrats do believe she is...

 

Left Leaning Independents do not get to make that decision now do they?

If you cannot pledge to vote for whomever the Democrats select in OUR Primary election...then you are not one...you are ipso facto Independent!


and I am not surprised that facts are not on your radar!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #67)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 09:26 AM

94. You are aware that I only make that decision for myself, by myself, right?

 

I get to decide for ME. You do not get to decide for anyone but yourself. You really don't. You seem to be under the impression that you get to boss people around or something. Nope.

That "pledge" thing is really getting old and tattered. In addition, why on earth would I care if you call me an "ipso facto independent"?

Facts are on my radar, but evidently history is not on your radar. Hillary is not that great of a campaigner. Fondness for Bill has, I think, faded a bit. When people know that NAFTA and the TTP and other agreements are the reason their jobs are gone - they are not going to blame Ipso Facto Left Leaning Independents. Right now Hillary just has a lot of name recognition, which she had last time. Better watch out for those anomalies!!!!!!

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Response to djean111 (Reply #94)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:27 PM

113. Interesting in the same post it is understood only the individual decides their affiliation

the poster also asserts their right to decide everyone's affiliation (except Hillary Clinton who is allowed to decide her own).

Of course Hillary could come out and state she voted for Reagan and Bush the Elder once too and she'd still be a first magnitude Democrat in some eyes.

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Response to TheKentuckian (Reply #113)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 06:12 PM

123. She decided that I was not a democrat, I was a left leaning independent. And after thinking about it

and looking at the new democrats and their values I decided she was right, I am not a democrat. So after over 40 years registered as a Democrat. I went to the DMV and changed my party affiliation.

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Response to djean111 (Reply #94)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 09:01 PM

126. You are SO ipso facto, I am stunned that my dear friend did not bestow an ipso facto on me.

In fact I'm not sure I shall ever recover from the slight. opps I mean

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Response to Autumn (Reply #126)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 07:56 AM

131. I think there is an ipso facto tshirt 'n' everything! So sad you did not qualify......nt

 

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 07:30 PM

17. Go Bernie go!

 

Big K&R!!!

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:29 PM

20. He loves his country

 

Unlike shit-for-brains Nader.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 08:41 PM

22. So...Syriza?

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:02 PM

32. Good for Bernie

Now I hope when anyone here on DU who posts about how if Bernie or Warren don't run, or run but don't win, then we should all vote for them as a "write in", we can call them on on their BS.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:42 PM

46. Campaign for Bernie now, like he's already a Dem, to get a jump on the primaries. nt

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 09:46 PM

49. K&R

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:19 PM

62. I will work for Bernie if he runs.

I will work for local and state candidates if Hillary runs.

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Response to hay rick (Reply #62)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:54 PM

70. exactly

 

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:52 PM

68. Sanders seems to have people frightened here.

 

LOL. Lots of wailing and teeth gnashing.

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Response to Ramses (Reply #68)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:53 PM

69. And lots of exclamation points. 'Cause if you say it louder, that makes it more true.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #69)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:56 PM

72. Left Leaning Independents elevens!!!11111!!!1

 

Hillary has 149.46% of liberal support!!!111!!1!!!

The whole country loves Hillary and I will punch a hippie if you tell me different!!!11!!!11 elevens!!!1!1!!

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Response to Ramses (Reply #72)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 08:02 AM

93. Careful, dude...

You're a-flirtin' with gettin' whomped upside the head with the feared WALL OF TEXT!!!

Seriously, there were times in the past -- before the republicans decided to inject themselves with insanity-producing bat guano -- when the attitude of a candidate's supporters WOULD have an effect on my vote. The more strident and obnoxious the support, the less likely the candidate would get my vote.

Today, I know the consequences are much too serious to be influenced by it. And if Hillary is the nominee (which I figure she probably will be), I'll stroll into the voting booth, sadly shake my head, and vote for her. It's an easy "pledge" to make, as pledges go.

But it'll still feel like I've been forced into a choice of watching a remake of Animal House starring Rob Schneider or Atlas Shrugged Part III with Jon Voight. I'll opt to watch Rob, but I know there's going to be a dead fly in the popcorn somewhere.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 10:54 PM

71. What RESPECT I have for this human. nt

Last edited Wed Jan 28, 2015, 10:20 PM - Edit history (4)

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Response to UTUSN (Reply #71)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:45 PM

77. Same here

 

And unfortunately, I can't say that about many politicians.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:14 PM

73. “I will not play that role in helping to elect some right-wing Republican as President of the US..."

Thank you, Senator Sanders!

I still hope he runs as a Dem...

for Bernie.


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Response to pampango (Original post)

Mon Jan 26, 2015, 11:54 PM

79. Bernie is a good man and I look forward to the debates.

 

He has good common sense language and doesn't shit his pants, he seems to be always prepared and that scares the Shit out of the big guns whose time is mostly invested in covering up what they said in the past to fit any present need.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 07:39 AM

92. He's one of the good guys

Too damn smart to be suckered in by anyone on anything, that is Bernie Sanders


I'd give my left you know what if he'd run. throw in a kidney for good measure too

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 09:43 AM

95. Of course, that assumes all the Republicans are in the Republican party. n/t

 

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 09:45 AM

96. Yep, the only thing standing in the way of democracy is Wall St money.

The only people standing in the way of democracy are Wall St investors.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 10:00 AM

98. Yay, Bernie!

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 10:04 AM

99. Bernie Sanders is actually a realist.

If he runs, he will run in the primaries as a Democrat. If he runs, he will do so with the knowledge that he has almost no chance of actually becoming the Democratic nominee. If he runs, he will run to bring issues to the surface that might not otherwise be part of the primary campaign.

Bernie Sanders knows that he will not be the next President. If he runs, it will be with that knowledge.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 10:45 AM

101. I always knew...

...deep in my heart that he would never run as a spoiler. I am so waiting for the chance to support and vote for Bernie.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 10:48 AM

102. K&R nt

 

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:14 PM

108. My one concern is that if both he and Warren run they could split the anti-Clinton vote and

allow Clinton to cruise to victory.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #108)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:25 PM

110. I think having more than one progressive candidate is the least of our worries

 

I'd prefer a host of progressives.

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Response to fbc (Reply #110)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 03:15 PM

116. So you do not think that splitting the progressive vote should be a concern?

Not arguing with you, just asking.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #116)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 05:57 PM

120. I think it would depend on the individual candidates.

If the candidates splitting the progressive voters were Sanders and Warren, I expect one of them would drop out early in the primary season and throw their support to other candidate. If either of them chose to run, I believe their goal would not be obtaining the office for themselves so much as bringing attention to issues unlikely to be discussed candidly by the other competitors.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #120)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 08:03 AM

132. And it sounds like some folks really don't want that to happen

Why else would they be so outraged over a Sanders or Warren candidacy if they truly believe that Hillary is inevitable?

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #116)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 08:13 AM

133. It should definitely be a concern.

There should only be one strong progressive running for President.

It's the only chance we would have to beat Clinton.

Other strong progressives should surely realize this, and they should come to a consensus and agree to one of them running.

If it's about the health and well-being of our country and our country's citizens and not their egos, they will do this.

Of course, we have very, very few potential progressive candidates that are considering running for President. I truly hope that one of them does decide to run. And only one with the other progressive stars STRONGLY endorsing him/her.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 01:24 PM

109. Run Bernie!

 

We need someone to help us take back the Democratic party from the Wall Street lackeys.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 02:45 PM

114. Well, at least he doesn't want to be a spoiler.

Although he has as much chance of being president as Kucinich did in his time.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 03:13 PM

115. Well that should shut up all the DU Cassandras.

Last edited Tue Jan 27, 2015, 07:34 PM - Edit history (1)

Thank you Bernie. I never thought you would run as a spoiler candidate.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #115)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 05:58 PM

121. Doubtful, since Bernie gave an interview about a year ago, hinting at the same thing.

And really, anyone who's followed him should have the sense to know he wouldn't run as a spoiler candidate. He's not doing this to stroke his own ego.

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Response to winter is coming (Reply #121)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 06:03 PM

137. See post #107. n/t

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 03:26 PM

117. Thank you Bernie

I really like this guy but the thought of another Ralph Nadar election of 2000 wasn't really settling well in my stomach.

Bernie is smart enough to recognize that if he ran as a 3rd party it would all but guarentee a Republican win in 2016. He knows that is bad for the country and I applaud him for that. And I really do hope he considers running as a Democrat. We need more progressives in our party!

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 05:48 PM

119. Run Bernie run. This is no surprise, Bernie has said this all along.



Bernie Sanders 2016. He and Liz will work hard for the American people.

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Tue Jan 27, 2015, 10:56 PM

127. Good for Bernie. I'd vote for him if he gets the nod!

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Response to pampango (Original post)

Wed Jan 28, 2015, 09:30 AM

134. Good for him - thinking of the greater good.

I doubt his run will get huge traction outside the blogosphere but I hope I'm wrong and that he does very well. Whether he simply uses publicity to advocate for the common folks, or shifts the debates leftward, or pulls support from other candidates making them address his issues seriously, only good can come of it.

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