Looks like the Zimmerman prosecution might have a bunch of holes

[dkf]

The key to the performance, though, was O'Mara's battle scene with investigator Dale Gilbreath. He got up and questioned Gilbreath so much about the affidavit that the investigator came off looking like a fool. First, Gilbreath admitted he wasn't aware of any inquiry to Trayvon Martin's father as to whether he could identify the voice heard screaming in the 911 calls as his son's. Gilbreath also admitted that he does not know who started the fight, does not have evidence to prove who started the fight and does not have evidence to contradict Zimmerman's statement that Martin started the fight. He also testified he does not have evidence to contradict Zimmerman's assertion that he turned back around to walk to his car. O'Mara also laid into Gilbreath over the use of "profiling" in the affidavit and the claim that Zimmerman "continued to follow" Martin even after he was told by a dispatcher not to. This claim that he "continued to follow" is key to the case, because it helps the prosecution prove he had an intent to kill, which is grounds for a 2nd degree murder conviction.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mari-fagel/george-zimmerman-bond-hearing_b_1441261.html

[pnwmom]

1. Holes because of the shoddy police work -- like not bothering to get blood alcohol from Zimmerman,

among other things.

[tabatha]

2. I don't think the prosecution wants to give O'Mara any advantage in the trial.

But WFTV-Channel 9 legal analyst Bill Sheaffer wasn’t critical of the prosecution. “The state wants to present only that evidence necessary to meet the burden that has been placed upon them at the time,” he said.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_tv_tvblog/2012/04/george-zimmerman-mark-omara-impresses-state-doesnt.html

[Solomon]

3. Exactly. It was only a bail hearing for christ sake.

All the investigator said in essence is what they all have to say: none of them saw the crime. Big deal. That doesn't mean that because a cop didnt see it ergo, we have to believe Zimmerman's account. That's absurd. Prosecutors would almost never convict if the requirement is they have to have witnessed the crime.

Once again, another false goalpost.

That's like another poster in another thread who implied that Trayvon's girlfriend's statement doesn't count because it wasn't taped. That's absurd. There wouldn't be many witnesses in anything if the requirement is that what they testify to had to be taped. It's absurd.

[JI7]

6. could they use stuff that Zimmerman said in this hearing during the trial ?

like how he said he thought Trayvon was older and closer to his(zimmerman's age) but on the police call Zimmerman described Trayvon was a teen.

[magical thyme]

10. yes.

Absolutely. Every contradiction in Zimmerman's and his witness's testimony becomes fair game for the prosecution. The police call was what he really thought.

The opposite is also true, of course. Which is why the prosecution only said as much as needed to be said at this hearing. Every time you open your mouth, there's a chance you will accidentally contradict yourself. That is why Zimmy is such a tough client. He won't shut up until the trial. Same as his family trying to bias the public and potential jurors. Every time his father opens his yap about what his son told him or what injuries he saw, he opens a big can of worms. He's already lied under oath about what injuries he claims to have seen, because the cuts in the photo are horizontal, not vertical.

[Thinkingabout]

4. The hearing was about granting bail

And was not intended for any one witness to present the facts at this time. The 911 calls was not introduced with time line and much more evidence was not presented at this hearing. And there is still a jury to make their decision.

[Cali_Democrat]

5. You are aware that this was just a bond hearing, right?

The prosecution wasn't presenting a case. Although, it's you're right to try and keep hope alive.

Fingers crossed?

Yup.

[Solomon]

8. Lol. I started to say that. The op is definitely "keep

hope alive". Lol

[CreekDog]

11. The OP is has consistent concern that Zimmerman isn't being treated right

You would think that concern would have extended to Trayvon Martin. But you would be wrong.

[dkf]

13. Can't change what happened to Martin.

Right now I am interested in getting a fair trial for a Hispanic man.

[Ikonoklast]

18. HAHAHAHAHHHAAAA!!

Oh, God, thanks for that laugh!

I really needed one today!

You fool no one, but, please, keep wasting your time.

[Life Long Dem]

36. Yeah... who needs rights to a fair trial

How silly

[Ikonoklast]

86. If you actually believe the poster I replied to gives two shits about a downtrodden 'minority',

I have a bridge for sale.

And who mentioned anything about Zimmerman NOT getting a fair trial?

I certainly did not.

[maddezmom]

20. oh brother

[The Magistrate]

23. This One Is Past Its Sell-By Date, Ma'am

It should not linger longer on the shelves....

[TBF]

118. Best comment in the thread. nt

[Gold Metal Flake]

156. Agree. But,some linger on, oddly.

If you know what I mean <snicker>.

[Solomon]

43. Lol. I had a co-worker explain that arresting Zimmerman

won't bring Trayvon back. My response was fine, let's just let all murderers go free because convicting them won't ever bring the victims back.

[CatWoman]

22. and some of us are concerned about a young black boy getting justice

because he was hunted down and brutally murdered by a Hispanic man.

[dkf]

30. It might not be possible because of the particulars of the law.

The thing is you may believe George Zimmerman's story from beginning to end and still expect him to be convicted, because you don't agree with Florida law.

I frankly think that is where a lot of people are.

[CatWoman]

39. and because of the "particulars of the law"

you're more worried about this goon mother fucker getting a fair trial, opposed to justice for the person this worthless son of a bitch murdered?

[dkf]

47. What you want may be extra-judicial.

[Scuba]

90. Your ass is showing.

[dkf]

93. Charles Blow ackowledged that Justice and the legal may not dovetail.

To ask for justice may be beyond what the law can do.

[SwampG8r]

112. i am not in this fight

i am still waithing for the facts to be shown
but
would'nt a fair trial for george zimmerman be the same thing as justice for trayvon martin?

[CatWoman]

123. I'm trying to show that at least I put my feelings and beliefs out there

and don't try to hide behind this "wanting a fair triall" bullshit, which is advocated by the person I responded to.

A fair trial is the least of that person's concerns. The only thing that person is concerned with is fault finding and cheer leading for all things Zimmerman.

Justice IS my primary concern.

And if this doesn't answer your question, that's not my concern.

[SwampG8r]

137. yes maam fully answered

i am always on justice side too

[ScreamingMeemie]

49. What I would like to see is a stalker and murderer jailed. Regardless of his race.

Thank you.

[Arkana]

151. I don't believe Zimmerman's story. He's a racist and a murderer, and he should rot

in a jail cell.

[NNN0LHI]

25. ...

[CreekDog]

42. Now you're referring to him as Hispanic...and then why did you advocate for Arizona's Immig. Bill?

which is overwhelmingly opposed by Hispanics? which would lead to unfair profiling against Hispanics?

then you mocked Navajos for opposing the same bill:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8372690&mesg_id=8374069

and you were against the mosque in New York.

but this one time, you're concerned for someone who is the minority?

[maddezmom]

44. interesting isn't it

[obamanut2012]

89. oh ho very interesting

[LanternWaste]

142. a handful of tells are worth more poker chips than a handful of words...

In poker, we call these unconscious behaviors 'tells'. And a handful of tells are worth far more poker chips than a handful of words...

[obamanut2012]

88. omg

[Iggo]

96. .

[Hassin Bin Sober]

150. LOL

[Whisp]

52. I think some of the concern may be for

Zimmerman and his gunnery condition. Nasty disease, I hear.

[kudzu22]

7. I didn't jump to conclusions

to assume Zim was guilty, and I'm not jumping to the conclusion that he'll walk now either. We haven't seen all the evidence yet. We don't know what the prosecution has; we don't know what the defense has. All we have is overhyped media coverage.

I'm going to wait and see what comes out in court. That's kinda the whole point of court.

[no_hypocrisy]

9. The main point is that Trayvon Martin didn't approach Zimmerman. It was the other way around.

Zimmerman was told by the police dispatcher to stop following Martin and he didn't. You can't claim STG and/or self defense if you set up your own dangerous situation.

It's one of two situations:
Either Zimmerman attacked Martin without provocation from Martin or Zimmerman initiated a situation with Martin who defended himself against Zimmerman, and Zimmerman turning it around that he was defending himself against Martin.

[dkf]

15. Zimmerman said he lost him then Martin approached.

That is what O'Mara got the lead investigator to admit, that they had no evidence to disprove Zimmerman's account that Martin approached him.

"Investigator Dale Gilbreath testified that he does not know whether Martin or Zimmerman threw the first punch and that there is no evidence to disprove Zimmerman's contention he was walking back to his vehicle when confronted by Martin"

http://news.yahoo.com/experts-zimmerman-attorney-made-smart-move-072305753.html

[CatWoman]

29. yet

we know by the call with his girlfriend (barely minutes before he was shot) that Zimmerman accosted Martin.

Epic, EPIC fail on your part.

[dkf]

32. How do you know that from the call with the girlfriend?

[CatWoman]

35. ....

http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-killing-friend-phone-teen-death-recounts-063243901--abc-news.html

and I look forward to reading your next bullshit excuse

[dkf]

53. This is what she said:

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run but he said he was not going to run"

"Trayvon said, 'What, are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again and he didn't answer the phone."

This does not show who approached who. It does show Zimmerman lost contact with Martin and validates this part of GZ's story. Trayvon said he was not going to run. He could have instead done the opposite and turned to confront Zimmerman. We simply do not know what happened here based on what the girlfriend heard.

[CreekDog]

55. let's see where you've argued for fairness for Trayvon Martin?

some examples please?

because you've never applied the scrutiny to Zimmerman's accounts, in fact, you are an apologist for Zimmerman.

meanwhile you practically cross examine, as well as post right wing memes about Martin to undermine any witnesses associated with him.

if you want to take Zimmerman's side, do it boldly, don't play under the radar.

have the courage to say what you really think and stop playing games with us.

[maddezmom]

62. all the OP's post on this subject seem to be headed in the same direction

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002565842

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002519021

as are the replies
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=488385

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=532518

that is just a sampling

[CreekDog]

70. Yikes. I'd seen enough others to wince...and what does the aggregate of this advocacy say?

agenda, agenda, agenda.

[dkf]

65. You can't get fairness for Trayvon Martin. His dying was the ultimate in unfairness.

Florida's SYG law isn't set up for fairness to people who are killed. It was designed for people who defend themselves and are in court. Those people will not all be like George Zimmerman, but may be rape victims or home invasion victims. Cookie cutter laws have unintended consequences.

I'm not sure how good the Government is at delivering fairness. I think it fails a lot. But there is an integrity in following its rules and procedures that helps order society. I do value that structure.

[Daalalou]

37. I'd like someone to ask Zimmerman what he was doing

during the 3-4 minutes after his 911 call ended and the altercation began. He hadn't arrived back at his vehicle, and in fact, was much closer to the home where Trayon was staying than his vehicle. If he had been heading back to the SUV, why hadn't he arrived? Why was he further away than when he supposedly started "walking back"?

[BumRushDaShow]

12. Didn't you know that Black people are NOT allowed to walk to ANY destination?

because we are ALL hoods and thugs and savage animalistic "urban youths" decked down with hoodies and pants on the ground as we raid the 'burbs from the "inner city".

THAT is the key and NOTHING else matters. I.e., YOU don't have a fucking right to confront me if I am lawfully walking from one location to the next. I don't give a fuck WHO you are. Everything else obfuscating this case is nonsense. Get it? Got it? Good.

[xoom]

17. Wha?

Dont got it.

[MoonRiver]

14. I've heard there is another state investigator who knows a lot more about the case.

Will be interesting to hear that guy's testimony.

[dkf]

19. Goodness do the lead investigators not know what the other does?

How can you investigate properly if you can't build on each others findings?

[MoonRiver]

26. I don't know

but at least it sounds like somebody knows something! That said, this whole "investigation" has been a sham.

[dkf]

34. The investigators were appointed by Angela Corey. It's not part of the early crew.

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/Zimmerman_Probable_Cause_Document.pdf?tag=contentMain;contentBody

[CatWoman]

16. you sure like defending Zimmerman, don't you?

[The Magistrate]

21. Indeed, Ma'am: Dabbling In Devil's Advocacy Is One Thing, Actually Being On Retainer Quite Another

[dkf]

24. I find this case fascinating.

If the autopsy shows Martin was shot from up above I am completely willing to subscribe to the idea that Zimmerman is guilty in the eyes of the law.

I will be waiting for the release of the evidence to come to further conclusions. All I want is to try to figure out what happened and then to understand how the laws apply.

Yes this only satisfies the analytical side. But Trayvon Martin is gone. There is nothing that can change that.

[maddezmom]

27. you seem very cavalier about Trayvon Martin's death, imo

and instead of sounding like your trying to get at the facts, you seem to go out of your way to post anything that diminishes Trayvon Martin case to bolster George Zimmerman case. So it's hard to buy your only interested in a fair trial for a hispanic man like you stated upthread. Just my 2 cents.

[CatWoman]

28. thanks god I'm not the only one who sees this

[obamanut2012]

91. Trust me, you aren't

[dkf]

40. It's a tragedy. It always was no matter what happens at trial.

But the facts are this...the law may not be capable of delivering justice as seen by many.

I do not know what we can do about that.

[CreekDog]

63. are you saying that it's a tragedy for both of them, almost an equally bad tragedy for both?

like i heard on Fox news a little while back?

i should not need to bring a shovel to read this board, but there it is.

[dkf]

67. Actually I was specifically thinking of Trayvon Martin. He sounded like a really nice kid.

He liked to mentor young ones in football and he wanted to go to college, all things that I find highly commendable. I wish they would tell us more about him.

As far as George Zimmerman, he basically killed any possibility of a decent life along with Trayvon Martin.

No positives out of this.

[maddezmom]

75. yeah you really sound like an advocate for Trayvon here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002515033

and this one? were you happy to see George Zimmerman was climbing in the polls?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002591775

and this...not even sure wth you are getting at here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101621437

[dkf]

81. I like to think I advocate for facts and full knowledge and disclosure.

The more information the better, no matter where it leads.

I think it is necessary to be open to all possibilities, then add facts.

[The Magistrate]

101. You May Like To Think That, Ma'am, But It Is A Distinctly Minority Opinion

And for good reason.

[CreekDog]

82. i guess you don't have any posts explaining that

but you've been busy pleading for Mr. Zimmerman, so it's understandable that you were short of time.

[dkf]

92. The only article I found on his positives was on Fox news.

I was debating on posting it then decided not to because of the source.

Here it is if you want to read it:

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2012/03/23/trayvon-martin-never-picked-fight-friends-say/

There's not much I found other than this. Sad huh?

You see anything?

[pinboy3niner]

94. Utter BS

Your claim that no other news sources reported on Trayvon's background--"his positives"--is ludicrous.

You really need to switch to something other than Faux News as your go-to news source.

[dkf]

99. Well do you have any links?

I would like to read more about him.

[pinboy3niner]

100. Unfuckingbelievable!

Google returns 518 MILLION results for Trayvon Martin and you can't find ONE that's not Faux News that reports positively about his background????

Who do you think you're fooling?

[dkf]

102. In the first 4 pages there's one story.

Most of it is the same old.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/22/2708960/trayvon-martin-a-typical-teen.html

Got to page 10 and there's not much.

Seriously there are hardly any pieces on who Trayvon Martin was beyond the age, skittles, and recount of the events.

[pinboy3niner]

116. Those of us here who actually have been following the issue for weeks...

...saw the positives reported numerous times.

Curiously, your search methods leave a lot to be desired. Quelle surprise!

[CreekDog]

71. good observation

[99Forever]

38. Sorry..

... beyond fertilizing our garden, I have no use for what you are selling.

And BTW, we have fiends with horses and cattle and they supply plenty of it for free.

[sabrina 1]

60. No, nothing can bring the victim back. But if you have ever suffered that kind of loss

where someone you loved was wrongfully killed, even in an accident, what will add to the intense grief is 'blaming the victim'. You now become a victim. And for most people, all they want is an acknowledgement that their loved one was innocent and that what happened was a tragedy beyond comprehension except to those directly affected.

When justice seems to be slipping away, as it did in this case, the survivors themselves become victims, unable to properly grieve for their lost loved one, consumed by a sense of injustice, and that in itself becomes an assault on THEM. THIS is what happened to the family of Trayvon Martin.

They are not gone, and each time someone attempts to blame their son for his own death, the pain becomes intense.

Trayvon was not the only victim here. For the rest of their lives his family will suffer the loss of their child, long after the story is forgotten. Added to that pain, will be the excruciating pain of knowing that there are those who are trying to blame him for what happened.

Having been there, just FYI, although the circumstances were different, I can attest to the fact that a lack of justice causes the living to suffer intensely. And you don't necessarily need the perpetrator to go to jail, but a simple acknowledgement that your loved one did nothing wrong can mean everything in the world to you at such a time.

I cannot imagine the pain for the family of Trayvon Martin who received no acknowledgement that their son was an innocent victim, while the person responsibile for his death was not held accountable in any way, until public pressure was placed on the authorities.

When your child goes to the store in America, there is an expectation that s/he should return safely to his home. If s/he does not, something is very wrong here and he is not the cause of that wrong.

[dkf]

76. Yes I can see that.

Frankly Trayvon's mother has been much more generous than I would have been. When she speaks I see a heart full of love for her son, not hate which is amazing to me.

[suffragette]

103. Aptly and beautifully stated sabrina

And I want to to add, I am sorry for your loss.

[sabrina 1]

128. Hi suffragette,

Thank you ...

[suffragette]

131. Good to see you

[NoGOPZone]

31. .

[dionysus]

46. and banks, and foreclosures.. and wall street, ect ect...

[neverforget]

113. and against Social Security

[DCBob]

33. Has the trial started??

I dont think we know the prosecution's case yet. They arent going to lay that out till the trial. I suspect that have lots more evidence we dont know about that will punch a bunch of massive holes in Zimmermans defense.

[Rex]

41. Got to the second sentence and realized you are narrating ROFL.

I know you worry A LOT about Zimmerman's rights, but it looks like his goose is cooked...sorry Charlie.

[dionysus]

45. jesus christ is there anything heinous that you don't defend?

banks..check
wall street...check
foreclosures...check
zimmerman...check

[CreekDog]

48. gets worse! dkf asked "Lara Logan: Was she actually raped?"

http://election.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x435572

and not just posting a blog, the OP's replies are doubling down. #12 and #15.

[dionysus]

51. egads!

i need to go brush my teeth now

[dkf]

56. That was a post of someone else's that the particulars had not been asked due to sensitivity.

Obviously it was awful, but there is awful and really really awful.

I was hoping it was less bad for her sake.

It's interesting how my posts are interpreted.

[Rex]

58. Well the things you post are interesting

and interpreted exactly as you present them.

Have you no shame? 'Was someone raped?'

You would actually question that?






That is beyond horrible dkf.

[CreekDog]

59. You asked it downthread in your own words and you're dishonest about doing so here

dkf (1000+ posts) Thu Feb-17-11 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Maybe they ought to have left it at her being assaulted.

----

just cut it out.

[LanternWaste]

143. Almost as interesting in those things we imply in our posts.

"It's interesting how my posts are interpreted..."

Almost as interesting in those things we imply in our posts.

[CreekDog]

154. dkf attempted to mislead by saying that she only posted that thread because others were interested

neglecting to account for her own posts in the thread showing her own interest and curiousity about the topic.

[Rex]

57. WTFFFS?

Why was that even a topic to be discussed? Double down hell...I don't know what to call that, but something far more vile then DD.

[CreekDog]

61. on any given subject, there are posts like that and there are concerns on things we all agree on

or at least most of us do.

Arizona's immigration bill.

the Manhattan Mosque/Cultural Center.

Not cutting social security.

across the board. and now, being Mr. Zimmerman's PR-person.

oh well.

[Rex]

68. I believe it goes beyond a forum.

That is what I expect the Pigman to say.

[dionysus]

79. and another gem from today;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=592425

[CreekDog]

80. not even trying to hide it now

[Cali_Democrat]

109. Don't forget this thread locked for right wing birther talking points

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=959756&mesg_id=961582

[CreekDog]

117. i did forget that birther post, guess i got it mixed up with her other birther post a week earlier!

my bad!

dkf (1000+ posts) Sun Apr-17-11 11:22 PM
Original message
The birther thing is funny, but I wish Obama would release the original certificate and be done with


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x913697

[Cali_Democrat]

110. Oh this one too where dkf wants Obama to release his "original birth certificate"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=913697&mesg_id=913697

[CreekDog]

114. The OP is so concerned Obama will lose

But seems to prefer the policies of those who seek to defeat him anyway. Oh well.

[obamanut2012]

153. These are unbelievable

[obamanut2012]

152. omfg

That is horrible. Logan was raped and beaten and brutalized for many, many minutes. Her hair was torn out, and she was savaged by objects. Only a group of very brave women saved her life.

[demmiblue]

157. I remember that OP.

Just disgusting.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

119. I still remember all the "concern" reg. the mosque that wasn't a mosque

at not ground zero.

[4th law of robotics]

50. This trial is going to be a circus

We're already through one judge, the entire jury pool is tainted, and you have people quite vocally weighing in on both sides.

It's unfortunate because none of those things are conducive to a fair and proper trial.

[ecstatic]

54. Regardless of the outcome, a 17 year old was shot and killed while walking home

I know Z defenders have a bunch of excuses for why that is OK, or why Z should escape trial, but at the end of the day, it's sickening to think we live in a country where you can be gunned down because of skin color.

[coalition_unwilling]

64. Even more tragic is the destruction of potential. For all we know,

Trayvon might have become this century's Einstein or Freud. We'll never know now, because Zimmerman destroyed that potential before it could be realized.

[golfguru]

66. Yeah, like the two holes in back of Zimmerman's head

from a police photo taken withing minutes of the altercation.

[maddezmom]

69. looked like simple lacerations to me

that were clean up by medics at the scene. Didn't need stitches or even a band-aid at the police station 38 minutes later.

[Rex]

73. All I've ever seen is his shiny dome.

That is news to me.

[maddezmom]

78. ABC got the picture yesterday am right before the bond hearing

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002587068

[Rex]

87. Oh yeah I saw that picture. It proves nothing without a timestamp imo.

The footage in the PD shows no such abrasions on his head.

I understand ABC releasing this picture to help lower his bond. I don't approve of it, but the M$M is clearly on Zimmerman's side.

[Chan790]

97. It would prove nothing even with a timestamp.

If someone confronts you and physically threatens you and you defend yourself, any injuries they suffer are still the result of that self-defense. Zimmerman could have died hours after the fact of a fractured skull and been bleeding from his ears at the time of the shooting, it would not change if he was the aggressor. That's the prosecution's onus, to prove that Zimmerman was the aggressor.

Legally, if Zimmerman can be proven in court to have been the aggressor, he can't claim self-defense or even protection under SYG. That's a major crux of this case, are the eyewitnesses going to say that Zimmerman was the aggressor? He brought the gun. He shot an unarmed person. Witness testimony that he instigated the altercation would be the nail in any self-defense legal defense.

If I was the prosecution, I wouldn't have given away my strategy to win a bail hearing either. Let him have his bail, protect the case-strategy then drop the hammer on him in the trial-proceedings.

[Rex]

98. I agree with you, whatever the situation you have the right to self defense.

I, personally, am not buying the "got my head bashed in story" and find it interesting that ABC released the picture right before the bond hearing.

[golfguru]

111. You make some good points

Here are the facts:

None of us know all the evidence the police and the prosecutor has.
All opinions here therefore are conjecture.

All evidence will be bared in court. Why not wait till we see and hear all
the presented evidence and THEN throw opinions around?

[CreekDog]

146. then why did you discuss the evidence upthread?

now that you've made your point about the evidence of Zimmerman's injuries, you want everyone to stop discussing it?

smooth.

[golfguru]

148. Before I saw the bloody head

on Zimmerman's photo, I was leaning towards 2nd degree murder.
Now I am not so sure, and will wait for ALL the evidence to unfold in court.

[JonLP24]

122. You don't need to be attacked for SYG to apply

Just a reasonable fear so this talk about whether he has injuries or not doesn't matter for another reason. Which I'm not saying as a defense for Zimmerman since Martin didn't need to be attacked, just a reasonable fear to stand his ground, if he did indeed strike first.

[Rex]

72. Holes? How did you see that when no one else did?

nt.

[LanternWaste]

144. Precisely the same types of bumps one may get on the door-jam of a truck when trying to exit the veh

Precisely the same types of bumps one may get on the door-jam of a truck when trying to exit the vehicle too quickly to chase someone...

[golfguru]

149. False

During hasty exit bumps/scratches would be on forehead or just above forehead, not behind the head.

[obamanut2012]

155. False

[LeftyMom]

74. You're not fooling anybody.

In case you were wondering.

[CreekDog]

77. yeah, even the OP's compatriots won't recommend this

[countryjake]

95. Results: the Jury voted 0-6 to LEAVE IT.

Just letting you know that you've been jurified!

[CreekDog]

107. Thank you for showing me that

[suffragette]

105. Indeed

Let us hope so.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

84. The facts are;

Martin was unarmed and not looking for trouble. He was returning to his mothers house from buying candy. He was shot dead by a man who was armed and on the look out for trouble. Zimmerman has proven he is a threat to people and should never walk the street again for the rest of his life.

[jpak]

104. Zimmerman put a hole in unarmed Tayvon Martin after he racially profiled and hunted him down

The prosecutor will have an easy time.

yup

[varelse]

108. looks like you have finally come out

please, by all means... DO look into the light

[Iggo]

115. You wish!

[TBF]

120. If you will consider a news source other than FAUX,

this is an excellent OP from Malaise (source of the article is Africanglobe.net).

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002595437

[JonLP24]

121. There are a few people here

that I can't figure out how they are still posting here but they are a little more subtle. It is completely baffling how you are still here. There isn't a "fiscal conservative" policy you don't like. Outrageous & illogical defenses of RW policies & ideas like opposition to the Rec center. Birther stuff just to name a few.

[CatWoman]

124. word

[The Magistrate]

125. Indeed, Sir: There Is No Injustice This Person Will Not Defend, No Rightist Line She Will Not Press

[suffragette]

130. Aptly and concisely stated, Sir.

Now if that had been bankers arriving to foreclose, I'd venture the OP would have been very different.

[fascisthunter]

126. looks like the fraud is still here

"...time keeps on slipping, slipping, into the future....."

[msanthrope]

132. You take legal analysis from a journalist who hopes to be a law student some day????

Look, I hate to tell 'ya, but the idjit who wrote this---The Legal Lady---isn't gonna make it past Crim. Pro.

O'Mara made several mistakes which indicate that he's got his fee, and he'll let the family be the idiots they wanna be...

1) He put the family on the stand. You never put talkers on the stand in a hearing.

2) He put George Zimmerman on the stand. Stupid, stupid.

3) He failed to shake an essential element for 2nd degree murder--the following of Mr. Martin from Gilbreath's affidavit.

4) He failed to shake the characterization that Zimmerman's injuries were inconsistent with self-defense.

5) He failed to shake the characterization of 'profiling' from the Gilbreath affidavit.

This was a bond hearing, and the prosecution walked off with 1) high bond, 2) restrictions on movement 3) family statements that can be picked apart, and 4) a taste of the only stuff that O'Mara has to offer.

I will tell you as a practicing criminal defense attorney that Mr. Zimmerman is fucked. I will tell you that your legal analyst will be lucky to survive a semester at law school. I will tell you that George Zimmerman, IMHO, is guilty of first degree murder and I find him to be undercharged.

You wait. His jury will bury him.

[dkf]

133. Does O'Mara have access to all the evidence already?

And I realize it wasn't textbook, but with so much of this playing in the spotlight didn't he need to change the narrative?

[msanthrope]

135. O'Mara has been provided the discovery available to this point. There may be more discovery,

including Brady material, forthcoming. For example, voice analysis, which Gilbreath may not have chosen to make himself aware of, may be produced at a later date.

Dale Gilbreath was and is a minor cog in the chain....the thing your idjit legal analyst failed to recognize is that for a bond hearing--indeed for all pre-trial hearings....the prosecution presents the legal minimum available to secure the purpose of the hearing...the evidence heard may have been 'skimpy' because the prosecution isn't trying to prove guilt BRD here...they are trying to keep GZ in jail, or, in the alternative, out on restrictions that favor them.

You might have noticed that the PC articulated to issue an arrest warrant was upheld. You might have noticed that the bond issued was restrictive. You might have noticed that it was quite probable that O'Mara is going to be foreclosed using SYG as an affirmative defense and is going to be stuck claiming 'self-defense' which won't get him anywhere.

In my legal opinion, George Zimmerman should have been charged with murder in the first degree and should be facing the DP for his intent.

[dkf]

138. Very interesting analysis.

I've seen several lawyers comments praising O'Mara. The only negative was on a liberal forum board plus you.

[LaurenG]

139. Huh, are you by chance hoping that Zimmerman is acquitted?

Or are you just rooting for the defense like people who like sports choose a team?

[dkf]

141. I'm interested in seeing the evidence and how it plays out.

What I don't like are quick judgments, and unfounded allegations being taken as fact.

I've found that people are as quick to judge as Zimmerman was. It's an epidemic.

[vaberella]

145. Actually your post would suggest otherwise.

It blatantly disregards the case of the prosecution without actually knowing any of the evidence the prosecution plans to bring to the table except a minute bit. If you were truly sincere in your position for facts...you would never have posted this article---since the prosecution has barely laid out ANY of their evidence except for what the Mayor allowed to be released.

[cr8tvlde]

134. Thanks for the analysis.

What do you think the chances are for trying this in Florida?

[msanthrope]

136. The chances are excellent, but I wish he had been charged 'higher.'

Personally, I look back at the OJ Simpson case. Simpson should have been charged with first degree, DP special circumstances, and tried in Santa Monica.

The death of Trayvon Martin should have been charged at the highest level. George Zimmerman should be facing the DP, and specifically, he should be facing a DP jury.

I have a feeling that with the right arguments, the prosecution is going to get the jury to not do a Casey Anthony redux.

[leftynyc]

140. So - you finally outted yourself

Always suspected you were a concern troll and after reading all the links to your prior nonsense, you've outted yourself to everyone else. About time.

[JoePhilly]

147. My wife is not a lawyer, but she's seen enough Law and Order to know your OP is ...

pushing a stupid argument.

A bail hearing isn't a trial. At a bail hearing, you need not present all of your evidence. Anyone who;s watched Law and Order knows that.

Yet you promote the claim the prosecution does not have certain evidence based on the bail hearing.

Cue the law and order sting music.