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Duncan now in critical condition (Original Post) cwydro Oct 2014 OP
any links? magical thyme Oct 2014 #1
I heard on MSNBC that he's been intubated. SunSeeker Oct 2014 #2
not necessarily unable to breathe. magical thyme Oct 2014 #5
Right, he can't breathe sufficiently by himself without assistance. SunSeeker Oct 2014 #15
agreed. this certainly is not a good sign. magical thyme Oct 2014 #18
Sacra also got a different experimental drug (not ZMapp). LisaL Oct 2014 #21
was that the drug from Canada? magical thyme Oct 2014 #29
I'm also worried about the cameraman Aerows Oct 2014 #40
he flies to Nebraska on Monday magical thyme Oct 2014 #41
Funny actually. cwydro Oct 2014 #42
wasn't there a lag time between when we first heard about Brantly and when he arrived? magical thyme Oct 2014 #43
here's confirmation that he's on a ventilator... magical thyme Oct 2014 #39
I actually heard on the radio. cwydro Oct 2014 #32
just found a link... magical thyme Oct 2014 #3
I hope he recovers Marrah_G Oct 2014 #4
no, there is no Zmapp left. magical thyme Oct 2014 #6
I hope so. At least his chances of survival are higher here Marrah_G Oct 2014 #8
there isn't, sadly TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #9
Yes- unfortunately Ebola only pops up rarely so opportunities to test treatments are rare Marrah_G Oct 2014 #12
I thought they were making it with blood or fluids of some sort from survivors TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #16
Its grown in tobacco plants. Marrah_G Oct 2014 #24
how interesting TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #28
Isn't the claim that Duncan started to develop symptoms within 7 days of helping the pg lady? Drayden Oct 2014 #7
Yes- The Daily show had an expert on the other night who talked about this Marrah_G Oct 2014 #10
it's 2 - 21 days with the average with this strain being 8 - 10 days TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #11
I read both of her parents are now hospitalized. Barack_America Oct 2014 #20
I wish the media did follow ups on stories TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #25
I believe it was reported her parents were also infected. LisaL Oct 2014 #23
And an awful article in my local paper (AP link I guess) cwydro Oct 2014 #38
Wait wut? She was 19 and had a 9 yr old daughter? n/t JimDandy Oct 2014 #60
when people develop symptoms depends on a number of variables magical thyme Oct 2014 #13
Observable symptoms seem to most often JimDandy Oct 2014 #63
oh crap TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #14
Thomas Eric Duncan has done America a favor... TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #17
Yeah, thanks for probably knowingly bringing Ebola to the US. LostInAnomie Oct 2014 #19
Patients who rode for two days in an ambulance after he used it are also LisaL Oct 2014 #22
I agree with this! Marrah_G Oct 2014 #26
Yet that favor will likely take more lives TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #27
There was always going to be... TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #30
i see it this way. now they are being cautious. and people are pissed that they do it by procedure seabeyond Oct 2014 #33
Dangerous infectious and contagious diseases... TeeYiYi Oct 2014 #36
Yup. nt cwydro Oct 2014 #37
LINK: Thomas Eric Duncan, Dallas Ebola Patient, Now In Critical Condition spanone Oct 2014 #31
So far, none of the individuals being monitored by health officials are showing any signs of Ebola. seabeyond Oct 2014 #34
Incubation period is up to 21 days. LisaL Oct 2014 #46
If course. I was clear to say at this point. Also tgat they are contained seabeyond Oct 2014 #47
Of course. I was clear to say at this point. Also tgat they are contained seabeyond Oct 2014 #48
It's been 10 days since he was admitted to the hospital. Most infected persons start to show signs morningfog Oct 2014 #66
And if I put my tin foil hat on... cwydro Oct 2014 #35
No, it would not. magical thyme Oct 2014 #44
Thank you cwydro Oct 2014 #45
believe it. magical thyme Oct 2014 #50
Sorry, but cwydro Oct 2014 #51
the government isn't treating the patient, doctors and nurses are magical thyme Oct 2014 #52
Hey, thank you magical cwydro Oct 2014 #57
if I hadn't wasted an entire day hanging out in DU I'd be feeling lost too... magical thyme Oct 2014 #58
I'm on your side. cwydro Oct 2014 #53
yup, I get it. magical thyme Oct 2014 #56
Was there someone expecting him NOT to die? He was basically "critical" when he was vomiting into WinkyDink Oct 2014 #49
I think he was expecting to 840high Oct 2014 #54
I've had that very sad feeling as well TorchTheWitch Oct 2014 #61
Well. He was "stable" before cwydro Oct 2014 #55
his condition has been serious and stable since Monday. magical thyme Oct 2014 #59
Scary horrid disease. nt cwydro Oct 2014 #64
And there you have it. It was rather predictable, IMO. WinkyDink Oct 2014 #65
Sigh! Catherine Vincent Oct 2014 #62
 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
1. any links?
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:33 PM
Oct 2014

I was looking for an update when I saw the ABC breaking news.

He had been upgraded to serious after being admitted critical, but then yesterday I read he was too weak to talk on the phone.

I remember reading about Brantly that condition goes up and down, sometimes quite rapidly. Later on the same day that he offered the 1st dose of Zmapp to Writebol he deteriorated rapidly and asked to have it after all, as he thought he was dying. He subsequently recovered much more quickly that Writebol. I'm thinking it may have to do with age and robustness of the immune system.

SunSeeker

(51,367 posts)
2. I heard on MSNBC that he's been intubated.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:48 PM
Oct 2014

Which means he can't breath on his own. Not looking good for him.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
5. not necessarily unable to breathe.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:52 PM
Oct 2014

inadequate breathing or inadequate gas transfer.

Per wiki, "Such patients, who may be awake and alert, are typically critically ill with a multisystem disease..."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracheal_intubation

SunSeeker

(51,367 posts)
15. Right, he can't breathe sufficiently by himself without assistance.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:06 PM
Oct 2014

Which is what I meant by he can't breathe on his own. However you describe it, it's not good. It means his condition is deteriorating.

But apparently patients go up and down with this virus, so there is still hope for him.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
18. agreed. this certainly is not a good sign.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:12 PM
Oct 2014

I've had a bad feeling about this all along.

Partly due to the delays in treatment, but also due to him being treated at a facility not specially equipped for this level of pathogen.

It is an extremely virulent disease and often even if you survive it can be with permanent organ damage. It may be hard to catch, but once you've got it the odds are against you.

We've been lucky until now thanks to Zmapp and then, when that ran out, that Brantly was able to donate blood to Sacra. And that as health care workers, they were already monitoring their temperatures and started treatment immediately.

I haven't seen any updates on the WHO patient that was shipped in last week or the week before.

They're hoping with top notch care to bring fatality levels down to 50%. That his care was delayed, first by him not going immediately for care when his first symptom appeared, and then by the hospital's mistake, is not good.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
29. was that the drug from Canada?
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:29 PM
Oct 2014

my memory is fuzzy now, but I sort of remember something being shipped...

Oh, wait, I remember now that somebody got a transfusion also from a recovered patient in the UK. Pooley, the UK nurse, flew to the US to give a transfusion to somebody here.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
43. wasn't there a lag time between when we first heard about Brantly and when he arrived?
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 09:25 PM
Oct 2014

I can't remember any more.

Although being a camera man you'd think they'd be all over it. On the other hand, isn't his whole team now in isolation? In which case, who's there to do the reporting?

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
39. here's confirmation that he's on a ventilator...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 07:33 PM
Oct 2014

Thomas Eric Duncan's nephew, Josephus Weeks, told NBC News earlier on Saturday that Duncan "is now on a ventilator."
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/health/Dallas-Ebola-Patient-on-Ventilator-Nephew-278116781.html

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
32. I actually heard on the radio.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 04:00 PM
Oct 2014

Listening to npr at the time. Just got home and looking for updates.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
3. just found a link...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:48 PM
Oct 2014

Dallas (CNN) -- [Breaking news alert, 2:27 p.m. ET]

Thomas Eric Duncan is now in critical condition suffering from Ebola at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, hospital spokeswoman Candace White said Saturday. Earlier, the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said he was in intensive care.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/04/health/ebola-us/index.html?hpt=hp_inthenews

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
4. I hope he recovers
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:51 PM
Oct 2014

I wonder if there is any Zmapp left to treat him with. I know they only had a small amount made because it had not had the chance to be tested yet. Unfortunately the drug takes a long time to make...

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
6. no, there is no Zmapp left.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:54 PM
Oct 2014

I'm wondering if one or another recovered patients in the US can give him a transfusion.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
8. I hope so. At least his chances of survival are higher here
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:58 PM
Oct 2014

Hopefully the world will wake up and give the UN the money it needs to help these countries with healthcare and water/sanitation. If the wealthy countries do not, then we do not at our own peril.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
9. there isn't, sadly
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:59 PM
Oct 2014

I remember reading recently that he wasn't being treated with it because there's none left. They only made a handful of doses anyway.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
12. Yes- unfortunately Ebola only pops up rarely so opportunities to test treatments are rare
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:04 PM
Oct 2014

Now that there are people to test on (lots of people) it's going to take a while to grow new plants that provide the drug. The good news is that it seems like maybe it will work. Just hard to really know without more test subjects.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
16. I thought they were making it with blood or fluids of some sort from survivors
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:08 PM
Oct 2014

It comes from some kind of plant?

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
28. how interesting
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:29 PM
Oct 2014

I wonder how they could have discovered that. Tobacco was always an old Native American cure for especially things like wounds. I don't know if it worked or not, but non-natives picked it up, and apparently it was used for a very long time.

 

Drayden

(146 posts)
7. Isn't the claim that Duncan started to develop symptoms within 7 days of helping the pg lady?
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 02:58 PM
Oct 2014

I understand the incubation period is up to 21 days, but I am thinking that timeframe is an abundance of caution, that most people who get it develop symptoms within 10 days of exposure. I believe it has been 10 days since Duncan developed symptoms and yet no one in his family, who were in close contact in a very small and crowded apartment with him as his disease progressed and who remained in the apt for days afterwards with his bedding have fallen ill, to my knowledge. This should set minds at ease that the disease is not as contagious as some have feared. I would think of they were going to catch it, his family members and housemates would have developed symptoms by now.

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
10. Yes- The Daily show had an expert on the other night who talked about this
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:01 PM
Oct 2014

Not everyone in a household will catch it and of those who do, they are always the ones with the very close contact while caring for the ill loved one.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
11. it's 2 - 21 days with the average with this strain being 8 - 10 days
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:03 PM
Oct 2014

The brother of the pregnant woman that he and Mr. Duncan helped to the hospital fell ill the same day Mr. Duncan did (though he was still in Liberia) and died in something like two days. I've wondered how the other people that were infected from her have been doing. Her father also helped to take her to the hospital, but nothing has been said about him or any of the others.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
25. I wish the media did follow ups on stories
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:23 PM
Oct 2014

Like all kinds of stories. But this especially bothers me not knowing since they named people and posted photos of some of them. Once I learn of a certain individual I just want to know how things go with them.

There was also a number of stories of people here being hospitalized with possible Ebola but never followed up on whether or not they had it. Now we know all those people didn't but only because Mr. Duncan is being proclaimed to be the first diagnosed with it here.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
38. And an awful article in my local paper (AP link I guess)
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 06:54 PM
Oct 2014

That her 9 year old daughter was wandering around crying piteously, but no one dared touch her to comfort her.

The stories from West Africa are just horrible and tragic.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
13. when people develop symptoms depends on a number of variables
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:05 PM
Oct 2014

so statistics become less relevent. Statistics are really only relevent when looking at large numbers of, in this case, exposed people.

At the individual level, the type of exposure, the amount of exposure, the viral levels in the fluids, number of times of exposure are one set of factors. The state of the exposed individual's immune system is another major factor.



JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
63. Observable symptoms seem to most often
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 11:55 PM
Oct 2014

appear 6-10 days after exposure (fever, headach, pain). The CDC though warns that symptoms can appear 2-21 days after exposure. Any symptoms at two days out probably are detectable only via a blood test. Someone may feel falsely reassured that they don't have Ebola if they aren't seeing/feeling any symptoms 2 days after exposure. I wish the CDC would be clearer by splittng out when non-observable vs observable symptoms are likely to appear.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
14. oh crap
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:06 PM
Oct 2014

I have been afraid he wouldn't pull through especially having been sent home the first time he went to the hospital. Apparently, if one starts getting treatment as soon as they start getting symptoms the better their chances though it still seems to be such a crap shoot of who survives and who doesn't.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
17. Thomas Eric Duncan has done America a favor...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:11 PM
Oct 2014

...and we will always owe a debt of gratitude to him for helping the world to wake up to the realities of ebola; that the planet is small and ebola is not just 'an African problem.'

I wish him and his family a speedy recovery.

TYY

LostInAnomie

(14,428 posts)
19. Yeah, thanks for probably knowingly bringing Ebola to the US.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:15 PM
Oct 2014

I'm sure his family and all the people he potentially infected are super jazzed about him raising awareness.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
22. Patients who rode for two days in an ambulance after he used it are also
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:19 PM
Oct 2014

very grateful (they are now in quarantine as well).

Marrah_G

(28,581 posts)
26. I agree with this!
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:25 PM
Oct 2014

All states need to be looking at mistakes made in his case and planning/training accordingly.

TorchTheWitch

(11,065 posts)
27. Yet that favor will likely take more lives
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:25 PM
Oct 2014

I can live just fine without that, thanks. Only a dumbass would think that any disease magically can't happen here.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
30. There was always going to be...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:40 PM
Oct 2014

...a FIRST ebola case in the United States. Better sooner than later so that the American complacency surrounding ebola, and everywhere else outside the continent of Africa, can be confronted head on.

Oh, and, the world is full of dumbasses. Sending an obvious potential ebola patient home with a bottle of antibiotics would be a case in point.

TYY

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
33. i see it this way. now they are being cautious. and people are pissed that they do it by procedure
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 04:05 PM
Oct 2014

of caution.

makes no sense to me.

TeeYiYi

(8,028 posts)
36. Dangerous infectious and contagious diseases...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 05:27 PM
Oct 2014

...outside the obvious HIV and now Ebola, include potentially antibiotic resistant diseases such as MRSA, TB, Strep B Meningitis, Clostridium Difficile and Septicemia. These infections are rampant, potential superbugs that are on the rise in the United States and regularly acquired within local American healthcare facilities; especially contagious in communities with poor hygiene and close living conditions.

When's the last time you considered MRSA or C.diff as potential lethal threats to your family, as a result of same day surgery or just visiting your local doctor's office?

I believe that profit driven healthcare in the United States has contributed to the uptick in infectious diseases. In addition to the obvious financial incentive to dismiss low paying patients, the economy has replaced competent, front line healthcare workers with low paid, minimum wage employees.

The current Dallas ebola scare has inadvertently unmasked the true extent of the increase in infectious diseases in the United States;… and the woefully lacking infrastructure necessary to effectively respond to these superbugs in a safe and timely fashion.

I'm grateful to Thomas Eric Duncan for shining a much needed light on the state of American profit driven healthcare and the need for strict infection control guidelines.

TYY

spanone

(135,627 posts)
31. LINK: Thomas Eric Duncan, Dallas Ebola Patient, Now In Critical Condition
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 03:59 PM
Oct 2014

Dallas Ebola patient Thomas Eric Duncan is now in critical condition, according to information released Saturday afternoon by Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital Dallas, the hospital where he is staying.

Duncan had previously been listed as being in serious condition. He was admitted to the hospital Sept. 28. His diagnosis with Ebola was confirmed by the Centers for Disease Control on Sept. 30.

Currently, there are about 50 people being monitored for Ebola after having known or possible contact with Duncan. Nine of these people had direct contact with Duncan, including his four relatives, with whom he was staying before he was sent to the hospital. The other 40 are being monitored for Ebola symptoms, but their contact with Duncan is less certain, health officials said today.

So far, none of the individuals being monitored by health officials are showing any signs of Ebola.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/10/04/dallas-ebola-patient-critical-condition_n_5932214.html

 

seabeyond

(110,159 posts)
34. So far, none of the individuals being monitored by health officials are showing any signs of Ebola.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 04:08 PM
Oct 2014

one person came in with it. so far, they have watched and been able to contain. i think, even with errors and lessons, this is important. people are aware, more caution. procedures are being put into place, because of the dallas experience.

LisaL

(44,962 posts)
46. Incubation period is up to 21 days.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 09:43 PM
Oct 2014

They might not show signs yet, it doesn't mean they aren't infected.

 

morningfog

(18,115 posts)
66. It's been 10 days since he was admitted to the hospital. Most infected persons start to show signs
Wed Oct 8, 2014, 11:50 AM
Oct 2014

7-10 days after exposure. Incubation for Ebola, generally, has been up to 21 days. But this strain, the vast majority have shown signs in the 7-10 range.

It is a good thing no one has shown any symptoms. Hopefully they won't for the next 10 days.

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
35. And if I put my tin foil hat on...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 04:55 PM
Oct 2014

I wonder if it might be advantageous to all of those who "made missteps" if he did die.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
44. No, it would not.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 09:28 PM
Oct 2014

Nobody wants to be the first American hospital to lose an Ebola patient.

Nobody wants to lose a patient, period. It is NOT to anybody's advantage.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
50. believe it.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 09:48 PM
Oct 2014

Nobody wants to lose this patient. Most especially the people that missed the call when he first came to the hospital. Even if it was 100% self-interest, they put themselves and their co-workers at risk, and they know it.

It is a new disease here. Doctors haven't seen it before so have no experience to go by. They are relying on CDC guidelines, which has 3 criteria: travel history, temperature, + 1 other symptom. He didn't meet the temperature criteria. That doesn't make it the doctor's mistake. Maybe the temperature threshold is too high. You don't necessarily jump from 98.6 to 101.5.

I was in the CDC's website earlier today. They have a checklist and a flyer. The checklist and flyer don't match perfectly. According to the checklist, Duncan didn't meet the temp criteria. According to the flyer, Duncan should have been released but put in a low risk category, and reported to the CDC for monitoring. These are guidelines, not hard and fast rules, but they should have at least matched. I ended up in a web survey for the site, so in 2 places where I could input my thoughts I told them they needed to consider changing the temperature threshold and they needed to put the low risk/monitor category into the checklist. I know it's for the site design, but it may make it back to the content people.

This is the first patient diagnosed in this country. It was bound to happen sooner or later, and it was bound to have missteps because it's all untested. It could have happened anywhere. Dallas just drew the short straw.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
52. the government isn't treating the patient, doctors and nurses are
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 10:08 PM
Oct 2014

I'm cynical of the government too, but I don't know what advantage you think they would get if Duncan died. The CDC responded immediately and have been all over this. The local government has been like any local government.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
58. if I hadn't wasted an entire day hanging out in DU I'd be feeling lost too...
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 11:24 PM
Oct 2014

I think I'm running from my feelings here, lol.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
56. yup, I get it.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 11:23 PM
Oct 2014

I don't believe in a lot anymore either. But some beliefs I'm clinging to for sanity sake.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
49. Was there someone expecting him NOT to die? He was basically "critical" when he was vomiting into
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 09:45 PM
Oct 2014

the gutter.

 

magical thyme

(14,881 posts)
59. his condition has been serious and stable since Monday.
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 11:31 PM
Oct 2014

He's entering the mid-late stages of the disease.

There is a lot of up and down, and they go down very quickly at point. The hospital will now be working very hard to keep various organs functioning.

Catherine Vincent

(34,485 posts)
62. Sigh!
Sat Oct 4, 2014, 11:49 PM
Oct 2014

As much as I cursed at him and called him names for flying over here knowing in his mind that he more than likely have the ebola virus and putting his family and others in danger....I do hope that he recovers.

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