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Mon Oct 13, 2014, 09:42 AM

The USA is actually pretty bad at the war stuff..and we have been for a long time

If you want to be really fair about it, the only real "victory" we had was WWII, and we joined in that one pretty late, and had lots of help.

Ever since "the big one", we have pretty much sucked.

Korea was a "tie", at best

The Bay of Pigs invasion was a flop

Our overthrow/coup in Iran has yielded nothing more than disaster for decades, and turned a country that was pretty modern into a religious nightmare

Viet Nam was a horror

Our meddling in Afghanistan (the 1980s) is still biting us in the ass

The Central American fiasco all during the 80's was no success, and made lots of enemies for us

Grenada was nothing more than a pretend war for Ronnie's benefit

Kuwait "rescue" was quite possibly more hype than anything else, done to prove that GHWB was not as wimpy as the media portrayed him

Afghanistan Pt 2 & Iraq have been flops as well

Our wars succeed in making lots of money for contractors/munitions makers & lobbyists, and in killing & maiming people (ours and theirs)

The outcomes after the wars are always rife with instability, civil wars (that our actions only postponed), destroyed cities/infrastructure/schools/hospitals/etc.

We spare no expense in "training" our allies' soldiers so they can continue the fight when we leave, but what we find out now, is that when they are asked to actually fight, they often do not want to risk their own lives. They like the income they are paid when they are training, and they march and they ride in the vehicles we give them, but they do not want to fight.

We should start considering just buying them off .. Send in corps of engineers guys and money & tools, and shower them with those things. Help them build up their country better than the ones there we don't like all that much. Let them run their own country, and if they turn out to not be to our liking, just cut them off and let them duke it out.

We are meddlers with money, and no one likes a meddler.




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Reply The USA is actually pretty bad at the war stuff..and we have been for a long time (Original post)
SoCalDem Oct 2014 OP
former9thward Oct 2014 #1
chrisa Oct 2014 #2
KingCharlemagne Oct 2014 #3
SoCalDem Oct 2014 #6
hunter Oct 2014 #4
raouldukelives Oct 2014 #5
gordianot Oct 2014 #7

Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 09:50 AM

1. All true but the MIC has a stranglehold on our economy.

If we tried to cut our Defense budget to something reasonable, like 50% of what it is, there would be millions laid off and it would trigger a massive recession. I am in favor of that because short term paid would lead to long term health.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 09:51 AM

2. Agreed. We're even worse at playing 'policeman.'

Being the police for third world countries is a horrible misuse of our military. We're literally using bombs that cost millions of dollars to kill one guy sitting in a tent. It makes no sense, when those resources could have been devoted to the FBI instead to stop domestic threats.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 10:07 AM

3. May be pedantry on my part, but we also were on the

 

'winning' side (and the side of 'right,' I believe) in World War I.

Not sure how far back you were casting your net.

We have a pretty sorry track record, though, when it comes to picking sides in other countries' internal civil wars, that's for sure.

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Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #3)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 10:25 AM

6. I started with WWII

our "glory days"

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 10:13 AM

4. Corrupt losers.

And it's not for want of brave soldiers on the ground, it's because of rotten government at the top, the shit congresspeople, the shit military industrial complex, the propagandists, the shits like George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and Donald Rumsfeld, who turn war into profits for themselves and kill and maim and twist hungry young people worldwide because we are owned by wealthy fucks and violent religious fundamentalists and nationalists who see smoldering wars throughout the world as an opportunity to increase their own wealth and power.




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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 10:19 AM

5. Depends on what "victory" means. I suspect our idea of it differs from the corporate agenda.

As you so succinctly put it.
"Our wars succeed in making lots of money for contractors/munitions makers & lobbyists, and in killing & maiming people (ours and theirs)"
As long as they and the market profit, as long as people can get paid good money to fabricate munitions to drop on civilians, as long as people make good money and earn college tuition to drop those munitions. They would consider that mission accomplished.

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Response to SoCalDem (Original post)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 10:56 AM

7. It is use of war for political aims that is out of alignment.

The quality of American soldiers has been good and in the last 20 years has been excellent. Unfortunately the military has been used too often in actions without planning for political expedience. American soldiers in Korea were superb outnumbered they withstood overwhelming numbers. Harry Truman user of nuclear weapons decided not to plunge the world into a nightmare. Even the reluctant soldiers of Vietnam performed well in a war that should never have happened. Ho Chi Minh wanted American occupation after World War II with similar status as the Philippines but Vietnam was returned to France as a colony. (After WWII there is a movie of Uncle Ho waving an American flag). First Gulf War American ally Saddam Hussein was allowed to think it was Ok for Iraq to invade the Gulf States this was a war of subterfuge rivaling the Spanish American War. Bush I top spook as President got a really big chessboard to play with. After 8 years of prosperity under Clinton building up the military the idiot son of Bush I was handed a new job (like Oil Companies and Texas Rangers) to fuck up. Bush the lesser did a superb job single handedly destroying American credibility for all time. American soldiers are not to blame it is their leaders. From now on Politicians will attempt to ( such as Obama) cleaning up and undoing the job done by Bush II and the real job America sucks at; intelligence and using intellect.

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