Anybody here want to tell me the NRA is mainstream?

[kpete]

Anyone still maintaining that the NRA is a mainstream organization devoted to gun hobbyists, gun education, and take-your-pick should probably take a gander at the special NRA magazine's special election issue and then kindly shut the hell up:

?1414522810



http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/10/27/nras-election-message-vote-your-guns-because-is/201329

Among the things LaPierre told readers to be afraid of:

An electromagnetic pulse attack (EMP) that could kill "as much as 90 percent of the population of the U.S." by bringing about the reemergence of "Third World" diseases like "amoebic dysentery, typhoid, and cholera -- killing our youngest and frailest family members."

A cyber attack that would put "our economy into a tailspin" and possibly become "deadly" if hackers took over a dam or oil processing facility.

An attack "along the lines of the 2008 attacks in Mumbai, India, where terrorists launched a dozen coordinated attacks, gunning down innocent victims at hotels, a bar, a train station, a hospital and a movie theater," killing 164 people.

An incident similar to a 2013 terrorist attack on a mall in Kenya where "[f]our armed terrorists linked to al Qaeda were able -- thanks to Kenya's strict anti-gun laws -- to spend four days torturing, mutilating and gunning down shoppers with almost no fear of reprisal."

Mexican drug cartels constituted of "waves of drug smugglers, kidnappers, sex-slave traffickers and criminals of all kinds who invade our country from the south every day."

He also warned of general civil unrest, including rioting "just for the sheer hell of it" (emphasis original):

Even if you take terrorists and criminals out of the picture, chaos is an ever-present danger to Americans today -- especially when you factor in the undercurrent of social unrest that seethes beneath the surface of much of our society. How many times have we seen peaceful protests in this country degenerate into riots, looting, shootings, arsons and worse? How many times have we seen crowds turn into angry mobs after court decisions they didn't like, sports team defeats they felt were unfair, natural disasters that collapsed civil order -- or just for the sheer hell of it?

MORE:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/11/02/1339842/-Channeling-militia-rhetoric-NRA-magazine-delivers-conspiracy-riddled-Vote-Your-Guns-issue?showAll=yes
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/10/27/nras-election-message-vote-your-guns-because-is/201329

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

1. They are about as "Mainstream" as the Klan or White Citizens Councils.

[SkyDaddy7]

17. HURRY! HURRY! HURRY!

Run out and buy yerself an AR-15 cause them ISISeses is crossing the border with prayer mats & that there Ebolie! I know its true the NRA said so!! HURRY!!

[Electric Monk]

22. WOLVERINES!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1262&pid=7328

[SkyDaddy7]

28. EXACTLY!! nt.

[Bigmack]

72. Sorry in advance for the rant....

Every time I even see a reference to that fucking "Red Dawn" movie, I get apoplectic.

The idea that untrained yahoos could stand up - for two minutes - against trained troops is a wet-dream fantasy of the Tea-types who figure they will be the agents of change in this country.

The NRA cultivates their fears of everygoddamthing, and then Hollywood gives them the idea that they are badasses, and their fucking Glocks, or AK-47s, or AR-15s, or fucking deer rifles will make them into Superheroes who will save the country from the Socialists/Communists/Liberals/whoever.

The Founding Fathers made it clear that the last justified Revolution was their revolution, and anybody who raised a weapon against the our government would get their asses kicked.

[Electric Monk]

80. No need for apology, for me anyways. You are totally preaching to the choir here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1262&pid=421

[paleotn]

33. It's not only the gun manufacturers who benefit

from such blatant scare mongering. There are whole industries based solely on American's irrational fears. Fear sells I guess, almost as well as sex.

[etherealtruth]

41. We call them republicans

[paleotn]

47. sociopaths, profiting from the fear and misfortune of others...

....sounds like republicans to me too.

[etherealtruth]

48. .

[hifiguy]

78. Indeed

[Skittles]

2. they represent paranoid cowards

all the people they fear would be great fans of the NRA

[Hoyt]

3. There are people on DU who believe the NRA is only promoting guns, not right wing

agenda. Gunz are bad enough, but their leadership is not just lobbying for more gunz.

[Hoyt]

7. Are you really that obtuse? Do you think the NRA News above is just about gunz?

I realize you have 3 safes full of gunz, but that seems to have only impeded your judgement.

Ted nugent, Grover norquust, John bolton, ollie north, etc., ain't just promoting guns when they sign off on NRA contributions and political support and ads.

[Lex]

9. They are promoting fear

to the ignorant and scared.

[Orrex]

18. And their ignorant, frightened acolytes are more than happy to take up the cause.

I would never accuse them of being gun fetishists, of course.

[SomethingFishy]

13. Well if you aren't blind then you would see they are promoting

the right wing version of the end of the world. "It's a Dangerous World Out There"... What a crock of shit. Violent crime is at it's lowest in decades, ISIS is a handful of ignorant cavemen, Ebola is not coming to get us, the ACA while not much of a solution, certainly didn't bring about the Apocalypse...

To a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Apparently to a fearful NRA member, everyone is a criminal, and the world is coming to get you, lock your doors, arm yourselves, and be vigilant.

What a shitty way to live.

[ZombieHorde]

5. They have supported Democratic candidates in Montana.

The Dems in Montana usually get an A rating from them. Hunting is very big for both Democrats and Republicans in Montana.

[paleotn]

35. The irony is, you don't have to believe

the NRA bullshit to support hunting. You don't have to be a gun nut and hold dear all that entails and also support hunting.

[ZombieHorde]

50. I completely agree.

I support hunting, but I don't care for the NRA. The NRA loves to tell us how Washington is just about to take our guns and only our contributions will stop them. Be afraid!!!11!!!

[ZombieHorde]

6. I don't know what "mainstream" means in the context of the OP.

I am not a fan of the NRA, but they seem pretty popular in the US.

[X_Digger]

44. All the topics in the article have been featured on CNN.

Ebola? Check. ISIS/ISIL/WTFBBQ? Check. EMP? Check.

[Lex]

8. They appeal to pants-wetters.

How pathetic.

[etherealtruth]

10. Definitely mainstream ...

... if one is a right wing republican.

They follow the right wing playbook to a"t"

Inside The NRA's Koch-Funded Dark-Money Campaign
How the National Rifle Association sold its grassroots firepower to the Kochs, Karl Rove, and conservative donors.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/nra-koch-brothers-karl-rove

[Turbineguy]

11. "....killing our youngest and frailest family members...."

Sounds like they feel threatened by competition.

[spanone]

12. they are despicable. partnering with ISIS to sell guns. what patriots.

dear wayne....

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[Logical]

14. Any group that has a nut and an idiot like Ted Nugent on their Board Of Directors is not a......

real organization. He is a racist right wing nut. If the NRA was legit they would ask him to resign.

[justice1]

15. A candidate for the Nebraska Legislature told me last week, the NRA gave him an "F".

He is a retired marine, who believes people need training to own firearms, and doesn't think the public should have access to machine guns.

[blkmusclmachine]

16. Fear-guns-religion-fear-guns-religion-fear-guns-religion-fear-guns-religion-fear-guns-religion-fear-

[MisterP]

19. "Democrats lose because they don't do as the NRA says"--ahhh, how I remember that old canard

[branford]

20. Whether you like them or not, the NRA is definitely mainstream.

Last edited Sun Nov 2, 2014, 07:41 PM - Edit history (1)

They are a legal organization with over 5 millions dues paying members, including numerous elected representatives of both parties on the federal, state and local levels. They set the standard in firearms training and safety, and their lobbying arm, the NRA-ILA, is warmly welcomed in most halls of government. Numerous polls show their approval rating consistently over 50% of the American people.

It does not matter if you loath them and disagree with everything they stand for and advocate, but they are most definitely mainstream, far more popular than many liberal organizations, and a political, social and legal force of immense influence.

[flamin lib]

24. Five million? Depends on what number you believe.

One number, 5 mil, comes from the NRA's ass. The other number is the circulation of their magazine which is a benefit of paying dues. That number is 3 mil. That number is important and has to be accurate becaus advertising rates are based on it. They lie.

[branford]

32. Are you actually claiming that the NRA is not mainstream because

they allegedly only have 3 million members? Amnesty International has 3 million internationally, Planned Parenthood only has 700,00, the ACLU only 500,000, and the Brady Campaign only claims 600,000 (with only about 50,000 actual donors).

As I stated, regardless of your opinion about the organization, they are very large, popular, accepted and influential. Decrying them as outside the mainstream is ludicrous, contrary to reality and serves no practical purpose.

[Curmudgeoness]

45. They were not always as political as they are today.

I know of four lifetime members who have said that they would never become members now. One of them is a very conservative Republican and was an avid gun collector back in the 1960-70's who showed me his collection, and many of the guns are plugged and are not functional because that was the law at the time he bought them. And he has no problem with that.

But they have not given up their membership because they believe that the only way to change the direction of the organization back to what it was when they got their lifetime memberships many years ago. Not that it seems to be working, but they still hope. Since I know so few people who are members at all, those four and their views are significant to me.

[calimary]

26. And whether you or anybody else might like it or not, the NRA isn't the only thing that has rights.

I have rights, too. I have rights. I have the right to live in peace and not be menaced or intimidated or bullied by gun goons parading around in public asserting that THEIR rights trump MINE and they can mar my field of vision with their goddamn guns.

THEIR "rights" DO NOT trump MINE!!!!! After all, their "precious" amendment is the SECOND Amendment, NOT the FIRST. The First Amendment is FIRST, for a reason. There's a reason why presumptive gun "rights" weren't mentioned or listed or codified first. Something else (actually SEVERAL something elses) was deemed more important.

[kairos12]

29. They believe in the First Amendment also. As long it is scare mongering, hate spewing swill.

[branford]

38. The OP questioned whether the NRA is mainstream in America,

not whether you agreed with or supported them.

You believe is strong gun control, that much clear. However, are you really suggesting that the NRA is not mainstream because of your objections?

As to your analysis of rights based on the order of the Amendments in the Bill of Rights, it is simply ludicrous and not based on any rationale or accepted jurisprudence. More importantly, under the First Amendment, the NRA has the same protections and freedom to advocate their positions concerning firearms and to petition and lobby the government, as you do to protest their efforts and seek greater gun control.

[noiretextatique]

67. so...you think la pierre's views are "mainstream?"

the NRA is about as mainstream as the KKK.

[branford]

71. "Mainstream" has nothing whatsoever to do with whether or not you agree with the NRA.

main·stream: noun

the ideas, attitudes, or activities that are regarded as normal or conventional; the dominant trend in opinion, fashion, or the arts.

You can personally believe that the NRA is the embodiment of unadulterated evil on earth, but by any rationale understanding of the term, they are most certainly "mainstream" in America. In fact, from the apparent tone of your post, at least one of the reasons for your disgust toward the organization is precisely because it is so mainstream, popular and influential.

[noiretextatique]

74. i do not believe the NRA is remotely "mainstream"

they are a well-funded advocacy group (funded by the gun lobby) that preys on people's fears. nothing remotely mainstream about them. most americans support some form of gun control...only the extremists, like yourself, and the NRA reject common sense protections.

[branford]

75. Believe whatever you like.

However, refusing to acknowledge an organization with millions of dues paying members, who are welcomed and respected in the halls of government, whose opinions sway many millions of voters, and with a overall approval north of 50% of all Americans, as outside the mainstream, is simply ludicrous.

Even if everything you allege about them is true, funded by gun lobby, preying on people's fears, etc., it has absolutely nothing to do with whether they're an accepted and acknowledged member of our culture and society. Your acceptance or agreement is not required for mainstream acceptability or respectability. The fact that so many threads are devoted to complaining about the power and influence of the NRA and "gun humper" voters, by itself, is ample evidence of how the NRA is mainstream, to the eternal astonishment and regret you and others.

If the NRA is outside the mainstream due to its politically polarizing nature, innumerable liberal groups popular on DU, such as Planned Parenthood or many unions, with far less popularity or influence, would similarly be well outside the mainstream.

[etherealtruth]

27. I agree(but add)they are aright wing conservative group

Mobilizing the NRA's estimated 4 million members "is always a critical part of the equation for us on the Republican side," says Charlie Black, a veteran GOP operative who was an adviser to Mitt Romney's and Sen. John McCain's presidential campaigns.

But 2012 was different: The NRA wasn't simply reaching out to its core constituency—it was reeling in big checks from conservative funders eager to take advantage of its grassroots muscle. The arrangement was mutually beneficial: The NRA burnished its reputation as a political force to be reckoned with, while donors invested in the kind of all-out GOTV effort they had once expected from the Republican Party itself.

Overall, the NRA spent just north of $25 million on last year's election: $7 million supporting Republican candidates, and $18 million attacking Democrats. This spending spree was boosted by the Supreme Court's 2010 Citizens United ruling, which paved the way for activist groups to raise and spend unlimited amounts explicitly promoting or attacking candidates. The NRA also appealed to patrons who preferred to fly under the radar: The organization and its lobbying arm are both 501(c)(4) "social welfare" nonprofits and do not have to reveal their donors.
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/nra-koch-brothers-karl-rove

[branford]

36. They became a conservative group because many in our party have supported more gun control.

The NRA historically was primarily interested in hunting and shooting sports. They became active politically with the rising trends toward gun control. They are a one issue organization, but the particular issue is part of the culture war and very important to conservatives. They still financially support and highly grade some Democrats, mainly from more gun-friendly and rural areas in the South, Southwest and Midwest, and this is the reason why restrictions that are lawful under the Second Amendment, such as universal background checks, are unable to pass in a Democratically-controlled Senate.

The OP was whether the NRA was a mainstream organization. Conservative or not, the NRA is undeniably mainstream, even if they are polarizing to many.

[etherealtruth]

39. I agreed, many right wing groups are "mainstream"

They are following the right wing playbook to a "T" ... their fear campaign mirrors the overall conservative campaign points. One can find the exact same theme (be afraid of x,y and z....we can protect you from that)... that is the theme of the conservatives this year.

Mainstream... yes .... conservative fear mongering ... yes (again, a mainstream RIGHT WING group ... in bed with the Koch brothers and other right wing groups)

[ncjustice80]

65. Achieving widespread, and extremely strict, gun control would be a feather in the cap of whoever

Could get it done. I long for the day I can give conservative family members a rash of shit over them having tonhandover their micropenis enhancers to the government

[branford]

69. Moderate gun control couldn't pass a Democratic Senate after Sandy Hook.

Bill Clinton believed the assault weapons ban cost him Congress, and gun control is widely believed to have cost Gore his home state of Tennessee in the election, and with it the presidency. The assault weapons ban has expired, with no real hope of return, and gun laws have substantially liberalized around most of the country. This was all before the Heller and McDonald decisions.

To the extent permissible by the Second Amendment and state constitutional analogs, what makes you believe that the majority of Americans even want "extremely strict gun control?"

Do you really believe that you will convince gun owners and their supporters, including a large number of Democrats, of the wisdom of firearm restrictions with your condescending attitude and puerile insults? ("micropenis enhancers," really? I'm sure that'll sell well with female gun owners).

[ncjustice80]

76. It only took one shooting in Australia for that country to see the light

And ban all weapons. Its pathetic we as Americans cant do the same. Hopefully this will change in the next 20 years.

[branford]

77. America is not Australia, and vice versa.

The right to keep and bear arms was never an integral part of their cultural history or constitution.

In fact, in the last 20 years, gun laws have substantially liberalized around much of the country. Recall, the expired Federal Assault Weapons Ban was passed in 1994, 20 years ago. Now, even universal background checks are unable to pass a Democratically-controlled Senate after a massacre of children at Sandy Hook (no less a Republican House), and now every state in the nation has some form of open and/or concealed carry, including Chicago and Washington, D.C. With the increasing security and terrorist threats and militarization of our police and security apparatus, the majority of Americans are likely to want to keep pace with the government and have a means to adequately protect themselves. On a more egalitarian note, women are also one of the largest demographics of purchasers of new firearms. In another 20 years things may very well be different, but at the current trajectory, you will probably not like what you see.

You're certainly entitled to the opinion that it's "pathetic" that Americans will not ban all weapons, and are free to advocate for greater firearm restrictions and even the repeal of the Second Amendment (which only caps the permissible restrictions, it does not grant the right to own or carry firearms). However, the majority of Americans do not agree with your viewpoint, including a sizable number of Democrats.

Lastly, the NRA is only tangentially relevant to the overall discussion, and their prominence is the result of individuals like yourself who seek not only restrictions, but outright bans. There are over 300+ million legal firearms in the USA, with over a third of all individuals owning a weapon, and with crime rates the lowest in decades and continuing to fall, the few million NRA members represent just a mere fraction of support for firearms ownership and use.

[ncjustice80]

82. Its mostly rural/red. Support for gun control is strong in urbanized areas.

Its unfortunate that the gun humpers hold the rest our nation histage with their need to cling to their assault rifle and semi automatic pistols amd other implemwnta of micro mass destruxtion. Other countries dont have a 100th of the shooting we do. The American people need to wise up and turn their guns.over to be melted down. It will make America a better place.

[branford]

83. You just need to convince actual voters.

Good luck, you'll certainly need it.

According to polls as recently as last month, less than half of Americans favor any stricter gun laws at all, and the call for more stringent laws has settled at record lows, all while crime is also at record lows and declining, and gun laws have liberalized across most of the country.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/179045/less-half-americans-support-stricter-gun-laws.aspx

Also, for a friendly recommendation, you should stop the insulting "gun humper" nonsense and reject ridiculous terms like "implements of micro mass destruction." Do you honestly believe such juvenile displays make you more credible, informed or convincing?

[paleotn]

40. Hmmm. Any evidence that their approval rating is over 50%?

....No offense, but my gut reaction is bullshit. As urbanized as the American population is, I find 50%+ hard to believe. I could believe a solid 30 to 35% positive reaction nationally more reasonable, like most wingnuttery.

[branford]

43. Sigh . . . Even organizations with popular support of 30-35% are definitely mainstream.

You're arguing around the edges.

However, for your reference,

http://www.gallup.com/poll/159578/nra-favorable-image.aspx#

Even immediately after Sandy Hook, the unquestioned lowest ebb for the NRA and the highest point for gun control in many years, the NRA had an overall 42% popularity (and it is widely acknowledged that these numbers have evened-off, as the lack of new gun control discussions, no less legislation, can attest).

http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/main/2013/01/images-of-nra-congressional-republicans-on-the-decline.html

To state the point more bluntly, the NRA had a higher level of popularity after Sandy Hook than President Obama has today, just a few days before a national election.

Just because and organization is polarizing, does not mean it is not fairly popular and mainstream.

You can oppose the NRA, even hate everything it stands for, but not to acknowledge them as mainstream is to deny reality.

[paleotn]

51. Thanks for the info....

.... Not denying they are mainstream. Where I live, they are quite mainstream. Foolish fears run deep around here. Their national approval % seemed high, but I suppose that just shows that scary propaganda works. Even when it's meant only to enrich the gun industry.

[branford]

54. My best guess is the NRA's popularity is skewed by region.

Their popularity numbers are probably much higher in the South, Southwest and Midwest, and much lower in New England, the Mid Atlantic states and the more densely populated parts of the West Coast. There is probably also significant rural, suburban and urban differences. These discrepancies are what makes guns such a culture war issue.

Denying that the NRA is mainstream, popular or influential serves no purpose, and I do not understand the desire by some to do so. They are a strong one issue advocacy organization (at least the NRA-ILA, the basic NRA doesn't lobby) that inherently skews conservative due primarily to demographics, not unlike liberal-aligned groups such as Planned Parenthood.

The NRA is not some boogeyman or all-powerful organization, but they do have significant popular support and are excellent fundraisers and political strategists and tacticians. Rather than complain incessantly about them, we should learn from them, and as appropriate, emulate their tactics to our benefit, whether the issue is guns or anything else.

Lastly, I would note with some irony that the two biggest gun rights victories in recent years, the Heller and McDonald decisions, had nothing to do with the NRA, but were the brainchild of the Second Amendment Foundation.

[Hoyt]

53. The TParty is considered mainstream by some.. Doesn't make them right.

[branford]

55. The OP wasn't about whether the NRA is right, only if they were mainstream.

Denying the NRA's popularity serves no useful purpose. Admitting the obvious grants them no more power, nor diminishes your opposition.

In order to have any chance of successfully opposing them or the issues they advocate, you must acknowledge their strengths.

[Hoyt]

57. The OP is about them being right/fair. That's why the cover is there.

They are a right wing organization, pushing a RW agenda.

[RadicalGeek]

21. And Folks Wonder Why I Call The NRA

"Redneck Taliban", and the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence calls them "Insurrectionists" and why the Southern Poverty Law Center has GOA head Larry Pratt listed among neo-nazi's and white supremacists. . .

[Orrex]

23. The AR-15 is the ideal weapon for repelling typhoid and EMPs.

[Enthusiast]

25. This life long hunter is anti-NRA.

They are contributing to the drive toward Idiocracy.

[etherealtruth]

49. .

[NutmegYankee]

59. I dislike them because of what they did in Virginia in 01.

Mark Warner was far more pro-gun than the Republican Mark Earley, but the NRA chose to not endorse anyone rather than endorse a Democrat. I've despised 'em ever since.

Warner went on to win and is now the senior senator in VA.

[aikoaiko]

30. Yes, the asshat NRA hyperbole is outrageous, but yet the NRA politically outmaneuvers....

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 06:47 AM - Edit history (1)

...the best and brightest on the gun restrictionist side.

Crazy. Maybe like a fox.

[Jackpine Radical]

31. There's nothing like an M-16 with a bagful of 30-round clips

to defend yourself against amœbic dysentery.

[scarystuffyo]

34. You want to know the scariest thing about the NRA

The gun people who own assault rifles think the NRA doesn't go far enough in supporting gun rights.

[humbled_opinion]

37. I have heard some teabags at my job

saying that when the shit hits the fan, they are going to need their guns to protect from all the Obama zombies that have been told that we didn't build what we have and that some how we are all in it together so they may feel like they can come and take from those that are prepared. Their fear is when the country implodes economically and the welfare, snap, Obamaphones stop what are all those millions of people going to do?

LOL Irrational people shouldn't be allowed to own guns anyway, I wonder if I can report them for their dangerous behavior?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

42. What do you mean by "mainstream"?

I find it hard to imagine a sane definition of mainstream that excludes the NRA in the context of American politics.

I suspect that you're using "mainstream" to mean "having views I do not think are stupid", in which case the NRA obviously isn't mainstream, but that's not a useful way to use that word.

[LiberalArkie]

46. Most of my liberal Democratic friends who would go to protests, who would

go to pride events (even though they are straight), who go and hand out fliers and all things they feel that they should do to help the liberal thought pattern. But mention anything concerning guns. Be prepared for a fist fight.

The NRA is more of a religion than Christianity is.

Most of my friends only have 1 or 2 guns, usually a handgun. They never use them, but the thought of registering them and they go ballistic. It is almost a form of mental problem. They are nice and calm discussing all the problems with a liberal democratic point of view, but gun comes up and they look different.

[NutmegYankee]

56. They think of them as a civil right.

I have very liberal views, particularly economic, and I own guns. If your world view is that of an egalitarian, you tend to fight for rights. I've been an ACLU member for nearly 3 decades now based on that worldview.

Your friends react the way they do because they go into the same mode they would if someone challenged the right to free speech or the right to privacy.

[LiberalArkie]

58. I guess so. After the elections none of them ever vote D. "I just couldn't vote for Obama, since he

would make me give up my gun". Every single time. liberal in sprit, but would give up everything as long has they can keep their pistol.

[NutmegYankee]

60. That's unusual.

Usually liberal gun owners still vote D, even if laws are passed. I'm not completely thrilled with a few minor aspects of Malloy's law here in CT, but I'm still voting for him.

[LiberalArkie]

61. I am in the south. I fully except Arkansas to be solid red.

I had a white co-worker with a black wife and 50/50 children. He would be in work meetings talking about all the "nig$%rs" stealing his pay check. I am so glad I retired, they were driving me insane. I had a roommate and we agreed on just about everything, but all his mail comes from the NRA and the republicans.

I really think the only way to get things turned around is for the R's to win everything and let everyone see them for what they are.

[branford]

62. Or, the Democrats could learn from the mistakes of Clinton, Gore, and

now Obama, and drop the gun control agenda.

As you acknowledge, there are a lot of liberals and more moderate Democrats who also support gun rights as an important civil right, and will vote on the issue. Eliminate guns as a partisan issue in many areas, and Democrats might win far more elections, and can advance a more broad Democratic agenda.

[LiberalArkie]

63. I really think if there were some liberal D's running, we might have a chance. There is not a single

d running that is anti gun or even close. I guess people are just really too stupid to vote. I think we would be better off if there was a poll tax of 10 million dollars to vote in the election. I would bet that we might have a better chance of have a progressive government.

[branford]

64. It's not just that certain D's may individually support gun rights.

If our party overall is hostile and disparaging to gun owners and their supporters, many will believe these pro-gun (or neutral) Democrats will ultimately tacitly support firearm restrictions. Party membership means something, as many Democrats running away from Obama this election can attest.

The extent of how broad our appeal will be in certain areas of the country will be limited by the party's hostility to firearms. This is a fact.

[etherealtruth]

70. Our party isalsohostile to those that areanti-choice ...

...in those same parts of the country. We, as a party, could also bow to pressure and attract those voters if we just became less hostile to those opposing women's rights This is a fact!

[branford]

73. Not an appropriate comparison.

Those who hold pro-life views also mostly hold other very conservative views. Even if Democrats abandoned a pro-choice platform, it would attract few voters.

However, many very liberal and moderate Democrats also support gun rights, some very strongly, particularly in purple states. There is often a significant overlap between gun owners and many traditional Democratic constituencies like labor.

You are free to be as sarcastic and self-righteous as you wish, but you should inquire of people like Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and more recently, Governor Hickenlooper from Colorado, about the crossover of otherwise loyal Democrats and gun rights supporters, and its political impact on our entire agenda.

[ncjustice80]

66. Are you truly liberal if you value a death machine over voting D???

[noiretextatique]

68. probably not

just a guess. but you can play one on the internet for a while.

[Godot51]

52. Fear (Is a Man's Best Friend)

[badtoworse]

79. The NRA is about protecting 2nd Amendment rights and they are very good at it.

ETA: Whether you like them or not they are definitely mainstream

[True Blue Door]

81. The NRA is basically Stormfront with business suits.