Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:42 AM
TomCADem (16,355 posts)
Putin has plunged Russia into a vicious cycle of economic decline
It seems like Putin is pursuing a Dubya like approach by using a war to try to distract Russians from his economic failure at home. Yet, Putin is seen as a strong leader with great approval ratings while President Obama is portrayed as a weak President at home.
http://www.vox.com/2014/11/10/7175641/putin-russia-ruble-economy The Russian economy is in bad shape. On Monday morning, Russia's central bank announced that it expects the Russian economy to grow zero percent in 2015 and 0.1 percent in 2016. The value of Russia's currency, the ruble, plummeted more than 8 percent in the past week alone — and it's down more than 40 percent since the beginning of this year.
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7 replies, 1223 views
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Author | Time | Post |
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TomCADem | Nov 2014 | OP |
Cha | Nov 2014 | #1 | |
davidn3600 | Nov 2014 | #2 | |
DetlefK | Nov 2014 | #3 | |
jakeXT | Nov 2014 | #4 | |
pampango | Nov 2014 | #5 | |
davidn3600 | Nov 2014 | #6 | |
hrmjustin | Nov 2014 | #7 |
Response to TomCADem (Original post)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:55 AM
Cha (268,358 posts)
1. I feel for the Russian People.. not the dictator.
Mahalo TomCADem
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Response to TomCADem (Original post)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:26 AM
davidn3600 (6,342 posts)
2. I found this part of the article interesting...
In other words, the political strategy Putin used to distract Russians from their stagnating economy has ended up making the economy even worse. And yet those sanctions and the economic damage that they caused fit perfectly with the narrative of Russia standing bravely against the hostile forces of the West. That may mean that the sanctions could have the unintended consequence of strengthening the nationalist populism that prompted the invasion in the first place.
Almost sort of the effect Germany had right before WW2. The economy was a mess due to Versailles treaty and it provoked extreme nationalism making it very easy for the Nazis to grip total control. The Russian government seems poised to follow down the same path where it stokes fear of the west in order to justify more and more power and war and control. It ends up tearing down economic and political freedom. It causes the cycle to keep repeating. It's basically runaway nationalism. Russia's government doesn't have the type of built-in mechanisms that are common in western governments to prevent this kind of problem. So unless politicians or the people in Russia put a halt to it themselves, this is going to be very difficult to stop...and may be impossible to stop from the outside. |
Response to davidn3600 (Reply #2)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:13 AM
DetlefK (15,792 posts)
3. Germany? I'm thinking more of Venezuela.
Nationalism and oil. And policies based on propaganda, patriotism, us-vs-them...
I'm not saying that Russia will have an economic collapse of the magnitude happening in Venezuela, I'm saying that the Russians will get angry at Putin anyways at some point. Almost 25% of russian intellectuals, entrepreneurs, artists, scientists are unnerved by Putin's repressive policies and seriously ponder leaving Russia. What will happen if the qualitiy of living goes down while the trend goes toward even more nationalism? Just a few weeks ago I talked with a russian scientist who now works in Australia. It's entirely possible. |
Response to DetlefK (Reply #3)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:04 AM
jakeXT (10,575 posts)
4. They still have to work...
Indeed when you look at how Russia’s labor market has performed since the beginning of 2013 you get a much better idea of why Russians aren’t out on the streets: because most of them have to be at work
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2014/11/11/russias-labor-market-is-still-healthy/ |
Response to TomCADem (Original post)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:05 AM
pampango (24,689 posts)
5. Neocons - ours or Russia's - don't care as much about the economy as they do about the military and
restoring 'national pride' - linked to nationalism.
How Russia's president resembles the American hawks who hate him most. |
Response to pampango (Reply #5)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:21 AM
davidn3600 (6,342 posts)
6. It's somewhat a different culture though..
Over the past 1,000 years Russia has been invaded by practically every major threat from Genghis Khan to Napoleon to Hitler.. So they've collectively formed a sense that they need security. And they feel as though a strong, intimidating leader who focuses on nationalism, pride, and military power will put fear in any potential enemy. This is the reason Putin is so popular and only seems to gain popularity the more he antagonizes the west. The Kremlin does not trust NATO whatsoever. In their view, they see NATO creeping up to their doorstep and if history is any guide, will eventually attempt to destabilize Russia just like every other threat that kept up to their door.
On the other hand though, Putin seems to be oblivious to his neighbor's concerns for security. Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states, and most of the other former Soviet Republics fear Russia far more than they fear the west. So Putin has sort of pushed them away and are all begging to join NATO. And now his response is try to get them back by force and intimidation. That's not going to work. It's going to create an even bigger mess. As you said, Putin is cold-warrior raised by the KGB, not a diplomat or economist. And that is a big weakness on his part that may very well lead to economic ruin. But he views it as a means of defense. Unfortunately, we also have not yet moved beyond that cold war mindset. We don't trust the Russians any more than they trust us. So where relations stand today is sort of the culmination of some bad decision-making on both sides since the fall of the Soviet Union. |
Response to TomCADem (Original post)
Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:23 AM
hrmjustin (71,265 posts)
7. Putin is a horrible leader and has given his people nothing but misery.