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Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:00 AM

So now that we have nothing more to lose

how about taking our party on a hard turn to the left. Let's come up with every progressive idea we can and put together a liberal platform for 2016.
Never compromise with the devil

134 replies, 8703 views

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Arrow 134 replies Author Time Post
Reply So now that we have nothing more to lose (Original post)
upaloopa Nov 2014 OP
Ykcutnek Nov 2014 #1
QuestionAlways Nov 2014 #36
grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #2
southerncrone Nov 2014 #4
Autumn Nov 2014 #112
elleng Nov 2014 #3
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #5
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #13
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #15
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #20
whereisjustice Nov 2014 #24
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #38
Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2014 #80
deutsey Nov 2014 #98
Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2014 #99
whereisjustice Nov 2014 #90
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #91
somebody-else Nov 2014 #126
AngryOldDem Nov 2014 #77
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #79
AngryOldDem Nov 2014 #81
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #83
AngryOldDem Nov 2014 #133
Caretha Nov 2014 #94
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #100
Caretha Nov 2014 #128
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #129
AngryOldDem Nov 2014 #134
antigop Nov 2014 #92
Erose999 Nov 2014 #104
JDPriestly Nov 2014 #45
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #84
Nuclear Unicorn Nov 2014 #78
LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #103
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #120
LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #121
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #123
LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #124
DisgustipatedinCA Nov 2014 #14
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #18
BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #30
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #40
BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #42
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #64
BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #65
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #67
whereisjustice Nov 2014 #17
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #19
BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #31
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #43
BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #49
JDPriestly Nov 2014 #37
BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #55
LeftInTX Nov 2014 #61
LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #105
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #88
nolabels Nov 2014 #102
quakerboy Nov 2014 #54
BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #57
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #87
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #85
quakerboy Nov 2014 #118
Marr Nov 2014 #119
appal_jack Nov 2014 #6
SammyWinstonJack Nov 2014 #12
Cleita Nov 2014 #7
Maedhros Nov 2014 #8
Cleita Nov 2014 #9
Maedhros Nov 2014 #10
dreamnightwind Nov 2014 #59
Erose999 Nov 2014 #106
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #22
Cleita Nov 2014 #23
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #25
Cleita Nov 2014 #26
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #27
SunSeeker Nov 2014 #34
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #35
AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #39
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #44
AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #46
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #48
BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #51
AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #56
Sparky 1 Nov 2014 #62
Sparky 1 Nov 2014 #72
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #86
LondonReign2 Nov 2014 #107
Fawke Em Nov 2014 #131
Ykcutnek Nov 2014 #11
blkmusclmachine Nov 2014 #58
Horse with no Name Nov 2014 #16
KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #21
QuestionAlways Nov 2014 #47
KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #53
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #113
quakerboy Nov 2014 #63
KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #70
angrychair Nov 2014 #28
99th_Monkey Nov 2014 #29
blkmusclmachine Nov 2014 #60
True Blue Door Nov 2014 #32
quakerboy Nov 2014 #66
True Blue Door Nov 2014 #71
quakerboy Nov 2014 #74
True Blue Door Nov 2014 #75
quakerboy Nov 2014 #117
liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #33
AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #41
BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #50
Myrina Nov 2014 #122
blkmusclmachine Nov 2014 #52
AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #69
liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #93
Marr Nov 2014 #127
Sparky 1 Nov 2014 #68
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #89
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #114
VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #115
Lydia Leftcoast Nov 2014 #125
BlindTiresias Nov 2014 #73
Martin Eden Nov 2014 #76
Caretha Nov 2014 #97
Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2014 #82
Orsino Nov 2014 #95
Bettie Nov 2014 #96
Crunchy Frog Nov 2014 #116
MineralMan Nov 2014 #101
freshwest Nov 2014 #132
Dawgs Nov 2014 #108
upaloopa Nov 2014 #109
Dawgs Nov 2014 #110
upaloopa Nov 2014 #111
treestar Nov 2014 #130

Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:01 AM

1. I've been hard left before... and I feel myself swinging back in that direction. nt

 

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Response to Ykcutnek (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:23 AM

36. We still have the Presidency

 

Let us not be so far from the mainstream that we lose that also in two years.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:01 AM

2. Put on your walkin shoes for Bernie:)

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:04 AM

4. Yep!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:07 PM

112. Bernie/ Liz 2016. Go big or go home.

We can't afford to play around anymore.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:03 AM

3. with Hillary running?

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Response to elleng (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:21 AM

5. Hillary is our best bet to defeat them...

 

Now is not the time for longshots...and this divisiveness has got to dtop now...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:46 AM

13. Hillary?

No. I'd have to put two clothespins on my nose to vote for her. She's all buddy-buddy with the Republicans.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:49 AM

15. YESSSSS Hillary

 

She polls higher than ALL Republicans.....or do you want to risk Repukes hsving all three branches?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:53 AM

20. That's because average people vote for the candidates they've heard of

and the media have been all-Hillary all the time.

But when presented with an alternative to Hillary in 2008, the voters selected a black man few of them had heard of before the campaign season.

It is precisely BECAUSE the media are pushing Hillary that I am suspicious.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:57 AM

24. Hillary submits to Wall Street. Media CEOs like that in a president. Your instincts are correct.

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Response to whereisjustice (Reply #24)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:28 AM

38. i dont give a shit about your pet peeves....

 

only SHE polls higher than all Republicans even Jeb Bush. When YOU have a candidate that can say that let us know...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:17 AM

80. Being sold off to the corporatists isn't merely a pet peeve. It's an existential threat.

Being sold off as chattel to the corporate state doesn't become more palatable because the auctioneer has a D instead of an R.

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Response to Nuclear Unicorn (Reply #80)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 11:27 AM

98. For some, it actually is more palatable, unfortunately

I really don't get it.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #98)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 11:31 AM

99. May their masters always treat them kindly. nt

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 09:58 AM

90. You better give a shit, the fact that you think NSA spying, banking fraud, fracking, miliarized

record poverty, outsourcing millions of jobs to Asia with US income disparity at levels not seen for nearly 100 years is going to work for Hillary shows just how far out of touch you are.

You are like the disembodied voice of the DNC, lost in the wilderness, still thinking that to be a good Democrat means you have to be a good Republican and fuck over every principal that benefits the working class

And while you were out there battling the ghosts of ponies and rainbows, Republicans became the beneficiaries of a frustrated middle class.

The HMS Hillary is sinking and you think you are bailing water. Really you are just making a mess.

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Response to whereisjustice (Reply #90)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 10:30 AM

91. no i dont have to..

 

Now because of this bullshit we have an uphill climb for several election cycles..

So thanks for all tour support with friends like this who needs enemies. YOU better recognize..

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 07:57 AM

77. +1

I find it somewhat amusing that with all the call for "change" here, HRC is still aces with a lot of folks, when in fact she is just as conservative on many issues as the GOP.

I am hoping that between now and 2016, the party does take a turn left, and that Elizabeth Warren changes her mind and decides to make a run for office. If not her, then Bernie Sanders would work well, too.

Not feeling the HRC love, not that I ever did.

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Response to AngryOldDem (Reply #77)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:16 AM

79. and I am surprised a :"Democrat" gets away with talking

 

This trash on a Democratic forum. Wpuld EW endorse her if that were true,?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #79)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:17 AM

81. Your bullying won't change my opinion.

I do NOT think that HRC is the savior of the party.

Off to work. Have a good day.

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Response to AngryOldDem (Reply #81)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:27 AM

83. telling it like it T.I Is is not bullying

 

If you spend your time here doing nothing but trash talking Dems then you are psrt of the problem and I partially blame these so called Democrats that do that by helping to supress the vote!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #83)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:56 AM

133. Check my post history and tell me how many times I have "trash talked" Dems.

And I don't think having doubts about the presumptive nominee is "trash talking," either. I do NOT fall into lock-step with anyone just because I am TOLD to do so. Just where did I insult HRC by expressing doubts about her ability to lead the party out of the wilderness?

Is this how you convince people to come to your side? By insults? From what I've seen here, it is.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #79)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 11:06 AM

94. In what world

 

does supporting or preferring a different Democrat (Elizabeth Warren) for office become "talking This(sic) trash on a Democratic forum"?

Your idea of Democracy is extremely flawed and does not reflect any known definition of a democratic government philosophy. In fact, it brings to mind the word dictatorship.

IOW, You might as well have said "if you don't support who "I" say - then you are dog poop,and don't belong here."

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Response to Caretha (Reply #94)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:05 PM

100. is THAT how republicans pulled this off

 

Did they look like fools who cannot even defend their own party candidates?

Thats how we lost ...we acted like losers

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #100)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:45 PM

128. I find it amazing how short most people's memory is

 

You must not remember the Republican presidential clown parade of 2 years ago - they were very busy tearing each other apart.

Thats how we lost ...we acted like losers


Well...we certainly didn't act like Democrats...more like Republican lite & 3rd WAY DLCers, I'll grant you that.

Mean while, why don't you take some of your own advice and quit trying to be some sort of know it all forum hall monitor.

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Response to Caretha (Reply #128)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:42 PM

129. no losers eat their own.....like we do

 

And that is what losers do....one thing we ate good at? Circular Firing Squads....

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Response to Caretha (Reply #94)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:58 AM

134. Exactly.

For Godsakes, it's still 2014. Why is the nominee decided NOW? (Rhetorical question, but one that saddens me to even ask.)

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 10:36 AM

92. psst..don't tell anyone....

Who owns the media?

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:28 PM

104. Yeah name recognition from the Big Dog era really worked in GA. The names Carter, Nunn, and Miller


really won it big for the democrats.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:46 AM

45. But the candidates the Clintons tried to help did not do that well considering the name

recognition and experience of the two.

Just 17 candidates backed by either Clinton won, compared to 31 who lost. One race will go into a December runoff, and 9 races had yet to be called as of early Wednesday.

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/11/2014-elections-clinton-candidates-112559.html

Granted these were tough races in conservative states, but . . . . .

If the Clintons can't do better than that, why not take a long shot? Introduce some fresh blood, some new ideas, maybe even some real solutions instead of the boilerplate grab-bag of slogans???

When the old standards don't get much applause, we need to try some new tunes. Clearly, our Democratic old standards are not getting much play, and certainly no ovations.

Let's go for something that really will stir the country to its feet and stop singing the same old boring songs we've been hearing for ages. The Clintons are passee.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:29 AM

84. this is midterms.....this when you play defense

 

Trashing our party leaders id not going to accomplish thst

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:13 AM

78. In the wake of a historic drubbing that was framed as a referendum on Obama --

and conceded as such by the Dems who ran away from him -- you want to run a former Obama administration official.

I'll give you points for audacity.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #15)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:24 PM

103. Your strategy of running as Republican Lite LOST! Enormously!

How about we ignore the ignaramouses that suggest we should continue the strategy that just got us whipped.

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Response to LondonReign2 (Reply #103)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:59 PM

120. you can call it whatever you want

 

MY interest is in winning in 2016 not a repeat of last nite.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #120)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:02 PM

121. Your interest is in doubling down on the strategy that got our asses whipped

Pardon me if I choose not to join in the stupid

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Response to LondonReign2 (Reply #121)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:05 PM

123. the stupid is beating on the very candidates you

 

Know you will eventually vote for.... then feign innocence...

Its also hypocritical...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #123)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:07 PM

124. Stupid is listening to your doubling down of the strategy that LOST

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:48 AM

14. Divisiveness has got to stop now.

 

Does that mean you intend to stop making several false accusations per day against good liberals, claiming that they're secret Republicans? You don't have credibility on the subject of divisiveness.

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Response to DisgustipatedinCA (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:50 AM

18. no I am telling them to stop their bullshit playing

 

Support of Third Party candidates!

We have GOT to get our heads in the game...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:54 AM

30. Please, Vanilla

You are a shill and nothing more, and everyone with eyes that can see know this. How about you get your head in the game and realize the tired center-right strategies are over and start thinking dynamically and strategically, which means not walking right into a trap your opponents have set up ten steps ago.

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Response to BlindTiresias (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:39 AM

40. bullfuckingshit

 

How aboutYOU get your head in the game and stop pretending that the American electorate would elect someone from the far left..Bernie is not going to happen. And even if he did....we will be dealing with the results from tonite through multiple election cycles.....meaning he would be obstructed too.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:42 AM

42. Bernie far left?

hahaha you are delusional. Guess we know who the real republican is considering you want the Dems to dwell in complete obscurity.

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Response to BlindTiresias (Reply #42)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:07 AM

64. well he isnt lyndon larouche..

 

But out of all american contenders he is...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #64)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:08 AM

65. hahahaha

yeah ok, Ayn Rand. Get over yourself.

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Response to BlindTiresias (Reply #65)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:10 AM

67. ayn rand?

 

Loony

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:50 AM

17. why is it divisive to stop the Democratic Party on its suicide march to the right? Hillary

is a poster child for triangulating, phoney right wing, out of touch corporatist who has no clue about a VERY frustrated middle class.





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Response to whereisjustice (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:50 AM

19. GMAFB

 

Will you people never learn?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:54 AM

31. You people?

it is to laugh, the dems just got their butts kicked and you act like centre-right third way "realism" is still potent. Give me a break.

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Response to BlindTiresias (Reply #31)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:42 AM

43. yes you people.....

 

and you think your far left utopian America is just around the corner Idealist. I on the other hand understand what we are up against. I am a realist and understand you have to play defense too...and tonite proves that fact..

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #43)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:54 AM

49. Haha

yeah ok, republican.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:24 AM

37. Now IS the time for longshots.

The short shots were all purged in this election.

Look who won and who lost.

In California, liberals won. In Minnesota, liberal Franken won.

In Florida, liberal Alan Grayson won.

Watch the list of those who won and lost. The middle-of-the-roaders lost to conservatives. And it is no wonder. If you are going to vote for a conservative, why not vote for the real thing?

When Democrats do not offer the real thing, they cannot win anything real.

Wendy Davis won big among Hispanics.

She was a liberal who lost over all, but she won big in the growing demographic. That is a good sign.

Landriey, the compleat middle-of-the-roader in Louisiana did not pull enough votes to the Democratic side to insure a defeat in her run-off. It's going to be tough for her. I wish her luck but it is going to be tough.

Face it. This election although doomed to bring a Democratic defeat just based on the coincidence of the locations of the races is a defeat for Obama's middle-of-the-road policies.

Offering any sign of a compromise on Social Security, offering to cut it in the slightest, compromising with regard to budget items like unemployment benefits for the long-term unemployed, food stamps, etc. are not strategies that excite voters from the working class.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:57 AM

55. Bingo

Sorry to all the center-right dems, but your shit just got falsified yet again. Learn the lesson and Deal With It.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:02 AM

61. Wendy Davis did worse than our last candidate Bill White against Rick Perry

I think it was because she is a woman. They called her Abortion Barbie over and over and it stuck.

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Response to LeftInTX (Reply #61)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:29 PM

105. I like Wendy Davis, but she was a pretty bad candidate

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #37)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:45 AM

88. and risk all three branches....

 

Wow that would be a nightmare...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:21 PM

102. Yep, pretty much like it was just before 1776

If you are not willing gamble with some loss eventually you will still lose it anyway

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:57 AM

54. Turning right

has gotten us here

And now you want us to double down.

Its like you want us to lose 2016.

I want to win 2016. Lets find ways to build on the good things Obama has done, not ways to throw it away.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:58 AM

57. Yep

Like I said, Vanilla has been calling people Republican operatives but all this time she was the true Republican. What a twist!

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Response to BlindTiresias (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:38 AM

87. that is what YOUR side does...accusing Dems

 

Of being Dinos And republican lite.....I accuse them of being Indie....

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #54)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:33 AM

85. thats bullshit

 

Going far left is not going yo force the country to go with..sorry. We made alit of progress the
last few years and we didnt defend it.....just likr Bernie Sanders says we should...

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #85)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:52 PM

118. Bullshit is backpeddling and pretending that

doing the same things and expecting a different result will somehow work.

We tried the "we are just like republicans and we eschew traditional democratic values" approach to national elections.

Perhaps its time for something different. Democrats running as Democrats. They don't even have to be "far left". They could be "middle left". Just as long as they are actually on the left, that would make it a worthwhile trial.

We've got a sorry situation. The president has set an example, and a bunch of democratic candidates tried to one up him, and lost. He has governed toward the "center". People tried to abandon the presidents moderate positions and move past him headed right. Essentially they tried to run as moderate Republicans. It didn't work. Its time for a new strategy.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:54 PM

119. Your schtick is old and no one is buying it. /nt

 

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:22 AM

6. most anything besides gun control.

 

Gun control loses elections for Dems.

-app

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Response to appal_jack (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:46 AM

12. gun control?

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:23 AM

7. I guess we should keep trying. But unless we can shut up the asshole RW enabling media, it

won't happen.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:37 AM

8. Think of all the bullshit propaganda aimed at Obama in 2008.

 

A Black American, named Barack Hussein Obama, ran for President. If we can do THIS in 2008:





we can do it in 2016 as well.

And it's NOT about the candidate! It's about Liberal and Progressive Americans shedding their defeatism and moving the country forward.

It's about DEMANDING MORE and not stopping until WE GET IT.

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:40 AM

9. The entrenched Democratic establishment is pushing Hillary on us.

I wonder if she would get those crowds? We need to change the entrenchment.

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Response to Cleita (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:45 AM

10. DEMAND BETTER. Don't stop until WE GET IT. [n/t]

 

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:00 AM

59. Absolutely right on

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Response to Maedhros (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:31 PM

106. DAMN RIGHT!! +1

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Response to Cleita (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:54 AM

22. she is our best bet dammitt......whi do you have

 

That can say that? Does tonite teach you nothing about the American voter?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:56 AM

23. Yes. It teaches me that the stoopid is deep and far. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:58 AM

25. Exactly.....and you better come with your A Game...

 

And prepare for an unfair fight...better bring Defense....

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:59 AM

26. Go away. Your nonsensical posts don't wear well with me. n/t

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Response to Cleita (Reply #26)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:04 AM

27. go away? why....did I strike a nerve? Did you just learn

 

Something about American voters tonite?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:06 AM

34. Sadly, the Obama bashers will never learn.

They're already gearing up to be Hillary bashers.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #34)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:16 AM

35. yep...they never do see their own compliciteness

 

Bash bash bash is all they do....then wonder why turnout is so difficult.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #35)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:36 AM

39. Nobody is obligated to like Hillary

 

Politics have never worked that way.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #39)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:45 AM

44. you dont have to like her....its not about who you want to have a beer with.....

 

its about who can win

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #44)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:48 AM

46. It's about who can deliver

 

What matters to voters.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:51 AM

48. and she has....:-)do you want me to post my list again?

 

If delivery was so important to all voters....how do you explain their voting for repukes tonite......they certainly dont deliver. But i guess that is what you really want....

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #48)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:56 AM

51. Apparently not

They didn't agree with you that they deliver, as evidenced by results. To argue otherwise is delusion, but that is kind of your bag isn't it Vanilla?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #48)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:58 AM

56. They voted for repukes

 

...because the Democrats stupidly abandoned their base for the non existent 'center'.

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #48)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:04 AM

62. How indeed! Perhaps they didn't vote for repukes in the numbers we're being told.

Seriously, can you name a group of people besides old white men they didn't offend?

Either this country is inundated with massively stupid people (those that voted and those that didn't bother), or a lot of numbers were "fudged" and a lot of votes suppressed. Personally, I think it's all three of those things and some more besides. Remember, Republicans still own the voting machines and the vote counting machines, and billionaires own the Republicans and a good number of the Democrats as well.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:19 AM

72. Aging American, you nailed it. We've had a belly full of DINOs.

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Response to Sparky 1 (Reply #72)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:36 AM

86. okaaaay....lets just keep doing what we have been doing

 

Bashing Democrats......its worked out so well!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:34 PM

107. Hillary is the best...at continuing the death match to the right

Not surprising that you want to continue the strategy that just got our ass handed to us. Why is that?

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 09:25 PM

131. The problem wasn't the American voter - it was the American NOT voter.

When only 13 percent of people 18-30 voted in yesterday's election, it might be time to find out why. I doubt many of them could identify with most of our candidates.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:46 AM

11. We need to be just as extreme as them.

 

It's working for them.

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Response to Ykcutnek (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:59 AM

58. No way our DEMS want to be seen as "rocking the boat," "being political," or "being unwilling to

 

get along."

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:49 AM

16. I think you will have a hard time convincing the republicans in the party to do that. n/t

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:53 AM

21. Plank #1: Nationalize the TBTF banks, expropriate their assets, fire their

 

management and run them as publicly-held institutions. IOW, no profit motive, no richie riches getting rich by receiving privatized gains while socializing the risks.

Plank #2: A Guaranteed Annual Income for all American citizens and permanent residents, irrespective of employment status, race, gender, religion or sexual orientation.

Plank #3: Increase the marginal tax rate to 90% on all income over $100,000/year for single filers and $200,000/year for married filers.

Plank #4: Prosecution of Bush, Cheney and other members of the Junta for war crimes and crimes against humanity

Plank #5: Immediate implementation of Kyoto.

See? That wasn't hard, now was it?

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:49 AM

47. A good platform for losing BIG

 

The average American voter would be so fearful of this platform that tonight would look like a victory for us. But the Extrema Left would be very happy with our campaign, since they had a real choice. Unfortunately like 2000 the consequences would be very bad for our country, especially the SC

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Response to QuestionAlways (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:56 AM

53. Your assertion does not make it so. Did you bother to read the post that

 

began this thread? I'm replying to that OP.

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Response to QuestionAlways (Reply #47)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:25 PM

113. No, surprisingly

Contrary to popular opinion, Minnesota is blue only by a narrow margin, and some truly nutty conservatives have gotten elected in the rural and suburban districts.

When the banks were bailed out without penalty, the online comments in the local people reflected outrage from all parts of the political spectrum. The grouches who are in the habit of feeling clever because they repeat Rush Limbaugh's "jokes" were just as outraged as the lefties.

The deal was negotiated in the last days of Bush, and it infuriated EVERYONE. Literally EVERYONE who comments on the website.

The only time I have seen such unanimous comments was when some nursing home employees were accused of abusing patients. Everyone thought the employees deserved serious jail time.

Then when Obama got into office and bailed out the banks with no conditions attached, there was another round of outrage, with the righties saying, "See, he's no good" and the lefties saying, "This isn't what I voted for."

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #21)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:07 AM

63. I like it

But I think that #2 would kill it and result in failure.

For #1, no one loves the banks. At least, not many.
For #3, no one particularly loves the ridiculously rich, although I suspect changing it to a million would get a far better response. 100k is a lot, but I think most people could see themselves getting there, or at the very least believe that a person can do work to earn that amount. And I think that a better focus would be on the "all income" part. Doing away with the exemption of non-work income would do a lot, and its something I think many would identify with.
#4- Sure. Though I think the realistic window to capture public participation in this has past, and most now think of Bush as old news. It would fire Up the left, without really upsetting the greater populace.
#5- Eh. Sure, but I doubt its a big vote getter, by and large. The right would make some hay, but if it were approached right that could be mitigated.

But #2... people dont like seeing others get a benefit. If you successfully put through #3, and you solved the perceived budget issues of the country, you might be able to sell it. Someday. But right now, you are going to get absolutely destroyed at the polls with this one.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #63)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:13 AM

70. Thanks for the detailed consideration. Much appreciated. I was trying to

 

push what I thought helped further the OP's intent about promulgating a radical platform. My #2 is my own sense of how to create a really powerful social safety net that will also help smooth out the rough edges for the economy and liberate people to follow their dreams (once they have the assurance of a GAI). I'm tired now, but hope to dialog with you and the OP about this tomorrow and in the days to come.

My wife just reminded me to add a 6th plank: universal single-payer healthcare (or nationalized healthcare). In practical terms, healthcare providers would become federal employees and healthcare facilities would become federal property, with compensation to shareholders to be worked out as part of the transition.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:50 AM

28. who gives a damn

You people make me laugh. All of you. Like any of you think you have a choice, one way or the other.

PAY ATTENTION: the American people DO NOT CARE.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:50 AM

29. Yes, AND ...

 

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Response to 99th_Monkey (Reply #29)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:01 AM

60. You mean you DON'T trust Corporations to tell us how we actually voted?!?!

 

GOOD!

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:55 AM

32. First let's find out whether the election was legitimate.

No good talking about our agenda if people aren't allowed to vote.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #32)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:09 AM

66. Never gonna know.

Bradblog will provide various evidences.
the DOJ will be doing exactly Squat.
The Democratic party will be doing exactly Squat.

And we will never know how much of an impact fraud really had. We may have well founded suspicions, but we will never know.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #66)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:17 AM

71. Let's not just assume that.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #71)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 05:42 AM

74. Prove me wrong

Id love it to be otherwise. But I have 0 confidence that anyone with any real power in the system wants to see the problems corrected. And the few that might want to see it fixed seem easily co-opted by the "but we cant undermine voter confidence" scheme.

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Response to quakerboy (Reply #74)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 05:57 AM

75. It's not up to them. It's up to us.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #75)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:44 PM

117. You mean the "us" who can bring a criminal case?

or the us who didn't bother to show up and vote?

If its the first... then your firmly talking out your rectum, because they are a they, not an US. It is up to the JD to do the investigation and take people to court. They have access to a wide range of tools that the rest of us do not have to investigate the issues. And, frankly, they are paid to investigate. Its their bloody job. So no. Its up to them. Not us.

If its the second... propose a method that a person who's vote has been voided by tampering with a computer count that lacks any papertrail can use to get their vote counted? Particularly when all their elected reps just became R. Their vote is stolen and they have absolutely no recourse. You want them to show up again in 2 years so that it can be stolen again? I think they should, but its not exactly going to fix the situation.

This is, flat out, up to them, and not to us.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:00 AM

33. absolutely.

Campaign reform and a living wage. We need a living wage along with many other progressive policies but will never get them until campaigns are publicly funded.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:39 AM

41. The "Lets be the center party!" experiment

 

...has officially failed.

Time to go back to what had us in the majority for 40 years. The left.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:54 AM

50. Yep

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:04 PM

122. ^^ +a brazillion ^^

Thank you.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 03:56 AM

52. The ONLY "lesson" our Dems EVER "learn," is that they are not Republican enough. Expect Obama to

 

comply.

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:13 AM

69. Which will lose us even more elections in the future

 

nt

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 10:38 AM

93. Yes, I expect to hear the words "work across the isle" and "bipartisanship" quite a bit from the

President in the coming weeks as usual.

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Response to blkmusclmachine (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:27 PM

127. +1, that seems to be the case.

 

Or at least, that is always their spin.

I expect a lot more "compromising", personally-- and next to zero vetoes.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:11 AM

68. Upaloopa, you make a good point.

I'm a grandmother and all my life it's been a choice of voting for the lesser of two evils. What ever happened to voting for a good?

We can see where it's gotten us. Ever since the New Deal -- and especially since those who lived in that time and saw the benefits of it have died off -- this country has been drifting ever right-ward. We do, all of us, need to give it a large number of very hard yanks to the left just to get it back in the center.

We need to remember that fathers used to go to work and support the whole family while mothers stayed home -- plus they managed to get ahead. Compare that to today. We the People have been robbed blind. Time to start screaming our heads off about it and stop going along to get along. And stop voting for who the corrupt media tells us is the only one who can win. Hillary will get my vote if it's her versus a rethug. But make no mistake about it, she is firmly in the pockets of Wall Street plus the military industrial complex -- which is NOT what this country needs more of.

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Response to Sparky 1 (Reply #68)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:47 AM

89. that wont work..america fears change..

 

Last edited Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:28 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #89)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:27 PM

114. Anerca may fear change, but America wants it badly

which is why they voted for Obama, who did a good imitation of a progressive populist to get elected and then immediately settled into being a corporate lackey.

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Response to Lydia Leftcoast (Reply #114)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:29 PM

115. America STILL fears change

 

Or thi disaster wouldnt have happened

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #115)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 02:18 PM

125. Or was it former Dem voters staying home because of disappointment with

the way Obama caved in to corporate interests at every opportunity?

I saw how enthusiastic young Obama volunteers were. They hated Bush and hungered for change. They were jubilant in 2008 when he was elected. Then he went and did everything he could to prove that he was in thrall to the corporate donors: a condition-free bank bailout with the criminal banksters allowed to keep their jobs and bonuses "because contracts are sacred" while the auto workers' contracts were somehow not sacred; refusing to push for single payer or even a public option; intensifying the war in Afghanistan, wanting the Patriot Act renewed, extending the Bush tax cuts, espousing ruinous "free" trade treaties that are negotiated in secret, putting Wall Street types and Republicans in his Cabinet, favoring the XL pipeline, putting a charter school advocate in charge of the Department of Education, need I go on?

This is NOT what the Obama volunteers of 2008 (I was not one, by the way, because I saw through his fake populist shtick) wanted, and if the Republicans had nominated someone halfway decent in 2012 (a real Eisenhower Republican, for example), Obama would not have coasted to victory in 2012. It is by sheer dumb luck that the Dems had an opponent who was such an obvious Chatsworth Osborne Jr. type.

If you think that a corporate-appeasing faker is the best we can do, then I feel sorry for you.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 04:19 AM

73. What is amazing

Is that several positions that are staples of the American left (cannabis and increasing the minimum wage) passed but the Republicans still won. This should be a strong signal that the days of center-right orthodoxy in the Democratic party are numbered and it is time for the party to embrace new players who want a more dynamic and more engaged direction for the party that is outside of the stale, decades old attitudes of the current leadership.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 07:39 AM

76. Sadly, a Left Turn has not been the trend

For decades the Democratic Party has been responding to defeat by trying to be more like the Party that defeated them.

I'm not sure whether this is due more to the influence of corporate money or the utter cluelessness of the Democratic Party.

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Response to Martin Eden (Reply #76)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 11:24 AM

97. Definitely money

 

Money has corrupted this government until it is hard to distinguish it from the fascists of Italy & Germany in the '30's & 40's.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:26 AM

82. The presidency is a pretty big "nothing".

So is the chance to retake the senate.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 11:12 AM

95. Sorry. Per Citizens United, it's a one-way street.

Left turns are no longer allowed.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 11:19 AM

96. Except that "we" are not the ones in charge

In the party, I am expecting a hard turn, but to the right.

Us rank and filers aren't even on the radar of the people running the show.

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Response to Bettie (Reply #96)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:39 PM

116. This.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:13 PM

101. Oh, we have much more we can lose.

Much more. Be careful what you wish for. Truly.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #101)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 12:36 AM

132. Yes, like a lot of lives of people I know. But we don't count in this equation, clearly.

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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:35 PM

108. Isn't that what we thought we were doing in 2008?

 

Warren or Sanders seem to be the only way this time.

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #108)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:45 PM

109. Yes it was but we didn't follow through.

I remember comparing Obama's point in time with FDR's and saying we need a new New Deal. We never got it. We got the need for "bipartisanship" we tried to compromise with the devil. The rest is history.
I expect to hear more of the same from Obama today.

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Response to upaloopa (Reply #109)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 12:47 PM

110. What do you mean "we"? Obama picked Summers and Geitner before he even got into office.

 

He made the decision to go center-right before any of us had a chance to blink.

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Response to Dawgs (Reply #110)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 01:01 PM

111. Well I wasn't up on those guys back then.

I was still star struck and had visions of sugar plums dancing in my head.
I saw the unicorns that fart glitter stampeding toward me.
I gave a lot of money that I could have spent better and wished I had.


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Response to upaloopa (Original post)

Wed Nov 5, 2014, 08:44 PM

130. Is there any identified voter

Who voted Republican, especially in a red state, who says the would have voted for a Democrat had the Democrat been "hard left?"

Is there really any identified voter who says they decided not to vote because there was no candidate hard left enough?

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