Turkish President Declares Lawrence of Arabia a Bigger Enemy than ISIS

[Sancho]

GAZIANTEP, Turkey — Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan took on the iconic Lawrence of Arabia Monday in a furious anti-Western diatribe. The Turkish president compared the outside meddling in the region now to the role the renowned British army officer played during the Arab Revolt against the Ottomans during World War I. And Western diplomats here say the tirade bears a rather striking resemblance to some of the propaganda that has come out of the so-called Islamic State, widely known by the acronym ISIS or ISIL.
---snip-----
The Erdoğan speech was suffused with an angry anti-Western narrative—he also tilted at Western journalists, accusing them of being spies—and will no doubt thrill some of Erdoğan’s supporters. In southern Turkey, some local officials in his Justice and Development Party (AKP) express sympathy for ISIS. But it will ring alarm bells in Western capitals at a time coalition officials are redoubling their efforts to try to persuade a reluctant Turkish government to play a forward-leaning part in the American-led war on the jihadists.

Doesn't look like we are making too many friends in the region...

[hobbit709]

1. Lawrence and the Brits helped set up the current situation in the area today.

[muriel_volestrangler]

4. As the article (see #2) points out, Lawrence was not part of the Sykes-Picot agreement

and he was a supporter of Arab independence from the Ottomans.

[The Magistrate]

30. Which One Suspects Is Where The Animus Originates, Sir

[muriel_volestrangler]

2. Link:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/10/13/turkish-president-declares-lawrence-of-arabia-a-bigger-enemy-than-isis.html

[Sancho]

3. Thanks..sorry I forgot the link

[DetlefK]

5. Erdogan is an autocrat and dislikes media for investigations into his son's corruption.

This might purely be a speech to rouse the masses. It's not necessarily a sign for sympathy with ISIS.

What allies does Turkey have? Let's run down on the neighbouring countries:
* Cyprus: "Here be russian tax-evaders." Otherwise unimportant.
* Bulgaria: Small and unimportant.
* Greece: Long-time enemy.
* Georgia: Small and unimportant.
* Armenia: According to official turkish history-books, the genocide of ethnic Armenians in eastern Turkey never happened. Nope. Absolutely.
* Iraq: If the Kurds get too strong there, the ethnic Kurds in Turkey might make trouble again. Also ISIS.
* Syria: Civil war. Also ISIS.
* Lebanon: Small and unimportant.
* Israel: On bad terms with each other because of Gaza.
* Egypt: No idea, I guess on neutral terms.

Turkey cannot risk alienating the West. Erdogan wants to establish Turkey as a crossroad between Europe and Middle-East and there is practically no country he can use to further Turkey's influence to the east.

[Sancho]

8. Good analysis...

I guess it leaves the US without much help on Syria's Northern boarder or with air bases.

Bulgaria and Greece are Nato members. I really don't know what use they would be in an air war. My view of the whole mess is to get out if we can, but at this point that's unlikely.

[geek tragedy]

14. The Turks figure they can play the west vs Russia/China

They're probably right. Ideologically and culturally, Turkey is better aligned with culturally conservative, authoritarian Eurasian countries than with modern secular democracies that embrace pluralism.

Real question is what happens when work permits in Germany go away.

[DetlefK]

6. I wonder, how Erdogan was able to take back the agreement for the NATO-airbase.

Maybe the agreement was only oral. In any way, it doesn't bode well when somebody takes a promise he just made right back.

[geek tragedy]

12. Same way he can support ISIL and Hamas while a member of NATO

The west is desperate to see Turkey remain aligned with Europe and North America, even if under false pretenses.

[MADem]

18. I wonder how long he'll last. The military isn't without authority when they feel the government

has strayed too far from the fair, as it were. The only question is if they feel that way...!

Attaturk set it up that way, that if the civilian government goes too wobbly, some avuncular general takes over until the country can "get back on track." Hmm.

[geek tragedy]

19. I think those days are over.

Islamists are the majority in the country and the military can't install a dictator like they used to.

The culture war is over there, and the secularists lost.

[MADem]

22. You might be right. Was that bit about stewardship removed from their law, though?

It's not impossible that one brand of "Islamist" in uniform might take issue with the direction of another "Islamist" in mufti...or is it?

I've honestly not kept up--I'm just speculating.

[geek tragedy]

24. Protections for coup plotters was removed.

This is the Turkey we're stuck with.

[MADem]

25. Hmmm. I'm not conversant in Turkish so I've no way to do the google and see if that Ataturk codicil

is still buried in any law anywhere.

Of course, one general advising the nation "in a kindly way" (some snark) that the leadership is going in the wrong direction from the founder Attaturk's wishes could be regarded by some as a patriot and by others as a "coup plotter."

I guess it's not a problem if ya get away with it....? The courts seem to be leaning back towards the Attaturk model, slightly, anyway, with the release of some of those coup plotters this past summer. See:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/06/19/uk-turkey-coup-idUKKBN0EU11720140619

[malaise]

7. He was correct

Read history objectively.

[cali]

10. If only history was as simple as you seem to believe.

[Javaman]

9. excuse me if I'm wrong but...

Turkey today wouldn't be around if L of A didn't help.

[geek tragedy]

11. Erdrogan is ISIL in a business suit.

Amazing--that country was once considered for EU membership. Pretty soon they'll be calling themselves a caliphate.

[Renew Deal]

13. I agree

It's disturbing that he doesn't represent a large portion of his population. The Kurds are part of a Turkey. He could be inclusive, but this guy has always been an authoritarian.

[MADem]

23. The Kurds have always been unloved in Turkey, this I know for true.

Kurds in the military do much better if their looks are not overtly Kurdish and they do not have a Kurdish name. They were terribly discriminated against in the past, and I don't know if those days are over, either.

[Spider Jerusalem]

15. Tsk. Sounds like he's still bitter about Turkey losing their empire...which would've happened anyway

[LibertyLover]

16. Lawrence was

blind-sided by the Sykes-Picot treaty, finding out about it after the fact. He did as much as he could during the peace negotiations in Paris to make England, and to a lesser degree France, abide by their promises to the Arabs. But for all that, Lawrence didn't want to see Turkey destroyed either. At the end of the Versailles Conference, Lawrence was a broken man, physically and emotionally. He drifted for a number of years, eventually changed his last name to Ross and enlisted, first in the Army - Royal Tank Battalion if memory serves, and latter in the RAF. It was partially thanks to his testing motor boats for the RAF at Plymouth in the early '30s that many pilots who ditched in the Channel, especially during the Battle of Britain, were rescued and returned to duty.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

17. He's the Hugo Chavez of the Dardenelles. nt

[Rex]

20. If there was any goodwill in that area, Bush and Cheney pissed it all away.

The damage done by the Dubya Era will be felt for decades to come. We have the backing of the entire world after 9/11...all to be PISSED AWAY with an illegal invasion into Iraq and the trampling of sovereignty with our wondrous drone wars.

Bush and Cheney created decades of terrorists with their atrocities in Iraq...which is par the course for PNAC.

Need to always have an enemy? We do now thanks to Dickhead and Shit stain.

Their one big favor to the MIC and private contractors.

[LeftinOH]

21. Translation: Historical grievances are more important than

current crises. As always, we can expect Turkey to remain disengaged from regional problems ..on any level.

[Comrade Grumpy]

26. NATO member Turkey seems more aligned with ISIS than against it.

Erdogan has a real obsession with overthrowing the government of his neighbor. That's what seems to be driving his obstructionism regarding the struggle in northeastern Syria. He wants us to go in and overthrow Assad for him. My question for him and all the others calling for the overthrow of Assad is what comes after that?

[geek tragedy]

29. Ottoman Empire v2.0 nt

[whatchamacallit]

27. This thread contains some of dumbest comments I've ever read

Apparently anyone who doesn't buy our boogyman propaganda must be ISIS.

[TheKentuckian]

28. Cut em loose and certainly cease trying to desperately hold on to them.

Dealing with them as a fake ally just complicates the instability matrix in the region.

[Cleita]

31. Lawrence is long dead. Maybe he should direct his

diatribe to the present day Brits in charge. It might make more sense in context.