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redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 10:59 AM Oct 2014

On "Christianity vs. Islam" and why I can't stand white "Islam critics".

Simply put: If one starts from the (questionable) premise that it is possible to judge entire cultural blocks as a whole then the Islamic world has a long way to go to even come close to the body count that the "Christian Occident" has produced in the last century alone.

Aside from the fact that the "Christian Occident" played a crucial role in creating the conditions (economic and otherwise) that lead to the rise of radical Islam, nothing in the Islamic world ever came close to the Holocaust, carpet bombing of cities, dropping of nuclear bombs or use of napalm.

In my opinion most of goes under "Islam criticism" is simply an attempt at deflection. There is no question that the "white Christian man" is the champion of atrocities of the past century by a long shot.

19 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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On "Christianity vs. Islam" and why I can't stand white "Islam critics". (Original Post) redgreenandblue Oct 2014 OP
Sorry, but I'm not going to hold back from criticizing this kind of thing: Nye Bevan Oct 2014 #1
Well, the Moorish conquest of Spain did happen shenmue Oct 2014 #2
And during which, unlike the Inquisition after, Christians and Jews were tolerated jberryhill Oct 2014 #5
I can't change history so it's irrelevant FLPanhandle Oct 2014 #3
So therefore I can't criticize and condemn Islamic fundamentalism? Throd Oct 2014 #4
Not without devoting equal time to condemning Christianity. Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #13
"....the Holocaust, carpet bombing of cities, dropping of nuclear bombs or use of napalm...." WillowTree Oct 2014 #6
Irrelevant. Religion is as good an excuse as any other. redgreenandblue Oct 2014 #9
Doesn't that sort of collapse your examples, then, if not your entire argument? Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #11
what about yellow snooper2 Oct 2014 #12
So religion is irrelevant AND you blame it? n/t hughee99 Oct 2014 #14
Then why did you feel it appropriate to construct the analogy? sibelian Oct 2014 #18
+1 R.Quinn Oct 2014 #10
Some of us though live in the present. whatthehey Oct 2014 #7
the key word being 'deflection' nt Dreamer Tatum Oct 2014 #8
Ya know, I'll criticize whoever I think worth criticism. I freaking HATE hair shirt politics. Adrahil Oct 2014 #15
It is one thing to criticize something, it is another to sit on a high horse. redgreenandblue Oct 2014 #16
I'll grant that in theory.... Adrahil Oct 2014 #17
What is the substance of this difference? sibelian Oct 2014 #19

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
1. Sorry, but I'm not going to hold back from criticizing this kind of thing:
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 11:14 AM
Oct 2014
The traditional schools of Islamic law based on Qur'anic verses and hadith consider homosexual acts a punishable crime and a sin, and influenced by Islamic scholars such as Imam Malik and Imam Shafi.[1] The Qur'an cites the story of the "people of Lot" (also known as the people of Sodom and Gomorrah), destroyed by the wrath of God because they engaged in "lustful" carnal acts between men.

....

Today in most of the Islamic world homosexuality is not socially or legally accepted. In these countries, Afghanistan, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, the UAE, and Yemen, homosexual activity carries the death penalty.

....

With few exceptions all scholars of Sharia, or Islamic law, interpret homosexual activity as a punishable offence as well as a sin. There is no specific punishment prescribed, however, and this is usually left to the discretion of the local authorities on Islam.

....

Despite the formal disapproval of religious authority, the segregation of women in Muslim societies and the strong emphasis on male virility leads adolescent males and unmarried young men to seek sexual outlets with boys younger than themselves—in one study in Morocco, with boys in the age-range 7 to 13.[40] Men have sex with other males so long as they are the penetrators and their partners are boys, or in some cases effeminate men.[41] Liwat is regarded as a temptation,[42] and anal intercourse is not seen as repulsively unnatural so much as dangerously attractive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_in_Islam


It's not a competition. You can be critical of the Westboro Baptist Church, and sex abuse in the Catholic Church, and Christian fundamentalists who shoot abortion doctors, AND the backward and barbaric aspects of Islam, all at the same time.


shenmue

(38,497 posts)
2. Well, the Moorish conquest of Spain did happen
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 11:21 AM
Oct 2014

whether anyone likes to remember it or not.

Not every Muslim leader in history was a misunderstood cuddly bunny.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
5. And during which, unlike the Inquisition after, Christians and Jews were tolerated
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 11:31 AM
Oct 2014

Spain was no picnic after the re-conquest either.

FLPanhandle

(7,107 posts)
3. I can't change history so it's irrelevant
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 11:25 AM
Oct 2014

I can complain about things happening right now though and work to change it.

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
13. Not without devoting equal time to condemning Christianity.
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 11:47 AM
Oct 2014

Because let's face it, worse than disregarding a group that stands diametrically and murderously opposed to everything progressives believe is appearing to agree for one scant moment with someone whose values you do not share 100%.

WillowTree

(5,325 posts)
6. "....the Holocaust, carpet bombing of cities, dropping of nuclear bombs or use of napalm...."
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 11:32 AM
Oct 2014

Which of those were done in the name of Christianity?

I'll save you the trouble of looking it up. The answer is "None".

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
9. Irrelevant. Religion is as good an excuse as any other.
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 11:37 AM
Oct 2014

Wars are fought for power and resources. Relgion or nationhood are simply means to an end.

Dreamer Tatum

(10,926 posts)
11. Doesn't that sort of collapse your examples, then, if not your entire argument?
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 11:43 AM
Oct 2014

It's gotten stupid, the intellectual cowardice of people like yourself, who see threats and atrocities
by Islamists, and respond with moral equivalence lest someone think you're uncool and right wing.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
18. Then why did you feel it appropriate to construct the analogy?
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 12:39 PM
Oct 2014

You've done exactly what you're accusing your target of.

whatthehey

(3,660 posts)
7. Some of us though live in the present.
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 11:35 AM
Oct 2014

and think that any lunacy can be questioned and criticized, without having to list every other historical lunacy first.

"He started it weeks ago!" should stay on the playground.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
15. Ya know, I'll criticize whoever I think worth criticism. I freaking HATE hair shirt politics.
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 12:00 PM
Oct 2014

I believe in white privilege. But white guilt will not stop me from criticizing people of color who I think deserve it.

Also, I'm an atheist. I'm pretty critical of religion in general.

redgreenandblue

(2,088 posts)
16. It is one thing to criticize something, it is another to sit on a high horse.
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 12:02 PM
Oct 2014

Unfortunately far too often people do the later, who really aren't in a position to.

 

Adrahil

(13,340 posts)
17. I'll grant that in theory....
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 12:35 PM
Oct 2014

... but your criticism was directly at whites with only minor qualification. It doesn't happen TOO often, but it does happen in "progressive" circles where I am told I have no right to speak as a straight white man. I freely admit that straight white men have oppressed many for a long time. But I refuse to allow myself to be oppressed on their behalf. I wish to work with my brothers and sisters as a full partner, though a partner who listens to their needs and wants and expresses, but does not impose, my own opinions.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
19. What is the substance of this difference?
Fri Oct 10, 2014, 12:40 PM
Oct 2014

What differentiates legitimate criticism from being on a high horse? What actual standards are you applying here?
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