What Harry Truman had to say about phony Democrats vs genuine Republicans: It's worth remembering.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat...

I believe the Democrats (at the national level, anyway) are behaving like the phony Democrats Truman was referring to.

Your thoughts?

[Autumn]

1. I believe it enough I made it my sig line this morning.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. It is an excellent choice!

[MoonchildCA]

3. Agreed. This can't be posted enough.

This really needs to be the mantra for 2016.

[SomethingFishy]

4. Fully agree... Which is why we lost the seats but won the issues..

All anyone has to do is look at the minimum wage issue. Passed in every state it was up for a vote, by huge margins, yet those states also voted in Republican Representatives, who will vote against a minimum wage increase any chance they get.

I saw the Allison Grimes "Shotgun" ad today for the first time. It's no wonder she lost. Popping off rounds and slamming Obama is no way for a Democrat to get elected.

[Raine1967]

38. That is a really great point. eom.

[LeftInTX]

46. Ouch - that ad

[NYC_SKP]

5. I think a few of our Democrats drank the Reagan koolaid and

...haven't looked back.

They'll throw a bone to the gun control lobby or support marriage equality, but when it comes to matters that address income equity and workers' rights and the middle class, they seem to buy the "trickle down" "job creators" bullshit.

It's time we demand more.

[Enthusiast]

25. +1!

[LiberalArkie]

47. They bought Bill and Hillary's kool-aid

[msongs]

6. truman has many spot on quotes about republicans. current dems do not support his views tho nt

[pa28]

7. Here's what I thought really striking about last night's results.

Democratic values like Women's choice and a minimum wage hike did well when presented as stand-alone issues.

Meanwhile, the electorate turned around and split their ballot by supporting Republicans rather than voting for the triangulating Democrat.

Harry was right.

[randys1]

26. When voting on people vs issues, most americans are just too shallow so yes they will always

reject the phony.

If Dems want to win they need to talk about back alley abortions, trickle down horror stories, etc.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

76. You think rejecting phonies is 'shallow'?

I think it's only sensible. If you're going to have a guy with a knife hanging around, you want him out where you can see him, not where he can stab you in the back.

[randys1]

81. As long as you dont care about Gay rights, Women's rights, minority rights, voting rights

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

82. Those are great, as far as they go.

It's great that two men can get married, even though the economic polices championed by the guys who allow them to get married will trap them in poverty just as much as the guys who don't want them to get married.

The guy with a knife is still a guy with a knife, even if he buys you a bouquet of flowers first.

[RufusTFirefly]

8. I completely agree

I refer to it as the "New Coke" strategy



Nobody's going to drink a Coke that changes its formula to taste more like Pepsi when they can buy Pepsi instead.
We need to return to Democratic Classic

[grahamhgreen]

40. Great analogy.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. His estimate proved true yesterday. Being "Not as bad" has lost its appeal.

[wyldwolf]

10. sure. Truman's address to Americans for Democratic Action

Funny, he also told them how he, himself, would not have been welcome there a year prior because the ADA were "engaged in rather wild fancies about the Presidential nomination." Funny how that still happens with 'progressives.'

'Progressives' of the day didn't care for Truman (and not much for FDR, either).

The Phony Democrats Truman was referring to were the Dixiecrats.

[Maedhros]

11. Jeff Merkeley in Oregon was chastised by the press

for being "too far left" and eschewing bipartisanship.

Won by 18 points.

[JDPriestly]

16. There you go. That is just one proof.

Jerry Brown raised taxes especially on the rich (through a referendum he sponsored).

He won by over 17 votes.

https://www.google.com/webhp?gws_rd=ssl#q=jerry+brown+election+2014

That's the point. The more liberal candidates won.

You can say that they ran in more liberal areas of the country. But think of California. Home of Arnold Schwarzenegger (who couldn't pay the bills) and Ronald Reagan and of many Republican governors.

Liberals who dare to solve problems with liberal solutions did not so bad.

Goes to show.

[Enthusiast]

29. +1 a whole bunch.

[Maedhros]

34. How many disasters do we need to repeat before the "Lesser of Two Evils" excuse

is worn out?

Voters want a real choice, not a coin flip. Candidates that give them a clear choice do better!

[Enthusiast]

28. +1 an entire shit load.

[BrotherIvan]

48. +a fuckload

As did Alan Grayson who breathes fire and Jerry Brown who will likely die in office. I had a rough schedule yesterday, but getting my butt to the polls yesterday to vote for him and Newsome was a pleasure. He aint perfect, but he is the best we've had in a long time.

[barbtries]

62. that's what all the democrats should have done.

hold some beliefs, and defend them all the way.

[Odin2005]

77. The MSM will ALWAYS attack genuine progressives and radicals, no matter what.

Politicians need to quit being terrified of being called names by the Capitalist Propaganda Machine.

[Fearless]

12. Definitely agreed!

Catering to the opposition causes the base to become disenfranchised and not show up at the polls.

[JDPriestly]

13. I agree completely.

[Boom Sound 416]

14. "What a difference a day makes"

[rurallib]

15. must have said that line 50 times yesterday and today

but we probably won't learn.

[bucolic_frolic]

17. Obama Didn't Do What He Campaigned For in 2008

GOP never campaigns for anything that people want, so no one is disappointed.

Voters will go for change that benefits them. Did we elucidate a platform?

Hope and change became a sarcastic slur. No bankers are in Jail, jobs are scarce,
the rich have more money than ever, health care has been slow. Frustration and obstruction
carried the day.

Democrats including the President need to blame the GOP. Often. Every Day. Use the Bully Pulpit.

We in the fine colony of Pennsylvania threw out a teabagger who raised regressive gas and vehicle taxes on the poor,
cut funding to the poorest schools, rewarded fracking companies and campaign contributors, and tried
to sell off parts of the government to prison companies, foreign lottery entrepreneurs, and private
alcohol distributors.

We did it partly because of his policies, but also because the new governor-elect is a smart academician who
has run his own business, volunteered as a youth, worked as treasurer in state government, and talks about
compassion and raising taxes on those with higher income. Absent those credentials, if the Democrat were
GOP-Lite, we could well have lost the election!

Our hopes in Washington rest with the Tea Party. If they can live up to their billing - obstruct, impeach, denigrate, radicalize - then the backlash will give Democrats a window. Maybe Obama should negotiate with them and horse trade their most radical positions so they take responsibility for them. Economically eviscerate the populace so they know where it comes from.


It has taken the scoundrels 35 years to get to this point of strangulating of the democracy for their own interests. There must be a flaw somewhere in their strategy ...............

THINK! Democrats need help, the DNC needs ideas.

[hedgehog]

20. "Our hopes in Washington rest with the Tea Party. If they can live up to their billing -

- obstruct, impeach, denigrate, radicalize - then the backlash will give Democrats a window."



I think we get a good turnout in Presidential elections because both candidates are forced to take positions. In the Congressional races, we're lucky to see a left wing position down in faint small print on a mailer sent to loyal Democratic households.Nothing says "don't bother voting" like Democratic candidates afraid of their shadows!

[Maineman]

37. Agree. Unfortunately, another Republican recession, depression, or financial crisis would

help uninformed voters understand Republicans.

[bucolic_frolic]

85. Every DNCer in Washington Should Read It

'Nothing says "don't bother voting" like Democratic candidates afraid of their shadows!'

hedgehog, you are a BUZZSAW!

[hedgehog]

86. I try.

[bigwillq]

18. Agree (nt)

[pansypoo53219]

19. they do not want a wall street democrat.

[Bonhomme Richard]

21. I think the sad truth is that the Democratic Leadership does not....

really want to change things in any serious way. They talk change but when push comes to shove they won't stand behind it.
Who talked about real change and brought out the people.......Elizabeth Warren. Any possibility of progressive change scares the shit out of those in power.
I heard a saying once.....The Democratic party is where good ideas are sent to die.
There are days I think the whole thing is a con.

[Maedhros]

35. I think the Democratic Party leaders are quite comfortable with the Republican platform.

They see their biggest challenge to be abetting the Republicans while simultaneously duping their base.

[mazzarro]

39. Democratic Leadership - including the President - have never wanted to change things really!

They find ways to shade and dodge doing any meaningful things that is not favored by the corporate masters which they pretend not to kowtow to. But in fact they cannot do without the big money that they get from them. No meaning efforts has been expended to stop the influence of bin money in elections despite mouthing some tepid opposition to it.

[PatrynXX]

22. yep :(

same thing happened to Hillary Clinton when she pretended she was something else. Like who is this. This isn't the Hillary I knew. sunk like a rock

[Enthusiast]

23. K&R! Thank you, CaliforniaPeggy. Harry Truman was dead on when he said this.

We forget this at our own peril. Many seem to have forgotten it.

And some want to leave it behind and become moderate Republicans from the 1980s, you know, the ones that started the nation on its path to destruction.

[lobodons]

24. Only problem

Today's Republicans are nothing like Truman's day republicans. (Eisenhower would be a liberal Democrat today)

I do not disagree with Truman on much but this one I do. I'd rather have 60 Dems in the Senate with 12 phony Dems (like we did 6 years ago) than 48 genuine Dems and McConnell having the gavel.

[Maedhros]

36. Sound policy loses 48-52 either way.

Not much difference.

[mythology]

70. Except it doesn't play out that way

The last time I looked, there wasn't a Democrat who voted more with Republicans. In fact I didn't find one who voted with the party less than 60 percent of the time.

So the idea that there are phony Democrats isn't born out by voting patterns.

[HereSince1628]

27. Well, that's the whole point of triangulation, isn't it?

[AtomicKitten]

30. So true.

Thank you.

[SunSeeker]

31. Then explain why Sandra Fluke lost her bid for a blue CA state Senate seat.

And lost to a Dem backed by real estate developers?

[Maineman]

33. Money. Big money buys elections.

[SunSeeker]

45. Fluke had big money...and she was a real Dem.

Sandra Fluke had name recognition, eloquence and true blue values. How could she lose to a phony Dem?!

It can't be the money. Both Fluke and Allen raised over $1 million for their respective campaigns. http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6106634

[Bluenorthwest]

53. Calling him a phony Dem is shitty. He's been a liberal elected member of the Santa Monica-Malibu

School Board for two terms. He's worked for Democrats, and for Democratic groups. Allen might not be your choice, but he had the endorsement of many good Democrats like Henry Waxman.
What specifics do you base your 'he's a phony Dem' spiel on? Just saying it does not make it so.

I like her. But I can't see her as a super shoo in compared to the other guy. She's new to CA, has never held elected office, has no actual experience, is not known by years of work locally.
It's politics. Being a new resident can be a huge drawback over a known local.

[SunSeeker]

56. Just going by the purity definition here.

Allen got almost all his money, $1.3 million, from a real estate developer, per the link I cite above. According to folks around here, especially the Hillary bashers, that means he'll be beholden to that developer just like Hillary will be beholden to Wal-Mart. Allen is not well known unless you are involved with the school board. Everyone knows who Fluke is.

If you think calling a Dem a phony Dem is shitty, tell that to the OP.

[Maineman]

32. Absolutely agree!!

I think I am furious at Obama for wasting the first two years of his presidency trying to play middle ground, trying to compromise with the Repuk ass****s.

I have no idea when we might have another chance to be saved from the Kochs and their corporate big money comrades' control of government.

Control of government and just about everything else by big money and corporate profiteers is far and away the most serious issue this country faces.

According to author and Professor Gar Alperovitz, the out of balance distribution of wealth in this country is equivalent to feudalism.

[Raine1967]

41. Ms. Peggy

I had to look up when he actually made this statement. HEre is the entire transcript: http://www.trumanlibrary.org/publicpapers/index.php?pid=1296

Her e are the words surrounding the quote you posted.

The record the Democratic Party has made in the last 20 years is the greatest political asset any party ever had in the history of the world. We would be foolish to throw it away. There is nothing our enemies would like better and nothing that would do more to help them win an election.

I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.

But when a Democratic candidate goes out and explains what the New Deal and fair Deal really are--when he stands up like a man and puts the issues before the people--then Democrats can win, even in places where they have never won before. It has been proven time and again.

We are getting a lot of suggestions to the effect that we ought to water down our platform and abandon parts of our program. These, my friends, are Trojan horse suggestions. I have been in politics for over 30 years, and I know what I am talking about, and I believe I know something about the business. One thing I am sure of: never, never throw away a winning program. This is so elementary that I suspect the people handing out this advice are not really well-wishers of the Democratic Party.

More than that, I don't believe they have the best interests of the American people at heart. There is something more important involved in our program than simply the success of a political party.

Thank you for posting this.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

43. Thank you for the entire quote.

I wanted to cut to the chase with the heart of it.

[Raine1967]

55. As well you should!

I really am glad you said it. It needed to be said.

The DNC -- to me, failed us.

[wyldwolf]

68. That isn't the entire quote - it isn't in it's context. And based on it's usage here, not even true

That isn't the entire quote - it isn't in it's context. And based on it's usage here, not even true. Let's set it up:

Harry Truman is giving a speech to the Americans for Democratic Action, an organization led by Eleanor Roosevelt. Truman and (Eleanor) Roosevelt didn't always get along and sometime they'd butt heads on matters of policy and candidates. Eleanor was an early supporter of Henry Wallace, who ran against Truman in '48.

Truman took some small swipes at the ADA in this speech. First off was this:

there was a time when it might not have been so pleasant for me to meet with the ADA. I understand that 4 years ago-along about this time--some of the leaders of ADA were engaged in rather wild fancies about the Presidential nomination... You know, the peculiar part about it was that you were a young political organization and you had not studied the history of conventions. A President of the United States, when he desires and when he wants to be nominated, there isn't anybody in the world can keep him from being nominated.

Here, Truman was referencing the third party run of 'progressive' Henry Wallace and he was chiding them for supporting him. He was actually a little condescending, wasn't he? He essentially says, "It's understandable that you were stupid in '48. Your were inexperienced wannabes. We can all laugh about it your 'wild fancies' about politics now."

He then sets the audience up for his famous "phony Democrat" quote:

In spite of the various notions about the nomination in 1948... the outcome of the election that year astonished a great many people. We astonished the pollsters and the sabotage press, and the opposition candidates--Republican, crackpot, and Dixiecrat.

Here, Truman calls out the 'progressive' movement by referring to Henry Wallace as a 'crackpot.' He also mentions the Dixiecrat (Strom Thurmond.) Two men who he rightly considered phony Democrats - a 'progressive' and a racist.

Now here comes the money quote:

When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.

You have to ask yourself who Truman was specifically referring to. Was it 'Democrats' who didn't believe in the New Deal? That's certainly what he said and it was directed at Strom Thurmond. But it might have just as well been directed at FDR himself who said this in his annual message to Congress in 1935:

A large proportion of these unemployed and their dependents have been forced on the relief rolls. The burden on the Federal Government has grown with great rapidity... The lessons of history, confirmed by the evidence immediately before me, show conclusively that continued dependence upon relief induces a spiritual and moral disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fibre. To dole out relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit. It is inimical to the dictates of sound policy. It is in violation of the traditions of America. Work must be found for able-bodied but destitute workers.

The Federal Government must and shall quit this business of relief.

Whew! Strong anti-welfare words from FDR himself.

Were Truman's words directed at 'Democrats' who weren't sufficiently 'progressive' overall as is claimed by people on DU and other places? There is NO indication of that whatsoever. Truman himself was accused by 'progressives' of the day for being too conservative (as was FDR, as a matter of fact.)

In '48, Truman made his feelings quite clear on the far left ("crackpots&quot and far right of the party. After his victory, he said: "The greatest achievement was winning without the radicals in the party. I was happy to be elected by a Democratic party that did not depend upon either the left-wing or the southern bloc."

If we were to take Truman's quote and apply it to any time period beyond 1952, it would make just as much sense, perhaps more sense, to apply it to 'progressives.'

But let's say the quote IS about DLC/blue dogs/centrist, whatever. If it is, Truman was wrong. Those types of Dems have defeated Republicans in countless elections. People did not, in fact, choose the Republican over them "every time."

[treestar]

71. thank you thank you thank you

I am so sick of seeing that quote used in a general way to make an irrational argument that red states just need some really really liberal candidates and we can win in them. Something that far back in history had to have a context that didn't fit today.

I'd really love to spring that FDR quote on the righties I know who are forever saying that!

[branford]

73. Great Post! nt

[Odin2005]

78. The DLC spin machine is here.

[wyldwolf]

79. The 'progressive' historical revisionism machine is here. Dispute what I wrote.

Your reply gives the impression you're a 'deer in the headlights.'

[BrotherIvan]

51. YES!

[KMOD]

54. Thank you for that Raine1967

I strongly agree with what he said surrounding the phony democrat quote.

"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat."

and

"But when a Democratic candidate goes out and explains what the New Deal and fair Deal really are--when he stands up like a man and puts the issues before the people--then Democrats can win, even in places where they have never won before. It has been proven time and again."

[treestar]

59. since at this point no one is trying to change the platform

I wonder why we have to hear this over and over. Who was he to decide other Dems were "phony?" If you are a liberal, don't vote Republican. That's easy.

[A Simple Game]

42. It's as if they are saying "vote for me, I'm almost as good as the Republican!"

The middle ground voters would vote Democratic if given a choice, often this year they didn't have one.

I was more and more sickened by Grimes as the campaign got closer to the election. "Here Mitch, let me show you how to hold a gun!!!" Sickening.

[question everything]

44. This was in the good old days, when Republicans were considered to be honorable

of the "live and let live." And, of course, they were the party of Lincoln.

While Democrats of these days were Dixicrats that soon joined Nixon's "law and order" mantra. i.e. - keep the black people in place.

I know that I was sorry to lose some Republicans, like Chafee, who would have been better than the Landrieu and the Bennet and the Petersons who would not vote for the ACA unless their requirements were met.

[leftstreet]

49. DURec

[BrotherIvan]

50. I've been posting the whole quote

Especially to the hippie punchers on this board who, as predictable as the rising of the sun, have decided to blame liberals for the loss.

I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.

WE KNOW that liberals can win in this country. How do we know? Obama. How do we get liberals to win in red states? I think Sanders, Warren, FDR and Truman know how to do it. Run on The New Deal and THE FAIR DEAL for working class families and then actually deliver on your promises. Tell them how their lives and their children's lives will be better. Talk about education, college tuition, social security, and jobs. And when the Republicans lie and call you a tax and spend liberal, or a welfare loving gun grabber, call them out on it!

And when they ask you if you voted for the President, you say "Of course, I'm a Democrat and I believe in Democratic policies." And the sound byte will be over. If you are too stupid to know this, then you don't belong in the Senate.

[wyldwolf]

72. but you haven't been posting it in it's context

[BrotherIvan]

74. Bless your heart

[wyldwolf]

80. says BrotherIvan who had nothing else to add to the discussion.

[treestar]

57. that saying really makes no sense

I'm assuming 1940s politics in context supplies an explanation.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

58. Read Post #41 for the whole quote. That will give you context.

[wyldwolf]

69. Read post 68 for the quote in context, with added information.

[NorthCarolina]

60. I fear that the system has already become far too corrupt to change anything at this point.

Cut to the last scene: Wall Street wins, and the people all dressed in their gray garb cheer as they line up for morning jumping jacks before heading off to dig shit for some gruel.

[barbtries]

61. i'm too far gone

i'll take a phony democrat. there is not a vote for a republican anywhere inside me.

[zentrum]

63. Even so,

...I can't wrap my mind around the choice people made to end gridlock in DC by putting Republicans in charge.

Why not kick them out and put the party of the President in. Even if the Democrats are mild mannered Republicans---legislation would happen and move forward.

Why choose the obstructionists? How is that rational in any way?

[Bernardo de La Paz]

64. What's that?

[MatthewStLouis]

65. So true! Thanks!

[Jefferson23]

66. My thoughts are, public funded elections..which will enable the Democrats to be Democrats, again.

The money is poison, Peggy..it's so overwhelmingly obvious, I think.

K&R, for the thoughtful thread.

[NCTraveler]

67. No better example than the Governors race in Florida. nt.

[Odin2005]

75. THAT YOU, PEGGY! All the DLC appologists ignore Truman's wisdom.

[Zorra]

83. Yes. nt

[woo me with science]

84. Amen. Time for the phony Democrats out of the party.

Ignore the 3rd Way shills with extreme prejudice
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025767160

[ReRe]

87. K&R

Thanks for looking up that quote! I always shorten it and it doesn't come out right!

This is exactly what went through my mind this whole election season.

[NYC_SKP]

88. Kicking.