HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » France's big mistake: len...

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 02:32 PM

France's big mistake: lenient sentences handed out to the terrorists

One of them (the younger brother) received just a three year suspended sentence (i.e. no jail time) for jihadi recruitment. Meanwhile, the older brother was known to have traveled to Yemen to be trained by al Qaida, but France failed to make use of US intelligence on the matter. Finally, their buddy who attacked the kosher supermarket received five years for attempting to break a jihadist out of prison, but his sentence was reduced.

France's SWAT teams admirably didn't muck about in either hostage situation -- the terrorists are now dead. French law, however, should be likewise non-accommodating to terrorists: any type of activity such as jihadi recruitment should result in mandatory life sentences with no chance of parole.

21 replies, 1385 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply France's big mistake: lenient sentences handed out to the terrorists (Original post)
brentspeak Jan 2015 OP
Sopkoviak Jan 2015 #1
TheBlackAdder Jan 2015 #2
sibelian Jan 2015 #6
Capt. Obvious Jan 2015 #3
KittyWampus Jan 2015 #4
LordGlenconner Jan 2015 #5
Live and Learn Jan 2015 #21
sibelian Jan 2015 #8
Capt. Obvious Jan 2015 #9
Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #17
brentspeak Jan 2015 #11
MoonRiver Jan 2015 #12
GGJohn Jan 2015 #13
NaturalHigh Jan 2015 #15
Ykcutnek Jan 2015 #7
Donald Ian Rankin Jan 2015 #18
JonLP24 Jan 2015 #19
TorchTheWitch Jan 2015 #10
smirkymonkey Jan 2015 #14
JonLP24 Jan 2015 #16
JonLP24 Jan 2015 #20

Response to brentspeak (Original post)

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 02:38 PM

1. But harsher sentences will just piss them off more ya know

 

Maybe we need to set out a plate of cookies and call in the anger managment squad to deal with these fine young followers of the prophet.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Sopkoviak (Reply #1)

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 03:34 PM

2. So, somebody actively trying to kill people will be even more angry if the sentence is longer? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #2)

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 03:46 PM

6. It's a bit silly, isn't it?


"WE'RE SO SORRY, MR MURDERER!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brentspeak (Original post)

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 03:36 PM

3. France could have learned a thing or two from us

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 03:42 PM

4. lots of room between two extremes.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KittyWampus (Reply #4)

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 03:43 PM

5. Not when you see the world only in black and white

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LordGlenconner (Reply #5)

Mon Jan 12, 2015, 06:13 AM

21. +1 nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #3)

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 03:47 PM

8. Oh. Was that guy a murderer?


?

I was under the impression he wasn't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sibelian (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 10, 2015, 08:23 AM

9. He was a terrorist

as was this guy

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sibelian (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 12, 2015, 04:31 AM

17. Nor were these murderers at the time being discussed. N.T.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 11, 2015, 10:18 AM

11. Yeah, because life inprisonment for planning/abetting terrorism

is the same exact thing as torture committed at Abu Ghraib.

By now, I shouldn't be surprised by the unbelievable stupidity that pollutes these boards, but I still am.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 11, 2015, 10:23 AM

12. Life in jail does NOT have to include torture.

Bush and Cheney were sociopaths who seemed to enjoy the task of torturing those under their thumbs. France does not torture. Most of the civilized world does not torture. But these murdering bastards need to be locked away for the sake of innocent society.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 11, 2015, 10:38 AM

13. And this has nothing to do with the thread.

The thread is about France's lenient sentencing for convicted terrorists, nothing suggesting torture.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Capt. Obvious (Reply #3)

Sun Jan 11, 2015, 10:37 PM

15. Nobody is advocating anything like that.

Leaving known terrorists free to do their thing, though, is pretty stupid.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brentspeak (Original post)

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 03:46 PM

7. Europe gets a lot of things right, but criminal justice is not one of them.

 

Where we are way too strict, they are way too lenient.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ykcutnek (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 12, 2015, 04:33 AM

18. "In some cases a bit too", arguably, but in some cases (cannabis, for example) still too strict.

I'd take the justice system here in the UK over the US one any day of the year, certainly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ykcutnek (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 12, 2015, 05:50 AM

19. The Nordic countries routinely top the rankings for best justice systems

according to the Rule of Law Index.

Actually the country that the US ranks after is France who edges US on "Criminal Justice" 0.65 to 0.63.

As is often the case in Europe, they do it better than the US.

This article hits the mark

Two recent studies provide news good and bad for the U.S. legal system. The good: The United Statesí civil legal system is one of the best in the world, according to the results of the World Justice Projectís Rule of Law Index 2011.

And the bad? According to this same study, millions of Americans canít use this fine system because they canít afford it. They have legal rightsóto child support, Medicare benefits or protection against an improper home foreclosureóbut they find these rights meaningless because they canít enforce them.

ďThe U.S. legal system is similar to its medical system; in many aspects it is the best in the world, but many people donít get any services at all,Ē says Juan Carlos Botero, director of the Rule of Law Index project.

A plethora of government and volunteer programs provide free legal aid, but they are overstretched. ďAny local legal aid office will tell you that at least two-thirds of those who walk through their doors arenít getting help because there arenít enough resources,Ē says H. Ritchey Hollenbaugh, chair of the ABA Standing Committee on the Delivery of Legal Services and a partner at Carlile Patchen & Murphy in Columbus, Ohio.

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/unequal_justice_u.s._trails_high-income_nations_in_serving_civil_legal_need

I ranked the index solely on "Criminal Justice" France, Germany, Denmark and the Nordic countries rank ahead of us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brentspeak (Original post)

Sat Jan 10, 2015, 10:40 AM

10. that's not merely lenient

It's down right suspicious. They let known terrorists walk and didn't bother checking on what they were doing.

That isn't lenient, that's permission.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TorchTheWitch (Reply #10)

Sun Jan 11, 2015, 07:40 PM

14. +1000

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brentspeak (Original post)

Mon Jan 12, 2015, 03:16 AM

16. I certainly don't favor the Jose Padilla option

who had his 30-year reduced to 21 and this after the courts felt his 17 year sentence was too short in Supermax for a thought crime (a fingerprint on a form) and this isn't counting the 3 1/2 years in military custody held without charges.

Somehow I don't think that makes us safer.

On the subject of Padilla when a fingerprint is the only recorded evidence against you... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Mayfield

Meaning people have faith in fingerprints as if its DNA but it is very flawed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brentspeak (Original post)

Mon Jan 12, 2015, 06:06 AM

20. I didn't catch this the first time - suspended sentence

I don't know what it is like in France but suspended sentences are offered by prosecutors all-the-time as a result of a plea bargain. I can't say what is always or usually means since the is true bargaining power, then estimated bargaining power so some may give away the house because they overestimate what will happen if they don't -- so a good chance it is offered when a prosecutor feels he was an unlikely chance he'll obtain a conviction, 3 years is a somewhat long probationary period so I don't know what to make of that since a reason why a lot of defendants will go for the suspended sentence because even if they win, it is more convenient than going to trial, you don't get in trouble you don't get a conviction. Also there is no jail time or fine involved. The "how long is the probationary period" is probably a secondary thought.

It seems the mistake was the prosecutor didn't go for the conviction in trial (if the evidence was weak he probably wouldn't have even got a suspended sentence) or he should have negotiated a conviction but depending on his attorney's true & estimated bargaining power, I can't see it being anything much more than a year or so (at best).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread