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Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:08 AM

NY Ebola Infected Doctor Flew To U.S. By Way of Europe

Does the U.S. have the current ability to track the millions of folks who fly in from other areas besides Africa with a further ability to trace where their flights may have originally originated from within the past week? In Dr. Spencer's case, he had a three day lay over in Europe.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/24/nyregion/craig-spencer-is-tested-for-ebola-virus-at-bellevue-hospital-in-new-york-city.html?_r=0

Dr. Spencer had been working with Doctors Without Borders in Guinea treating Ebola patients, and completed his work on Oct. 12, Dr. Bassett said. He flew out of the country on Oct. 14, traveling via Europe, and arrived in New York on Oct. 17.

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Reply NY Ebola Infected Doctor Flew To U.S. By Way of Europe (Original post)
TomCADem Oct 2014 OP
ann--- Oct 2014 #1
CTyankee Oct 2014 #2
ann--- Oct 2014 #4
TomCADem Oct 2014 #6
LisaL Oct 2014 #10
TomCADem Oct 2014 #12
LisaL Oct 2014 #14
TomCADem Oct 2014 #15
crazylikafox Oct 2014 #16
TomCADem Oct 2014 #17
Yo_Mama Oct 2014 #23
riderinthestorm Oct 2014 #24
ann--- Oct 2014 #25
riderinthestorm Oct 2014 #27
ann--- Oct 2014 #29
riderinthestorm Oct 2014 #32
TomCADem Oct 2014 #3
ann--- Oct 2014 #5
markpkessinger Oct 2014 #19
ann--- Oct 2014 #21
greatlaurel Oct 2014 #31
CTyankee Oct 2014 #7
ann--- Oct 2014 #9
SheilaT Oct 2014 #30
malaise Oct 2014 #8
Warren Stupidity Oct 2014 #11
TomCADem Oct 2014 #13
Warren Stupidity Oct 2014 #20
Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #18
MineralMan Oct 2014 #22
hedgehog Oct 2014 #26
The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2014 #28

Response to TomCADem (Original post)


Response to ann--- (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:19 AM

2. His fiancee is currently being quarantined in NYC.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #2)


Response to ann--- (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:32 AM

6. Ultimately, His Delay Could Be Fatal

The fact that the Dallas nurses were diagnosed early probably helped their chances.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2014-10-23/dallas-nurses-infected-with-ebola-are-improving

Two Ebola-infected Dallas nurses are improving, as doctors work to save them from the deadly virus and teach other hospitals how to prevent more infections.

Amber Vinson, 29, is now free of the virus and will be moved out of isolation, her family said in a statement. Nina Pham, 26, the first person to catch Ebola in the U.S., was upgraded from fair to good condition on Oct. 21, said the National Institutes of Health.

“Further treatment will be necessary as Amber continues to regain strength, but these latest developments have truly answered prayers,” Debra Berry, Vinson’s mother, said in an e-mailed statement.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #6)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:37 AM

10. What delay?

He got symptoms Thursday morning from what we are told.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #10)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:57 AM

12. His 103 Fever Hit On Thursday...

...but he reported feeling somewhat tired as early as Tuesday. What is odd is that the Dallas nurse did report elevated temperatures (before going to Ohio) before her temperature spiked. This is what strikes me as odd. Does Ebola just result in a 103 degree spiked fever (NY Doctor) or does the temperature elevate over a few days as was reported with the Dallas nurse. This is why it sounds like there was a delay.

http://www.boston.com/health/2014/10/23/ebola-today-north-korea-bans-foreign-tourists-out-ebola-fear/559NpdQlaDFqUPyoJBmP1N/story.html

On Oct. 21, Dr. Spencer “began to feel somewhat tired” but Bassett emphasized that the first actual symptoms began Thursday between 10 and 11 a.m. this morning with a fever and some other symptoms. He was brought to Bellevue Hospital as a person considered at high risk for Ebola.

The day before his symptoms began, Spencer went on a three-mile jog and took the New York Subway A train, No. 1 train, and L train. Spencer also went to a bowling alley in Williamsburg and was feeling well at that time except for his feeling of fatigue, according to Dr. Bassett. The bowling alley is closed waiting for inspection by public health officials. Spencer had close contact with his fiance and three friends who are all healthy and being quarantined. One of the contacts is in the hospital. Bassett said Spencer also took an Uber car home, but he had no physical contact with the driver and the driver isn’t considered to be at risk.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:59 AM

14. His fever was actually 100.3, not 103.

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Response to LisaL (Reply #14)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 08:01 AM

15. Thanks. You Are Right. Just Saw The New AP Update

You can only go on the facts that are reported an earlier reports were that he had a 103 degree fever, which given the timeline, did not make sense.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #12)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 08:04 AM

16. Temperature was only 100.3

Heard this AM that the 103 we were hearing about last night was a misquote.

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Response to crazylikafox (Reply #16)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 08:06 AM

17. Yup, So, There Was Not A Delay

If his temp was a 103, then I thought there had to be a delay. 100.3 makes more sense.

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Response to ann--- (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 09:53 AM

23. She didn't isolate herself

The fact that her fiance was taken to the hospital and quarantined shows that. For a couple of days before being diagnosed she was at home, apparently feeling ill. Before that it was normal activity.

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Response to ann--- (Reply #4)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:02 AM

24. Nina Pham and the rest of the med team treating Duncan were still working!

 

Nobody was told to be in self-isolation, they were all still working at the hospital.

They were only told to self-monitor.

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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #24)


Response to ann--- (Reply #25)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:09 AM

27. I don't understand what you mean by "protected"

 

The HCW working with Duncan continued to care for other patients aside from Duncan. Yes they were (in adequately) garbed when treating him but not when they were working with other patients.

After he died, those same HCW were still working. All of them, including Pham, were working as usual until she came down with Ebola. Only AFTER she came down with it were they placed on leave and told to self monitor only.


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Response to riderinthestorm (Reply #27)


Response to ann--- (Reply #29)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:38 AM

32. They were all self monitoring throughout, all working. Nobody in isolation

 

It wasn't until Pham came down with it were those HCW given leave from work.

So all 75 of those folks, including Amber Vinson were going about their regular lives because they were told to do so by the CDC, while they were treating Duncan AND after he died.

Pham couldn't have self isolated herself - she was still working until she came down with Ebola.

She may have limited her contacts but NOBODY suggested that was necessary. Quite the opposite.

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Response to ann--- (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:22 AM

3. Agree. He Could Have Been In Denial...

...thinking that he was out of the woods given that he had left Guinea back on October 12th. Hung out in Europe for a few days, returned to U.S., then did not develop a fever until this week. He may have been dismissing his lethargy on fatigue. However, I agree, you would think he would know better.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #3)


Response to ann--- (Reply #5)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 08:11 AM

19. Fatigue could have been anything . . .

. . . and he was apparently not so fatigued that he couldn't do a 3-mile jog. Sorry, but it is neither realistic nor fair to expect every health care worker who has contact with an Ebola patient to put his or her life on hold in the absence of clear symptoms, and fatigue was not a clear symptom.

As for riding the subway, consider this: if the immediate family of the man who died in Dallas -- who lived with him for four days in the same apartment while he was fully symptomatic, and were forced to remain in that same apartment for another five days after the man was taken to the hospital -- did not contract the virus (and they have all now passed the 21-day mark), and nor did any other of the identified direct contacts (who likewise have passed the 21-day mark) save for two of the nurses who treated him (who have now recovered), just how likely do you think it is that this doctor would have transmitted the virus merely by riding on the subway? Think about it.

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Response to markpkessinger (Reply #19)


Response to markpkessinger (Reply #19)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:29 AM

31. Stop confusing people with facts.



Very good post, thanks!

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #3)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:33 AM

7. There appears to be some disagreement here on when an Ebola patient actually can

transmit the virus through contact with bodily fluids. The RW is out control with their fear mongering. But as we learn more about the virus it is getting more complicated. I don't think the doctor here was in denial. I think he was following the instructions since he was taking his temp as indicated. And all we know now is that before you are sick you are not contagious. However, his fiancee's voluntary quarantine is probably meant to be super careful. In mid October when he came back we didn't have the follow up information we now have.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #7)


Response to ann--- (Reply #1)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:25 AM

30. With Ebola, if you're not symptomatic,

 

you're NOT contagious. Period.

Do I need to repeat that? Okay, moving on. If you have Ebola, you are most contagious right before and after you die. So there's no reason not to do everything you normally do until the point where you spike a fever, because until then, you're NOT contagious.

If he vomited or pooped on his girlfriend, she's at risk. I sort of doubt that happened, as it appears he notified appropriate people as soon as he spiked the fever. And I'll repeat that it was 100.3, not the 103 incorrectly reported at first.

Proof that it's relatively difficult to get Ebola is that no one who was in the ER the two times Duncan was there have reported symptoms, and we are now past the 21 day point of either of his two ER visits. And in another five days we'll be 21 days past his death. Notice that people are not now streaming into the ER with Ebola. It's not easy to get. It's not airborne.

Heck, the doctor could have gone bowling while very sick, collapsed and died at the bowling alley, and only those who dealt with cleaning up any bodily fluids he left behind would be at risk.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:36 AM

8. You might have corrected your thread rather than start over and pretend

that you didn't call the African continent a country.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025707807

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:48 AM

11. So what?

 

Ebola panic is pathetic.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #11)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 07:59 AM

13. The Idea of A Travel Ban From Africa As A Magical Cure-All...

...is illusory.

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Response to TomCADem (Reply #13)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 08:11 AM

20. Oh it could be rigorously enforced.

 

By the rest of the world. It would devastate the economies of the blockaded regions and cripple their efforts to control the disease.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 08:10 AM

18. Mostly, yes

 

The doctors passport will show entry and exit stamps from the countries he visited, and he would have been asked as well.

Could they be 100% perfect in tacking everybody? No, I have left countries without them stamping my passport. But could simply looking at passports and asking about travel history detect most people coming from those countries? Sure.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 08:52 AM

22. Everyone who flies from the three countries with Ebola

has to fly through Europe. There are no direct flights to the US from any of those countries. Most flights go through Brussels, where passengers change to other flights.

The original departure airport can be tracked back. Airlines keep detailed records of passengers.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:05 AM

26. Ebola scares are soooooo last week.

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Response to TomCADem (Original post)

Fri Oct 24, 2014, 10:10 AM

28. You can't get here from there, at least not directly.

There are no direct flights from the affected countries to the U.S., so you'd have to take a flight to somewhere in Europe, or you could fly from Lagos, Nigeria (where there is no Ebola) directly to ATL. The airlines keep passenger manifests, so there is a record of who went where.
This is the DU member formerly known as The Velveteen Ocelot.

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