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Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:29 AM

People vote when they have something/someone to vote FOR.

The fact is that the vast majority of people are not political/policy wonks like we at DU are. It's simple, if they don't feel that their needs are being met, if they don't feel like they're being represented by EITHER party, they'll simply stay home. Whine and wail and render your garments all you want about it but the FACT is that if you don't give people someone to vote FOR (He's/She's not as bad as the other guy/gal doesn't work anymore), they're far more likely not to show up.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about. Locally, there's no Senate seat up and it's not a presidential election year. We did have a couple of Congressional seats that COULD have changed from R to D given the right set of circumstance (the DCCC did not send ONE CENT to either candidate) but since Obama delayed immigration reform the Latinos (majority of the population) in my area are LIVID and several have told me they're staying home because of it. The result is that both seats will remain in R hands.

And before I'm accused of it by the Party Faithful, let me be clear: NO, I AM NOT ADVOCATING PEOPLE STAY HOME ON ELECTION DAY. I just choose not to berate people because they don't feel like anyone represents them. All berating does is cause people to entrench themselves deeper in their beliefs. When promises are made and then not kept, time after time after time, it's not difficult to see why so many are saying they don't feel like their voices are being heard even when they make the "right" choice (voting for Ds).

The remedy is not to berate people but to put up candidates for whom people will get excited -- candidates that they feel will represent them and their interests and WHO KEEP THEIR PROMISES. Do this and people will show up to donate, work for the campaign and get out the vote. Continue to deny, delay and make excuses for why reforms have not even BEGUN to be enacted and you'll get what you have now which is massive voter apathy.

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Reply People vote when they have something/someone to vote FOR. (Original post)
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 OP
yeoman6987 Oct 2014 #1
Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #25
merrily Oct 2014 #116
JaneyVee Oct 2014 #2
hobbit709 Oct 2014 #4
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #6
winter is coming Oct 2014 #69
Teamster Jeff Oct 2014 #83
certainot Oct 2014 #81
merrily Oct 2014 #120
Enthusiast Oct 2014 #170
ffr Oct 2014 #148
Scuba Oct 2014 #3
hobbit709 Oct 2014 #5
a kennedy Oct 2014 #16
JoePhilly Oct 2014 #26
treestar Oct 2014 #117
Caretha Oct 2014 #159
JoePhilly Oct 2014 #181
treestar Oct 2014 #37
emulatorloo Oct 2014 #48
certainot Oct 2014 #84
leftstreet Oct 2014 #94
MisterP Oct 2014 #134
Enthusiast Oct 2014 #171
Fuddnik Oct 2014 #7
treestar Oct 2014 #39
Bjorn Against Oct 2014 #47
treestar Oct 2014 #50
merrily Oct 2014 #127
malokvale77 Oct 2014 #132
Dr Hobbitstein Oct 2014 #61
treestar Oct 2014 #115
Fuddnik Oct 2014 #150
MannyGoldstein Oct 2014 #8
abelenkpe Oct 2014 #9
marble falls Oct 2014 #10
Fuddnik Oct 2014 #12
marble falls Oct 2014 #17
Fuddnik Oct 2014 #21
Dr Hobbitstein Oct 2014 #62
Fuddnik Oct 2014 #151
SidDithers Oct 2014 #11
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #22
SidDithers Oct 2014 #36
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #40
certainot Oct 2014 #113
rhett o rick Oct 2014 #149
JHB Oct 2014 #13
hobbit709 Oct 2014 #15
JHB Oct 2014 #34
hobbit709 Oct 2014 #98
Egnever Oct 2014 #130
treestar Oct 2014 #35
99Forever Oct 2014 #14
Enthusiast Oct 2014 #172
cantbeserious Oct 2014 #18
Mister Nightowl Oct 2014 #19
Lee-Lee Oct 2014 #20
MH1 Oct 2014 #23
Gore1FL Oct 2014 #24
Blue_Tires Oct 2014 #73
MH1 Oct 2014 #27
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #30
totodeinhere Oct 2014 #54
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #63
Enthusiast Oct 2014 #173
treestar Oct 2014 #33
JoePhilly Oct 2014 #28
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #32
JoePhilly Oct 2014 #56
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #71
JoePhilly Oct 2014 #79
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #88
JoePhilly Oct 2014 #92
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #99
Dr Hobbitstein Oct 2014 #67
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #76
Dr Hobbitstein Oct 2014 #89
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #96
merrily Oct 2014 #122
Dr Hobbitstein Oct 2014 #177
merrily Oct 2014 #178
Enthusiast Oct 2014 #174
yodermon Oct 2014 #162
JoePhilly Oct 2014 #179
jwirr Oct 2014 #29
treestar Oct 2014 #31
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #38
treestar Oct 2014 #41
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #43
NorthCarolina Oct 2014 #65
totodeinhere Oct 2014 #55
yodermon Oct 2014 #163
Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #42
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #46
Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #58
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #68
Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #82
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #90
Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #128
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #131
certainot Oct 2014 #123
treestar Oct 2014 #49
Thinkingabout Oct 2014 #64
Smarmie Doofus Oct 2014 #44
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #53
eridani Oct 2014 #154
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #156
eridani Oct 2014 #158
adirondacker Oct 2014 #80
Smarmie Doofus Oct 2014 #106
LineLineLineLineReply !
adirondacker Oct 2014 #119
Warpy Oct 2014 #45
VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #51
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #57
VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #59
Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #74
VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #77
Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #87
VanillaRhapsody Oct 2014 #95
Name removed Oct 2014 #52
marym625 Oct 2014 #60
BeyondGeography Oct 2014 #66
tularetom Oct 2014 #70
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #85
certainot Oct 2014 #72
LineReply .
stonecutter357 Oct 2014 #75
randome Oct 2014 #78
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #91
randome Oct 2014 #101
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #104
randome Oct 2014 #108
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #110
Marr Oct 2014 #112
marmar Oct 2014 #86
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #93
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #97
Post removed Oct 2014 #100
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #105
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #109
99Forever Oct 2014 #118
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #124
99Forever Oct 2014 #125
certainot Oct 2014 #126
blm Oct 2014 #102
certainot Oct 2014 #129
blm Oct 2014 #184
merrily Oct 2014 #103
LadyHawkAZ Oct 2014 #107
JTFrog Oct 2014 #111
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #114
revmclaren Oct 2014 #164
liberal_at_heart Oct 2014 #121
alp227 Oct 2014 #133
Fumesucker Oct 2014 #135
Rex Oct 2014 #136
Enthusiast Oct 2014 #175
Chathamization Oct 2014 #137
Fumesucker Oct 2014 #140
Chathamization Oct 2014 #142
Fumesucker Oct 2014 #144
Chathamization Oct 2014 #146
blkmusclmachine Oct 2014 #138
valerief Oct 2014 #139
L0oniX Oct 2014 #153
joanbarnes Oct 2014 #141
cynzke Oct 2014 #143
CakeGrrl Oct 2014 #145
WillyT Oct 2014 #147
DrBulldog Oct 2014 #152
JohnnyRingo Oct 2014 #155
randome Oct 2014 #176
JI7 Oct 2014 #157
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #161
Fumesucker Oct 2014 #182
Number23 Oct 2014 #185
1StrongBlackMan Oct 2014 #160
NuttyFluffers Oct 2014 #165
Tweedy Oct 2014 #166
Le Taz Hot Oct 2014 #167
Tweedy Oct 2014 #183
Shankapotomus Oct 2014 #168
IronLionZion Oct 2014 #169
Shankapotomus Oct 2014 #180

Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:34 AM

1. I agree! Voters went to the polls in 2008 and 2012

 

Because President Obama gave us someone and something to vote for. 2010, the President was not on the ballot so some said home. 2014 with the Senate up for grab. Hopefully we will see voters out in droves.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:45 AM

25. Some States had good turnout and Democratic wins in 2010. Why?

 

Good candidates, good propositions, easy access to voting. It is not rocket science.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:02 PM

116. Turn out is always better for Presidential than for midterms.

Also, in 2008 a lot people were indeed voting for change, IOW, against Bush, even though he was not running, and Obama tried to embody change.

Lots of factors affect every election.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:40 AM

2. Isn't the reason some promises aren't kept because...

 

Republicans have record obstruction? The solution isn't sitting out, it's voting against Republicans.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:46 AM

4. Cart before the horse.

Republicans got elected to obstruct because the voters weren't given a clear cut choice.
When the choice is R or R-lite a lot of people say why bother.

I've voted in every election since I turned 21( the same year the age was lowered to 18).
And there has been more than one election where I had to hold my nose and carry a barf bag because of the "alleged" D running.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:53 AM

6. Sometimes. But too often

there was nobody there to even TRY. Why? Because they're afraid of what the Republicans might do which means that they put more importance on the desires of the right wing than they do their constituency. If you have any questions a mere gander at the vast majority of laws that have been enacted in the last 30 years will tell you all you need to know. If I were to list all the pieces of legislation and policies, you'll find that 98% have been FOR the .001% and only a handful have been for the middle class and working class.

People don't have to be policy wonks to know that they've been royally screwed for the last 30 years and that virtually NO ONE is stepping up to represent them. Come election time, to often voters have the "choice" between Corporate Shill A (D) and Corporate Shill B (R), knowing that neither party represents them. What is amazing is that so many people on this board blame the VOTERS for being apathetic. Apathy is the result, not the cause.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:03 AM

69. Very few politicians are even willing to say people have been getting royally screwed.

Given that, is it any wonder people feel politicians aren't representing their interests? Hell, they're not even acknowledging they exist.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:31 AM

83. Exactly! And now ConservaDems are nervous

"But, but Republicans........!"

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:24 AM

81. and voting FOR minimum wage and health care and media, election, and campaign finance reform

those are objectives the democratic party has been working for, while the republicans have been working to stop them.

it's lazy and naive for liberals to think those things are going to fall in their lap if they don't vote.

so they say, well, the democrats aren't getting it done, and they blame their reps and everything else they can while they let 1000 well coordinated radio stations scream all day for 25 years:

YOUR SISTER'S A WHORE, YOUR BROTHER'S A LAZY THIEF, AND YOUR IDEAS ARE TREASONOUS!!!

non voters suck

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:06 PM

120. I agree on that the solution is not sitting it out, but I am not sure what the solution is.

I think we need some fundamental changes in the system, from campaign finance to elimination of super majority rules in the Senate (yes, I get the risk), but they require constitutional amendments.

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Response to merrily (Reply #120)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 08:40 AM

170. In non-election years D candidates that have been disappointing

should receive unrelenting criticism from Democratic Voters.

If they betray our interests but hardly hear a peep, just because they're Democrats, we shouldn't expect to see an improvement.

Democratic voters should be united on this TPP thing and the net neutrality issue. Our candidates and office holders should have a ringing in their ears.

Lip service by office holders will not get it. If this net neutrality thing goes the wrong way it is up to Democrats to voice their disapproval to the President for making BAD appointments, appointments against the interests of the American consumer and party loyalists.

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Response to JaneyVee (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 04:20 PM

148. +1 Doesn't matter the candidate. It only matters we unseat Republis

any and all of them.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:44 AM

3. It's up to candidates to inspire voters to turn out. Blaming the voters is simply scapegoating.

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:46 AM

5. +1000

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:20 AM

16. ditto

+1000

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:47 AM

26. Then why walk your neighborhood canvessing?

If its all up to the candidate, why do we even talk about GOTV efforts?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:03 PM

117. +1

You've highlighted the fallacy. It sounds fine for a second, then when you think about it, it's totally illogical. Lends itself to the idea we are looking for leaders to make us do things out of emotion rather than participate in the process of self-government. They are making the voters into helpless victims who can't take any responsibility - someone has to be charismatic enough to make them do their basic civic duty.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:54 PM

159. You have to inspire

 

the walkers & the talkers too you know. You need the grannies who pay attention and say...son - grandson (daughter) go vote for this guy.

The voter is like the interviewer. The politician/candidate is ...well like the job seeker, get it? Go sell yourself & your ideals...how are you going to help me, not you! The job is to represent the people and in order to get someone to vote for you, the politician has to do the WORK (I know..old concept) to convince voters they will at least try.

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Response to Caretha (Reply #159)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 09:52 AM

181. Wouldn't you think this board would be filled with walkers and talkers?

Yet oddly, it doesn't sound like it.

1 month before the elections. And the focus is on finding new and better candidates?

Seems a little late for that.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:06 AM

37. the part about "We the People"

seems to have escaped you. You'd rather it was "We the inspiring leaders and our sheep" since presumably a leader you admire can get others to follow.

No thanks. We have a government of the people, etc. and we'll keep it. Not looking for anyone so "inspiring" they can overrun the powers of the office they get elected to.

They are there to represent a large group of people, known as a constituency. They can't meet the needs of individuals specifically nor should they.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:31 AM

48. Or you could GOTV and cut thru the media that hides what Dems stand for.

Media works to "mainstream" extremist Rs, and hides what Dem candidate stands for.

GOTV door knocking cuts thru that media bullshit and helps voters understand what is really at stake

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:34 AM

84. but the left has allowed a political atmosphere where many 'inspirational' politicians don't

want to participate

the 'left' cannot say it is getting its candidates' backs as long as it allows 1200 radio stations to take free pot shots at them all day

they've got carnival barkers on every corner and stump in the country screaming bullshit about liberals and their issues and candidates and the left sticks their buds in their ears and bop on by.

waiting for good candidates and progress in that environment is naive/unfair

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:04 PM

94. +1

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:30 PM

134. and it's worse when they internalize it

you never think Battered Voter Syndrome can happen in your own party--until it does
(and it's not like "blame the voters" is a *winning* party's strategy)

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Response to Scuba (Reply #3)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 08:42 AM

171. Precisely.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:55 AM

7. I don't even have a congressional candidate to vote for.

And, if I did the party wouldn't support them anyway, or even worse, if they were progressive, they would actively undermine them.

I've already voted. Just another lesser of two evils vote. Even a recycled Republican, like "Chain Gang Charlie" Crist is better than the evil that is Rick Scott. But, not enough to inspire droves of people to turn out.

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:08 AM

39. How can that be?

The Democrats don't even have a candidate running? I can't believe that would happen for the federal Congress.

I do have that in the case of my state legislative district, so I'll vote Green, since they happen to have put someone on the ballot. In previous years, I did a write-in.

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Response to treestar (Reply #39)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:29 AM

47. It happens more often than you might think

In 2012 there was no Democrat who filed to run against John Boehner so he won his election unopposed, Joe Wilson was also unopposed. Those are two of the worst members of Congress yet we did not even have a candidate to run against them.

http://www.dfmpolitics.com/2012/09/ten-members-of-congress-who-are-unopposed/

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #47)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:35 AM

50. Geez

Though I hope their are urban districts where the opposite occurs.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #47)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:18 PM

127. Democrats don't run anyone against Sanders, but that's a good thing, IMO.

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Response to Bjorn Against (Reply #47)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:06 PM

132. Who's running against Jeb Hensarling?

I can't seem to find an opposing candidate.

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Response to treestar (Reply #39)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:51 AM

61. He's referring to Florida.

 

There is a Democrat running: Charlie Crist. He's a former Republican moderate who became a Dem after working with John Morgan, our state's biggest Dem donator.

Some people are opposed to Crist because he was a Republican, but as said before, he was moderate. He blocked a lot of extreme legislation in FL.

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #61)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:00 PM

115. Thanks for that info; I recall when DU was allowed to support Crist

though he was not a Democrat at the time, because he could beat the Republican - so now he's become a Democrat, though moderate, which is a big sin around DU. But better than Republicans. We may like to have someone to vote FOR, but in some circumstances, we have no choice to to vote AGAINST. Against Republicans, where they would otherwise win. IMO it's a pipe dream that people who would vote Republican or moderate would change their minds and vote for a Democrat if the Dem was only more liberal.

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #61)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 04:47 PM

150. Actually, Crist was the better candidate than the "New Democrat" who ran against him in 2006.

Unfortunately, as a member of my DEC, I was obligated to support asshole Jim Davis in the race.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:57 AM

8. +mc^2

 

The alpha and the omega.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:01 AM

9. K&R

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:01 AM

10. This election is as imprtant as 2016. We had better get as good as a Congress for the President....

as we can.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #10)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:12 AM

12. If God had intended for us to vote, he would have given us candidates.

I don't have any.

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:23 AM

17. I'm in the Texas Hill country, with an abysmal Sen Cornyn and a Teabilly Rep, Williams ....

I only have local candidate with only one or two viable Dems/Ind candidates with any sort of chance. I will be voting early, like I do every election.

I will at least be voting to narrow the gap and to write in "none of the above" in unchallenged GOP races. We had a primary race here where we ended up with a LaRouchie Democrat to run against Williams. That one will be a "none of the above."

Not voting isn't a smart option. Thats what the Teapublicans want more than ever and yu need to send a message and "none of the above" is a way to do it.

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Response to marble falls (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:37 AM

21. None of the above doesn't count in Florida.

In fact, neither does a write-in, unless they have previously filed to run as write-in at qualifying in APRIL. Otherwise the ballot is tossed.

I guess Mickey Mouse won too many elections down here. The shame is. he was probably the best candidate.

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Response to Fuddnik (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:54 AM

62. I just early voted in FL.

 

I had no problem voting a straight Dem ticket. There were Dem candidates in EVERY category. All of which ran on platforms that I, as a Democrat, agreed with.

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #62)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 04:48 PM

151. I dropped off my absentees the other day too.

All Dems.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:06 AM

11. So find something to vote for...nt

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #11)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:40 AM

22. Offer up someone/something to for for . . . nt

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #22)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:05 AM

36. Do your own homework...

Are you seriously suggesting that there's nothing that your Democratic candidate stands for, that you wouldn't also support?

Sid

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Response to SidDithers (Reply #36)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:09 AM

40. You need to quit making this about me

and focus on the issue which is why there's so much voter apathy and what to do about it.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #40)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:57 PM

113. there's always voter apathy and lazy voters and too busy voters and too-'principled' voters

the feeling that a vote doesn't count is directly related to the lack of progress.

the left has been getting its ass kicked for 25 years because they let a bunch of think tank scripted radio carnival barkers scream over them and turn the voice of the 1% + the 10% of racists and psychos into what looks like 50%.

the 1% and their 1200 radio stations are short circuiting the feedback mechanisms a democracy needs to function.

that factor has been completely ignored by the left. considering the time lost on global warming it's the biggest mistake in political history.

any answer to your question that doesn't include that factor is not going anywhere- anything we try just gets yelled over (see OWS). you'll just have to wait for things to get so bad we're all camping in the street. then the loudest voices will still be coming from those same radio stations.

the left won't get any major reforms until they get serious about the fucking radio.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #40)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 04:29 PM

149. Apparently the cure for voter apathy is, "find something to vote for." Apparently missed the

 

point of the OP. Some people think that voting is all there is to keeping democracy. You must have candidates and fair vote counting.

In some countries they would just run H. Clinton with no opposition. We are so much better here that our oligarchs will run a clown against H. Clinton so some will feel they are participating in democracy.

I've spoken to some people that don't vote. Basically they respond that they don't think their participation in the process has any influence on the government. Funny how a Princeton study recently confirmed just that.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:16 AM

13. When I am completely unable to budge someone like that...

...I ask them if they represent their view (and, duh, of course they do). I suggest they go to the polls and vote for themselves as a write-in candidate. You'll lose, but your vote is there to be counted. If you sit home, nobody in politics will care, you just make their job easier. But imagine a race where the vote is 25% for one guy, 24% for a second guy, and 51% "other". THAT would get attention.

I've never met the handful of people I've told that to again (or if I have, didn't remember them), so I have no idea of what they actually did. But when I left them I had them thinking.

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Response to JHB (Reply #13)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:19 AM

15. If "None of the above" was on the ballot, I'd bet there'd be a lot of elections where he would win.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:03 AM

34. Probably, but how would that help any?

"None of the above" can't fill the office that's up for election. Somebody has to be elected. One of the points of the "vote for yourself, if you just can't vote for anyone else" argument. No write-ins for Donald Duck, it has to be for a real person who can hold the office. Engage in the process every election, not just the "big ticket" ones. Passivity is not protest.

Besides, there are usually more races involved than the ones being protested. You're mad at congress so you're not going to vote for your county board?

But again, this is the argument of last resort, for those who you just can't get to budge.

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Response to JHB (Reply #34)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:16 PM

98. And if it happened enough times maybe TPTB might notice the dissatisfaction.

Even at the local level.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:26 PM

130. None of the above wins!

 

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Response to JHB (Reply #13)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:04 AM

35. And that helps illustrate to them how

politics is about coalitions and working together, not about "me."

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:18 AM

14. Perfectly stated.

But the usual finger-pointing fools still won't get it. Their "shut up and eat your gruel" attitude is ALL they have. And because of that, the Democrats will likely take a heavy beatdown. They never learn.

It's now too late for the one thing that could have changed that dynamic, an actual concerted effort to fight for Democratic policies and principles, instead we got warmed over Republican Lite shit and capitulation.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #14)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 08:46 AM

172. Peas

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:23 AM

18. Agree Completely Sadly The American Political System Has Grown Sclerotic

eom

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:30 AM

19. Yes

 

But, most of the time, one is choosing the lesser of two evils.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:34 AM

20. That is what we face in NC

 

I'm not very excited at Hagan, and my vote is against Tillis. She really hasn't done anything in her first term to be very excited about aside from supporting the ACA- but she is mostly hiding from that vote here.

All her ads are not about what she has done or will do- they are about what Tillis has done or will do.

She isn't running a campaign that gives anyone something to vote FOR- just doing her best to stir up votes against Tillis. Heck, she runs ads about school funding so much it's almost like she is running for School Board, not Senate. But none of the ads ever have an idea from her saying "I will do this to fix it."

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:41 AM

23. I disagree (at least in some circumstances). Look at PA Gov this year.

The republican governor Corbett has been such a disaster for this state in so many ways, yes there are people who will come vote just to get rid of his sorry ass.

It does help that we have a credible Dem candidate running against him, who is capable of putting up a serious campaign with good ads. But I'll wager that most voters do not have a detailed understanding of his positions and don't even really care - the important thing is he's not Corbett, and he seems reasonable. Now, if our candidate were like "the rent is too damn high" guy or maybe even a Kucinich, THEN it might not work. People who are not wonks want someone safe, even if they're mostly voting against the other guy. But no, they don't necessarily stay home because there's no one on the ballot that "speaks to them" on issues they care the most about.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:45 AM

24. If you don't vote. Don't complain.

Decisions are made by the people that show up. That should be incentive enough.

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Response to Gore1FL (Reply #24)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:13 AM

73. +1000

having "something/someone to vote FOR." Treads dangerously close to I only vote when a perfect, ideal candidate for me is running...

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:48 AM

27. So, the Latinos you reference think that R control of the House HELPS immigration reform?

I really don't get their logic. (This guy didn't do what we want, so we're going to show him! We'll vote for the guys that will hurt us!!)

Is voting a big logistical thing for folks in that area? Polling places far apart, really long lines, trouble voting and making it to work on time at a job where someone could get fired? I know that happens in some places and for some people's job situation. But if it isn't a big deal, then not bothering to vote is rather selfish and lazy. Yeah, you're wasting your breath to berate someone for it, but maybe emphasizing the positives of voting would help overcome the tendency toward laziness.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #27)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:58 AM

30. No, from my conversations they don't think either party

represents them. Polling places aren't an issue, lines aren't an issue and language is not an issue because you can get voter pamphlets and/or ballots in virtually every language. The problem stems from promises that have been made for decades now, and never realized AND the fact the Obama (D) has stepped up deportations that are hitting people in their own families. This is an issue that hits as close to home as it gets. To make matters 10 times worse, he delayed immigration reform because he was afraid he'd piss off too many bigots in red states. He listens to the bigots and not the people who's families are being deported. They're not voting for R's, they're not voting at all because they've no one to vote FOR. If Obama had, just once, gone to the mat for THE PEOPLE, we wouldn't be in this predicament, but he didn't and here we are.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #30)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:38 AM

54. It's a political balancing act. As you know, control of the Senate hinges on a few

Democratic incumbents keeping their seats in deeply red states. He and his political advisers concluded that keeping the Senate was important enough that taking a risk on delaying executive action on immigration reform was a risk well worth taking. Maybe they made the wrong political calculation, and especially if we lose the Senate anyway there will be a lot of second guessing of that political decision. But those are the games that are played in Washington.

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Response to totodeinhere (Reply #54)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:54 AM

63. I just think if we had more candidates

that would stand up and challenge the status quo, which benefits the 1%, voter apathy would disappear. We have a very few Senators, Warren and Sanders come to mind, who are firebrands. They stand up for what they believe in. These individuals are wildly popular (especially Warren). These people have ratings for which most politicians would sacrifice a body part. Now, imagine a whole nation of candidates that held that kind of inspiration. Any losses in the southern states would be balanced out by gains in the rest of the country and we wouldn't have to worry about appeasing some bigoted redneck in the south in order to "win." The only people who "win" in elections like that are the 1% and most of us aren't part of that party.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #63)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 08:49 AM

173. +1 You nailed it.

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Response to MH1 (Reply #27)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:03 AM

33. constructive thoughts

These OPs at this time are disgusting. They are really trying to discourage us.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:51 AM

28. So should we engage GOTV efforts or not?

Should we (the wonks) be working to get out the vote even if the candidate is not perfect, or should we do nothing but complain, especially to the folks who aren't wonks.

Which message should we amplify as an election approaches?

My sense is the left on DU would prefer to amplify a message of ... "The Democrats SUCK" ... as we approach the election.

Think that will help, or hurt?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #28)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:03 AM

32. "The Left" doesn't need to tell them "The Democrats SUCK,"

they're smart enough to have figured out that NEITHER political party represents their interests. They're staring down the barrel of deportation -- in record numbers under Obama. You'll have to pardon Latinos if they can't seem to locate their blue pompoms.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #32)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:40 AM

56. You did not answer my question. Should we canvass?

And clearly the left on DU feels the need to tell them that "the Dems suck" ... its all they talk about.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #56)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:05 AM

71. I don't know who "we" is but what you do

is none of my business. And making all/nothing statements challenges your credibility. The Left isn't of one mind/opinion and they post on a myriad of issues, one of which might be that the Third Way Democrats aren't representing We the People as they should be.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #71)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:23 AM

79. That's a weak dodge.

Let's make this concrete.

I live in NC. Should I (a) be encouraging fellow Democrats to get out and vote for Jay Hagen (evil Third Way Dem), or (b) telling them it really doesn't matter if she loses and Tom Tillis (R-crazyland) wins that NC Senate seat?

Well?

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #79)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:44 AM

88. I already answered that

when I said what you do is none of my business. The ISSUE is how to motivate voters to vote. I suggested that getting better candidates is the key. The Party Faithful continues with the same old, tired pitch: "Vote for me because I'm not as bad as the Republican." At some point I would hope that you would learn that that doesn't work anymore. It's getting to critical mass here and more and more people are rejecting that non-choice. Maybe it's time to just simply offer up better candidates.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #88)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:57 AM

92. There isn't time to get a better candidate right now.

Kay is THE candidate that will run next month.

Do I support her and strongly encourage others to do the same, or do I complain that she's not liberal enough?

Which of those paths would you suggest?

Your OP already answers the question that you now run from when asked directly.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #92)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:17 PM

99. I'm not here to tell you which path to take.

I'm not sure I understand why you think I would.

They've had YEARS to get better candidates yet all they offer up is the same old milquetoast corporate cronies and then call people "idiots" and "morons" when people don't vote for them or worse, stay home.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #32)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:58 AM

67. Then why post on DU if Democratic values do not represent your interests? n/t

 

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #67)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:13 AM

76. Democratic Values.

What are those?

Well, if you're Third Way, clean coal, the TPP treaty (being negotiated in secret), record numbers of deportations, the XL Pipeline, fracking, banksters going free and a record number of pot dispensaries busted, just to name a few, are your values.

If you're an FDR Democrat you believe in saving the environment, you don't support trickle down theories, you hold the 1% accountable for wrongdoing, you support cannabis legalization, you care about undocumented workers, who live here and pay taxes, being able to live without the threat of deportation, you care about clean water, you care about what chemicals are sprayed on their broccoli, etc., then those are your values.

Which type of Democrat do you think inspires the rank and file more, the ones who don't care about the needs/wants of the 99% or the ones who do?

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #76)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:45 AM

89. FDR believed in locking up Japanese-Americans in internment camps...

 

At least Obama attempted to shut down Gitmo.

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #89)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:12 PM

96. And he was wrong to do that.

He also, in the face of an economic depression didn't spend billions on bailing out the banks but started the "alphabet soup." Yes, the USSC threw most of it out but it did put people back to work for a time and it gave them hope. It improved their roads and put indoor plumbing and electricity in their houses. Those programs benefited the people AND the corporations (via government contracts).

Interesting that you focus on the one thing you could use to bash FDR with and ignored everything else he accomplished and didn't focus on the sub-topic to which you responded which was, "Which Democrats?"

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #89)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:08 PM

122. Yes that was heinous, but it does not cancel out that he saved the country as it was circling the

drain and gave us Social Security.

Yes, Obama tried to close Gitmo, or so it seemed to onlookers, but he sure has his faults, too. For example, he continued extraordinary rendition and outdid Bush 6 times over on drone killings. No President is perfect, but Democrats throwing FDR under the bus in an attempt to make Obama look better is not useful.

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Response to merrily (Reply #122)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 09:40 AM

177. I'm not throwing FDR under the bus...

 

I'm showing that FDR did his fair share of fucked up things. I think Obama has been a pretty damned good president. Washing over FDR's faults to make Obama look bad is not useful, either.

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Response to Dr Hobbitstein (Reply #177)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 09:42 AM

178. FDR is considered the third best President of any party, after Washington and Lincoln.

And he is a Democrat. In its desperation, though, DU throws him under the bus quite often.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #76)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 08:52 AM

174. PLUS ONE, a whole bunch!

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #28)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:04 PM

162. When she loses will you blame the electorate or blame the candidate?

And which way of thinking will you take as a lesson to learn going forward?

If you really an truly end up blaming the ELECTORATE, and then blame the ELECTORATE again after the next loss... yeeesh. Forget getting any liberal policies of any significance ever passed in this country.

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Response to yodermon (Reply #162)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 09:49 AM

179. You seem more concerned about who to blame, than of the

consequences of the GOP winning and taking over the government.

I think those priorities are wrong.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:54 AM

29. US Supreme Court, voting rights, safety net. Reasons to vote.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:02 AM

31. BS

There is no proof of this.

If they are that stupid, why do we care?

They don't even know who their congressperson is and we are supposed to care what they want?

BS, they didn't even try. They have to be entertained? They can watch American Idol.

Their needs being met is irrelevant. If they are not part of the process, and don't participate in government, they will be governed by others. Nothing stopped their getting the chance to participate.

We don't have to beg and cater to these people. They leave themselves out of the system voluntarily. If they are not going to vote, we can afford to ignore them. And you can bet the party does do its best to appeal to likely voters.

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Response to treestar (Reply #31)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:07 AM

38. Wow!

You start your post by saying, "There is no proof of this," then vomit up some pretty wild claims of your own. They're stupid, they have to be entertained, they don't know who their Congressperson is, "their needs being met is irrelevant" . . . you've just proven my point.

Come on down and scream that shit in their faces and see how many people flock to the polls.

Goddess, that was an ignorance screed! I need a shower after reading that.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #38)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:11 AM

41. So we do what - beg and beg

people who don't want to vote for us because neither party is good enough to get to the polls?

You are being very unrealistic and making the usual argument that the people are stupid sheep who can't get themselves to vote unless they are entertained and "inspired." How is that different from saying if they are stupid enough to absent themselves from the process, we don't have to cater to their votes?

And you are assuming these people support liberal policies, which is pretty dumb too. Have you ever met people who don't vote? They are never leftists. They could be inspired by a right winger faster than any left wingers.

What you are really doing is crying that the Dems are not liberal enough and trying to get us to give up on GOTV and stay home because the candidates are not as far to the left as you would like. The candidates reflect likely voters, and they are trying to win.

Really, it is getting quite tiresome. If you can't vote without "inspiration" or do you basic duty in self government without a lot of "inspiration" then stay out of the process. If you wish to discourage others, don't do it on DU as you are wasting your time.

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Response to treestar (Reply #41)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:19 AM

43. You need to stop making this about me.

I never claimed people had to be "entertained." I did claim they need to be inspired. You guys can jump up and down and spittle all over your keyboards all you want but that is a fact. If people are not given a reason to vote, they are less likely to vote.

And may I just say, you seem to be full of hatred. How inspiring do you think that is?

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #43)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:56 AM

65. Not only that, but you've been instructed to "stay out of the process"

 

by someone who comes here complaining about OP like this are only intended to discourage voting. Seems a tad ironic to me.

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Response to treestar (Reply #31)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:40 AM

55. +1,000.

n/t

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Response to treestar (Reply #31)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:08 PM

163. holy FUCKING shit. You deserve the eternal Repuke majority you will inevitably end up with

with that condescending, soulless, ivory tower attitude.

Damn, just damn. Do the party leaders really think this way? Anyone besides TREESTAR care to answer?

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:16 AM

42. I challenge anyone to produce a perfect candidate, to produce a candidate who "keeps their

promises". We should be voting for the best candidate, not voting gives an opening for the candidate who you do not want in office. I do not agree with every candidate, some I agree with less, just as I disagree with the title of this post
"People vote when they have something/someone to vote FOR." It does not make the poster bad or wrong, I just agree.

If the poster is saying "something" and forget about other issues the candidates stand for then voting against an issue you may not agree, then perhaps the post is correct.

Which candidate do you know who has kept their promises?

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #42)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:24 AM

46. This is such an old, tired trick.

If your argument is untenable, change the premise of the argument. No one asked for the perfection, that's your morph. The thread is about why there is voter apathy (even the die-hard Party Faithfuls can't deny there is voter apathy) and I posited what I think the problem is and what I think the solution is: Offer up better candidates.

The side road "perfection" argument is a diversion tactic because you guys don't have an answer other than more berating (see upthread for a BEAUT).

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #46)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:47 AM

58. OK, i see you have Warren for the 100%, what bill has she gotten passed and enacted into law?

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #58)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:02 AM

68. She conceived of, lobbied for, and talked enough people,

including Ted Kennedy to back her Consumer Protection Agency. That was her baby. But that's not the point. The point is voter apathy and what to do about it. I posited that we need better candidates who will inspire people to get out the vote. Elizabeth Warren, after just 2 years in the Senate has proposed more legislation than many Senators who have been there 10 times longer. That shows that she's willing to fight for the people and that has made her one of the most popular politicians in the nation. Why do you think the Democrats are trotting her out around the nation? Why do you think her name is in the subject line of every e-mail from the Democrats who come begging for money. Because inspiration doesn't matter? Of course it matters! It's the whole ballgame. But you're not going to inspire people by offering up candidates who have nothing more to offer other than, "I'm not a Republican." You're going to inspire people by what the candidate says and DOES.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #68)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:26 AM

82. It may surprise you there are many candidates or potential candidates with their names in

email from Democrats and money is donated. BTW, it is not only her name in the emails. It may be in the emails you receive but trust me, there are many more. I know it takes lots of contact to get other members of Congress to vote for a bill offered before it is passed. Working hard to promote ones position on an issue is good, I see Ted Cruz proposing legislation and he inspires some to get out to vote but I also hope for failure of everything he proposes. Oh, BTW, his name is in lots of emails asking for money also, in fact he had lots of emails during his "shutdown" of the government, my point is there are lots of candidates who inspire some of the population in the US but we need to be engaged and stop this silly "I will not vote for????" promotions. It is not good for this nation and ergo will not be good for the majority of the US citizens in which we know Democrats are.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #82)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:50 AM

90. I never promoted not voting.

I even put it in all caps just so no one would miss that part. I was merely relaying what was happening around me and why.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #90)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:18 PM

128. The title of your post indicates people will vote when they have something to they want.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #128)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:33 PM

131. Yes, and . . .?

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #68)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:09 PM

123. warren was kept out of the administration in the same way van jones was- with the left ignoring the

fact that limbaugh and 400 other blowhards were trashing them and lying about them from 1200 radio stations- enabling and forcing that lock step obstruction. same with any real liberal choices for the supreme court.

same with all other candidates liberals really like. we let them steal elections and drop wellstone and we didn't get in the streets.

it's gotten way past the point where 'principled' leftists can say they just can't vote for the lesser of two evils.

maybe if they're living in a cave eating roots and berries.

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Response to Thinkingabout (Reply #42)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:34 AM

49. Yes, in fact, it is up to us to vote "for" whoever is closest

to our opinions, realizing that we can't win an election alone and always have to work with other voters when it comes to self/representative government. It's not a matter of making some candidate "earn" my vote by believing all I believe in - if that were the case, I could never find a candidate perfect enough to vote for.

And assuming those who don't vote are big liberals is ridiculous. If they are staying home because the candidates are not liberal enough, shame on them. They expect the government to cater to them over other voters.

I don't believe candidates should make promises. They should tell us how they would vote. Too many candidates fall for the idea they are to do things for the voters other than represent them in a legislature or execute the laws the legislature made or makes. And they can change their position if they think their constituency is moving another way during their term of office.

No one needs someone to vote FOR. They need to vote for the candidate who best agrees with their overall general aspirations, and should not sit home because none of the candidates are "good enough" for them. That's just copping out. Be a part of things and you can say something. Decide to sit home and sulk (this is what they are implying) means you simply don't care who represents you and it can be Republicans for all you care. That's not so sympathetic as OP tries to make it. Like the poor things, it's our fault we can't come up with an inspiring enough candidate. That's not how adults should be treated.

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Response to treestar (Reply #49)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:54 AM

64. exactly, staying home, not voting or not making a vote for a selection on a ballot though

you may agree with an opponent less, is a vote for those you do not agree with on many issues. Thanks for your post.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:21 AM

44. Cuomo or Astorino? I'm from the Bronx. No thonks. n/t

 

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #44)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:38 AM

53. My state senate race is between

the incumbent R who is certifiably batshit crazy and the D, who I know personally and is certifiably batshit crazy. I wish I were kidding.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #53)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 07:51 PM

154. Are you in the 4th CD?

There was an attractive yound Hispanic D who gdidn't get past the primary, unfortunately.

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Response to eridani (Reply #154)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:43 PM

156. No, the 22nd.

Devin Nunes. There's a Democrat running against him but she's done no campaigning. The district's pretty Republican but at least the Democrats have someone on the ballot this time. That's not always the case.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #156)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:51 PM

158. 22nd has always been tough for Dems

I'm in the 34th, and we are working to elect Shari Song in the 30th against that asshole turncoat Miloscia.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #44)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:23 AM

80. Which republican endorsed candidate are you going to chose?



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Response to adirondacker (Reply #80)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:35 PM

106. I'm not allowed to advocate for a third party on DU. If I understand....

 

... the posting rules.

Therefore... I will consider my options in the privacy of the voting booth.


But you point to a fascinating dynamic: Cuomo has out-raised the GOP candidate by 23 times. That's 2300%, I believe.

I'm pretty sure in excess of 95% of that is traditionally "republican" money. i.e. corporate.

So , really: which one is the "Republican"?

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #106)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:06 PM

119. !

2300% over a Westchester shill. That's some impressive grassrots financing!
I have to say that I find the "eat soup" ad mildly entertaining, but have to disagree with Mahone's endorsements about the Upstate economy changing. This place resembles a third world country more than a thriving and economically developing one. My new phrase to describe the region is "NewPennsatuckyork"
I'm seriously regretting the move back

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:22 AM

45. The DLC/New Democrats/Blue Dogs

and whatever else the ones owned by Wall Street call themselves are offering stability in the form of business as usual.

They don't seem to realize or care that business as usual is killing this country.

I will continue to vote Democratic because that's who I want in office when Scalia drops dead and Thomas quickly retires. However, don't expect much enthusiasm.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:38 AM

51. OH GAWD.....more finger waving from people who tell us they are Democrats.....

 

but do not SUPPORT any of them!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #51)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:46 AM

57. I've not been a Democrat since 2004 and not claimed to be,

yet I've supported, donated to, volunteered for and voted for more Democrats than you can imagine. It's interesting that so many posters want to make this about me yet can't seem to address the issue. Just another diversionary tactic: If you don't like the message and can't counter with a reasoned, cogent argument, then go after the messenger.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #57)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:48 AM

59. then WHO among them DO you support?

 

I agree with Paul Krugman about the Far Left Fringe...

WAAAAY to fast to criticize....not nearly enough support....this web forum proves that!

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #59)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:13 AM

74. I'm a Democrat in a State that gets pretty good turnout in most elections, we elect Democrats and

 

pass laws that much of the county thinks of as 'far left fringe'. In 2010, when much of the country had poor results, we set a midterm turnout record. Why? Good candidates, issues on the ballot which people cared about and very easy access to voting.
The OP's point is proved by looking at the States where Democrats do well, where turnout is not depressed. If people have reason to vote and good access to voting, they vote.
I suggest that more States should consider making it easier to vote. I suggest that candidates and issues which draw voters are superior to those which do not draw voters.
Rather than casting blame they could turn to more successful Democratic regions to discover how they do it. I think that would serve them and the Party much better than repeating the same characterizations of liberals every two years.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #74)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:16 AM

77. I am sorry but I do not agree here......You are among a different kind of people there...

 

I have lived all over....People in America are not suddenly going to BECOME Vermonters.......no matter IF you throw Bernie Sanders at them or not....THAT is the reality on the ground. People generally fear change.....they WILL change but they change slowly gradually over time. That is why they will say one thing in a poll on issues......but vote against those very issues in the voting booth....

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Response to VanillaRhapsody (Reply #77)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:41 AM

87. I've never even been to Vermont.

 

But Vermonters are Americans just as you and I are.
Isn't it a bit up the Sarah Palin alley to claim the 'real America' is a more conservative America?

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #87)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:11 PM

95. Yes they are.....BUT they elected Bernie Sanders......

 

Are you denying the truth that Americans, for the most part do not go into the voting booths and vote against the very issues they claim to support?

Is that some big lie? I'd say history has borne that out!

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)


Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:50 AM

60. Well said

And right on. "Convince a man against his will, he'll be of the same opinion still"

K&R

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:56 AM

66. If you don't have something to vote for

you can't be helped.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:04 AM

70. I understand what you are saying but

Why punish a local congressional candidate because of Obama's failure to act on immigration reform?

Seems to me that having more Democrats in congress might help provide the president with the testicular fortitude to do the right thing.

If the local candidates are meh, that's one thing, but still, why pass up a chance to get a republican out of there?

My congress critter is a particularly vile republican and the way this district is constituted our only hope is to get a less vile republican to beat him in his primary. A Democrat will never get elected here. But I still go out and vote because there are local candidates and ballot measures that are important to me.

I guess what you are saying is that Hispanic voters don't see the difference between the parties the same way I do.

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Response to tularetom (Reply #70)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:35 AM

85. When Obama chose to table immigration reform

out of concern for bigots in a few southern states, and that's AFTER promising them that there would be reform, that was the last straw. The backlash has been enormous.

Unfortunately, the Democratic challengers in the two Congressional races near me either have NO money (thank you DCCC and CDP) and/or are as uninspiring as they come. Renteria's whole shpeel has been, 1) I'm not a Republican and 2) send me money. The other one, Aguilera-Marrero, has done NO campaigning. None.

IF we had candidates that were involved, competitive, out here glad-handing the people and inspiring them to get involved by promising to fight for issues that most effect them, THAT would get out the vote and counter the ill-will Obama stirred up with immigration reform. But once again, we're offered up nothing better than warm bodies and both parties will wonder why we have such low voter turnout.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:11 AM

72. not voting is voting repub. republicans have been short circuiting democracy and the left ignores it

so it's not reasonable to expect shit from this political process.

i think it's incredibly naive to let 1200 think tank coordinated and scripted radio stations blast the country for 25 years with little or no challenge, creating made to order pro corporate constituencies and alternate realities, and then expect our reps to be liberal and get things done as if that massive propaganda operation doesn't exist.

OWS failed because its national supporters didn't include republican radio in their protests and actions.

any major local or national reform issue that gets traction (such as with protests, or any democracy/democratic activism) and the appropriate think tanks devise some propaganda PR campaign to counter it. if all they've got is print and internet and tv, no big deal, common sense and the left are watching that and can fight back. but the right figured out they can pump shit out of 1200 radio stations and into the earholes of 50 million a week for months and by the time the left and the media pull their ear buds out to notice it's too late (eg. any bullshit the GOP has used to obstruct or pass everything the last 25 years). and they can keep it going for months after the protestors have gone home. politicians don't have to listen to protestors anymore- a few blowhards on the loudest radio stations work great.

the heart of the matter is global warming, campaign finance reform, media reform, and election reform, and people are too fucking lazy or 'principled' to vote against the party that's wrong and obstructionist on all of those things because the left is getting its ass kicked by a bunch of coordinated rw talk radio blowhards.

what a tragedy.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:13 AM

75. .

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:18 AM

78. Then send a message to the GOP that they are no longer welcome.

 

Otherwise, the only 'message' that gets sent is that voting for someone who will lose means the electorate prefers Republicans. And that will never change until they are gone, gone, gone.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #78)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:52 AM

91. I'm not sure I understand how this is supposed to

inspire people to get out and vote.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #91)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:21 PM

101. Does everyone need to be 'inspired' to do the right thing?

 

Why isn't doing the right thing the right thing? Giving more power to the GOP means they will think they have a mandate. Whether true or not, we know how perception colors the world.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #101)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:29 PM

104. Because the vast majority of people out there aren't like people on DU.

What matters to them is what affects their lives. If they voted for Obama twice and their family members are being deported in record numbers under a "Democratic" administration, why in the hell would they want to rush out and vote again? Vote for what? More promises? There comes a tipping point where people are going to say, "Fuck it" and head off to their third under-paid part-time jobs with no benefits. Anybody talking about that? Nope. Not in concrete terms that promise to make a difference in their lives. Lot's of promises and platitudes but they've heard those before.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #104)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:40 PM

108. I agree that what affects people's lives is important.

 

But Obama has had good political instincts. If he has made the political calculation that waiting is better than banging his head against the wall, then I trust -for the most part- that decision.

I can see only one downside to engaging in a fight that he can't win -and that's that the GOP will use his efforts as a rallying point to denigrate immigrants. Maybe that's what he is trying to avoid. But that's just my guess.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #108)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:45 PM

110. Well, I don't at all agree that Obama has good political instincts

and there are very few politicians that I trust, but that's for another thread.

Regardless of what he's trying to do and why, when you promise something, time and again, and then avoid or delay or betray that promise, it has a very real impact on people's lives and psyches and enthusiasm for going out and voting. Justice delayed is justice denied applies here.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #104)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:47 PM

112. The disconnect we're seeing in this thread is incredible.

 

Over and over, the same sentiment. 'Why should we do anything for them?'.

Party loyalists seem to think voters exist to service their beloved party, rather than the other way around.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:37 AM

86. A-FREAKING-MEN !!!


Eloquently stated.


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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:59 AM

93. Anyone that intentionally doesn't vote this election = idiot.

Being in a democracy means actually taking an active role in electing who is going to govern. This includes the times when you simply have to hold your nose and vote for the least worst option. If you don't like the candidates, vote in the primaries. If you don't like the people in the primaries, take an active part in the local Democratic Party. Still don't like the candidates, run yourself.

Too many idiots just throw up their hands and say "I don't like the candidates. I'm not voting" or "My specific cause isn't in the forefront of the political debate. I'm not voting". These kind of people are morons and should be shunned. They only harm their country and latently work to elect the least Democratic candidate.

"The remedy is not to berate people but to put up candidates for whom people will get excited..."

This kind of thinking is the problem. If people want candidates that will excite them, they need to work to nominate those people. Sitting back and doing nothing, then being pissed whenever a middling turd gets the nomination is self defeating idiocy.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #93)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:13 PM

97. Yeah, calling them "idiots" and "morons" ought to work.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #97)


Response to Post removed (Reply #100)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:30 PM

105. I rest my case.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #105)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:43 PM

109. Your "case" was more unicorn and pony nonsense.

Candidates aren't foisted on people. There is a process they have to go through to get to a general election and that is dominated by people that actually vote. The people that vote in the primaries and do the nominating are going to vote for their interests.

If the idiots that want to sit on their hands want to be inspired, they should work to nominate an inspiring candidate. They shouldn't expect others to do it for them.

Democratic countries get the governments they deserve. The morons that need "inspired" before they'll vote are only making sure we get the worst government possible.

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Response to Post removed (Reply #100)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:04 PM

118. A perfect example of exactly WHY...

... voters don't turn out.



But don't stop there! Certainly you can come up a dozen more juvenile insults to call those people you are seeking to inspire and get to enthusiastically run to the polls and bring all of their friends and family.

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Response to 99Forever (Reply #118)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:11 PM

124. If they need to be "inspired" to do the right thing for their country...

... they can can go fuck themselves.

Elections have consequences. The consequence for sitting out an election because you aren't "inspired" enough is electing the worst possible candidate that will consistently do the wrong thing. If they are too fucking stupid to understand that, they can't be helped.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #124)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:15 PM

125. You're a real class act.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #93)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:15 PM

126. vote or suck. the right is winning so don't vote. what brilliant logic.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:23 PM

102. EVERY election year we vote for one PERMANENT issue - The Supreme Court.

.

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Response to blm (Reply #102)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:19 PM

129. now, because IDIOTS haven't been voting, we have another permanent issue- GLOBAL WARMING

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Response to certainot (Reply #129)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 04:24 PM

184. Exactly!!!

.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:26 PM

103. The remedy is not only putting up candidates. It's getting stuff done that helps people.

FDR won Presidential elections until he literally dropped dead. And his coattails outlived him by a lot.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:37 PM

107. I have something to vote for

I have the USSC to vote for. I have women's rights and LGBT rights to vote for. I have a functioning, unobstructed legislative process to vote for. I have voting rights, the environment, separation of church and state, health care, and an economy to vote for. I have lots more things to vote for, and yes, even some to vote against. I have plenty of things to vote for, because I'm not waiting on a perfect, properly charismatic candidate who will magically make it all happen tomorrow, or for the media to tell me who that person is.

I'm voting straight D. YMMV.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:46 PM

111. Look, during election season, trashing, undermining or depressing turnout for Dem candidates is

 

against the TOS:

For non-presidential contests, election season begins on Labor Day. Everyone here on DU needs to work together to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of American government. If you are bashing, trashing, undermining, or depressing turnout for our candidates during election season, we'll assume you are rooting for the other side.


So, maybe you can get why people are getting pissed off at all the Dem bashing right now. It's nothing more than ratfucking during an election season.

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Response to JTFrog (Reply #111)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:59 PM

114. And if this is a TOS violation there has been plenty of time

for Hosts to lock it or for somebody to Alert and a jury to Hide. This thread is about how to get MORE people to get out and vote which does not fall under "trashing, undermining or depressing turnout for the Dem candidate" terms of TOS

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #114)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:01 PM

164. Very sad

comentary for someone who claims to tout Elisabeth Warrens views.....

Http://www.occupydemocrats.com/watch-elizabeth-warren-lists-3-big-reasons-why-you-should-vote-blue-in-2014

Just saying......

Seems she believes in voting Democrat.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:06 PM

121. K&R

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:08 PM

133. Seems that Democrats and Republicans have different standards

of what standing for something means.

To Democrats, it's not enough to say "I'm not a wingnut".

But to Republicans, even a RINO will get their vote if the RINO recites the typical "Obama bad must stop Obama he's going to take your guns away" line.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:38 PM

135. I'm back at DU after a several month layoff where I read from time to time but wasn't posting

It's opened my eyes a bit to some of what goes on around here, being too close to the trees blurs the forest out of focus.

What's really interesting and a little disturbing about this thread is that the OP is describing reality, how a great many human beings actually act and think and getting lambasted for doing so and told that humans shouldn't act or think this way when so many of them so clearly do.

It's like evolution deniers who get upset when you point out that modern medicine is entirely based on science that holds evolution to basically be established fact even if in science it is called a theory.



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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #135)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:44 PM

136. It's like certain posters that make divisive threads right before election time

 

year after year after year. Seen it for so long now, that they are boring and predictable and somewhat sad to me.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #135)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 09:22 AM

175. +1 You nailed it.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:51 PM

137. This is true. But the questions is - why is it so hard to get people to do something about it?

I don't mean spending 24/7 fighting the establishment, but why is it so hard to get people to pay attention to and show up for primaries, to pay attention to party elections, etc.? It seems like there's a learned helplessness involved, were many people either think the candidates in November are hand picked by elites and they have no choice, or that any human being would be equally bad so it doesn't matter who gets picked.

Maybe activists have to do more than just tell people to vote (I know, some already do)? Maybe showing up in the community more and getting to know people is more important than just knocking on a few more doors. I don't know.

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Response to Chathamization (Reply #137)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:00 PM

140. Politics is a huge social minefield, it always has been but there are more and bigger mines now

Most people really don't want to risk their jobs, family, relationships and so on by talking politics, it can be a fast track to screwing your life up.

You really have to know a lot to argue politics at all adroitly, it's easy to get your ass handed to you in public, even experienced and seasoned politicians trip over their own tongues, the average Joe doesn't stand much of a chance.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #140)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:15 PM

142. Yeah, but the average Joe could easily spend a few hours a year reading up on primary and local

party candidates, and then vote accordingly. But those get entirely ignored most of the time. Again, I think there's a certain learned helplessness - people seem to think of general election candidates or party members as something chosen by others, not something they choose. I can't say that I blame them - the media generally ignores these (our local party suspended elections for two years just because, it wasn't reported on, they largely won reelection over a group of progressives trying to clean up the party). Figures and sites on the left largely ignore local politics (I barely hear any talking about the importance of local politics; in fact, some big figures that live in the area treat it as a joke) and barely pay attention to primaries (often just the presidential primaries, and then often just 2-3 candidates approved by the establishment).

But we can and we do get better politicians if we vote for better politicians. We can also do a lot through ballot initiatives. Most of the time the support we need from average Joes isn't that they devote their lives to these things, but just that they pay attention and show up.

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Response to Chathamization (Reply #142)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:56 PM

144. You can't penetrate the first layer of the tightly interwoven sphere of pure bullshit in that time

I'm fairly obsessive with a better than average memory and I can't remotely begin to keep track of everything I have learned about politics in the last fifteen years or so.

By the time I turned sixty I had figured out that practically everything I thought I knew at thirty was either a lie or some kind of oversimplification.

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Response to Fumesucker (Reply #144)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 04:07 PM

146. Well, that's true to some extent. That's why networks of progressives are useful. Each individual

has a piece of the puzzle, and when they get together they usually have a pretty good idea of what's happening. So, for instance, I've found my local Democracy for America group to be great for keeping me informed about who's doing what (and sharing information when I have it). I also found that it's a good way to keep a larger network of individuals informed - I found someone voting for a good progressive candidate who was endorsed by the national DFA in a large part because they trusted that kind of endorsement.

The Working Families Party does things that annoy me sometimes, but they can also be pretty good for spreading some of this. Our local Democratic Socialist group seems to be trying to be more like this as well.

Maybe the question should be - how come more progressives aren't networking? Shouldn't we all be members of DFA, and sharing local information in the "places" forums here?

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:57 PM

138. The DC DEMS just can't help showing their 1% ways. And I'm pretty sure they don't care. They'll

 

please their masters and get those big fat paychecks, irregardless of how/if we vote. We are essentially irrelevant in the mind of the DC Establishment. Oh sure, we can protest with signs and whatnot, call their offices and fume to their underpaid/overworked/underappreciated underlings, and write letters they never personally read, but at the end of the day, they laugh at our hardships, mocking us and our unimportant little lives that they don't really understand or care about. Silly little people with their silly little problems.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:57 PM

139. Pot will get them out. nt

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Response to valerief (Reply #139)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 07:32 PM

153. That was the best vote I have ever made!

 

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:07 PM

141. Wise truths.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:28 PM

143. DON'T DECEIVE YOURSELVES....

YOU VOTE. You may not go to your polling station and push some buttons, but your action contributes to the outcome of the election. It has a measurable value equal to the one you apply in the voting booth. Your missing/non-vote helps someone win and someone lose. Don't EVER KID YOURSELF....even when you stay home, YOU ARE VOTING! Think of it this way, your house starts on fire. You have two options, call the fire department to try and save your house or don't do anything and let it burn to the ground. Either way you will be affected by the outcome. YOU CAN NOT ESCAPE THAT REALITY. It is absolutely absurd to excuse yourself claiming don't have someone/something to vote for but then let someone else make the decisions for you.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 04:01 PM

145. Elections aren't cancelled because of voter apathy. SOMEONE wins and takes power.

If people are foolish enough to think things wouldn't be any worse with the likes of a Rand Paul or Ted Cruz in the WH rubber-stamping Teabagger legislation, they'll have to find out the hard way.

If pointing out REALITY is considered 'berating', too bad.

I really don't have sympathy for people who piss away their voting privilege when activists were (and are) killed trying to make sure people can go to the polls.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 04:17 PM

147. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

 



And when you try... it gets mostly ignored/dismissed by the very people screaming GOTV !!!

Example:




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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 07:05 PM

152. Correct. Millions THOUGHT that had something to vote for back in 2008 ...

 

... but that "something" turned out to be one of the biggest duds ever. Now the people don't want be made a fool of again by the Democrats ...

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:37 PM

155. They also vote when they have something/someone to vote against

I still recall when the Ohio republicans put gay marriage on the ballot in 2004 to get outraged conservatives to the polls. They voted overwhelmingly against marriage equality and for Bush.

It's easy to say all a party has to do is introduce a candidate that appeals to the far left or right, but reality is that moderates vote for candidates that do no harm in their eyes, and the middle is by far the biggest voting bloc.

I absolutely love Bernie Sanders, but I'll guarantee most would show up on election day to vote against a socialist. Fox News is proof that American voters are stupid like that.

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Response to JohnnyRingo (Reply #155)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 09:30 AM

176. Very true.

 

[hr][font color="blue"][center]I'm always right. When I'm wrong I admit it.
So then I'm right about being wrong.
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:50 PM

157. DU is NOT full of policy wonks

we see many times that people have no idea about basic things.

there are also too many conspiracy theorists and people who just want attention .

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Response to JI7 (Reply #157)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:33 PM

161. +1 ...

 

I will grant that DUers are a little more political aware than the average citizen; but reading what someone else says about a policy and forming an opinion, is not being a policy wonk.

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Response to JI7 (Reply #157)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 10:30 AM

182. Too many people who just want attention

Yeah, I figure anyone with over 50,000 posts is probably just seeking attention..



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Response to JI7 (Reply #157)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 07:28 PM

185. I crack up at EVERY one of the self-congratulatory "DUers are sooo much more informed than

everyone else" threads. I literally crack up laughing.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:11 PM

160. Actually ...

 

though I understand and appreciate what you are saying ... the academic research indicates that people are far more moved to protect against a discrete loss than to obtain a gain.

That's why negative campaigning works.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 03:08 AM

165. Howard Dean was RIGHT! contest everything. 50 state strategy.

you either fight or you follow.

and the overton window shows that following the crazies as they run right off a cliff will in no way shift things to the left.

to shift things left, you gotta BE LEFT. you gotta FIGHT FOR the people, not against them.

your post is absolutely right.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 04:43 AM

166. Try using the facts

Try using the following facts to motivate those disaffected by the delay:

1. The president has already given the dreamers legal status and

2. Many republicans have promised to end that status by law should the GOP gain control of both the house and the senate.

3. The GOP incites hate and fear against immigrants to win elections and

4. Democrats do not.

5. Not voting is a choice that supports the status quo and

6. The status quo is the gop will not support any sane immigration reform despite our nation's sore need of it.

7. Boycotting the vote achieves nothing this country needs, while

8. Rewarding those who seek to solve non-existent problems in order to ensure their own power (see voter I.d. Laws).

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Response to Tweedy (Reply #166)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 05:35 AM

167. I'm not a partisan.

The Democrats need to get out their propaganda. And good luck with that 'cause it's worked so well in the past.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Reply #167)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 12:10 PM

183. The facts are not propaganda

I am not a partisan either. The facts are the facts. Use them.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 08:13 AM

168. Anyone we put up that the Republicans hate

is enough to get me to get out and vote for them. The more Republican's lose, the more we send a message to them.

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 08:37 AM

169. This is DU, the remedy will always be to berate people

That's why people are here, to bleat and scapegoat.




If they really wanted change they would canvas and register voters and support good candidates. Now what do you suppose causes good candidates to run for office? Berating?

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Response to Le Taz Hot (Original post)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 09:50 AM

180. Astute observation!

Also when there's an election they vote.

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