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Wed Dec 24, 2014, 01:27 PM

 

Why is the Saint Louis County Police purposely trying to stir up unrest?

Last edited Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:44 PM - Edit history (1)

Earlier today the County Police released a nearly 2 min video of what they claim shows Antonio Martin pointing a gun at a Berkeley police officer, problem is they freeze the video the moment it shows someone's arm extended and edit out the rest.

Why would they release a 2 min video with the key part edited out?

We got to see the Tamir Rice shooting unedited so why can't they release the entire video in this case, why leave doubts in people's minds?

Doubt leads to unrest and they know it.

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Reply Why is the Saint Louis County Police purposely trying to stir up unrest? (Original post)
951-Riverside Dec 2014 OP
NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #1
global1 Dec 2014 #2
Cha Dec 2014 #39
Lurks Often Dec 2014 #3
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #4
Lurks Often Dec 2014 #5
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #6
Lurks Often Dec 2014 #11
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #12
Lurks Often Dec 2014 #13
uponit7771 Dec 2014 #8
Lurks Often Dec 2014 #10
uponit7771 Dec 2014 #7
ScreamingMeemie Dec 2014 #9
Odin2005 Dec 2014 #14
Rex Dec 2014 #31
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #15
Rex Dec 2014 #32
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #16
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #17
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #18
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #19
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #20
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #21
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #22
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #23
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #24
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #27
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #28
uppityperson Dec 2014 #25
Spider Jerusalem Dec 2014 #26
uppityperson Dec 2014 #29
Rex Dec 2014 #34
uppityperson Dec 2014 #35
Rex Dec 2014 #37
cherokeeprogressive Dec 2014 #41
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #42
cherokeeprogressive Dec 2014 #44
doc03 Dec 2014 #30
madville Dec 2014 #43
Rex Dec 2014 #33
dilby Dec 2014 #36
rgbecker Dec 2014 #38
951-Riverside Dec 2014 #40

Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 01:33 PM

1. Too bad both the body cam and dash cam weren't on

The cop is white, fuck


Look at the price of gas in that town, under $2


THANKS OBAMA

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 01:50 PM

2. I'm Sorry - But I Can't Tell What Is Even Going On In This Video.......nt

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Response to global1 (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 11:05 PM

39. I can't either.. even with my magnifying glass.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 01:58 PM

3. Perhaps they don't want to show the person actually being shot?

 

While they showed all of the Tamir Rice tape, between the distance of the camera from the shooting scene and the police car blocking Tamir in the last seconds before Tamir was shot, the tape does not show the bullet(s) hitting Tamir.

The Grand Jury and/or the regular jury if it goes to trial will be shown the whole video.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 02:05 PM

4. Police release raw videos of shootings all the time

 

Sorry but theory doesn't hold water.







Why show the video to begin with if you're going to edit out the most important part?

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 02:11 PM

5. Those didn't happen in St. Louis

 

it isn't unreasonable to think St. Louis County Police decided not to show the teen actually being hit by the bullets, especially if it was graphic and given the recent unrest from the Michael Brown shooting. They certainly aren't going to show the video until a trial if it doesn't support the police officer.

That's the most reasonable explanation and absent contrary evidence, the most likely.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 02:21 PM

6. The "Tamir Rice tape" you referenced to earlier as an example to support your theory...

 

Didn't happen in Saint Louis either.

Whatever the case is, the point that I'm making is that by releasing an edited video only helps fuel unrest. A large amount people in that area are already on edge and they do not care about judges, grand juries, etc, they have lost faith in the system and in that environment when you release a video like that, it only fuels their doubts and fears.

It would have been smart on their part hold the video if they had no intentions of releasing the unedited version or release the whole video. Anything in between only fuels unrest, they should know better.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 02:30 PM

11. Damned if they do, damned if they don't

 

The police will get criticized no matter what they do:

If they don't release the tape, it's a cover up
If they release part of the tape, people wonder why they didn't release all of it
If they release all of the tape and and the death is graphic, they'll get slammed for being insensitive to the family

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 03:06 PM

12. More like: Support if they do. Unrest if they don't.

 

The police will get criticized no matter what they do:


There is something you're forgetting here, what we're seeing in MO and around the country goes way beyond simple "criticism", we're not talking about comments posted on facebook, twitter or some online forum. There are real lives and real businesses on the line here.

In the real world you have to weigh what is in the best interest of the community, your officers, citizens and business and if you have a video that shows your officer acted appropriately to an actual threat, it would make sense to release the video unedited or hold the video and release it at a later date UNEDITED.

What you don't do is release an EDITED video with the most important part removed, doing so only fuels people's fears, suspicions and doubts and results in mass unrest.

I'll give you another example, back in 2003 Ricardo Alfonso Cerna, a two strike offender shot and wounded an deputy in San Bernardino, CA, he was later caught and brought to an interrogation room where he pulled out a gun that they failed to find on him and shot himself.

Right after the shooting people could not believe that the police did not do a through search of him and there was a theory flying around that they executed him in the interview room then planted the gun.

The sheriffs department quickly put an end to these rumors by showing the RAW and UNEDITED video of him pulling a gun out of his waistband and blowing his own brains out.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 03:42 PM

13. I'm going to disagree that the unedited video would reduce the unrest

 

if the teen died a very graphic death.

I don't see any good choices for the police, only bad, worse and horrible and I damn glad I'm not the one having to make these decisions.

I am very aware that real people are involved and that the police and the elected officials in charge have to make the best choice for the community as a whole. The problem right now, is that for better or worse, people are reacting to these incidents based on their emotions. If that was my kid, relative or friend, I'm not likely to react well watching him die a graphic death even if he was pointing a gun that he was holding in his hand.

Perhaps the best choice would have been to find a neutral party respected by all involved who could have watched the entire video and stated to the public that the police are not lying and that they understood and fully agreed with not releasing the unedited tape at this point in time.

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Response to Lurks Often (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 02:25 PM

8. or they turned off the dash cam and the cop didn't wear his assigned body cam? ...

... don't leave out the important stuff

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Response to uponit7771 (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 02:26 PM

10. Which is a different issue and not what I was responding to.

 

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 02:24 PM

7. Not only that the cop wasn't wearing his ASSIGNED body cam and they "don't know" if the dash cam

... was turned on.

His girlfriend says the cops just started messing with him

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 02:25 PM

9. All I see is a nearly two minute video of a parking lot.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 04:19 PM

14. They are infiltrated by the KKK and WANT a race war.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 08:25 PM

31. Dixiecrat holdouts.

 

Looks like not all of them fled the party. I think we do have a White Identity Movement element in law enforcement. The way Brown's murder was handled kind of brought it to the forefront.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 06:32 PM

15. So they released video of what they claim happened seconds before the shooting & afterwards BUT

 

Yet again, they edit the video and crop out the part that shows Martin's actions seconds before the shooting.

From the description:

Mr. Martin has been left out of frame out of respect for his grieving family.




They need to stop it and just show the entire video unedited, uncensored and uncropped so we can put any lingering theories or doubts about this shooting to rest.

Either release it all or release nothing but stop editing out those crucial moments. Like I said before by doing it this way, they are stirring people up and I don't know why.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 08:28 PM

32. Considering we all have now heard from police leaders that we ALL MUST follow their

 

orders and NOT follow the law - it tends to make one wonder what the fuck militarized police departments are thinking. Clearly it is NOT about policing the community. It appears that they are trying to push the idea that we are merely to take them at their word due to their job profession.

FUCK THAT.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 06:39 PM

16. The video pretty clearly shows that he's pointing a gun.

It's grainy and relatively low-resolution but there's just enough to make out the shape; the angle of the arm and wrist and position of the hand are 100% consistent with holding a pistol, and not consistent with how one would hold a mobile phone. Add to that the fact that the deceased had a record of arrests for armed robbery and assault, and it's very plausible that he would be in possession of an illegal firearm, and prepared to use it on a cop rather than face life in prison (Missouri has a three-strikes law; if he had a prior felony conviction, possession of an illegal firearm alone would be enough to send him away for life).

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 06:52 PM

17. No it doesn't and don't try to fill in the blanks for the Police Department.

 

The whole incident was captured on video, they need to release the videos unedited. The first video was frozen just before the shooting and the second was cropped.

And just because a talking head tells you what you're seeing or hearing doesnt always make it true.




At this point, I don't care about what his background was, I don't care about what witnesses said, I don't care about what the talking heads are saying, I just want to see the whole video, raw and unedited. Unlike the Michael Brown shooting, this was captured on video from several angles.

Shape and angles can be debated after the unedited video is released.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 06:53 PM

18. "Talking head"?

I have no idea what you're talking about; I don't watch television news, and anyway I don't even live in the US. I watched the surveillance video as posted on various news sites; what I see is Martin pointing a gun at a cop.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:04 PM

19. I want to see what happened between 11:14:50 PM and 11:15:00 PM in its entirety

 

The event was captured in its entirety on video, there is no need to edit the most important parts out. I just want to see the video without any editing, freezing, cropping, blurring, zooming, enhancing, etc.

The rest can be debated later.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:06 PM

20. Seeing Martin pull a gun is quite enough

the response of the officer in this instance was entirely appropriate. The video stops because, well. Do we really need to see Martin getting shot? Because that's what happens next. That's what tends to happen to people who pull a gun on a cop.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #20)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:12 PM

21. The sections where they allege that he pulled a gun is edited out and I don't see a gun.

 

I need to see the unedited video, I'm not going to debate the rest with you until they release the video UNEDITED.

The unedited video exists, release it.

Just that simple.

Do we really need to see Martin getting shot?


Yes.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #21)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:15 PM

22. No, it's not "edited out".

See here (fullscreen, 1:23-1:24) and look at the angle of his arm and wrist and tell me that's anything other than a gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=7s01iO4jvtM#t=84

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:22 PM

23. Yes, it is. Even Saint Louis County Police disclosed that in the video's description

 

With that said, as I told you before, I'm not going to debate angles with you. Its pointless without the unedited video

I want to see the unedited video (which exists).

We can debate the rest later.

You can keep grasping at shapes, angles, pixels, whatever, it does not matter. I want to see the unedited video.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:29 PM

24. The part that's edited is the part where he gets shot.

Not the part where he pulls the gun.

Apparently you are blind.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #24)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:34 PM

27. Re: "Apparently you are blind."

 

At this point there is nothing more to discuss with you, obviously you have your own personal agenda as do I but I'm not going to stoop down to name calling or engage in personal attacks.

I just want to see the unedited video which exists, end of discussion.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #27)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:35 PM

28. You want to see this kid getting shot, you mean.

Which is probably edited and not released out of consideration for his family. I suppose that hasn't occurred to you.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:32 PM

25. I see him holding out his arm. Do you have a clear image of a gun as I'd like to see it, if you'd

share. He could be holding anything or nothing.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:33 PM

26. With his arm held out like that and his wrist turned like that?

It's a gun. The video is fairly low-resolution but it's still good enough to make out the shape of what he's holding. And the way he's holding it makes it being anything BUT a gun very unlikely.

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Response to Spider Jerusalem (Reply #26)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 07:39 PM

29. it is too fuzzy to see a wrist turned or a gun shape. he could have been handing over his

phone, making it look like his arm was elongated. It could be a gun, but could be other things. Have you ever asked a hormonal acting out teen for their phone? I have and got the arm extension, wrist fling, scoffing noise.

It could be, but could easily be something else, according to that video.

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #29)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 08:36 PM

34. Whatever he has is all of a few pixels and at 360p no one here can claim they can

 

be sure. He could be pointing an accusatory finger at the cops...need to see the full thing and at better resolution.

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Response to Rex (Reply #34)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 08:45 PM

35. I am trying to be objective rather than trying to make an unclear shape into something

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Response to uppityperson (Reply #35)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 10:54 PM

37. Me too I have no idea what it could be.

 

It could be a gun it could be a pointing finger.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 25, 2014, 04:56 PM

41. I'm not sure why you feel entitled...

 

You're not an investigator, you're not a member of the Police Department, nor are you an officer of the court.

What obligation does anyone in charge have to you that you're entitled to see that video the day after the shooting?

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Response to cherokeeprogressive (Reply #41)

Thu Dec 25, 2014, 05:34 PM

42. As a citizen of the United States of America I *am* entitled to see what my government is doing

 

I'm not sure why you feel entitled...


If YOU don't like citizens holding their government accountable, if you don't like citizens looking over their government's shoulder then you are more than free to renounce your citizenship from wherever you live and go live in China, North Korea, Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Burma, Uzbekistan, etc where you don't have to worry about others questioning the activities of their government.


You're not an investigator, you're not a member of the Police Department, nor are you an officer of the court.

What obligation does anyone in charge have to you that you're entitled to see that video...


You forgot one thing, I am a member of the public and its called the Freedom of Information Act, every state has their own laws which is largely based on the Federal Government's FOIA that was passed in 1967.

Furthermore the Saint Louis County Police decided to release heavily edited versions on their own, I'm merely asking for the unedited version.

If they have nothing to hide, if the full video exonerates their officer then they need to release the whole thing not just cropped out and frozen snippets so this can be put to rest once and for all because the longer they wait, the more out of control things will become.

I don't care about what a press release says, I don't care what the mayor said, I don't care what the officer said, I don't care what witnesses in the area said, the event was captured on video as it happened. The video in its entirety will speak for itself, not snippets, not cropped versions, not a blurred version, not animated gifs based on the edited version but the whole video from the moment first contact was made up until backup arrived.


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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #42)

Thu Dec 25, 2014, 06:37 PM

44. Your government? Do you live in Riverside?

 

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 08:19 PM

30. It appears to me the guy is pointing a gun at the cop so if there is

a gun it looks like a justified shooting to me. We are seeing all these incidents involving blacks, there has to be some white shootings that are questionable too. Someone needs to find some evidence of those shootings or lack of them, are no whites ever shot in such incidents? I think there just has to be.

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Response to doc03 (Reply #30)

Thu Dec 25, 2014, 05:56 PM

43. The last numbers I saw

Are from 2012, around 260 whites shot and killed by police and 130 blacks that year.

This doesn't seem like a questionable shooting, everything so far indicates it was justified. Same with the Dontre Hamilton shooting, you can't pull a gun on police or start beating an officer with their own baton and not expect to get shot.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 08:34 PM

33. So I take it the figure to the far left at top is the guy that pulls the gun out?

 

Wow, some here have eagle eyes. I can barely make out anything at 360p. Yeah show me the entire tape, the BS people keep slinging out out of respect for the family - that never stopped cops before so what so special about this one tape?

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 08:46 PM

36. I think the cops story is legit.

The video looks like hell but you can see something being pointed towards the cop and the cop begin to run backwards and fall over. The cops actions at that time shows what appears to be reaction to a direct threat. A gun was found at the scene and there were plenty of witnesses, will have to see what their statements are but I believe they will go with the cop. This as far as I can tell is a justified shooting and I am sure after the investigation it will be found to be such.

Not every police shooting is unjustified and to say that they are is a disservice to the innocent men and women who lost their lives to real police brutality.

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Response to dilby (Reply #36)

Wed Dec 24, 2014, 11:02 PM

38. OK, then tell me at what second the cop shoots his weapon.

We see the raised "GUN" at 54 seconds and the cop falling backwards at 55. Was the Cop's weapon already unholstered when Martin raises his "Gun"? Why not show Martin falling and the "Gun" falling to where the police have indicated they found it? Oh Yeah, to protect the family from watching their boy getting killed on the streets of Missouri. Thanks for that. They are so considerate.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Original post)

Thu Dec 25, 2014, 04:48 PM

40. (If) Martin pulled out a gun and pointed it at a police officer...

 

Then he does not deserve any time or support from those fighting against police brutality IMO. This is why its important for the Police Department to release the videos unedited so this can be put to rest once and for all.

By editing, freezing and cropping the videos at the most important moments, they are casting doubt which fuels theories which fuels fear which leads to unrest.


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