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(10,044 posts)
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 07:49 PM Jan 2015

Charlie Rangel brings up a Draft bill every year

This ISIS and AlQuida business is the biggest threat to the world that I've ever seen. A growing threat that has no army and doesn't seem to need one..

There's religious fanatics who need to punish, and sociopaths who just enjoy killing & raping, beheading, and terrorizing everyone, and their poor are tired of being poor - it's starting to really scare me. I'm old, ready to go, but people everywhere in any occupation are not safe. Just think of what they would do if they got hold of some nuclear weapons, and they will.

France said that they couldn't keep an eye on everyone who was on their terrorist list because they were short-handed and there were too many on the list. Sleeper cells are ready, asleep until called.

They won't pass your draft bill this year if you submit one, or the next couple of years, but sooner or later, Charlie.

Charlie Rangel brings up a Draft bill every year (Original Post) fadedrose Jan 2015 OP
We need it, for sure, rose, elleng Jan 2015 #1
Agree, it certainly would make everyone stand up and pay attention. Also, if the Bush crap had RKP5637 Jan 2015 #4
Exactly. elleng Jan 2015 #6
Yep, the huge profiteers in the MIC! As has been said many times, a racket. What always bothers me RKP5637 Jan 2015 #13
No one hates the draft more than military. tritsofme Jan 2015 #2
But the draft is a great idea from a social point of view: re Germany's Zivildienst DetlefK Jan 2015 #33
So - we are going to police the whole world? How, exactly, would that work? n/t djean111 Jan 2015 #3
This dumb draftee is against it but acknowledges there is merit to a citizens' army Brother Buzz Jan 2015 #5
And they made friends everywhere they went fadedrose Jan 2015 #16
The military currently turns away 80% madville Jan 2015 #7
Sounds like things that would tend to disqualify the poor more than the rich shawn703 Jan 2015 #14
++++++++++++++++ fadedrose Jan 2015 #18
obesity is huge oldandhappy Jan 2015 #19
LOL...I was thinking the same thing. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #27
80% do you have a link for that? Cosmic Kitten Jan 2015 #28
This report says 75%. former9thward Jan 2015 #30
And I'll say the same thing I do every time he does: Ykcutnek Jan 2015 #8
I like that one. NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #26
Anybody in favor of a draft gets to go first Lurks Often Jan 2015 #9
They should walk point with the Infantry... pinboy3niner Jan 2015 #10
Were you really scared when delrem Jan 2015 #11
Actually, I was fadedrose Jan 2015 #15
Do you really think that you're "suffering" for the PNAC program? delrem Jan 2015 #20
Not suffering fadedrose Jan 2015 #21
I don't know how to "solve these problems", delrem Jan 2015 #22
Everything you say is true fadedrose Jan 2015 #24
I'm dismayed by your statement delrem Jan 2015 #34
We can't afford a fair draft hack89 Jan 2015 #12
I am glad he brings this up yearly. oldandhappy Jan 2015 #17
war is a failed system olddots Jan 2015 #23
Politicians hide themselves away Johonny Jan 2015 #25
Every citizen should do two years of military or civil service tabasco Jan 2015 #29
If a draft ever passes Democrats will get the blame because of Rangel. former9thward Jan 2015 #31
If it passes Canada will have a massive upsurge in tourism. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #32
I look forward to the new anti-war movement, so bring back the draft. Maybe we'd get some ND-Dem Jan 2015 #35


(126,983 posts)
1. We need it, for sure, rose,
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 07:53 PM
Jan 2015

and had we HAD one, in W and his gang's early years, imo, none of this would be happening, that is STOPPED in Afghanistan!


(66,760 posts)
4. Agree, it certainly would make everyone stand up and pay attention. Also, if the Bush crap had
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 08:06 PM
Jan 2015

never occurred, it's quite likely we would not have this mess today.


(66,760 posts)
13. Yep, the huge profiteers in the MIC! As has been said many times, a racket. What always bothers me
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 09:06 PM
Jan 2015

are the poor innocents that get dragged into war not getting what the game is.


(16,656 posts)
2. No one hates the draft more than military.
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 07:59 PM
Jan 2015

With the possible exception of the conscripts themselves.

Save for WWIII, we will never again see conscription in this country.


(16,423 posts)
33. But the draft is a great idea from a social point of view: re Germany's Zivildienst
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 12:38 PM
Jan 2015

Germany used to have a draft, but you had a choice: military service or civil service.

Military service was shorter and the pay was better.

I chose civil service and worked with old and disabled people for a year. The work sucked at times and the salary... let's say it was good that I still lived at my parents. But I learned a lot in terms of medical care and household-stuff and it builds character.

It worked like this:
- A company (hospital, retirement home, social welfare organization...) would apply for the right to employ "Zivis".
- Once you get your letter from the draft office that you are allowed to choose civil service over military service, you had to apply for such a position at such a company. (I never heard of a rejection.)
- As a "Zivi", you work for the company but you get paid by the state.

I worked at a social welfare organization and mainly did household-chores for old and disabled people. For example, I was called in for one-time cleaning jobs a few times.
I knew a guy who worked at a hospital and his job was bring goods and patients from A to B.

Germany got rid of the draft a few years after my service. And with the military draft, the civil service also died. Maybe the military doesn't mind getting rid of inexperienced and unmotivated recruits, but I know that Germany lost an important piece of culture when the "Zivildienst" ceased to be.

Brother Buzz

(35,392 posts)
5. This dumb draftee is against it but acknowledges there is merit to a citizens' army
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 08:15 PM
Jan 2015

The late Colonel Hackworth's thoughts on it:

"Even when they pissed me off, I had to admit there was something I liked about the draftees who didn't want to be there and made no bones about it. I like draftees in general, even with the attendant problems. Historically draftees have kept the military on the straight and narrow. By calling a spade a spade, they keep it clean. Without their "careers" to think about, they can't be easily bullied or intimidated as Regulars; their presence prevents the elitism that otherwise might allow a Regular army to become isolated from the values of the country it serves. Draftees are not concerned for the reputation of their employer, the Army (in Vietnam they happily blew the whistle an everything from phony valor awards to the secret bombings of Laos and Cambodia); a draftee, citizens' army, so much a part of the history of America, is an essential part of a healthy democracy, one in which everyone pays the price of admission." - Colonel Hackworth, About Face


(10,044 posts)
16. And they made friends everywhere they went
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 09:22 PM
Jan 2015

Americans who are not prowar are lovable, you gotta admit. And they are in a hurry to get home to see a ball game. Wrap it up and get the hell out of there. No nation-building for these guys.


(7,360 posts)
7. The military currently turns away 80%
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 08:27 PM
Jan 2015

Of the people that apply. In modern times there are so many ways to avoid military service a draft would be a joke. Obesity, bad credit, criminal record, and tattoo placement are the top disqualifies these days, someone could get out of it pretty quick under the current minimum requirements.


(2,700 posts)
14. Sounds like things that would tend to disqualify the poor more than the rich
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 09:08 PM
Jan 2015

If the kids of the rich are the ones being sent off to war, you can be damn sure we won't be fighting any.


(12,778 posts)
27. LOL...I was thinking the same thing.
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 11:31 AM
Jan 2015

I think one could simply test positive on a drug test for smoking a joint and pretty much be disqualified for at least a year under the current guidelines. Of course, this would probably change if they were in need of more cannon fodder.

A few years back, some general was complaining that kids were too fat for military service and encouraging them to get in shape in case the military needed them to fight. What a joke! "Hey kids, we need you to start slimming down in case we need to draft you for our next Vietnam. Snap to it!"

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
28. 80% do you have a link for that?
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 11:32 AM
Jan 2015

What happened to all the talk about lowering
eligibility and giving exemptions for petty offenses?

80% sounds kinda extraordinary?


Lurks Often

(5,455 posts)
9. Anybody in favor of a draft gets to go first
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 08:46 PM
Jan 2015

regardless of age or medical condition. No exceptions or exemptions.


(53,339 posts)
10. They should walk point with the Infantry...
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 08:50 PM
Jan 2015

...before they get to drag other mothers' sons off to be killed or maimed in war.


(9,688 posts)
11. Were you really scared when
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 08:51 PM
Jan 2015

the US killed well over 100,000 Iraqis, destroyed Iraq's social and physical infrastructure, built black sites for purposes of torture, carpet bombed Falluja? How about when the US droned Pakistani, Yemeni, Somali, ..., villages? Taking out wedding parties, funerals, and inventing the infamous "double tap signature drone strike"? How about when the US took out Libya's "strong man" in a regime change operation, then let it all go to hell except for the oilfields? How about when, "leading from behind", the US continued the identical PNAC program (now led by HRC, and Kerry) and created "Friends of Syria" with the intent to bring in "regime change" in Syria, and with the Saudi and Qatari royals and help from Turkey funded "moderate rebels" indistinguishable from ISIS then ... shock! wondered where ISIS came from, where it got it's weapons, its funding, it's expertise?

Or are you just scared when a target in "the west" is attacked? Is only "terror" when white people are targeted?

Are you truly onside with ramping up the US's decades old "War on Terror", and do you realize how many decades the US has been attacking Iraq? What exactly has the US gotten out of it so far, that you want to double-down on the ultra-conservative PNAC plans?


(10,044 posts)
15. Actually, I was
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 09:17 PM
Jan 2015

I wondered why no one seemed to care about the thousands killed in Iraq and it was in my mind that some day, we were going to suffer for what we did there.

Some day seems to have come.

And I don't want the draft to to ever come. I heard Charlie talk about it a couple of months ago, and he's still for it. He makes sense, but it makes me nervous.

And it's not the west that's getting attacked...you haven't noticed Syria, Iraq and Jordon have been targeted...Nigeria is also an Islamic terrorist group, but they kill women, but not all do. Pakistan is touchy, Afghanistan is not settled. Iran is getting warmer to us, but no love there yet.

They still have more killing there than we will ever have here, unless they get hold of some planes and bombs.

Not for PNAC plans, McCain and his buddy scare me, Hillary too...

I think armies are for defense, not nation-building, or oil protection, and ours has been misused to the point that we are hated and may need Charlie's army for defense one day ....I think Obama felt that way till he was criticized for not stepping into Syria sooner.. What to do, what to do?


(9,688 posts)
20. Do you really think that you're "suffering" for the PNAC program?
Wed Jan 14, 2015, 09:55 PM
Jan 2015


Yes, I noticed that the PNAC program targeted Syria and Iraq. That's what the US plan for "regime change" is!
Who do you think is *leading* this program?
Why do you say "Islamic terror", and not US terror?
Are you blind?

You're blaming the victims of US war crimes.


(10,044 posts)
21. Not suffering
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 01:15 AM
Jan 2015

just not happy about it. We put a lot of money into defending some allies in an amount that is disproportionate to what we give other countries who are truly poor. PNAC was written by Republicans and I think Netanyehu had something to do with it. I know he has no love for any country surrounding him, nor they for Israel. Didn't PNAC decide that Saddam had to go?

I have to read up on that more. All I know is the AC stands for American Century, which is a misnomer. Republican century is more like it.

Islamic "terror" is several kinds. What they have in common is their hatred for the West, mostly the US. They hate our life style, and they hate our prejudice against their way of dress and our lack of regard for the Prophet.

Some hate what we did to Iraq and the people our troops killed under orders. Others hate those who have luxuries and live in poverty. Some hate each others' Islam religion. Sadam was hated by more than half his country. The Kurds are reasonable. Boko Haram is a mystery to me.

Our troops are superior soldiers. Many are career and don't mind a long war, especially with high rank. Contractors make a fortune compared to enlisted men and they're not anxious to end it all and come home. But they are all just following orders.

If you know how to solve these problems, let us all at DU know. Waiting.....


(9,688 posts)
22. I don't know how to "solve these problems",
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 04:04 AM
Jan 2015

but the first step might be for the people of the USA to be a little more reflective and honest about their role.

In the USA's illegal and immoral war of choice against Iraq, it wasn't "thousands killed", it was over 100 thousand, and even more maimed and the country was destroyed. Iraq's schools, hospitals, electrical grid, roads and bridges destroyed. Their cities destroyed. In the US's illegal and immoral "regime change" operation against Syria, begun under Obama/HRC but following the identical PNAC program as underlay the US's destruction of Iraq, Syria is being destroyed and ISIS is being armed, funded and trained either directly or through US proxies. "Moderate rebels" my ass!

The US destroyed Libya. It is conducting terror operations using drones piloted half a world away to fire hellfire missiles at "signature targets" (always called "terrorists" after the fact) in half a dozen countries in the mid-east that it isn't at war with.

You KNOW this - yet point your finger at "Islamic terrorists" as being the problem.

You seem to think you, personally, are "suffering" from some blowback. You say:
"This ISIS and AlQuida business is the biggest threat to the world that I've ever seen", and appear totally oblivious to the extent of the US criminal war enterprise in the mid-east and to the fact that the US is the *cause* of that carnage. Because that carnage doesn't impact you, and you don't identify with the arab people. Instead, you blame the victims, the people of the countries that the US destroyed and is destroying, and you want a faster and greater US military buildup over there to alleviate your fright and apprehension.

You lightly pass it off: "We put a lot of money into defending some allies" as if these illegal and immoral US wars are somehow in self-defence, and as if the US under both Republican and Democratic administrations isn't the leader and motivator for all of those wars, and as if the Republican and Democratic administrations are somehow different, as if the Democratic administration is somehow exonerated for what it is doing.

IMO your way of thinking is a product of total immersion in MSM war propaganda in service of big oil and the MIC, in service of wall street and the most cynical of politics.


(10,044 posts)
24. Everything you say is true
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 10:00 AM
Jan 2015

except I do blame the US for its Iraq disaster and the 200,000 deaths and climbing. Small wonder they hate and mistrust us.

But it remains, what do we do to get out of it? When the President attempts to leave he is criticized and when he agrees to stay, same result.

If there is an answer, what is it? Blaming me doesn't help. Nobody ever asked for my approval for the Iraq incursion. Everyone in DU was against it and the music for it when CNN showed coverage of the US entering Iraq. Cities all over the world held demonstrations against it, but our government paid no heed.

Think about the "solidarity" march in Paris. Who will they fight together? The enemy (so-called) is all over the place. We don't have enough men, and the countries involved don't have the expertise to have an army to fight their enemies. Saddam's army is what got booted out of Iraq and is causing so much trouble now and they were cruel when they lived in Iraq.

We have our share of veterans killed or suffering from loss of limbs and PT'S. Good people, as innocent as those Iraqis killed. For their sake I am patriotic, but where our government is concerned, not so much...they do what they are told to do.....thus, the spending becomes lopsided.

Howard Dean was the only politician who was honest and brave enough to protest the war, and his popularity escalated. His picture was my avatar until he recently announced his support for Clinton, which is the same as backing the PNAC. I was so disappointed that he supports the very people responsible for his loss in Iowa, which I guess was the DLC. My Senators Levin and Stabinow also voted against the war, and they now support Clinton.

One more time, what do we do now? We are on the same page as far as saying who was to blame for what's happening now, but we did not draw up the boundary lines for the countries involved.

I'm 76, and never seen us so messed up.


(9,688 posts)
34. I'm dismayed by your statement
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 02:41 AM
Jan 2015

"This ISIS and AlQuida business is the biggest threat to the world that I've ever seen."

It comes at a time when a terrorist attack, the Charlie Hebdo killings, is getting extraordinary attention by the MSM, totally out of proportion to the attention given to the least of, say, the drone wedding party or funeral procession killings that have been fairly commonplace and that continue unabated. Killings that apparently don't matter, because they're killings of arabs and they are part of an orchestrated policy of "the civilized west", the "war on terror".

IMO your words are war propaganda. Nothing more.



(10,237 posts)
23. war is a failed system
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 04:30 AM
Jan 2015

we never seam to learn from it and keep repeating the mistake .

Atleast Rangle brings it up as a wake up call that there is no answer because war is not the answer.


(19,758 posts)
25. Politicians hide themselves away
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 11:11 AM
Jan 2015

They only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor

Classic Ozzy...


(30,507 posts)
31. If a draft ever passes Democrats will get the blame because of Rangel.
Thu Jan 15, 2015, 11:49 AM
Jan 2015

We will lose a generation or more of young people.



(4,571 posts)
35. I look forward to the new anti-war movement, so bring back the draft. Maybe we'd get some
Sun Jan 18, 2015, 02:51 AM
Jan 2015

real activism for a change.

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