HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Congress just stuck one u...

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 09:25 PM

Congress just stuck one up the middle class rear end!!! (updated)


http://apnews.excite.com/article/20141210/us--congress_rdp-15b0b1309f.html

In an unexpected move, lawmakers also agreed on legislation expected to be incorporated into the spending measure that will permit a reduction in benefits for current retirees at economically distressed multiemployer pension plans. Supporters said it was part of an effort to prevent a slow-motion collapse of a system that provides retirement income to millions, but critics objected vehemently.


UPDATE info is based on just Illinois: Employers' woes push union pension plans to collapse: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20141206/ISSUE01/312069985/employers-woes-push-union-pension-plans-to-collapse

Nearly 230,000 Chicago-area union workers and retirees risk not getting the pensions they've been promised, and some may not get any retirement benefits at all unless Congress comes up with a fix soon.

While lawmakers wrestled with the issue for at least 10 years, $6.26 billion in unfunded retirement obligations was racked up by 30 union-affiliated plans in the city and suburbs that are in financial danger. That doesn't count the Teamsters Central States, Southeast and Southwest Areas pension fund, which alone is $17.55 billion short of what it needs to pay benefits for its nearly 408,000 members nationwide, including 30,000 in Illinois.

It has been a quiet, slow-moving crisis, but Central States could change that. If a solution isn't in place by 2017, the Rosemont-based plan is expected to go belly-up in 10 years or so, experts say.

I've told politicians many times before, if you really want to know what the 800-pound gorilla in the room is for us, it's our pensions, says John Bryan, president of Geneva Construction and chairman of the Illinois Road and Transportation Builders Association.

FULL story at link.

46 replies, 4875 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 46 replies Author Time Post
Reply Congress just stuck one up the middle class rear end!!! (updated) (Original post)
Omaha Steve Dec 2014 OP
NYC_SKP Dec 2014 #1
antigop Dec 2014 #13
LeftInTX Dec 2014 #2
Fumesucker Dec 2014 #3
nichomachus Dec 2014 #5
jwirr Dec 2014 #18
riversedge Dec 2014 #31
Doctor_J Dec 2014 #4
merrily Dec 2014 #26
CrispyQ Dec 2014 #45
Wellstone ruled Dec 2014 #6
truedelphi Dec 2014 #43
truedelphi Dec 2014 #7
doc03 Dec 2014 #8
Omaha Steve Dec 2014 #9
doc03 Dec 2014 #10
kwijybo Dec 2014 #12
Ed Suspicious Dec 2014 #17
kwijybo Dec 2014 #23
Ed Suspicious Dec 2014 #33
doc03 Dec 2014 #44
lunasun Dec 2014 #11
aggiesal Dec 2014 #14
antigop Dec 2014 #15
abelenkpe Dec 2014 #20
LarryNM Dec 2014 #22
Enthusiast Dec 2014 #24
Amishman Dec 2014 #42
ReRe Dec 2014 #16
Enthusiast Dec 2014 #25
ReRe Dec 2014 #34
Enthusiast Dec 2014 #39
ReRe Dec 2014 #40
yeoman6987 Dec 2014 #29
ReRe Dec 2014 #35
benz380 Dec 2014 #38
my morning pages Dec 2014 #19
Diremoon Dec 2014 #21
merrily Dec 2014 #27
ReRe Dec 2014 #36
merrily Dec 2014 #37
SamKnause Dec 2014 #28
liberal_at_heart Dec 2014 #30
GummyBearz Dec 2014 #41
Brickbat Dec 2014 #32
TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #46

Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 09:31 PM

1. Simple solution: Nationalize retirement, keep it solvent, expand social security.

 

There was a time not long ago that our retirements were held sacred, we could plan our golden years around them.

I guess nothing is sacred, they'll rob us of the value of our 401K plans (after virtually forcing us to invest), shrink Social Security, and now just cut or eliminate earnings invested into retirement plans.

How can they do this, Omaha Steve?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NYC_SKP (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:19 PM

13. I'm not Omaha Steve, but I can answer...

they are making a change to ERISA, which up until now protected retirees (and those with a vested pension) from benefit cuts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 09:31 PM

2. I agree!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 09:31 PM

3. Not to worry, Obama still has veto power

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 09:49 PM

5. Bwahahahahahahahahaha!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fumesucker (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 12:04 AM

18. I suspect they put this in the spending bill that has to be signed in 48 hours or the government

will shut down. Not much hope the President will veto it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jwirr (Reply #18)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:48 AM

31. Correct. I saw an article today saying the budget deal benefits Republicans...

think it was on Politico

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 09:38 PM

4. Time to start a pool

 

on when the pitchforks, torches, and ropes come out

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doctor_J (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 07:46 AM

26. I am sorry to say, my guess would be no time soon.

We don't seem to be a revolting people, so to speak.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Doctor_J (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:40 PM

45. When Americans can no longer get a new iWhatever.

It's gonna be a long time.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 09:59 PM

6. To many pension plans were burned by

 

State and County rule changes that allowed delayed payments due to budgetary short falls. Another one was the hit with worthless Mortgage Bonds rated AAA and not worth the paper there printed on. Just ran across a situation were a outside fund consultant f----d over a fund for millions and got probation. Walked away with 12m and a slap on the wrist. Meanwhile the fund members get zero.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Wellstone ruled (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 03:48 PM

43. A thinking person would have to ask what the quid pro quo for the judge

Happened to be on that one!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 10:11 PM

7. And a judge has gone back and forth - already agreed w/ the City of Stockton Calif. that it

May not be necessary to bother about terms of city employees pensions.

Full story on how this judge has gone back and forth, and theelgal repurcussions affect everyone who holds a pension through any of the many Calif governmental bodies.

http://abovethelaw.com/2014/11/despite-earlier-ruling-stockton-judge-confirms-plan-leaving-pension-obligations-intact/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 10:27 PM

8. I have been retired for 4 years now and have a defined benifit plan. Every year

the percentage of funding has dropped, it is obvious the company plans on dumping it on the PBGC. So does this mean
they can now reduce our benefits rather than default? What about the PBGC will they be able to also cut pensions? I have little faith in this President standing up to them and vetoing it. If the Republicans take the Whitehouse in 2016 the American working class is finished.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to doc03 (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 10:31 PM

9. PBGC already has the power to cut pensions



It will be a few days before detailed analysis is available on how this will play out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 10:46 PM

10. Im know the PBGC has cut some benfits that are above their limits

But can they cut your pension once you are receiving them. When they took over one of my pensions it was far under the limits at the time. I receive just $201 a month for 17 years service on that job.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to doc03 (Reply #10)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:15 PM

12. From their FAQ

"Q: What happens when PBGC takes over as trustee of my plan?

A: PBGC reviews your plan's records to determine the benefits each person will receive. The amount we pay is subject to limits set by law.

If you are already receiving a pension, we will continue paying you without interruption during our review. These payments are an estimate of the benefits that PBGC can pay under the insurance program. We will pay these benefits in the annuity form you chose at retirement, but they may be less than you were receiving from your plan."

(They did this to my Dad. Instead of the $1800/month he was supposed to get, he gets $120/month, thanks to the [7-pages of vulgarity deleted] Reagan and his Republicans...)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kwijybo (Reply #12)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:35 PM

17. Good lord! Theft. How on earth can they do that?

Last edited Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:51 AM - Edit history (1)

Rhetorical question. Don't bother replying, just know that I really feel for your dad. What they did should be criminal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #17)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:37 AM

23. Heck,

That was just the final screwing. What the bankruptcy judge allowed before that was truly criminal. You CAN be forced to work for a company for promissory notes, that can only be redeemed for stock (at pennies on the dollar) in a new company the CEO is starting (using the funds from the pension plan), to replace the company he bankrupted. I've always suspected this is the sort of thing you can do if you donate to the 'right' political party...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to kwijybo (Reply #23)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:56 AM

33. My father-in-law worked for a company for the last 33 years. He'll be accessing his pension in the

next couple. I'm afraid for him. They recently became a part of a much larger union that doesn't seem to represent his company employees quite as closely as the union they belonged to before. I know he has a 401k, but his planning for retirement including the date he will retire has been based on the idea of that pension being there. Frightening knowing that it can be negotiated away after taking concessions in pay for decades in order to bolster their retirement security. The pension offers little security at all in the end it would seem.

Sorry to hear about your dad's plight. Best of luck to him going forward.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Ed Suspicious (Reply #33)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:07 PM

44. We went on stike in 1995 for 10 1/2 months in order to get a

defined benefit pension plan. Now some SOBs in Washington make it legal to cut our benefits. Why haven't we heard a fucking word from the media, Congress, unions or AARP?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:09 PM

11. That Teamsters pension fund; office based in Rosemont has had numerous troubles

Nothing new don't see an end to their troubles either

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:19 PM

14. This is our tax breaks at work ...

Everyone wants the services, but nobody wants to pay for them.

Plus society now days are so selfish they see no reason to raise their taxes to fund anyones pension.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:25 PM

15. this is bullshit....if they can bail out the banks, they can bail out pension funds.

nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to antigop (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 12:12 AM

20. Exactly. Nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to antigop (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 12:31 AM

22. Absolutely. I Suppose Each Individual

Will have to Incorporate as a Financial Institution in order to be treated right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to antigop (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 07:25 AM

24. Well, no. See the banks were deserving. "Workers", not so much.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to antigop (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 02:22 PM

42. its not the same

The banks overall had the ability to repay the bailout money, and enough have done to that TARP has turned a profit.

How would a pension plan repay a bailout?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Tue Dec 9, 2014, 11:29 PM

16. This is one of the most despicable...

... frauds of our time. The nerve to take people's retirement savings away. It's theft. Outright theft. I don't care how they rationalize it. It's theft. High fucking crime.
Makes me want to spit nails.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ReRe (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 07:29 AM

25. I have a feeling they are not done yet. They will get social security.

Listen to their TV rhetoric. All we hear is how social security is going broke. Even though social security is the single fully funded part of government. This decision sets a precedent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Enthusiast (Reply #25)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 09:50 AM

34. You know...

... I don't like GHWB's "New World Order." It gives me a feeling that we're being led around by a rope laced thru a ring in our noses. We have absolutely NO idea what the future is going to look like when they are through, or if they will EVER be through. They (TPTB) are calling all the shots as they go along. Hell I don't think they even know where we are going! Our lives are not our own.

And if we don't get a majority of REAL Democrats back in power, you can bet your sweet bippy that Social Security AND Medicare will be on the chopping block. I was thinking about all this last night, and my mind did venture into the future. What I seen was NOT pretty. I envisioned a time when we will have "economic plagues." The elderly and the needy will die in their homes or in the streets from a combination of no food, no meds, no heat, no shelter at all, no insurance of ANY kind. It will look like the "black death" returned in full force right here on the continent of North America. And the only "pension" we'll have is what we have been able to save in a non-flammable trunk or mattress or in a hole in the ground.

I am convinced that The New World Order is not leading us in the right direction. We digress-ing, instead of progress-ing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ReRe (Reply #34)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:13 AM

39. Yep. Ol' GHWB warned us he was creating a New World Order. I like the old one better.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Enthusiast (Reply #39)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:22 AM

40. Well, I like the Old Order

... as far as economics go. And since we're picking and choosing, we can leave all that dysfunctional shite from the old order day in file #86 (i.e., in the trash can.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ReRe (Reply #16)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:42 AM

29. As long as they give the money the worker

 

Put into the retirement fund, the government/company is off the hook. They cannot keep the money the worker contributed to their retirement. That is why pensions went down from 1800 to 200 dollars. They took out the companies portion of the pension.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #29)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 09:53 AM

35. I thought...

... the contributions to retirement accounts were equal (1/2 by the employee and 1/2 by the employer?) And what happened to the contract? Does a contract not mean anything anymore?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #29)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:08 AM

38. That's what my company did

They killed our pensions and gave our share back. We had a choice of check (30% taxed), transfer to our 401K, or have it put into a trust fund of THEIR choosing. Senior employees were hurt the most. I would never have come to work here if I knew this was going to happen. Now I'm too old to leave.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 12:10 AM

19. What exactly would that mean? Hopefully they will get something!

 

They won't lose their pensions, will they? What a nightmare...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 12:25 AM

21. Pensions are deferred compensation.

When they cut or eliminate our defined pension plans, they are stealing from us. Meanwhile, the CEO and CFO are getting bonuses for saving the corporation money. They are counting on all of the beneficiaries being too old and poor to put up a fight. That is usually a good assessment to the situation. Politicians will do nothing to help, particularly republicans, who would just as soon everyone else just hurry up and die. In my opinion, it really is time to start taking heads.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 07:49 AM

27. I wish I could remember who posted about a "bail in" that seems to be coming down the pike.

Something about using depositors' funds to help out the poor dear banks.

Anyone else hear about that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to ReRe (Reply #36)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:05 AM

37. Thank you so much. This time I'll bookmark!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 07:55 AM

28. The need for lube and bending over has passed.

We are accustomed to getting it from all directions.

Cuts, cuts, cuts.

Are they baiting us for a revolution ???

Those with the least are forced to give up the most.

They are killing the very soul of this country.

Poverty, hunger, unemployment, underemployment, low wages, long hours, and homelessness for the masses.

I am so disillusioned and ashamed of my country's government !!!!!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:48 AM

30. and this is before the GOP takes over the Senate. We cannot blame all our woes on

the Republicans. We must demand accountability from the Democratic Party.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #30)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 10:31 AM

41. But but

 

Its the lesser of 2 evils! We can't be critical of our own team here! We are the LESSER evil!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 08:51 AM

32. "Supporters said it was part of an effort to prevent a slow-motion collapse of a system..."

Put into motion years ago.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Omaha Steve (Original post)

Wed Dec 10, 2014, 06:49 PM

46. Beyond sickening to sacrifice and defer compensation only to get hosed.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread