One thing that's not clear about this supposed new photo of Zimmerman

[shawn703]

Wouldn't this statement:

"The person who took the photograph of a bloodied Zimmerman, asking not to be identified, told ABC News exclusively that they did not see the scuffle that night, but did hear it. The person recalled seeing Martin's prostrate body on the wet grass and said the gunpowder burns on Martin's gray hoodie were clearly visible. "
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-tells-trayvon-martins-parents/story?id=16177849

be a real problem for Zimmerman considering this fact:

"They found Martin "laying face down in the grass," according to a police report."
http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/26/justice/florida-teen-shooting/index.html


If the powder burns were visible with Martin in this position, wouldn't that seem to indicate he was shot in the back? Did I miss something?

[peacebird]

1. I wondered the same thing

[lacrew]

2. I'll hazard a guess

The police report states that they tried CPR on Martin.

[shawn703]

5. Although the photographer says Martin was in the prostrate position according to the article

Doesn't that usually mean "face down"?

[WingDinger]

11. Yes, NOW Zimmy has claimed thru poppy, that he didnt think T dead enough, so he lunged, and flipped

and mounted him. So many ad hoc embellishments after the fact.

[tularetom]

12. Yep

prone = prostrate = face down

supine = face up

[gateley]

14. I would have used "prostrate" for both positions -- totally forgot about "supine". nt

[vaberella]

29. Yes. Trayvon was found laying facedown. n/t

[Warpy]

3. The EMS people seemed to think it was a frontal chest wound

which is consistent with how he fell. People are blown backward by gunshot wounds only on Hollywood sound stages. They crumple forward in real life.

The same would happen with the entrance wound in the back instead of the front, but we don't have that information from the ME.

In fact, we don't know a lot except Zimmerman disobeyed a police dispatcher, left his vehicle to run after Martin, and shot him.

[shawn703]

13. It may have been

And if it was, wouldn't it call into question the integrity of this "anonymous photographer" who claims he saw Martin on the ground in the prostrate position and powder burns were clearly visible on his hoodie?

[Warpy]

26. The ME will corroborate one or the other as to the placement

of entrance and exit wounds. I do find it unlikely that powder burns would be particularly noticeable on a blood soaked hoodie.

[Rex]

4. What does the autopsy state?

There can be really no doubt as to where the bullet entered and left the body.

[sakabatou]

8. That's not out yet

[Fawke Em]

9. It's not been released yet.

[Honeycombe8]

28. Exactly. See my post below quoting Prosecutor's affidavit of charges, referencing shot in chest....

See article attached to the affidavit stating that the information came from the Medical Examiner or autopsy or whatever.

One gunshot to the chest, and that was the cause of death.

[asjr]

6. When I first saw the picture of the back

of Z's head I thought it looked like someone had painted it with a red magic marker.

[AzWorker]

7. CPR....

IIRC the initial report indicated that the responding officers attempted to render aid to Martin, that would likely require him to be repositioned.

[shawn703]

10. The article looks like it is saying the powder burns were visible while Martin was in the prostrate

position. I made an edit to the post to bold that part too.

[AzWorker]

15. Are you saying he was shot in the back?

I'm pretty sure the State knows where the entrance wound was located, if it was in Martin's back we would have heard it by now...

8^)

[shawn703]

17. Nope not saying that at all

But if this "anonymous photographer" is stating something that is not factually true, it would raise doubts about his claims, including those behind this supposed photograph.

[AzWorker]

18. rest assured...

....that the responding officers and medical professionals will be asked about this and possibly other photographs, if any, taken at the scene.

I also suspect that the individual may be misusing the most commonly used definition of 'prostrate'.

8^)

[Quixote1818]

16. Very good point. nt

[Honeycombe8]

19. The evidence so far is that he was shot in the chest. That's a done deal.

It was mentioned at the bond hrg today, and before.

It comes from the Medical Examiner, I think.

This is a done deal. He was shot in the chest.

It'd be easy to see how someone shot in the chest, might turn around and try to get away, and then fall face down.

[shawn703]

20. Photographer's account not factually possible then?

Powder burns being visible on Martin's hoodie while he was in the prostrate position would then only seem possible if the photographer had x-ray vision.

[Honeycombe8]

27. Where on his body he was shot is a simple medical fact. Here you go:

The affidavit ends by stating Martin was shot in the chest, and that Zimmerman admitted to the shooting of Martin. Assistant Medical Examiner Dr. Bao performed an autopsy on Martin and determined that Martin died from the gunshot wound

Continue reading on Examiner.com Charging document tries to fill in crucial minutes in Trayvon Martin case - National Political Buzz | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/article/charging-document-tries-to-fill-crucial-minutes-trayvon-martin-case#ixzz1sd5LDOVp

http://www.examiner.com/article/charging-document-tries-to-fill-crucial-minutes-trayvon-martin-case

[vaberella]

30. The police reports said the boy was found laying on his face with is feet to the cement.

Unless his body was moved post mortum the story leaves it undetermined whether the entry point was from the back or the front.

[Honeycombe8]

37. Repeat: The Medical Examiner says he was shot in the chest. The Funeral Director said he was shot in

the chest.

Those are the types of reports that determine placement of wounds and cause of death. Not a photographer or police report saying how the body was lying

You're just not letting this sink in. Grass is green, a fair sky is blue, Martin was shot in the chest. There is no disagreement with this fact between the prosecution and defense.

Besides, I do not see the fact that a body is lying face down as indicative of being shot in the back. If you shoot someone in the chest, and he turns to run away, he would fall face down.

It's time to move on. Read my post above where I include a link to the prosecutor's legal charges filed with the court and an accompanying article.

[vaberella]

31. He was shot in the chest.

The screams stopped abruptly. I can't see him doing a Bugs Bunny here before dieing face down or backwards as the case would be.

[cr8tvlde]

21. Police Report Attached...laying down with hands under body

...officer had to turn him over to administer CPR.

http://www.thehinkymeter.com/Library/TM/policereport.pdf

[shawn703]

22. Exactly

So if the photographer's account is that he saw Trayvon in the prostrate (face-down) position and that powder burns were clearly visible, there's a problem with his account.

[AzWorker]

23. I think relying on the use of the term 'prostrate' to refute the claim.....

...is grasping at straws IMO.

Again, if no other pics exist from that night, the responding officers and medical can be asked about the pic and whether or not it accurately reflects what they saw at the scene.

It's really that simple.


Definition: (adj.) 1. lying down, often on one's face, either out of respect and submissiveness; 2. lying down in a horizontal position due to illness or lack of energy; 3. physically exhausted or emotionally overwhelmed; (v.) 1. to lie down or throw oneself on the ground, especially in a worshipful manner; 2. to exhaust, either physically or emotionally

Synonyms: (adj.) prone, flat, reclining, exhausted, spent, overwhelmed, (v.) grovel, bow, lay, exhaust, overcome

[shawn703]

24. Inadequate reporting then in that case

That statement should have been followed up for clarification. Or the photographer may have said he took the photograph and saw Trayvon in the prostrate position, followed by seeing powder burns later after CPR was performed.

[AzWorker]

25. "inadequate reporting" seems to be the norm in this case...

With the twaeking of audio and selective editing of 911 calls.....nothing suprises me with regards to this incident.

[vaberella]

32. I just don't trust any professional element in this case.

The cops are inept and I still have to figure out why the morgue wouldn't give the boys body back to his family right away.

[sylvi]

33. Or it could just be

the photographer didn't know the correct definition of "prostrate".

[shawn703]

34. And neither did the reporter or editor of the story for that matter

Since there was no mention that the photographer's statement contradicts the known facts of the case.

[malaise]

35. How do we know it's Zimmerman's head? n/t

[shawn703]

36. We don't

ABC News said this is a photo of Zimmerman's head. Not that it was allegedly a photo of Zimmerman's head. They reported this on the word of an unidentified photographer who gave a statement about the position of Trayvon's body and what was visible that is contradictory to the facts of the case. They didn't clarify the photographer's statement in case this photographer wasn't aware of the meaning of "prostrate", and they didn't say they confirmed this was a photo of Zimmerman by talking to the investigators in the case who saw Zimmerman's injuries. This is what's passing for reporting these days.