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Wed Oct 8, 2014, 09:46 AM

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This message was self-deleted by its author (mopinko) on Wed Oct 8, 2014, 07:04 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
mopinko Oct 2014 OP
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #1
yeoman6987 Oct 2014 #2
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #3
yeoman6987 Oct 2014 #7
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #10
CreekDog Oct 2014 #96
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #98
former9thward Oct 2014 #13
yeoman6987 Oct 2014 #18
former9thward Oct 2014 #21
truedelphi Oct 2014 #25
Hestia Oct 2014 #59
SheilaT Oct 2014 #16
CreekDog Oct 2014 #95
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #97
snooper2 Oct 2014 #6
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #12
former9thward Oct 2014 #14
snooper2 Oct 2014 #15
former9thward Oct 2014 #17
Jamastiene Oct 2014 #56
truedelphi Oct 2014 #27
Autumn Oct 2014 #45
Hestia Oct 2014 #64
Autumn Oct 2014 #65
RKP5637 Oct 2014 #5
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #8
RKP5637 Oct 2014 #11
JimDandy Oct 2014 #53
Warpy Oct 2014 #77
leftyladyfrommo Oct 2014 #4
mopinko Oct 2014 #9
KittyWampus Oct 2014 #30
JimDandy Oct 2014 #61
mopinko Oct 2014 #102
CreekDog Oct 2014 #99
yellowcanine Oct 2014 #67
Autumn Oct 2014 #19
mopinko Oct 2014 #23
Autumn Oct 2014 #24
mopinko Oct 2014 #37
Autumn Oct 2014 #39
mopinko Oct 2014 #49
Autumn Oct 2014 #50
CreekDog Oct 2014 #100
Jamastiene Oct 2014 #57
mopinko Oct 2014 #74
Eleanors38 Oct 2014 #86
KittyWampus Oct 2014 #29
mopinko Oct 2014 #36
shireen Oct 2014 #62
shireen Oct 2014 #58
Autumn Oct 2014 #71
mopinko Oct 2014 #81
Autumn Oct 2014 #85
lumberjack_jeff Oct 2014 #93
surrealAmerican Oct 2014 #20
mopinko Oct 2014 #22
surrealAmerican Oct 2014 #31
mopinko Oct 2014 #35
surrealAmerican Oct 2014 #41
mopinko Oct 2014 #43
surrealAmerican Oct 2014 #52
mopinko Oct 2014 #82
CreekDog Oct 2014 #73
jberryhill Oct 2014 #26
Gormy Cuss Oct 2014 #33
KittyWampus Oct 2014 #28
mopinko Oct 2014 #38
Alittleliberal Oct 2014 #32
mopinko Oct 2014 #34
Gormy Cuss Oct 2014 #40
mopinko Oct 2014 #46
Gormy Cuss Oct 2014 #54
Hestia Oct 2014 #69
mopinko Oct 2014 #72
Lancero Oct 2014 #84
mopinko Oct 2014 #88
CreekDog Oct 2014 #101
mopinko Oct 2014 #51
Gormy Cuss Oct 2014 #55
mopinko Oct 2014 #80
H2O Man Oct 2014 #42
mopinko Oct 2014 #47
KamaAina Oct 2014 #44
mopinko Oct 2014 #48
MineralMan Oct 2014 #60
shireen Oct 2014 #68
MineralMan Oct 2014 #70
mopinko Oct 2014 #78
MineralMan Oct 2014 #83
mopinko Oct 2014 #92
Jamastiene Oct 2014 #63
mopinko Oct 2014 #89
yellowcanine Oct 2014 #66
mopinko Oct 2014 #75
notrightatall Oct 2014 #76
mopinko Oct 2014 #79
Tsiyu Oct 2014 #87
Phentex Oct 2014 #90
mopinko Oct 2014 #91
LeftyMom Oct 2014 #94
mopinko Oct 2014 #103
LeftyMom Oct 2014 #104
mopinko Oct 2014 #105

Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 09:50 AM

1. There are a great many problems with building codes and their enforcement. n/t

 

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 09:56 AM

2. Did she get the necessary permits and other things needed

 

Or did she just start digging? Little sympathy if latter.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:00 AM

3. If, in your world, you need the permission of the local government to plant a tomato in your yard...

 

... I feel badly for you.

Urban gardening is one of the few unambiguously good things we can do.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:03 AM

7. I could care less

 

I am just being factual as always.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:07 AM

10. I accept that the expression of your opinion is factual. n/t

 

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:48 PM

96. your calling what she did "planting a tomato" is the opposite of factual

so don't lecture.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #96)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:49 PM

98. Have I triggered the fan club notification system? n/t

 

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:25 AM

13. You don't know Chicago.

Impossible to get the permits. If the city wants to screw with you they will always find something wrong.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:40 AM

18. Why is it all blue areas are screwing with residence?

 

It was supposed to be better without Republican leadership in these large cities.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #18)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 11:15 AM

21. There has not been a Republican in Chicago in decades.

Except in the far NW section of the city, 41st ward, which is filled with police and firemen and which looks like a leafy suburb compared to the rest of the city.

All the aldermen owe their positions to the Machine and and from there corruption at all levels flows. Yes, there are a few progressive alderman that the Machine tolerates but they are few in number.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #21)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 12:16 PM

25. Corruption -- one of thy many names is

Chicago.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:36 PM

59. Did you see this dollar amount to the city?

The city has collected more than $19.5 million in fines since 2009 from property owners who have violated the ordinance governing weed growth.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:32 AM

16. Planting a tomato in your back yard is one thing.

 

Buying a lot and making an urban garden is quite another. And yeah, some city codes are truly stupid, but you don't get rid of them by not bothering to learn what they are when you do something like this.

I'm reminded of watching one of the home renovation shows a few years back, and the person from the show who was frequently visiting the site to monitor progress, kept on telling the renovator that he needed to pull permits. Guy didn't bother to, and the next thing he knew he was shut down for not pulling the permits. Gee.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:47 PM

95. you're saying she just planted a tomato?

uh huh.

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Response to CreekDog (Reply #95)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:48 PM

97. I think she shouldn't need "necessary permits and other things" for a garden.

 

... But she shouldn't get an exemption for a junk car either.

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Response to yeoman6987 (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:01 AM

6. Oh I doubt people will read the whole article, I'm halfway down and hit this tidbit

 


Mo Cahill's old Chevy truck doubles as a chicken coop.


and there is this-

The report also instructs Cahill to "remove debris from demolition" from the farm, including piles of dirt, logs, wood and construction debris.

The department says the debris harbors rats.

But the piled dirt and organic debris was part of a farming technique to create healthy top soil, she said, and had produced crops all summer long, including 150 pounds of tomatoes.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:15 AM

12. I admit, "truck as chicken coop" is probably not good community relations in an urban setting. n/t

 

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:27 AM

14. Chicago harbors rats.

If that was the criteria the whole city would be shut down. When the city wants to screw with you they will always find something wrong. When it was an empty lot full of debris the city had no problem with it.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:32 AM

15. now it is a lot of plants growing around debris, doesn't sound like the city is asking for much

 

Half of the citations are against the flats she owns, rusting gutters, put numbers on your door, fix railing that is falling down. Plus she is just letting all the weeds grow wild that have "flowers".

Since she is giving the food away for free it shouldn't be a big deal for her neighbors to jump in and clean the place up. My neighbor lost a huge tree in last winters ice storm and there were six different neighbors including myself with chain saws cleaning up the mess.


Easy Peasy! Get to work!

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #15)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:39 AM

17. In Chicago nothing is easy.

The inspectors want bribes, the people giving out permits want bribes and most important the alderman wants 'contributions'. The slumlords do all those things and never have to worry about anything.

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Response to former9thward (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:24 PM

56. Excellent point.

Most cities, regardless of size, harbor rats. They are anywhere humans are. If a city wants to screw someone, they can use any excuse they can find. They have lots of obscure laws they can bring up too, if they really want to screw someone.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 12:20 PM

27. All this is sad.

When my landlord pulled the plug on "neighbors" visiting our yard and taking off with loads of our blackberries, he soon found that someone had informed the Fire Department that the forty year old plum tree and its compost pile was a fire hazard. (The tree had an enromous compost pile, well watered all eyar long, at the base of its trunk.)

All of who lived on the property waitied for the Fire Department officials to show upand tell us to get rid of the compost pile.

Finally the fire marshall showed up, ran his hand through several layers of the compost pile, wiped his hand on a rag, smiled and said, "Gosh, what a beautiful plum tree - and with a nourishing compost pile likethis one, it is no wonder."

And then he went on his way.

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:43 PM

45. It takes quite a while for logs or two x fours or any lumber to decompose into compostable material

unless you use a large chipper. In any city, piles of stuff like that is an eyesore dirt is one thing the rest, yeah I could see that harboring rats

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Response to Autumn (Reply #45)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:41 PM

64. That's what our nurseries down here look like. They are kinda just a tent over some property

with a chain link around it. It looks normal - maybe the front should be spruced up and some flowers planted out there, "good neighbor" vibes and all. But the back looks like any ol' garden.

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Response to Hestia (Reply #64)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:47 PM

65. For some reason I couldn't get to the back of it on Google Earth.

It does need to be spruced up though, it looks like a nice neighborhood and I could understand if the neighbors complained. I love to garden though so I would just go in and see if I could help.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:00 AM

5. And some of those codes are done to line a city's pockets with permitting cash and

their buddies with cash. And, some inspectors are authoritarians and control freaks out to have a good time of it all. I'm not saying all building codes and inspectors are bad, just that in some cases there is more to it than safety, etc., etc.
I've also seen absolute SH** buildings go up because the builder was buddies with the old boys club.

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Response to RKP5637 (Reply #5)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:05 AM

8. Did you know that the building code itself is copyright protected?

 

Manufactures of widgets sit on the code council to get their widgets made mandatory (see Simpson Strong-Tie). The code council is a private consortium and the book of conclusions they reach is a prohibitively expensive copyrighted work (the local government can't reproduce it) and is the law that governments adopt by reference.

It's the law. No it's not on the web and no, I can't give you a copy. Your fine for violating it is $800, you can pay by check or cash.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #8)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:08 AM

11. I never cease to be amazed. So much is sooooo repressive. n/t

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #8)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:53 PM

53. Court have ruled these 'copyrighted' codes

are public property as long as they are incorporated into the municipal code and titled within a city's code, as that city's code instead of with the code council's title. The council's code comments can't be included though, because the courts have ruled that they are an interpretation of the code and therefore a private work product. And that is maddening because cities, of course, look to those comments to enforce the code.

My muncipality tried to sell the international code book to me saying it wasn't online (it was). They also didn't have it in the local library, which was a requirement for all the codes that are included by reference in the city's municipal ccode. You can bet I insisted that a copy get in the library and they then complied.

It's a lot of work to keep just our cities doing what they are required to do, let alone county, state and national governments.

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Response to lumberjack_jeff (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:44 PM

77. Yeah, especially when some fat cat developer wants the lot

so another ugly yuppie warren can go up.

If she's got chickens, I can see their point. When my next door neighbor moved and took her chickens with her, I had an incredible rodent migration into my house. Backyard chickens are all well and good, but their feed attracts rodents. Lots of rodents. And they grow fat and fearless.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:00 AM

4. I'm all for urban farms.

I don't like grass lawns. Urban farms are much more attractive.

I don't know if urban farms are allowed in KC or not. I know there are urban lots where people all go together are raise vegetables and things.

If it is against city codes then you need to get lots of people to sign petitions and speak out on the news. Lots of times they will make exceptions for something like that.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:07 AM

9. thing is its not only not against code, we are supposed to be the greenest city in the country.

this is supposed to be POLICY. urban farms are encouraged. there is a new farm belt, an area set aside for farming, with a daily market, and on and on.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 12:37 PM

30. So fix the issues and be done with it. I read the article and it can all be dealt with

 

relatively easily.

Fix the issues, get the inspector in and then wait til next year.

Cause I do remember your thread about reporting a tenant who was neglecting their children. So if this is retaliation, it won't happen next year.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #30)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:39 PM

61. That's what I'm also thinking is what might have brought the city down on her. n/t

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #30)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 07:00 PM

102. fine, you had your say.

piss on a fellow member. enough already.
i cant fix things that dont exist.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #9)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:53 PM

99. does *any* of the chicken crap you apply to your land end up in city sewers?

ANY? what systems do you have that ensure that?

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:51 PM

67. Me too, but this isn't one. More like a dump.

And when she got cited for it she decided it was a "farm." Sorry but that is what it looks like to me.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:44 AM

19. Love the urban farming. So much better than a weed filled empty lot,

but build a real chicken coop. The truck is an eyesore. It's sad they are giving you such a hard time.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 11:21 AM

23. no, the truck is a fantastic coop.

it is actually nearly rodent and predator proof. a wooden coop on the ground is neearly indefensible in the city.
and like everything else here, you either love it or hate it, and i get a ton of love. besides, it sits in my back yard, it is not rotting or anything. i dont know why it is anybody else's business.
it is upcycling, and the biggest thing we are trying to do here is not only be sustainable, but help others do the same. there is a long tradition of using old vehicles to house chickens. not something i dreamed up to offend my neighbors.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #23)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 12:10 PM

24. I have coyotes, skunks, racoons, fox, snakes, hawks and falcons.

My chicken coop is well built and I have never lost a chicken when they are roosting or laying in it. The city seems to object to the truck and getting rid of that is one less issue for them to complain about.
You can walk right next to my chicken coop and smell nothing stick your head inside and that's when you smell it and even then it smalls like chicken, straw and hay. I agree with you on the flowering weeds, some of them have nice blooms and I water them

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Response to Autumn (Reply #24)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:32 PM

37. you can't smell my coop, either.

and it doesnt get much more "well built" than a chevy truck.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #37)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:35 PM

39. I'm sure it is well built, but your city objects to it and calles it an abandoned vcehicle.

I have never lived in a city where junk vehicles were acceptable. Good luck with your fight, sounds like you need it.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #39)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:48 PM

49. it is not "junk"

it has very little rust, and has air in the tires.
it is also not particularly visible.

i see no reason to cut down trees to please liars. the complaints are almost entirely delusional.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #49)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:50 PM

50. Good luck with your fight and keep us posted.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #49)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:55 PM

100. did you properly drain all fluids from the truck and dispose of them legally?

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Response to mopinko (Reply #37)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:28 PM

57. Claim the truck is a person.

It is built by a corporation and corporations are people now.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #57)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:39 PM

74. hey. i think i will try that.

never did give the truck a name. i will have to think of one.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #57)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 04:23 PM

86. Get a "coupe" instead of a sedan. Problem solved.

 

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Response to mopinko (Reply #23)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 12:35 PM

29. Several sympathetic DU'ers have suggested getting rid of the pick-up eyesore and building

 

a real coop. Including me.

So maybe, just maybe, you actually are not helping yourself in this situation.

A little give and take might help you.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #29)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:31 PM

36. since none of you have seen it, i will just ignore that advice.

there is nothing improper about it. it is a fine coop, and the complaint is bullshit.
thanks for all your support.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #29)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:39 PM

62. i've seen photos on her farm FB page

It is not an eyesore. It's a neat little truck that's been well-configured for the hens. It looks good. There is no reason to get rid of it.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:36 PM

58. you've not seen that chicken coop

It's not an eysore. It's whimsically delightful. Mopinko posted photos on the farm's FB page. It is thoughtfully configured as a coop. I love it.

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Response to shireen (Reply #58)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:59 PM

71. I haven't seen the FB page so I have no idea what the coop is like. Just that the city objects to it

and I know here if a vehicle isn't currently registered and plated it's considered a junk vehicle.

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Response to Autumn (Reply #71)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:50 PM

81. well then maybe you should reserve judgement.

follow the sig link. it is all right there.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #81)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 04:05 PM

85. You posted the article and there's a picture of it at the link

so yeah I'll offer my opinion. Your city calls it a junk vehicle, I agree with them. If I were a neighbor and had to look at an eyesore like that I would complain, and that's my opinion after looking at the truck pictures in the album in your link. I was on your side until I saw the truck.

I see what you are using the logs for and I do like that.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #81)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:24 PM

93. I saw the page, and the article. I think what you are doing is important.

 

This year our garden produced
146 pints of green beans (and still growing)
70 pounds of acorn squash
30 pounds of broccoli (and still growing)
25 pounds of cauliflower
35 pounds of raspberries (and still growing)
35 pounds of strawberries (and still growing)
60 pounds of tomatoes
10 pounds of peppers (jalapeno and hungarian wax)
10 pounds of peas
80 pounds of zucchini
50 pounds of cucumbers
50 pounds of cabbage
135 lbs of potatoes and
plenty of salad greens
We still haven't yet harvested beets, carrots or parsnips

I live way the hell out in rural country. It's a seven mile drive to the nearest candy bar. The neighbors live in cargo containers, single-wide mobile homes, use toilets as "decor", shoot guns, (probably) cook meth, ride horses and dirt bikes and frequently live like caricatures of hillbillies.

None of them use cars as chicken coops because it would be considered tacky. From a practical perspective, a car has inadequate ventilation and zero ability to drain. If it smells (apparently the neighbors think it does) it is for these reasons. It's not compost if the chicken poop is anaerobic.

I think you shouldn't jeopardize the important thing you are doing over a junk suburban. Take the $200 that the scrapper will give you for it, and build a conventional coop.

IMHO.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 10:55 AM

20. In the article, it claims she could not get a "farm" exemption ...

... because she doesn't sell the produce. Could she perhaps sell a few apples to a friend, and thus meet the definition of a "farm"?

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #20)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 11:17 AM

22. no no. it's not an exemption.

actually, it is a whole new set of hoops to jump through.
i wont have enough to sell for a couple more years. but i could have the zoning change if i wanted.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #22)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 12:44 PM

31. It would seem like the zoning change would be a good place to start ...

... that, and building a proper chicken coop.
I was thinking more about a symbolic sale, but I don't know if that would matter.

It might be worth consulting a lawyer about what you need to do to keep the city off your back.

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #31)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:29 PM

35. i have a lawyer, and what are your credentials to decide what is proper?

jeebus.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #35)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:37 PM

41. I didn't intend to offend you, I'm sorry.

I don't have credentials. It's just that there are laws that concern what the city would consider "derelict vehicles", no matter what use you have for them. I think you would have a hard time convincing a judge that it needs to stay there.

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #41)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:41 PM

43. it isnt a vehicle.

it is a chicken coop. the fact that it used to be a vehicle has nothing to do with that.
and it isnt "derelict". it has fucking air in the tires. it has intact windows. it isnt even that rusty.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #43)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:51 PM

52. You've convinced me ...

... but it's not my opinion that matters. Do I think the city is being unreasonable? - yes. Do I think you'll be able to convince them? - probably not. You might want to fight them on this, or you might want to choose your battles.

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Response to surrealAmerican (Reply #52)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:51 PM

82. the outpouring from other gardeners and farmers tells me

that this is not my fight alone.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #43)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:39 PM

73. did you fully drain all the oil and other vehicle fluids?

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 12:17 PM

26. They are not nuts, they are fruits

"This is just nuts," said Mo Cahill, 60, standing among her apple, pear and plum trees, tomato plants and raspberry bushes"

I question her farming ability if that's what she think.s

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Response to jberryhill (Reply #26)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:09 PM

33. As if someone with your surname would know.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 12:28 PM

28. There is some serious stupid on the thread you link to. Mo, I hope you can make some changes

 

I would get rid of the pick up and look in to building maybe a portable chicken coop.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #28)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:33 PM

38. i'm not changing fucking anything.

the complaints are blatant lies.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 12:51 PM

32. Farming is dirty

I can't believe on a liberal site I'm hearing people bitch about urban farming. Ohh, it's an eyesore? It stinks? I'm sorry that you now have to know what it takes to produce the food you eat. Functional gardens don't have to be pretty. They have to produce food.

I also can't understand why people are harping on you for your recycled truck. Has anyone seen a fucking junkyard lately? Last year Americans decided they didn't want roughly 14 million cars. Does anyone know where all that metal, plastic and rubber go?

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Response to Alittleliberal (Reply #32)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:28 PM

34. thank you.

people who actually SEE the truck think it is extremely cool. and it is an incredibly secure and functional coop. better than any "normal" coop.
besides, this is an old tradition.

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Response to Alittleliberal (Reply #32)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:37 PM

40. And that's one reason why farming has been zoned out of high population density areas.

An urban farm by its very nature must mitigate negative impact on the surrounding community and that includes reducing odors and keeping it a bit tidier than a rural farm.

Urban gardening/farming means that one must live with zoning laws that aren't designed for low population density areas. One can work to change them, but in the meantime getting cited for violations is just something to be expected. I live in an area with fairly lax zoning for an urban area. I can have chickens on the property but I am responsible for making sure they're not a nuisance. That means no roosters, no strong odors, and I'm guessing no junk car as the structure unless it's concealed from view. Likewise, I can and do compost but am not allowed to do an open pile. I don't know what the OP's other violations were, but I'm not surprised that Chicago zoning calls both the truck coop and debris pile violations.

There are other zoning prohibitions for my area that limit what I can do on my lot, but it's up to me whether I try to conform or try to change the zoning, but flout the zoning, expect citations.

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #40)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:44 PM

46. except that those are lies. there is no odor. there is no debris.

there are hugelkultur raised bed. if it is a "debris pile" how do you explain 150 lb of tomatoes?
and the truck is in my backyard, not in view of jack shit. it isnt a "junk car". it isnt a car at all.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #46)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:02 PM

54. If it's lies, it should be easy enough to get rid of the code violations.

Last edited Wed Oct 8, 2014, 04:22 PM - Edit history (1)

Is hugelkultur legal in the city limits? If yes, does your bed conform to the zoning laws for hugelkultur? If the city code doesn't recognize hugelkultur as an acceptable practice, it doesn't matter what you call it, the city will view it as debris. As for the truck (which is a vehicle like a car, you know) it's not being used as a vehicle. As a coop it may be covered by code for appurtenant structures even though it has inflated tires.

I don't pretend to know the code in your city, but you were cited for seven violations so at least one qualified individual thinks your lot is nonconforming. I realize that bringing the lot and the structures up to code is a PITA and probably expensive, but as a property owner you are obligated to conform to the zoning laws or face the consequences. (and FWIW, I've been mad every time I had to spend the time and shell out more money to bring something up to code so I understand the frustration.)

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #54)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:57 PM

69. This sounds like harassment to the tune of hundreds and thousands of dollars. Unfortunately

it seems that the wrong toes were stepped on and now that is rearing it's ugly head simply because they can. I'd play nicer but that doesn't mean you have to give in. Just be approachable and see what you can do - hell, show some cleavage if you have to. There are many ways to fight fire with fire.

Can the city really come in like that give you a fine over a porch railing? We don't have such things down here, that I am aware of, but there are urban farms here in the city and they are highly respected and encouraged.

That pic isn't very good of the coop. I am not on your FB page, so it is hard to get vision of the coolness factor of your chicken coop.



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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #54)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:38 PM

72. the citations ranged from nit picking to just flat out lies.

ie- one cite said remove structures built without a permit. except there are no structures. another claimed stagnant water when it was just a puddle from the sprinklers. so, i dont know how to fix things that dont exist.

of the 18 counts on the house only 3 were legit. they are pretty small nits.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #46)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 04:00 PM

84. Depends on how the city defines junk car...

This is how my town defines a junk car - A junk car is a vehicle that is more then 3 years old, has extensive damage, and is inoperable.

In this case, extensive damage would refer to damage that prevents the car from being used as intended. A cars intended use is for transport.

So by how my town defines a junk car, the repurposed truck is a junker because it is A) more then three years old, B) Has extensive damage, and C) is inoperable.

The exact definition varies from city to city though, and some cities do have exceptions to it - Perhaps you could look into what Chicago uses to determine if a vehicle is a junker?

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Response to Lancero (Reply #84)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 04:57 PM

88. its a perfectly operable chicken coop.

and it has very little rust for a 20 year old vehicle. it even has air in the tires.
and it isnt sitting on the street. or even where it is particularly visible to anyone.

i dont really care how they define cars. it isnt a car anymore.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #46)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:59 PM

101. where does runoff from your property go?

you said you're fertilizing.

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #40)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:51 PM

51. and the city's official policy is to encourage farming and gardening.

they are giving away vacant lots so that people will farm them. if i wanted the zoning changed to farming, i could do that. it comes with its own grief, and i am not at the point where i am producing enough for it to be a business.
when that time comes, i intend to do that. but in the meantime i am not flouting jack shit. i am well within my rights.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #51)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:04 PM

55. So why haven't you changed the zoning to farming?

Wouldn't that make more sense than racking up zoning violations?

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Response to Gormy Cuss (Reply #55)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:48 PM

80. it comes with its own hassles.

and i dont have to. i am not violating shit.

it wont be a fully functioning farm for a couple more years at least.
the soil was poor, and we had a huge hole to fill.
soil first, then food.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:41 PM

42. Fight the Good Fight.

If there is any way that I can assist you, please let me know.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #42)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:45 PM

47. thank you.

i am still hoping someone comes to their senses and it just goes away.
judging from this thread, tho, senses are hard to come by.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:43 PM

44. Take this viral

 

Your man Rahmbo will hate the bad publicity.

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #44)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 01:45 PM

48. i hope so.

but i wont be waiting by the phone.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:37 PM

60. Sorry you're having trouble with the city.

Since you posted the address of this vacant lot, I used Google Streetview to have a look. It does appear to be a bit out of character for the neighborhood. I think it's great to do urban farms, but neighbors are going to object to anything that seems out of character in the neighborhood, I'd think.

While your idea is a good one, I wonder if something more conventional would pass muster better with the city officials. I don't know, but things like an old pickup used as a chicken coop probably aren't the best way to avoid complaints from others living on that block. Does Chicago even allow chickens in residential neighborhoods?

I'm afraid that your efforts are likely not to be appreciated by everyone, and I imagine some neighbor has been complaining to the authorities. Life's complex in urban neighborhoods at times.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #60)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:52 PM

68. i've been following her farm on FB

Mo has gone out of her way to invite neighbors over to see the place, share produce, answer their questions. She's even had open house events for them that have gone well. From comments I've read, many neighbors appreciate what she's doing once they come to understand it.

This is really really sad. Mo is doing important work, and I wish the city could be a bit more accommodating with her startup farm.

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Response to shireen (Reply #68)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:57 PM

70. It only takes one neighbor who doesn't like it.

I live in an urban neighborhood in St. Paul, MN. I can tell you that you cannot get everyone on board with anything out of the ordinary in my neighborhood. Like I said, urban farming is a good thing, but it's going to get complained about if it doesn't fit into the neighborhood. I don't know about any Facebook page about this, but I wonder how many of those commenting there live on that block, really.

Cities run on rules. The rules may not always make sense, but the city generally enforces them when there are complaints by neighbors. That's the problem with doing unusual things in residential neighborhoods.

Maybe the answer is to get all of those friendly neighbors together, clean up that lot and farm it in a more conventional way as a neighborhood project. I get the alternative cultivation stuff, but that doesn't mean everyone thinks it's cool and innovative. For some, it's just an eyesore. Neighborhoods are not farms in rural areas. Do weird stuff and people will complain. It's guaranteed.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #70)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:45 PM

78. so i should let a few whiners run my life?

fuck that. i am not doing anything wrong.
and i should just tell all the folks that love it too bad, right?

and for the umpteenth time in this thread, it is not a fucking pick up truck.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #78)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:54 PM

83. I didn't say that in any way.

I said that it only takes one neighbor's complaint to get the city interested in your "farm."

I doubt if there's only one, really, in truth.

It's difficult to do something unusual in a residential neighborhood in a city without upsetting someone who lives nearby. Even building a fence around a yard can set someone off and get them to complain. Then, if you didn't get the requisite permit, the city can make you remove the fence or pay a large fine.

In cities, which always have the toughest restrictions on stuff, dotting is an crossing ts is always a good idea.

See, I don't mind your eclectic sort of gardening project. I wouldn't complain. But I'm not all of your neighbors. One of them, at least, did complain, and now you've got the city on your back. And once they drop by, all of the things you may have neglected on your properties become fodder for their workday.

As for it not being, as you say, a "fucking pick up truck," I'm afraid I can't see the connection. You have a vehicle as a chicken coop. It's unlikely that it meets Chicago's backyard chicken ordinance, if they even allow chickens. So, one more thing for them to put on the list.

Living outside of the norms is a good thing. We need more of it. But, when it calls attention to itself, it also may get unwanted attention. I'm afraid that you're unlikely to convert the city to your idea of what makes up an urban farm, really. Now that they have a list of "violations," about the only way you're going to get to farm that lot is to tear it all down and start over, once you get the other stuff they found cleared up. Stuff tends to multiply when people nose around.

You can get angry with me. I don't mind. But what I'm saying reflects the reality of doing unusual stuff in the middle of a city neighborhood. It rarely lasts long. Just one complaint and the fun's soon over.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #83)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:18 PM

92. what you are saying is full of supposition that does not happen to be true.

and the rest is "get in line" bullshit.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:40 PM

63. Question about the truck:

How did you turn it into a chicken coop? I wonder because where I live, it would be more like a chicken cooker. I have a neighbor who has about 6 or 7 cars in his backyard. You can't see them from the road, but as a neighbor, I can see them. They are all rusted and doing nothing really. It's nice to see someone try to do something nice with a piece of land and if what you are doing ends up with food coming from it, you must be doing something right. Best bet might be to move out of the city. Live somewhere where you can farm until your heart is content and not be hassled.

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Response to Jamastiene (Reply #63)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 05:06 PM

89. not goin nowhere. period.

if i aint free where i stand, nobody is free.

we gutted the mechanicals. the parts were all sold and are now in use.
we pulled out everything from the inside, lined the floor with 2 layers of 1/4' hardware cloth, and covered it with rolled rubber roofing that we burned down.
we covered the windows with hardware cloth, but they still go up and down fine, so climate control is one of its strong points.
we reinforced the few rusty spots, and plugged up holes, like the heat vents.
so far we have had one incursion of rodents, during the polar vortex. we found the hole, and corked it. end of rodents.

we put the seats back in, put baskets on one which they lay in. put more on the floor in the front.
we recycled a couple of old wooden ladders for roosts, putting them over the seats and in the back.

they are closed in safely at night, and i open a back door to let them out in the morning.

since the engine compartment is empty, we have a nice dry storage space for extra bedding, etc.

the tires still hold air, so it is dry and off the ground, so nothing can burrow in.

i really have never seen a safer, sounder coop.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 02:48 PM

66. This lady is not an "urban farmer"

She has a small flock of backyard chickens and some garden vegetables and a few fruit trees. She sells none of it. It is an insult to real farmers to call her garden a farm. No real farmer is going to house a flock of chickens in an old pickup truck. The place actually sounds like a dump, with only some of the citations relating to "farming" activities. Sorry but this is bs.

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Response to yellowcanine (Reply #66)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:42 PM

75. i dont sell anything because we are not that far along in the process.

this is only the 3rd year, and most of our efforts have been toward growing decent soil.
an urban farm and a country farm are not the same thing.

and it isnt a pick up truck. it is a painstakingly retrofitted chevy suburban.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #75)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:43 PM

76. picture, please.

 

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Response to notrightatall (Reply #76)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 03:46 PM

79. follow my sig link.

there at about 1000 pics.
there is an album called chicken coop that shows what we did to the truck to retrofit if for chickens.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 04:35 PM

87. You need Black Jesus


and some of his special tomato sauce



Sorry for the levity; couldn't resist. Black Jesus is having the same problem you are....

This totally sucks. I can't believe your neighbors would rather have a vacant lot than a thriving, productive food source right nearby.

People are idiots. Busy-body, ignorant, control freak idiots.



Good luck to you, mopinko

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 05:31 PM

90. I am not a farmer but...

I love the idea of the chicken coop in a truck!

We had neighbors who grew corn in their side yard and they got talked about but nobody reported anything. We don't have any sort of homeowners association. We had another lady who had bees and some neighbors did pitch a fit about that. I am of the live and let live variety and I like gardens of every kind. I am not overly fond of the totally manicured lawn for the sake of a lawn and I'd much prefer a neighbor with a yard like yours.

The house stuff? You admit you can fix those things, so I guess that's what ya gotta do.

But I hate busy body neighbors and rules for the sake of rules so I hope you can keep your "farm" as is. Good luck!

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Response to Phentex (Reply #90)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:10 PM

91. the house stuff was on the list.

a couple had already been repaired and the will do what i can about the rest. but there is not a person on this block, or for a couple of blocks around that has put more work into their house than me.
it is a 110 yo greystone, and i have done extensive rehab and refit. i wont say it is the nicest place around, but i seriously have done more with it than anyone around.

i dont really intend to change anything besides that, tho. the complaint goes from bogus to delusional.

thanks. and i really is a great coop. so many people do love it.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 06:46 PM

94. There are a ton of urban farms near me. They're great.

Even in their shabbiest offseason months they don't landscape with Home Depot buckets and abandoned vehicles. What an eyesore.

And more of the code violations were in your rental property. You need to fix that shit.

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Response to LeftyMom (Reply #94)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 07:01 PM

103. zero were in my rental property.

that is why my tenant had to complain about the farm. there was zero to report in the building.

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Response to mopinko (Reply #103)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 07:03 PM

104. Is this the tenant whose child you wanted to steal?

You're lucky she only called code enforcement.

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Response to mopinko (Original post)

Wed Oct 8, 2014, 07:04 PM

105. im going to delete this thread.

i wasnt expecting a whole lot of support, but i didnt expect to be quite this pissed on. and i didnt expect du'ers to go and piss on me on local boards.
i guess i should have.

this place has turned into a swamp. i really cannot imagine this reaction to having this story posted about a complete stranger here.

pat yourselves on the back, trolls. you win this round.
now piss off.

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