HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » What I Did After Police K...

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 12:41 PM

 

What I Did After Police Killed My Son

After police in Kenosha, Wis., shot my 21-year-old son to death outside his house ten years ago — and then immediately cleared themselves of all wrongdoing — an African-American man approached me and said: “If they can shoot a white boy like a dog, imagine what we’ve been going through.”

I could imagine it all too easily, just as the rest of the country has been seeing it all too clearly in the terrible images coming from Ferguson, Mo., in the aftermath of the killing of Michael Brown. On Friday, after a week of angry protests, the police in Ferguson finally identified the officer implicated in Brown's shooting, although the circumstances still remain unclear.

I have known the name of the policeman who killed my son, Michael, for ten years. And he is still working on the force in Kenosha.

Yes, there is good reason to think that many of these unjustifiable homicides by police across the country are racially motivated. But there is a lot more than that going on here. Our country is simply not paying enough attention to the terrible lack of accountability of police departments and the way it affects all of us—regardless of race or ethnicity. Because if a blond-haired, blue-eyed boy — that was my son, Michael — can be shot in the head under a street light with his hands cuffed behind his back, in front of five eyewitnesses (including his mother and sister), and his father was a retired Air Force lieutenant colonel who flew in three wars for his country — that’s me — and I still couldn’t get anything done about it, then Joe the plumber and Javier the roofer aren’t going to be able to do anything about it either.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/08/what-i-did-after-police-killed-my-son-110038.html


60 replies, 6600 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 60 replies Author Time Post
Reply What I Did After Police Killed My Son (Original post)
Man from Pickens Dec 2014 OP
KG Dec 2014 #1
Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #3
AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #4
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #8
AtheistCrusader Dec 2014 #12
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #18
woo me with science Dec 2014 #28
druidity33 Dec 2014 #32
Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #34
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #36
bettyellen Dec 2014 #39
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #40
grahampuba Dec 2014 #51
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #58
Nay Dec 2014 #52
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #57
Nay Dec 2014 #59
Scuba Dec 2014 #47
TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #49
L0oniX Mar 2015 #60
bettyellen Dec 2014 #38
Nay Dec 2014 #53
bettyellen Dec 2014 #56
Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #13
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #15
Hatchling Dec 2014 #23
Major Nikon Dec 2014 #37
daleanime Dec 2014 #14
Brigid Dec 2014 #16
Warren Stupidity Dec 2014 #17
RoccoR5955 Dec 2014 #45
Brigid Dec 2014 #10
CrispyQ Dec 2014 #22
Nay Dec 2014 #54
dixiegrrrrl Dec 2014 #2
world wide wally Dec 2014 #5
Man from Pickens Dec 2014 #6
cleduc Dec 2014 #7
jwirr Dec 2014 #9
sabrina 1 Dec 2014 #11
woo me with science Dec 2014 #31
Nay Dec 2014 #55
mulsh Dec 2014 #19
cpamomfromtexas Dec 2014 #44
joeybee12 Dec 2014 #20
The Blue Flower Dec 2014 #21
TBF Dec 2014 #24
treestar Dec 2014 #25
Pacifist Patriot Dec 2014 #27
Pacifist Patriot Dec 2014 #26
ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2014 #29
GeorgeGist Dec 2014 #33
ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2014 #35
Tsiyu Dec 2014 #42
TheKentuckian Dec 2014 #50
woo me with science Dec 2014 #30
Tsiyu Dec 2014 #41
seveneyes Dec 2014 #43
undeterred Dec 2014 #46
LittleGirl Dec 2014 #48

Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 12:57 PM

1. We live in a police state. end of story.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to KG (Reply #1)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 01:20 PM

3. no no no! Where's Hitler?

 

We've been over this a thousand times. We get to vote for either of two ass kissing corporate shills plus there is no hitler. So no police state.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 01:52 PM

4. It hurts because it's true. :(

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #4)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:10 PM

8. "Police state" is a gross exaggeration

If you look at no-shit police states both now (North Korea) and historically, we are nowhere close.

What we do have is an overly aggressive militarized police force with very little accountability and a general public that just doesn't care so long as far more black men are being killed than white.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:22 PM

12. I tend to think of it as a spectrum of problems.

I wouldn't trade my problems with North Korea, but they're still problems.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:48 PM

18. Certainly they are genuine and serious problems which a civilized society needs to address

I would even go so far as to say an aggressive and overly militarized police force is a real potential threat to democracy.

When police forces are being used to further partisan politician goals, then you have a police state.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #18)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 04:03 PM

28. Yes, a police state is being constructed around us. And yes, it's used to further political goals

Last edited Fri Dec 5, 2014, 05:24 PM - Edit history (2)

and defend our corporate oligarchy and its corruption. It's a corporate-authoritarian state being very carefully and deliberately constructed around us.

All these indignant denials take the same form:

There's no Hitler, we're not being burned alive in ovens, or we're still typing on the internet, or we aren't being lined up in the streets and shot (well, that one's certainly debatable, isn't it...).

As though the corporate owners of the United States of America, who rely on its reputation as the beacon of freedom and democracy in the world, can't find more effective and less politically damaging means to make sure dissent never materializes into anything seriously threatening to the PTB.

Psst. Our president has a "Kill List." And indefinite detention. And a surveillance state. And an entire secret government, secret laws and secret courts, operating alongside the one we are taught about in school. And all it takes to become part of that is for someone to invoke the word, "terrorism" and relate it to you.

"But that's a high bar!" all the sensible woodchucks will protest. "I TRUST my president! And it's only for TERRORISTS!"

Really? And do you trust the next one?

Actually, we're all being spied on. And "terrorism" is being invoked as a weapon against political dissent.

Report Details How Counter Terrorism Apparatus Was Used to Monitor Occupy Movement Nationwide
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12527647

Whoop, There It Is... 'Evidence Homeland Security Coordinated Occupy Crackdown' -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002462465

ACLU discovers FBI is labeling peace activists as 'potential terrorists'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4500788

And the most sinister aspect of all of this is the fact that the language of terrorism and espionage is being actively expanded to include whatever citizens or groups the corporatists consider to be irritants: political enemies, protesters, even journalists.

Protestors against Energy Company charged with terrorism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024175848

Mission Creep: When Everything is Terrorism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023279560

US Uses Espionage Act To Convict Manning Using Words Added In 1990: "with a computer"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023375845

Fed Court: Just changed interpretation of Espionage Act to cover leaks that are NOT Harmful To USA
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023365713

NY Times: White House Uses Espionage Act to Silence Employees, Press
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101616764

Obama Has Charged More Under Espionage Act Than All Other Presidents Combined
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023080388

If you are a One Percenter trying to effectively use the government you have purchased to manage unpleasant press about what you are doing, what do you do? Well, one tactic might be to try to get the government into the business of deciding who is a journalist. That way you can claim to establish "protections" for whistleblowers, when what you are actually doing is creating categories through which you can exclude from protection those you don't want to protect.



Yeah, journalism isn't doing too well in this country. One might say it is being murdered. There's a reason it's supposed to be protected by the First Amendment. That reason is not compatible with increasingly totalitarian corporate control.

Petition Calls On Obama Stop Intimidation Of Journalists And Whistleblowers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025509395

Why Is President Obama Keeping a Journalist in Prison in Yemen
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023300531

James Clapper Calls Journalists "Criminal Accomplices" -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017174990

Reporters without Borders: 'Security interests threaten press freedom'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11333723

US Plummets In Press Freedom Rankings
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024487392

Obama's escalating war on Freedom of the Press
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023314296

Risen Case: War on Journalism coming to a head
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101699216

Government Surveillance Is Crippling Press Freedoms, Report Shows
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023902153


So....you shut up the journalists.

And you shut up the protesters.

Who else do you need to shut up?

Ah....all the people who work for the government, many of whom can be assumed to still have consciences and thus be potentially dangerous to the corporate coup of democracy. How do you handle them?

Well, you can fire them. See, it's *useful* for the government of an ostensibly free nation to have highly visible groups engaged in protest...like the Black Panthers, etc....and not to deny them employment or do anything serious to them. It gives the illusion of freedom. But look what we learned of recently, about how firings happen at the Federal Reserve:


But you can also wage legal war against their power to function as whistleblowers. And you assault the unions that protect them.

The Obama administration/DOJ war on whistleblowers, federal unions
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5586389

You can institute draconian snitch rules to intimidate those who might be thinking about whistleblowing:

President's 'rat out your co-worker' plan unlikely to work, experts say
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023214675

And you claim the right to spy on them even at home.

You let the dissent flourish, as long as it's safe dissent. But you take care of the stuff that has the potential to be truly threatening. Most importantly, you make a vicious example of those who carry through with revealing corruption:

Daniel Ellsburg: Snowden would not get a fair trial today, was right to flee US
http://www.democraticunderground.com/11784497
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023198130

Bradley Manning: top US legal scholars voice outrage at torture
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x871563

That includes those who whistleblow on financial institutions, not just the government. Since you're not prosecuting the banking criminals, you have plenty of time to send up a guy who tried to identify them:

Bradley Birkenfeld, UBS Whistleblower, Finds Himself in Federal Prison
http://www.cnbc.com//id/41257962

It's a delicate line to walk, all this intimidation while still claiming to be the beacon of freedom for the world. But the intimidation is necessary, because people are starting to catch on.

No, nobody has sent the jackboots to line up the protesters in front of everyone and methodically kill them. But we're seeing the next best thing.

Militarizing the hell out of the police departments. That way it's blamed on some "programs"....but it sends a clear psychological message to the upstarts.

Stopping police militarization: Once again, the solution requires confronting corporate politicians.
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10025416709

Federal grants drive the militarization of police departments in America.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025383806

And then you get this:


And this:


Three of the five Occupy violence pics I used to use regularly now I cannot find anywhere on the internet; if I could, I'd put them here, too. The elderly woman tear-gassed, the mobs of jackbooted storm troopers surrounding a few people on a blanket...

And, meanwhile, out in the community, the militarized police are starting to terrorize ordinary citizens, mostly the impoverished and voiceless ones. But the corporate-controlled federal government keeps sending the hardware and the storm trooper uniforms, even encouraging it with grants, and they refuse to keep records on how many citizens have been murdered. How many were there this week?

"What I've Learned from Two Years Collecting Data on Police Killings...
...I'm convinced to my core: The lack of such a database is intentional."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025429276

Twenty-Three People Killed by American Police in the Span of One Week
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025593137

We're all suspects, potential terrorists now. and the mechanisms are in place to ensure that any dissent that begins to bubble up can be handled and eliminated before it materializes in any serious way.

The truth is that you don't know what dissent may have already been cut off at the root, because of the elaborate, secret, unaccountable system that has been put into place. We know that the president has sought the power to lie in response to Freedom of Information requests. We know that data collected from NSA spying has been used to imprison Americans using false evidence trails. We know that the CIA can spy on the Senate Intelligence Committee with impunity and nothing is done about it, and that Clapper can lie to Congress and the Department of Justice can lie to the Supreme Court about spying and nothing is done. These are just the things we know.

DEA Manuals Show Feds Use NSA Spy Data, Train Cops to Construct False Chains of Evidence
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4507611

Obama Admin Seeks Permission TO LIE In Response To Freedom of Information Requests - Even To The COURTS
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2185303

DOJ lied to Supreme Court about domestic surveillance
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140514/06214727229/doj-still-trying-to-hide-fact-it-flat-out-lied-to-supreme-court-about-domestic-surveillance.shtml

The sensible woodchucks keep telling us that someone has to be actively involved in VERY SERIOUS TERRORISM against the United States of America in order for our government to start throwing *that* word around, or showing an interest in us. But we are all surveilled, and the methods for it keep expanding. If you think about it, it's GOOD for corporate control to have people posting dissent on the internet. It helps you know whom to watch. Voiced dissent is USEFUL as long as it doesn't lead to anything...you know, serious. Our corporate government is keeping an eye on us.


OKC protestors slapped with terrorism charges
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024175848

A Nation of "Suspects"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5011487
http://www.truth-out.org/nation-suspects/1314810046

American Protesters Declared Enemy for Weapons Testing Purposes; Rules of Engagement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2132808#2139011

DoD Training Manual: Protests are "Low-Level Terrorism"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100227662

Ridiculous FBI list: You might be a domestic terrorist if...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1790765

Doctors asked to identify potential terrorists under government plans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1261120&mesg_id=1261120

Do You Like Online Privacy? You May Be a Terrorist
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002257966

Top US counterterrorism official: drone critics are Al Qaeda enablers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002279862

"Arrogant complaining about airport security is one indicator Transportation Security Administration officers consider when looking for possible criminals and terrorists"
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/04/15/tsa.screeners.complain/

N.S.A. Examines Social Networks of U.S. Citizens (Decision Made In Secret, in 2010)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014605329




Now, you tell me.

Why would the corporatists who have purchased into our government and rely on its reputation as the beacon of freedom and democracy for the world, use such heavy-handed and politically damaging tactics as shutting down the internet or ostentatiously lining up protesters to shoot them in the streets, when they have already put into place and legalized this elegant system to control dissent?

Yeah, I'm typing on the internet. That PROVES we're free.








Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 05:18 PM

32. one HELL of a post Woo...

thank you for laying it all out. Bookmarking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 05:43 PM

34. That deserves its own thread

 

your post... a thing of beauty

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #28)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 08:37 PM

36. Here's the problem with your theory

Everything you described is the result of an uninformed and apathetic electorate voting against their best interests. Like it or not the people are still free to vote for corporate interests (or not) if they so desire and the police aren't being used to strong-arm people into doing so. When force isn't being used, we all get exactly the government we deserve.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #36)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 08:47 PM

39. Ah, this goes hand in hand with sexism = women's fault / what we want or deserve....

 

What a pantload.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bettyellen (Reply #39)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 08:53 PM

40. Pantload

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 12:48 PM

51. close

you are also conflating terms.
you are confusing uninformed with misinformed by way of pervasive propaganda that would by most definitions qualify as psy-ops.

the people who you claim to be uninformed most likely consider themselves informed. Not to say there is not an abundance of apathy, but I'd say we more so lack empathy by way of the propaganda stream.

and why would you need to put on such a blatant display of power of strong arming voters when your propaganda is effective and then, barring effective propaganda campaigns, also have the ability to alter or disappear votes that would represent the few opposing citizens you have not been able to disenfranchise through the same system.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to grahampuba (Reply #51)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 01:42 PM

58. I pick my words carefully

If the right information isn't available, then misinformed might be accurate. When the right information is available, then apathy seems to be an accurate description for those who are uninformed, and "psy-ops" is another gross exaggeration for politics which haven't changed much since there's been politicians.

Your question is quite valid. Why would anyone need to put on such a blatant display of power and create a "police state" when the nation can be convinced to vote a certain way with a campaign that need not go any deeper than what fits on a bumper sticker?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #36)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 12:51 PM

52. But we voted Obama in to dial down the wars and the spying, only to find

that he is pushing for even more spying, etc. It's hard to blame the voters when both parties, as they gain office, act in the same way. We are not free to NOT vote for corporate interests because anyone with the money to run a campaign has already been bought and paid for by -- corporate interests.

It will be interesting to see if voters go wild in 2016 and go for Sanders or someone similar. Or maybe they won't show up at all because they don't see how voting will change anything....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #52)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 01:31 PM

57. Which only proves that we are a nation of low interest voters

...that aren't smart enough to recognize sloganeering and demagoguery. The police didn't elect Obama or contribute positively or negatively to his campaign in any way. Why would anyone need a "police state" under those conditions?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #57)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 02:00 PM

59. I 'm not sure what you're getting at here.

First, the U.S. public is not appreciably more or less smarter than any other group of citizens anywhere. MOST groups of people "aren't smart enough to recognize sloganeering and demagoguery" -- refer to Edward Bernays, any psych manual, any advertising agency. If sloganeering didn't work, there'd be no such network as Fox. There'd be no ads anywhere. There wouldn't be the farcical 'debates' we suffer through every election season.

Second, the police are more conservative individually than the rest of the population, so no, they aren't going to vote for a black man for president, esp a black man being smeared as a socialist on Fox. They would certainly not vote for him because they wanted a police state! They vote for the Republican who is more likely to give them that!

Why would anyone need a police state under those conditions? Well, they wouldn't, of course. It is arriving by stealth, not by coup, and not by votes. It's the difference between the police state in Orwell's 1984 and the police state in Huxley's Brave New World. We'll likely be more comfortable and be able to keep our toys in the brave new world, but it's still a police state.

IMO, the U.S. suffers from a severe lack of true leadership. Any sincere leader is handicapped by the need for millions of dollars to run a campaign; the media, which can highlight or hide gaffes, 'screams,' and broadcast outright lies, etc., to tilt the playing field deliberately; voting machine irregularities; deliberate vote suppression by Republicans. The idea that the people themselves can fix all this is pretty weak in practice. For sure, more people are going to have to be living under bridges before things change any.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 11:31 AM

47. +1 on the "OP of its own" reply. Thanks woo!

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #28)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 12:25 PM

49. That was like the Death Star of posts! Blasting away at the bullshit with an unimaginable magnitude

of laser focused power.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #28)

Sun Mar 1, 2015, 12:01 PM

60. more here ...yea that's right ...I saved this stuff ...I think it was one of your posts.

 

What is the NSA really for?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024215519

"Clear evidence of collusion between TransCanada and the federal government assisting local police to unlawfully monitor and harass political protestors”
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023049508

Corporate Espionage and the Secret War Against Citizen Activism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111643982

NSA Spying Not Very Focused on Terrorism: Power, Money and Crushing Dissent Are Real Motives Ops
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023923016

Keiser Report: CIA, NSA & Economic Espionage (E498) (second half with Greg Palast)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017146372

Spooky Business: Corporate Espionage Against Non-profits
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024106205

NSA data could be most useful for connected types on Wall Street.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022983519

NSA spied on EU's Anti Trust Chief
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024204596

2011: Wall Street firms spy on protesters with police in tax-funded center
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023286585

OUTRAGEOUS: Our Tax Money Funds Gov Surveillance Center In Lower Manhattan--& Wall St IsPart Of It!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2178769

Report Details How Counter Terrorism Apparatus Was Used to Monitor Occupy Movement Nationwide
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12527647

NSA Monitors Porn Habits To Discredit 'Radicalizers'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024099994

How FBI Monitored Occupy Movement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101651867

FBI started surveillance of Occupy before it occupied
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10022930860

Wall Street Protesters Complain of Police Surveillance
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101618930

Whoop, There It Is... 'Evidence Homeland Security Coordinated Occupy Crackdown' -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002462465

ACLU discovers FBI is labeling peace activists as 'potential terrorists'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4500788

Why is FBI Manufacturing Reasons to Arrest Occupy Protesters, Ignoring White Supremacist Violence
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12522821

DHS Tracked Occupy Wall Street to 'Control Protesters
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101463537

'Occupy' crackdowns coordinated with federal law enforcement officials
http://www.examiner.com/top-news-in-minneapolis/were-occupy-crackdowns-aided-by-federal-law-enforcement-agencies

FBI uses new powers to bug anti-war groups
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x237625

ACLU: FBI instructs police to suppress peaceful protests
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x253574

Ridiculous FBI list: You might be a domestic terrorist if ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1790765

American Protesters Declared Enemy for Weapons Testing Purposes; Rules of Engagement
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2132808#2139011

DoD Training Manual: Protests are "Low-Level Terrorism"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100227662

NSA, DEA fabricating evidence trails to imprison Americans using spying.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023406605

ACLU: On revenge and the NSA
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023491532

On the Espionage Act charges against Edward Snowden Glenn Greenwald
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023066929

US Uses Espionage Act To Convict Manning Using Words Added In 1990: "with a computer"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023375845

Fed Court: Just changed interpretation of Espionage Act to cover leaks that are NOT Harmful To USA
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023365713

Obama's abuse of the Espionage Act is modern-day McCarthyism
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023413935

NY Times: White House Uses Espionage Act to Silence Employees, Press
http://www.democraticunderground.com/101616764

Obama Has Charged More Under Espionage Act Than All Other Presidents Combined
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023080388

A Nation of "Suspects"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x5011487
http://www.truth-out.org/nation-suspects/1314810046

That magic word, "terrorism." The government's identification of those needing further scrutiny
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022730456#post13

Do You Like Online Privacy? You May Be a Terrorist
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002257966

"Arrogant complaining about airport security is one indicator Transportation Security Administration officers consider when looking for possible criminals and terrorists"
http://www.cnn.com/2011/TRAVEL/04/15/tsa.screeners.complain/

Top US counterterrorism official: drone critics are Al Qaeda enablers
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002279862

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to AtheistCrusader (Reply #12)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 08:45 PM

38. the same people will tell you sexism is not an issue because we're not Saudi Arabia, LOL.

 

In other words , STFU and pretend everything is rosy, women and POC.
That shit gets old, does it not?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bettyellen (Reply #38)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 12:54 PM

53. Exactly! And then when we get ordered into burkas, they say, "Who could have

knoooooooown!!?!!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Nay (Reply #53)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 01:10 PM

56. no need for hyperbole, when so many women have no access to reproductive choice, but thanks

 

this extreme black and white crap does not help.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:29 PM

13. If the cops can accost anyone for any reason and demand papers

 

then you have a police state

it doesn't have to be as explicit as North Korea's to be one

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Reply #13)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:42 PM

15. I don't agree

Nobody is legally required to carry ID in the first place.

The term "police state" can mean anything anyone wants, but if you can't compare our society with present or historical police states then it's hard to image how the term can reasonably apply. The term generally means an authoritarian government that uses the police force to consolidate power and that's not what our police do. They are simply allowed to run amok so long as the people they are oppressing are mostly minorities.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #15)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 03:46 PM

23. Try not having id if the police as for.

It's not pleasant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Hatchling (Reply #23)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 08:40 PM

37. I can't think of any dealings with police that are pleasant

Which is a good case for reeling in the police and demanding responsibility and accountability.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:29 PM

14. Such nice company to keep....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:47 PM

16. Since cops can shoot and kill people with impunity . . .

On the flimsiest of pretexts, I do not see calling this a police state is an exaggeration, much less a "gross exaggeration".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #8)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:48 PM

17. Kim Jung * maps to Hitler.

 

Thanks for proving my point.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 10:33 AM

45. Not a Police State? Look at Occupy Wall Street!

 

When the police threw the people out of Zuccati Park, and other places, all at the same time, this was not the action of a Police State?
Think again, my friend. We are not at the state of North Korea, but we are quickly approaching it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #3)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:17 PM

10. Apparently all you really need to have a police state . . .

Is a nonfunctional government and and out of control police force. You don't actually need a dictator.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Brigid (Reply #10)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 03:44 PM

22. Corporate is the new dictator. -nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to CrispyQ (Reply #22)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 01:04 PM

54. Another good point. Present police states certainly don't have to resemble

historical police states. Police states in the past used powerful leaders, thousands of spies in every neighborhood, police run amok. We're getting the 'police run amok' part going, but we have replaced the 'strong leader' and 'thousands of spies' with anonymous corporate control and vast electronic surveillance. The surveillance we are under today is an order of magnitude higher than any surveillance in the past, even the recent past. It also is invisible to most of those surveiled, so they aren't alarmed -- it's not like there's a shadowy STASI agent standing outside under the streetlight, looking up at your window. You won't know anything until they bust your door in at 2 a.m.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 12:58 PM

2. Gulp. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 01:53 PM

5. Very few of us are legal experts in here, except for those with law degrees, but we all

pretty much know the laws we need to know to get by in this country. And if we don't, we can usually look them up.
Now, can anybody tell me exactly what rules cops play by?
I grew up thinking that the same laws applied to everyone and we were all "supposed to be" equal under the law for better or worse. But now I see that police get to play by a completely different set of rules. Can anybody tell me where to find them so I don't get myself shot?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to world wide wally (Reply #5)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 01:57 PM

6. "Shelter in place"

 

and pray they don't find a reason to target you while you are cowering in your home, with the lights off, hoping they don't notice that you exist

it goes something like that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:04 PM

7. Awesome response to the worst thing a parent

 

can experience - the loss of their child.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:16 PM

9. I think it is of value to recognize that black men are the majority of the people target because

that is the only way that we get the civil rights unit of the Justice Department involved. But I also want this to include other people who have been unfairly targeted - the homeless, mentally ill, other disabled people etc. If the others are not included we are not seeing the whole picture. The police forces in this country are out of control and need to be stopped.


Sorry about your son.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:18 PM

11. Our Government has placed the police above the law. That is what we have learned

For a short while I thought that when the justice system broke down at the state level, as in Ferguson and now in NY, we could rely on the Federal Govt to administer some kind of accountability. But then I did some research and I found out that when it comes to Killer Cops, that is not the case. It is extremely rare for the Federal Govt to convict a cop.

We are treated to all kinds of excuses 'he smoked pot' eg when it is clear they cannot claim their lives were in danger. The demonization of the victim begins.

Watch how gingerly all of our elected officials address these murders by police? Has even one of them just spoken out boldly about the FACTS that are available for anyone who cares to spend a little time finding them?

What I found out was that the militarization of the police, eg, is the work of Congress and Homeland Security.

The cops view the American people as the enemy and it appears our government likes it that way.

So cops will continue to murder US Citizens with no accountability until the ENTIRE SYSTEM is changed.

Wilson's excuse for the murder of Michael Brown was 'I followed my training'. That was supposed to assuage the anger of the people.

What it must do is to take his word for it, that his training is a huge threat to public safety obviously. And then begin the process of reforming the entire system.

But will that happen? We'll see, but I doubt it. We will hear platitudes so long as the protests continue, but behind the scenes, I doubt there is any agreement that they system THEY set up, needs to be changed at all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #11)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 04:41 PM

31. Well said.

Yes, it is federally driven, and, yes, it is part of the larger corporate authoritarian state being built around us.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #11)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 01:09 PM

55. Another excellent point. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 02:55 PM

19. "IF they do this to one person they can do this to any one of us" gets blank stares

from most of the people I've said it to. Most of them say "but you're not black" as if that is what is important.

That's what disturbs me most about the recent attention to murderous police. We ceded way too much power to people in relative authority and are finally being made painfully aware of the price.

We as a country need to grab back most of that power. It may be too late bit if we don't try it will definitely be too late.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mulsh (Reply #19)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 10:29 AM

44. You are so right. I dared ask a question the other night

but apparently I wasn't dark enough to ask that question.

I've come to a lot of conclusions lately regarding that fact.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 03:15 PM

20. Nice how none of the media got back to him...

 

Boy are they worthless...glad this guy turned this into something positive.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 03:41 PM

21. Title is misleading

All I got out of the article was that the author finally had to resign himself to the reality that cops aren't held accountable for the murder of citizens.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to The Blue Flower (Reply #21)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 03:48 PM

24. He got the law passed in Wisconsin -

I've read about this (originally from Wis) and Scott Walker actually signed it into law. BUT I have read in stories that there have been cases of shootings where cops have turned off their cameras. So, it they are allowed to turn them off why bother?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 03:50 PM

25. Something's fishy

I can believe her son was shot but not that the cop was not charged for it if it happened as she says.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to treestar (Reply #25)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 03:55 PM

27. Well attested story and the author is the victim's father.

I recommend the article in its entirety. Good stuff there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 04:04 PM

29. The policeman who shot this kid committed suicide

http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/106478678.html

He was a lot harder on himself than his department was, apparently.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 05:24 PM

33. That guy wasn't he shooter.

It does help to read more than headlines ... even when you're a conservative.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #33)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 07:49 PM

35. Oh, you're right. I missed that.

- C.D. Proud Member of the Reality Based Community

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ConservativeDemocrat (Reply #29)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 08:58 PM

42. Do Conservatives just make crap up?

Sure seems like it.

No, that cop was actually the only one ever found guilty before the new law. Albert Gonzalez is the cop who shot Michael, and he's still on the force 10 years later.

CAN YOU READ?????????

Stop picking shit out to fit your agenda.

It gets so goddamned fucking aggravating to read the bullshit and lies conservatives constantly spread. Seriously.

Y'all should take some reading comprehension courses.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tsiyu (Reply #42)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 12:47 PM

50. Yes, conservatives as a matter of course just make shit up and distort what isn't whole cloth.

It may even be the current functioning definition of conservative.

It is funny that they like to call themselves reality based when the more conservative you are the more thumbing your nose at reality one must do. A 6,000 year old world, Voodoo Economics, racism, anti tax zealotry, sexisim, Jesus riding a dinosaur, you name it they got plenty of some crazy, mad bullshit for ya.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 04:10 PM

30. K&R The police state is deliberately constructed around us.

It is as much a part of the corporate takeover as mass surveillance, the murder of investigative journalism, indefinite detention, persecution of whistleblowers, propaganda machines...

Ferguson is a corporate-exploited community...one of many, many more to come under corporate fascist rule.

Yes, we have a carefully designed, deliberately constructed police state growing up around us.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5915944



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 08:55 PM

41. So This dad has to know Albert Gonzalez the murderer

who killed his son is free to roam around and do whatever he likes.

How do you live with that as a parent?


How do people like Albert Gonzalez in Kenosha get up every day and not collapse in horror at what terrible, evil human beings they are?


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Fri Dec 5, 2014, 09:03 PM

43. Experiencing violent death with personal involvement is often illuminating

 

It can be very burdensome to contain within. Understanding misunderstandings has a small window to see the bigger picture.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 10:37 AM

46. A man who went into the wrong house after a night of drinking was killed by a cop

in Madison WI in 2012. White man, white cop.

Yes, people are scared when a stranger comes into their home. But this is the kind of situation police should be trained to handle. The officer involved had a bad history.

This case also did a lot to get the law passed.

http://host.madison.com/news/local/crime_and_courts/newly-released-police-records-shed-additional-light-on-paul-heenan/article_315e18ac-82e0-11e2-b277-0019bb2963f4.html

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Man from Pickens (Original post)

Sat Dec 6, 2014, 12:13 PM

48. terrible story. thanks for the link. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread