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Sat Oct 11, 2014, 07:22 AM

Women bear brunt of Islamophobia

It is the little things that Sara misses the most: driving around with the windows down, taking her kids to the park, ducking to shops for groceries.

The Muslim mother-of-two from Revesby is too scared to leave the house after a spate of anti-Muslim incidents in Sydney.

"I've seen so many friends report on their Facebook about being abused, I have a friend who was spat on at Central station last week. When the Bankstown shopping centre was evacuated the other day for a smoke alarm I had friends who said the crowds started to abuse them and shout insults" she said.

<snip>

Since the anti-terror raids, attacks on Muslims have been "relentless" and "disgusting" with incidents more widespread than reported, police say.

Campsie crime manager, detective inspector Paul Albury, said social media has been a breeding ground for hatred. And women seem to bear the brunt of the abuse.

"It's targeting women, which is just mind-blowing," he said.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/women-bear-brunt-of-islamophobia-20141009-113r9o.html#ixzz3FpnjZGjY



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Arrow 122 replies Author Time Post
Reply Women bear brunt of Islamophobia (Original post)
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 OP
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #1
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #2
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #4
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #5
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #6
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #7
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #8
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #10
CJCRANE Oct 2014 #11
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #12
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #13
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #15
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #19
AgingAmerican Oct 2014 #64
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #102
AgingAmerican Oct 2014 #108
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #110
CJCRANE Oct 2014 #35
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #36
CJCRANE Oct 2014 #39
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #43
AgingAmerican Oct 2014 #66
xxqqqzme Oct 2014 #50
WinkyDink Oct 2014 #87
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #103
leftynyc Oct 2014 #121
WinkyDink Oct 2014 #85
samsingh Oct 2014 #27
CJCRANE Oct 2014 #38
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #41
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #49
samsingh Oct 2014 #54
CJCRANE Oct 2014 #56
samsingh Oct 2014 #57
CJCRANE Oct 2014 #59
WinkyDink Oct 2014 #89
AgingAmerican Oct 2014 #63
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #104
SidDithers Oct 2014 #3
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #14
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #16
arthritisR_US Oct 2014 #75
NCTraveler Oct 2014 #119
cali Oct 2014 #9
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #17
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #18
Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #20
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #21
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #22
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #24
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #29
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #33
AgingAmerican Oct 2014 #68
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #105
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #115
samsingh Oct 2014 #31
Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #113
samsingh Oct 2014 #118
Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #120
samsingh Oct 2014 #122
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #32
edhopper Oct 2014 #44
Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #62
randome Oct 2014 #46
CJCRANE Oct 2014 #52
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #55
Crabby Appleton Oct 2014 #23
samsingh Oct 2014 #30
hifiguy Oct 2014 #65
arthritisR_US Oct 2014 #71
bobclark86 Oct 2014 #80
nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #82
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #91
nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #93
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #94
nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #95
LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #90
bobclark86 Oct 2014 #98
Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #114
treestar Oct 2014 #25
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #26
treestar Oct 2014 #28
CJCRANE Oct 2014 #45
KitSileya Oct 2014 #47
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #106
Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #34
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #37
Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #40
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #42
CBGLuthier Oct 2014 #60
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #61
Scootaloo Oct 2014 #78
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #81
Scootaloo Oct 2014 #83
ProdigalJunkMail Oct 2014 #84
Scootaloo Oct 2014 #86
edhopper Oct 2014 #48
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #53
hifiguy Oct 2014 #69
Scootaloo Oct 2014 #79
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #96
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #58
Chathamization Oct 2014 #72
Crunchy Frog Oct 2014 #97
Behind the Aegis Oct 2014 #107
Rhinodawg Oct 2014 #116
MisterP Oct 2014 #73
KitSileya Oct 2014 #51
closeupready Oct 2014 #67
ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #70
arthritisR_US Oct 2014 #76
ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #77
arthritisR_US Oct 2014 #100
Skittles Oct 2014 #101
Bluenorthwest Oct 2014 #74
nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #92
Violet_Crumble Oct 2014 #109
nomorenomore08 Oct 2014 #88
JI7 Oct 2014 #99
countryjake Oct 2014 #111
alphafemale Oct 2014 #112
La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2014 #117

Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:21 AM

1. women also bear the brunt of Islam...

in every country where Islam is the religion AND the gov't ... women suffer.

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:31 AM

2. The article's about Islamophobia in Australia...

Islamophobia, not Islam...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:39 AM

4. and yet my point stands...

like it or not, islamophobia is not be biggest 'islam-problem' women face.

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #4)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:41 AM

5. You don't have a point...

You've ignored the article, which was about abuse of Muslim women in Australia, and tried to divert it away from that.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:42 AM

6. nope... i ignored nothing

and am simply stating that your article points out a problem that is not the biggest problem that the women under islam face... but you go on and act like i don't have a point.

that said, it is a shame anyone is persecuted for their religion...

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #6)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:52 AM

7. You haven't said anything about the Islamophobia aimed at women in Australia...

Well, except for that last little 'it's a shame' bit tacked on to the end of the post I'm replying to now. Because what yr talking about isn't what the article's about. The article was about Islamophobia and the attacks on Muslim women in Australia. What has what you've said got to do with what's being done to them? If you wanted to talk about Islam itself, there's plenty of other threads where that discussion's going on. But this one is about attacks by bigots in Australia who hate Muslims, and how women have become targets.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #7)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:56 AM

8. ok... let's try this again

islamophobia (see, i am talking about it) is NOT the biggest problem women under islam face. i don't think you get that. so, i posted the comment on your thread. the fact that you can't seem to understand that leads me to believe that you think islamophobia IS the biggest problem they face (in this case, in australia) so it would appear my post was appropriately placed.

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:59 AM

10. No, yr still not talking about it...

The attacks and abuse these women are facing *is* the biggest problem these women face. You do realise Australia's not a Muslim country, don't you?

It just seems to me you want to minimise the very real Islamophobic attacks that have been happening here.

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:01 AM

11. Islamophobia is the biggest problem

muslim women in Australia face.

That is the topic at hand.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #11)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:21 AM

12. no... it's not... but keep on believing that... n/t

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #12)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:31 AM

13. Okay, what do you think is the biggest problem Australian Muslim women face as Muslims?

I mean, I could just go and ask a bunch of Australian Muslim women, but why do that when an American can tell us all what they face and what they should be concerned about?

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #13)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:48 AM

15. that they are mired in a religion that treats them as worse than chattel...

and, you know nothing of me. nothing of my travels nor my experience with the religion. but it is obvious that you are less concerned with how the religion views them than making assumptions about people who disagree with you.

nice chatting with you. perhaps one day you'll open your eyes.

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:00 AM

19. I'm pretty sure Australian Muslim women would disagree with you

See being physically attacked and abused by bigots is pretty horrific. They don't suffer other discrimination here in Australia. Even someone with the most basic knowledge of Australia knows it's not a Muslim country and Muslim women have the same rights as any other Australian woman. It doesn't even take visiting here to know that.

What you may not be aware of is that recently there's been a spate of attacks on Muslims, particularly women, by bigots. I don't think someone going 'you belong to a shit religion' is going to be much comfort to them or convince them the problems they're facing now aren't worth talking about.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #19)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:47 PM

64. They are pummeled from all sides

 

They are pummeled by bigots because they are the most visible symbols of Islam when living outside Islamic countries. They are the most visible because they are forced to dress a certain way by their religion.

They are also forced to undergo female circumcision within their communities, where their clitoris is removed.

These things are not mutually exclusive, then are pummeled from all sides, from within and from outside their religion. Why this upsets you so much is beyond me. It is all tied together. To put these things into proper context, you must be willing to hear all sides. Why don't you just acknowledge these obvious facts and move on rather than taking it personally and turning it into a dramatic pissing contest?

Reacting to the reaction = Drama, IMHO.

Just my two cents.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #64)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 02:43 AM

102. I dunno. Maybe you should try reading the OP I posted. It was about Islamophobia in Australia...

Just curious. Do you think that when someone posts about anti-Semitic attacks everyone should be 'willing to hear all sides'? and you'd have no problem with DUers posting in response to a thread and playing the 'look over there! It's so much worse! Let's talk about that instead!' card?

The thing is I don't think anyone's unaware that the treatment of women in some Muslim countries is appalling. So I'm not getting why there's an almost kneejerk insistence that it must be talked about whenever anyone mentions anti-Muslim attacks in Western countries. Is it a They Should Shut Up And Be Grateful thing?

I'm not sure how you manage to read drama and upset into me responding to a few bizarre responses to the OP I started. There's nothing dramatic about that. If you don't want to talk about the subject of the OP, then maybe you should move on rather than taking it all personally and turning it into a dramatic pissing contest.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #102)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 03:19 AM

108. I did read it

 

nt

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #108)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 03:26 AM

110. So you just don't want to talk about the attacks on those women. Okay...

I'm not going to try to stop you from not talking about what's a real issue in the society I live in.

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:41 AM

35. Do you know any Australian muslim women?

Do you know any muslim women?

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #35)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:42 AM

36. yes... do you?

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #36)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:45 AM

39. No but I think being attacked by racists

is not nice or excusable.

Dehumanizing them by saying their lives are already bad so it doesn't matter makes the problem worse.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #39)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:48 AM

43. once again... bigots... not racists.

and no one is dehumanizing anyone...not even close.

sP

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #35)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:52 PM

66. I have worked with them for years

 

And they take abuse from all sides. They are forced to dress a certain way which makes them the most visible symbols of their religion outside Islamic countries, which makes them targets.

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #15)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:53 AM

50. I understand what you are saying.

I quite agree with you.Yes, it is horrible women are bearing the brunt of harassment by thick headed Australians. And yes, they face even greater threats in countries controlled by their religion.

Wasn't there a 16 year old girl hanged recently in Iran for violating 'chastity' laws because she was raped? During her trial, if the report was accurate, she dared bare her face and demand the court punish her rapist.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #13)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:31 PM

87. You are disingenuously narrowing the topic almost to the point of parody.

 




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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #87)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 02:45 AM

103. The topic was Islamophobic attacks in Australia...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025651386

I remember that as I'm the person who started the OP. Seems to me you and a few others don't want to discuss Islamophobia and attacks on Muslims...

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #87)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 04:12 PM

121. I don't remember seeing

 

the complaints about every single article about the more brutal tents of Islam turning into a bashing about Christianity (and sometimes Judaism). Then it's perfectly okay to deflect from the OP topic. Hypocrisy abounds.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #11)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:29 PM

85. Perhaps you think they'd have it better in Muslim countries?

 

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:22 AM

27. you're right - the bigger problem women under islam face is being killed by relatives

or being stoned to death by their community. it is being forced to dressing a certain way or being killed.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #27)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:44 AM

38. So beating up muslim women by racists is okay

because you think their lives are already bad?

You are dehumanizing them.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #38)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:46 AM

41. they're not racists... they're bigots...

this is about religion... not race.

and you have made quite the stretch, there. no one has even come remotely close to saying it's ok that these women are facing persecution... but for some reason YOU seem to be reading that into this thread.

sP

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #38)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:53 AM

49. Islam is a set of beliefs. Race and sexual orientation are a matter of nature.

So stop equating them.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #38)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:57 AM

54. it's not okay. i'm not dehumanizing them. but i'm not going to ignore the reality

of all the Islamic women who are killed and controlled under our noses either.

is the racism bad? yes. it should be stopped.

is that the worst problem facing Islamic women? no, their own culture is.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #54)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:00 AM

56. Fair enough

but I tend to think western policy makers don't care as our governments support actions that incease islamic fundamentalism directly and indirectly.

We can make a big impact by changing our policies.

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #56)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:23 AM

57. we never should have supported the likes of saddam

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Response to samsingh (Reply #57)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:00 PM

59. He was a bad guy but he kept a lid on the fundies.

The same goes for Gaddafi and Assad.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #57)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:32 PM

89. What we should not have done is attack him.

 

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:37 PM

63. Why are you trying to control

 

What people think? The poster is speaking the truth. Why are you so offended by it?

Reacting to the reaction = DRAMA.

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Response to AgingAmerican (Reply #63)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 02:57 AM

104. Huh?

I posted an OP about Islamophobia in Australia. The poster you claim speaks the truth appears to be confusing Australia with somewhere like Afghanistan and wants to talk about the treatment of women there rather than the anti-Muslim attacks on Muslim women in Australia.

So, tell me how this works. DUers are only supposed to post once in a thread and never respond again, otherwise it's DRAMA? That's kind of silly, imo.

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:34 AM

3. +1...nt

Sid

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:37 AM

14. Agreed. Misogyny is rampant in most religions.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #14)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:49 AM

16. indeed... n/t

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #16)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:48 PM

75. I detest all religions. To me they all suspend

independent critical thinking. They rely on an "us against them" mentality. Their tribalism allows each respective religious group to think that theirs is the only one true religion. They are all BS in my opinion.

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #1)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 12:52 PM

119. Nailed it.

 

And you did so without taking away from the ops story. Great job.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 08:57 AM

9. this is an excellent point.

 

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:57 AM

17. Yep, that sucks.

You know what also sucks for Islamic women? Being a woman in Islamic countries stretching from central Africa to the Middle East.

Here are a few of the indignities they face:

1. Stoning for apostasy.
2. Stoning for adultery.
3. Stoning for "witch-craft".
4. Hanging for being homosexual.
5. Being forced to marry your rapist.
6. Having to choose between marrying your rapist or being stoned for adultery.
7. Not being allowed to drive.
8. Not being allowed to work.
9. Not being allowed to leave the house without an escort.
10. Having acid thrown in your face for turning a man down.
11. Having acid thrown in your face for not having it shrouded.
12. Not having the choice to not have your entire body shrouded.
13. Female Genital Mutilation
14. Being trafficked into slavery.

I could go on and on and on. When it comes to oppressing women, Muslim countries have it down to an art form.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 09:58 AM

18. this ^

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #18)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:01 AM

20. This ^^^^

 

Bookmarked forever.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:01 AM

21. Australia isn't a Muslim country, though n/t

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #21)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:09 AM

22. Yep, that's why they don't face...

1. Stoning for apostasy.
2. Stoning for adultery.
3. Stoning for "witch-craft".
4. Hanging for being homosexual.
5. Being forced to marry your rapist.
6. Having to choose between marrying your rapist or being stoned for adultery.
7. Not being allowed to drive.
8. Not being allowed to work.
9. Not being allowed to leave the house without an escort.
10. Having acid thrown in your face for turning a man down.
11. Having acid thrown in your face for not having it shrouded.
12. Not having the choice to not have your entire body shrouded.
13. Female Genital Mutilation
14. Being trafficked into slavery.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #22)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:17 AM

24. Well the ops about attacks by bigots on Australian women

That other stuff doesn't happen to Muslim women in Australia.

The op was about islamophobia here in Australia, and I'm glad the cops here at least don't respond to the attacks the way some DUers do

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #24)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:31 AM

29. I don't think anyone is justifying ridicule or cruelty, only pointing out the fact that if one is

Concerned about the general well being of women, many of the beliefs and practices of Islam are harmful/deadly to women. When discussing women and Islam, it's worth noting.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #29)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:37 AM

33. thank you... well said n/t

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #29)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:57 PM

68. They are the most visible targets of Islam

 

Because they are forced to be so by their religion.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #29)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 03:01 AM

105. I think minimising it would be a better way of putting it...

I've got a question for you. If a Muslim woman in the US is sexually harassed or raped, do you think people should also point out facts about Islam? Or is that only acceptable if a Muslim woman in a western country is attacked by bigots who hate her because she's Muslim?

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #105)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 11:05 AM

115. I think that the title of this piece invites discussion on the treatment of women *within* Islam

as well as treatment from external forces.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #24)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:33 AM

31. i can't forget the innocent girls being stoned to death for talking to a male in Pakistan or Afgan

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Response to samsingh (Reply #31)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 07:02 AM

113. I've believed Islam is a religion of Peace...

 

The past 2weeks, I'm not so sure.

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Response to Rhinodawg (Reply #113)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 12:48 PM

118. at one point i thought all religions had merit, wanted the same thing, and were equal

then Salman Rusdie was given a death sentence for free speech. Where was the outrage by the believers in peace?

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Response to samsingh (Reply #118)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 04:02 PM

120. "Outrage by the believers of peace" ?

 

none. Don t be silly.

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Response to Rhinodawg (Reply #120)

Mon Oct 13, 2014, 05:04 PM

122. and also notice that many of the believers don't subscribe to violence

many can be 50.1% which leaves a lot of supporters for violence.

even if it's 2/3 or 99/100 what does that leave?

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #24)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:35 AM

32. The juxtaposition is valid.

When Islamic women have far greater legal protections and safety in "islamophobic" countries than they do in Islamic countries, it illustrates that Western Liberal Democracies probably aren't the problem.

Bigotry and hatred are poor responses to any threat. But, these bigots are the exception in Western countries. In Islamic countries from Africa to the Middle East institutionalized bigotry and sexism in the norm.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #32)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:48 AM

44. And what is portrayed in this article

is verbal abuse. While that should never be tolerated or justified, it pales in comparison to what woman face in Muslim countries.
It is also something that can be confronted and diminished with public awareness campaigns, as has been done with other minorities in western democracies. Look at the acceptances of Gay people here compared to 20 years ago.
But because of religion, the plight of women in Muslim countries is much more ingrained and so much harder to change.

In other words, while women bear the brunt of Islamophobia, they really bear the brunt of Islam.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #44)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:32 PM

62. "... they really bear the brunt of Islam."

 

That is the truth.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #32)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:49 AM

46. All too true.

 


[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #32)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:55 AM

52. I think the bigger issue is that neocons

like Tony Abbott thrive on bigotry and division while at the same time supporting islamic regimes thst export fundamentalism.

This is the absurdity of western policy: that we support islamic extremists and fight them at the same time.

We might as well cut out the middle man and punch ourselves in the face!

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Response to CJCRANE (Reply #52)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:57 AM

55. on this you and i agree

people like abbott need the hatred and anger so it benefits them to support those regimes.

sP

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:12 AM

23. Indeed. nt

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:32 AM

30. you are right

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:52 PM

65. Yep.

 

That is beyond depressing primarily because it is 100% true. "Barbarism" is the word that comes immediately to mind.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:35 PM

71. In general men don't get attacked in a crowd

because there is no dress code imposed on them. Therefore there is no salient feature that pegs them as being Muslim versus others in a crowd who are not. Women however are not so fortunate and their religious garb instantly identifies them as being Muslim. This is very convenient for the men of this patriarchal religion.

I think it's very cowardly for people to be going after these women. I don't see this ending anytime soon and it will probably escalate with more atrocities posted in videos by ISIS.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #17)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:12 PM

80. So... a lot of things that happen in the Christian parts of Africa, too.

Because Ethiopia, which is predominantly Christian, sees none of those problems (like trafficking, abuse of gays, genital mutilation).

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #80)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:22 PM

82. True. But it's always easier to blame stuff on the other guy's religion. n/t

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #82)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:44 PM

91. I'm an atheist.

I don't see too many atheists beheading people or stoning women for apostasy.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #91)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:51 PM

93. True, but I'm a nonbeliever myself, and my first reaction to the OP was to feel sympathy

for the victims of these assaults. Not to say, "Well, their religion treats them even worse, so..."

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Response to nomorenomore08 (Reply #93)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:57 PM

94. That's why it's nice to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time.

Drawing a juxtaposition between the actions against women by Islamophobes in Western countries and how they are treated by their own religion in the geographical center of Islam is valid.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #94)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:59 PM

95. So long as the latter isn't used to downplay the former, I agree.

Like I said, they (Muslim women) really get it from both sides.

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Response to bobclark86 (Reply #80)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:41 PM

90. And?

I'm sure if I looked for outliers I could find Buddhists and Jains that do some shitty things too.

We're not dealing with outliers though in Africa and the Middle East when it comes to Muslim countries that are oppressive, have institutionalized bigotry and sexism, and have disgusting records on human rights. It is almost the norm except for the few countries where secularism is enforced at gunpoint.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #90)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 07:59 PM

98. Good to see places like...

Ethiopia, Eritrea, Uganda, Liberia, Ivory Coast, Cameroon, Kenya, Tanzania, Ghana, Togo, Benin, and the Central African Republic have no problems with female genital mutilation -- one of the "barbarisms of Islam" as I've seen posted here, as all of those countries aren't Muslim -- in fact, they're primarily Christian or have a plurality of Christians.

Oh, wait.

Wikipedia's info on prevalence of female genital mutilation

FGM is mostly found in what political scientist Gerry Mackie describes as an "intriguingly contiguous" zone in Africa east to west from Somalia to Senegal, and north to south from Egypt to Tanzania.[72] Information about its prevalence has been collected since 1989 in a series of Demographic and Health Surveys and Multiple Indicator Cluster Surveys funded by the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) and the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF).[73] UNICEF notes that the women who respond to these surveys are reporting events that occurred years ago, so the data may not reflect current trends.[74]

A 2013 UNICEF report based on 70 of these surveys indicated that FGM is concentrated in 27 African countries, as well as Yemen and Iraqi Kurdistan.[73] UNICEF estimates that 125 million women and girls in those countries have been affected.[4] The report grouped the countries according to the prevalence among women aged 1549:[75]


Half of those African countries have majority or plurality Christianity. As you can see, it's a sub-Saharan Africa problem, not an Arab or Islamic problem (since most people get those last two groups confused).

But those countries -- like Eritrea, which has an 89 percent rate of female genital mutilation -- are just "outliers."

Oh, and if you want to take a look at disgusting records on human rights, look in a mirror sometime. And I don't mean 200 years ago, either. You know who the last president to allow the forced removal of Seneca Nation of Indians members was? John F. Kennedy.

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Response to LostInAnomie (Reply #17)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 07:23 AM

114. That anti-liberal hateful violent misogynist list

 

Should be read by these idiot supporters who as pointed out in Real time become irate over an abortion bombing from 20 years ago but give Islam a pass from what's happening now.



Here are a few of the indignities they face:

1. Stoning for apostasy.
2. Stoning for adultery.
3. Stoning for "witch-craft".
4. Hanging for being homosexual.
5. Being forced to marry your rapist.
6. Having to choose between marrying your rapist or being stoned for adultery.
7. Not being allowed to drive.
8. Not being allowed to work.
9. Not being allowed to leave the house without an escort.
10. Having acid thrown in your face for turning a man down.
11. Having acid thrown in your face for not having it shrouded.
12. Not having the choice to not have your entire body shrouded.
13. Female Genital Mutilation
14. Being trafficked into slavery.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:19 AM

25. Weird. Maybe they are more identifiable than the men

due to the head or body coverings?

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Response to treestar (Reply #25)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:22 AM

26. Yeah I suspect that'd be it

Where I live there's a fair few women who wear the hijab.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:28 AM

28. Is there much anti-immigrant sentiment in Australia?

It strikes me that it would be harder for illegals to sneak in because they'd need a boat, and thus they would tend to be legal. Even so, that doesn't protect them from prejudice.

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Response to treestar (Reply #28)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:48 AM

45. Tony Abbot is a neocon from what I can tell.

Stirring up islamophobia is what they do.

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Response to treestar (Reply #28)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:52 AM

47. Historically, Australia has been very racist in their immigration quotas.

IIRC, they severely restricted Asian immigration, while opening up for (Northern) European immigration. After WWII, German immigrants were more welcome than Greek immigrants, even though Anzac forces fought with Greeks against Germany. I'm not Australian, tho', so ymmv.

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Response to treestar (Reply #28)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 03:08 AM

106. Yes, it's pretty rampant...

Tony Abbott's stop the boats!! crap appeals to the bigotry and dislike of outsiders that some Australians, especially older ones, have. To him and his fans the problem's the asylum seekers, not the people smugglers who rip them off and put their lives at risk...

Whenever there's a wave of immigration that doesn't involve white, English speaking refugees, bigotry and xenophobia appears. In the 70's it was the Vietnamese and Cambodian refugees, in the early noughties it was Afghans and Iraqis, and a few years ago it was Somali refugees...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:39 AM

34. I'm continually astounded these days

at the bigotry and outright RW sentiments expressed on DU. I'm starting to find the site genuinely unreadable.

K&R, if only to highlight how far DU has deteriorated.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #34)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:43 AM

37. and which sentiment in this thread is outright RW, pray-tell...

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #37)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:46 AM

40. You're one of many that I have on "manual ignore".

I won't be reading or responding to any more of your posts.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #40)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:47 AM

42. ah, facts are a problem for you then...

figures...

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #37)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:06 PM

60. Yours, silly. Every fucking one of them.

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Response to CBGLuthier (Reply #60)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 12:11 PM

61. yeah, pointing out the atrocities carried out by countries

where islam is the 'law of the land' is SOOOO RW... ya nailed me. i guess i will go cry now and maybe do my penance...

oh, and nice blinders you have there. very fucking effective...

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #61)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:07 PM

78. As a method of deflecting from the abuse Muslim women face in Australia?

 

Paired with an effort to justify the abuse they are dealt?

Bigotry is not necessarily right-wing, but it is certainly reactionary and regressive and you are fucking wallowing in it.

Saudi Arabia has nothing the fuck to do with Australia.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #78)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:20 PM

81. what the fuck are you talking about

who is justifying anything? nice job of pulling that out of your nether regions.

and pointing out that all women under islamic law are being abused is NOT bigotry... it is fact. but maybe you're comfortable with it.

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #81)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:24 PM

83. Pay attention to your posts

 

You respond to an article about abuse Muslim women suffer at the hands of Australians, by pointing out problems other Muslim women suffer in Saudi Arabia and some other nations that are, pointedly, not Australia and are thus, not actually relevant to the article.

That is a deflection.

Further, you use those abuses to characterize the religion as a whole, and thus all 1.7 billion adherents of that religion by proxy. This litany of "why muslims are fucking awful" is exactly what these bastards in Australia use to justify their abuses against Muslim women there. You are participating in the same.

That is a justification

Your posts are no fucking different than if you had come into a thread about Ferguson, talking about conditions in Congo and the black crime rate.

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #83)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:27 PM

84. i know exactly what i posted and not once was there any sort of justification

you read in exactly what you wanted to read.

of course, that is about par... making shit up out of whole-cloth...

sP

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Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #84)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:29 PM

86. I read exactly what you posted

 

You are deflecting from the abuse of women in Australia and then trying to justify the actions of their abusers by dehumanizing the victims. Which is about on par with the rest of the black-shirt contingent on DU.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #34)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:52 AM

48. Pointing out the plight

of women in Muslim countries is RW?
Tell that to Malala Yousafzai.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #34)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:57 AM

53. Criticizing the religion itself, pointing out its barbaric tenets

, and explaining the penalties for apostasy are not examples of Islamophobia. It is simply speaking critical truths about a set of cruel, misogynistic ideas. We're critical of the Christians who are cruel and misogynistic as well. Just because the right wing is also harshly critical of Islam doesn't mean we shouldn't be.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #53)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:02 PM

69. BRAVO!!!

 



Wish I could rec this post a thousand times. Truth is truth.

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Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #53)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:12 PM

79. Except when all you know about someone is that htey are Muslim...

 

You end up characterizing that person (or 1.7 billion people) according to what you imagine you know of Islam. Most of which is being delivered to you from heavily skewed, biased sources that are profiting from feeding reactionary impulses.

So you tell me. Islam is fucking horrible in all ways according to you. How many millions of people need to be eradicated, in order to stamp this hideous ideology from existence, and scare the remainder into the arms of some other faith? 6 million didn't work the last time christians tried to exterminate a religion. maybe aim for 12 million? 30 million?

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Response to Scootaloo (Reply #79)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 04:01 PM

96. get a grip.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #34)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 11:25 AM

58. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" is a ridiculous simplistic notion. And wrong.

As a strong supporter of women and a secular society, Republicans are my adversaries. Organized religion is as well. Islam is generally an extreme example of misogyny. And I, for one, won't hold back on criticizing it just because the RW does.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #34)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:41 PM

72. The bigotry is pretty disgusting. People respond to an article about the victims of anti-Muslim

bigotry by...talking about how horrible Islam is.

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Response to Chathamization (Reply #72)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 06:53 PM

97. It's just like if someone were to post about antisemitic attacks in a Western country

And practically all the responses were about Israel's terrible behavior, the misogyny in ultra Orthodox Judaism, and about how terrible Judaism is for being a religion.

Only difference is that those posts would certainly get hidden.

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #97)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 03:13 AM

107. You got one part right.

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Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #107)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 07:23 PM

116. Lol.

 

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Response to Crunchy Frog (Reply #34)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:42 PM

73. I don't have the links, but I *do* recall hearing here that no woman could possibly *choose*

to be a Muslim back in '04, and Euston Manifesto types saying we were bringing civilization to the benighted Iraqis (and Afghans, though that theater of war was utterly ignored then--it comes and goes in waves)
thing is, we had cameras on the ground showing their whole worldview was based on lies

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:55 AM

51. This isn't just a problem for the Muslim women, it is a problem for Australia.

Such racism won't be contained to women with hijabs, even if they are bearing the brunt of it now. Anyone who is different from the accepted norm is in danger when bigots get going. And with Australia's history of race problems, it certainly is a big danger sign Australians should heed.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 01:54 PM

67. Agreed, thanks for the article. K&R

 

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:20 PM

70. WTF? Who does this sort of thing?

the crowds started to abuse them and shout insults


Fucking fuck.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #70)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:54 PM

76. Who does that sort of thing?

Cowards.

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Response to arthritisR_US (Reply #76)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:02 PM

77. Meaningless insult.

Why not just say "distasteful people," or "those I don't care for?" Pretty much means the same thing as "coward."

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #77)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 01:47 AM

100. Wrong, going after women is cowardice. nt

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #70)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 02:03 AM

101. it is very disturbing behavior

not acceptable

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 02:46 PM

74. Here's an article about Australia's intense wave of anti gay attacks, 1985-1999. At least 50 dead.

 

"Piece by piece, month by month, the map of Sydney's greatest unsolved and unacknowledged crime wave has taken shape. What that map belatedly reveals is that thousands of men were stalked, savagely assaulted and, in at least 50 cases, murdered.

Mostly it was groups who preyed upon these men and they often brought implements for violence, sometimes knives, sometimes tools of their trades. Among the weapons used were bags of drill bits, claw hooks and iron bars. The preferred footwear was workmen's boots, good for kicking.

They hunted for a certain kind of victim, on thousands of outings, across different parts of Sydney. The police were oblivious. They remain oblivious to the scale of what they missed."
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/comment/gay-hate-the-shameful-crime-wave-20130303-2fe9w.html

It's all very charming stuff. I would suggest that the Muslim community in Australia might benefit from talking to other groups that have suffered criminal attacks and harassment and indifferent law.


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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #74)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:49 PM

92. I've read about that before. Really horrific stuff.

And it makes me wonder if the so-called First World Nations are really so civilized after all.

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Response to Bluenorthwest (Reply #74)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 03:24 AM

109. Thanks for posting that article...

What happened was really horrific. When it comes to minority community groups in Australia, they do appear to be supportive of each other (not sure about back when those murders and bashings were happening). Earlier this year there was an attack on a group of Jews and amongst the community leaders who spoke out against the attack were Muslim leaders. Which makes sense. If they all work together and support each other, then at least it's not a splintered bunch of minority groups all under attack.

I think the antidote to bigoted attacks on minority groups is education. Unfortunately with our current RW prime minister and a govt that has more than a few all-rounder bigoted types, there's not much chance of it being promoted from the top and will have to be grass roots...

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 03:31 PM

88. They really do get it from all sides, so to speak.

And I don't know what to make of posts saying "So? What the Muslims do to them is worse!" As if that in any way excuses or mitigates certain Australians being bigoted assholes.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sat Oct 11, 2014, 10:19 PM

99. in the US it's Sikh Men

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 05:00 AM

111. The fearmongering about ISIS was bound to bring out reactionaries...

with the MSM pounding the airwaves, daily, on this new improved YouTube "terror" and governments conducting raids all over the world to root out such "barbarians" (didn't Australia have one recently, breaking down doors in the night?)...it's a sad result that anyone's chosen spirituality or even the scarf they wear could leave them vulnerable to attack.

Civil rights in nations who claim to hold such things in high regard become the real casualties.

When I was a kid, living in an area that had many who practiced an old order Christian sect, an especially younger girl in my school made the decision to get baptized and become a member of her family's religion. The gossip swirled around and my school became an unusually hostile environment for that fourteen year old, mainly because others of her church never chose to don the bonnet until they were married and out of school. She was smart, respected, and a good friend to quite a few of us, so we got together one Friday evening under the bleachers at a football game and plotted a response to the hateful bigotry she was suffering. Come Monday morning, probably half of the girls in that school walked in wearing their own "borrowed" bonnets and we literally dared anyone to mock us or dish out any of the kerap that our friend had experienced for her choice. It took about a week but our method worked, opening minds, and the girl got her education wearing the garb of her religion, free of most of the previous discrimination, and she graduated as the salutatorian of her class.

I still have the little white bonnet that my best friend lent me for that solidarity protest fifty years ago.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 05:33 AM

112. I've yet to meet an Islamic woman that did not possess daggers in their tongue.

I'm fairly sure they don't need you.

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Response to Violet_Crumble (Original post)

Sun Oct 12, 2014, 07:36 PM

117. yes, which is why i dont believe islamaphobia comes from a desire to protect muslim women

 

its just another form of racism/bigotry

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