Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:04 PM

jamzrockz (1,333 posts)

Keep misandry out of feminism

By Newby Parton • Contributing Columnist • October 1, 2014

I am a feminist, so the first words I spoke at a recent town hall meeting on the new sexual assault procedures were in praise of the University’s speedy response to the new Title IX regulations. Victims of sexual assault will now have a clearer understanding of their options. They can be advised by outside counsel at meetings. Professional investigator-judges have replaced student judges, so victims can step forward without embarrassment. Our compliance marks a huge victory for women on campus, and we’re all better off as a result.

I voiced a single worry at the town hall meeting: that the new “preponderance of the evidence” standard will, definitionally, increase the likelihood of false convictions. Unknowingly, I had struck a hole into a dam. Cries of “rape culture” spewed forth

snip

But this is an important conversation, and all ideas should be heard. A few women have turned the dialogue into a battle against men and women, and in doing so I fear that they will turn men away from feminism. Men feel marginalized when our worries about a real, higher risk of wrongful suspension are disregarded. Attributing these worries to rape culture only distances us further because we begin to think that this is what feminism has become — a bias against males that mistakes all male viewpoints for oppression.

Treating an accused perpetrator as innocent until he is found guilty can be an outgrowth of human decency, not rape culture. Similarly, the belief that men are guilty until proven innocent is misandry, not feminism. Keeping the two separate is important. Feminism is the struggle to reach equality for the sexes. It is not misandry, a bias against males. Sadly, many men forget this because misandrists never identify as such. They will tell you they are simply feminists.

http://dailyprincetonian.com/opinion/2014/10/keep-misandry-out-of-feminism/

Just an article I read and really enjoyed that shows a different side of feminism. The kind of feminism that can recapture the imagination of the general public.

Read, comment and Enjoy.

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219 replies	Author	Time	Post
Keep misandry out of feminism (Original post)	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	OP
This should be good.	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#1
Did you put butter on that? I'll bring the drinks.	Arkansas Granny	Oct 2014	#3
Beer is always good!	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#8
I'm in, and I make my own special blend of popcorn salt!	11 Bravo	Oct 2014	#31
That sounds interesting.	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#35
Oooh, that sounds good n/t	Prophet 451	Oct 2014	#75
Turned out pretty much as I expected...	stevenleser	Oct 2014	#155
Eeyup.	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#176
the predictablility is the men that do not support women. to side with the Op says a hell of a lot	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#185
hifiguy didn't side with the article in the OP, nor did I. The article is idiotic and flamebait. nt	stevenleser	Oct 2014	#186
no. what you men did was not support women, on idiotic flamebait, but giggled and pulled out	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#187
That you would twist it that way is not unexpected, but no, that is not what happened. nt	stevenleser	Oct 2014	#188
look at the first handful of posts in this thread, at the gigglin and high five among you.	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#189
You've been a DU member long enough to see this with various topics. You should know better.	stevenleser	Oct 2014	#191
i perfectly get whats going on having watched a while now. the posters involved. damn straight.	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#195
each of the men, having claimed being feminist and want voice at table, sit back with popcorn amused	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#196
Should I label obvious joking posts	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#209
ya, right	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#215
Tell me, what is it like to be omniscient and be able	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#216
lets see. wtf are you talking about? if you do not know i am not tellin. giggle, giggle.	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#217
Feminist bashing threads are hilarious and so entertaining.	sufrommich	Oct 2014	#190
See my #191. nt	stevenleser	Oct 2014	#192
See your post #6. This is no general topic popcorn thread and you know it. n/t	seaglass	Oct 2014	#193
What about it? What I wrote was exactly right. nt	stevenleser	Oct 2014	#194
Just supporting seabeyond's and sufrommich's perceptions. n/t	seaglass	Oct 2014	#197
No, it doesn't. It does the opposite. It shows I thought it was flamebait. nt	stevenleser	Oct 2014	#198
I am supporting seabeyond's and sufrommich's perceptions. n/t	seaglass	Oct 2014	#199
+1 n/t	JTFrog	Oct 2014	#200
Pick a subject, no shortage of people who are wrong about it. I'll add you to the list on this one.	stevenleser	Oct 2014	#204
list? THE list? do tell?	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#205
It appears there is a list of who is right and who is wrong. :-) n/t	seaglass	Oct 2014	#206
and if you do not know, they are not telling. ha ha ha ha. whatever. ;). nt	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#207
The OP was total flamebait, which is why I wrote what I wrote at #1.	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#208
:-)	seaglass	Oct 2014	#2
It seems the assumption is that this will be controversial	tkmorris	Oct 2014	#4
The term misandry is very controversial. Add that this comes from a male and you might as well	stevenleser	Oct 2014	#6
"I cannae do anything aboot it, Captain Kirk!	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#10
Exactly. Eject the core immediately!!!!!!!1111!11!!! nt	stevenleser	Oct 2014	#11
Exactly	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#7
Led by you? I don't think so.	seaglass	Oct 2014	#13
What exactly is wrong with the post you linked to?	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#21
You have determined it is not popular?	treestar	Oct 2014	#42
This was the reason for the whole	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#45
Not really a fan of your calling it a "brand."	treestar	Oct 2014	#47
Thank you..	whathehell	Oct 2014	#150
you misrepresent emma watson.	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#49
You gonna have to tell me how	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#52
Who gives a shit about Emma Watson?	whathehell	Oct 2014	#158
Unpopular with the crowd that is hell bent on constructing that "Feminazi" strawwomen	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#120
Thanks for 'splaining it to us poor females.	wryter2000	Oct 2014	#67
Who says it's "so unpopular"?..We know it's unpopular with guys like you..	whathehell	Oct 2014	#147
ah, voice of feminist from our very young women/girls is getting to a high pitch. scarying the shit	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#152
You got that right..	whathehell	Oct 2014	#154
Excellent post. n/t	JTFrog	Oct 2014	#201
Thank you very much.	whathehell	Oct 2014	#218
I'm laughing at what out of control entitled this bullshit is. the completly ignorant offering	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#156
Which is why you posted it in the first place.	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#119
Just read your Op of last week, in which you said Feminism needed an "autopsy"	whathehell	Oct 2014	#143
Ignorant and fearful of feminism- has no idea the history or practicalities...	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#146
Exactly...Wait til some of those college kids start living in the Real World	whathehell	Oct 2014	#149
grown ass DUers try to spitball Feminism all the time too. One I chatted with here did not believe	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#151
.	Brickbat	Oct 2014	#5
This message was self-deleted by its author	1000words	Oct 2014	#9
This message was self-deleted by its author	AverageJoe90	Oct 2014	#12
I'm not all that comfortable with the term "misandry" myself, TBH.....	AverageJoe90	Oct 2014	#14
"You got misandry in my feminism!" "You got feminism in my misandry!"	KamaAina	Oct 2014	#15
Lol! You mean this misandry?	Sheldon Cooper	Oct 2014	#16
though we do take note of posting history, and those men in this thread to incite... nt	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#17
The list?	pintobean	Oct 2014	#116
I haven't heard about	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#174
Wtf are you talking about?	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#175
If you can't figure it out	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#177
it simply does not make sense. making shit up, to play a silly game. then giggle.	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#184
Trash thread.	Iggo	Oct 2014	#18
Yup	ismnotwasm	Oct 2014	#26
Oh, it's PRINCETON!	CTyankee	Oct 2014	#19
Years ago I encountered a hysterical poem about Princeton	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#23
My first husband was a Harvard man...As the saying goes, you can always tell a Harvard man...	CTyankee	Oct 2014	#25
Never lost a trial against a Harvard law grad.	AngryAmish	Oct 2014	#63
don't be too eager to dismiss the Ivy League...they rule, you know...	CTyankee	Oct 2014	#81
oh, so true	AngryAmish	Oct 2014	#83
and why is it that they think that way?	CTyankee	Oct 2014	#84
They are very, very bright.	AngryAmish	Oct 2014	#91
LOL ...	1StrongBlackMan	Oct 2014	#172
Your friend is the half dozen stewards/ business agents that keep me in business	AngryAmish	Oct 2014	#173
Yep ...	1StrongBlackMan	Oct 2014	#181
As much as I admire those you cite to ...	1StrongBlackMan	Oct 2014	#92
Oh, I don't think they are, at all! I don't think that area of law would attract them	CTyankee	Oct 2014	#95
Could that be ...	1StrongBlackMan	Oct 2014	#89
yep! they know where the power in society lies and they aren't in it...	CTyankee	Oct 2014	#93
They are all grinders, smart and very driven	AngryAmish	Oct 2014	#94
Way back when I was in Law School ...	1StrongBlackMan	Oct 2014	#170
I am not surprised. I've seen really good litigators	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#210
OK	gollygee	Oct 2014	#20
More like he wants a voice at the table	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#22
Men don't have a disproportionate voice at the table?	CTyankee	Oct 2014	#27
Men having	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#36
Women lead the women's movement	gollygee	Oct 2014	#64
Ever seem "Wizard of Oz?	Scootaloo	Oct 2014	#131
No, he's just bullshitting	gollygee	Oct 2014	#28
Misandry doesn't exist?	Prophet 451	Oct 2014	#80
Yes, probably, to some extant, but since it exists within the far less powerful,	whathehell	Oct 2014	#157
why? why does he want a voice at the table, when discussing womens issues?	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#30
Maybe he	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#33
mans voice at the table is to redefine to a human issue and not a womans issue, correct?	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#41
Woman's issue	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#50
Oh my God	gollygee	Oct 2014	#53
truly fuckin' in the face, fuckin' amazing, huh. lol. they want the voice at the table. all right	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#57
damn good thing he is a "feminist", lol.	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#58
+1000	Starry Messenger	Oct 2014	#71
I listened to Emma Watson's speech	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#86
It has a gendered name for a reason	gollygee	Oct 2014	#99
You may not have heard about it	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#102
That doesn't mean they're trying to rebrand it	gollygee	Oct 2014	#105
Thats the I see it	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#113
You misunderstood her	gollygee	Oct 2014	#114
You are not for online petititions	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#129
You are most assuredly wrong	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#130
Same garbage	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#126
so again, you reiterate a bit more forcefully, women should not be the heart of feminism. it is a	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#54
The question is...is the core of feminism really about equality?	davidn3600	Oct 2014	#72
advocating for perks. ya david. i get where you are on the feminsit issue	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#74
Women did not get "extra perks"	gollygee	Oct 2014	#100
Evidence based care is not a perk.	LeftyMom	Oct 2014	#118
Surgical instruments, medications and procedures- all designed for men. Too big, too much for women	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#127
Have you done a single thing in health care advocacy for men? Or is this fake concern?	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#133
What a load of tosh	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#134
Oh please...Men, not women, are routinely used as subjects in disease studies, and	whathehell	Oct 2014	#161
HA HA HA HA HA HA. You admitted you want to completely dismantle feminism a little too quickly, LOL	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#106
Yea, because you have to fly under	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#110
Nonsense- you are here arguing that the laws and "protections" in place are enough in the USA, LOL-	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#112
I guess this is the end of the line	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#115
hopefully, you will do some research about how "well" the Ledbetter act is working out for us...	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#122
The linked article made a couple of valid points	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#212
Pray tell, do tell us the new name	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#138
A "place at the table", my ass..Men practically OWN the fucking table.	whathehell	Oct 2014	#159
Feminism	gollygee	Oct 2014	#48
I wonder if the author of the article is enjoying the disgusting comments it is getting.	Luminous Animal	Oct 2014	#56
sure. as telling as the men above with their popcorn to giggle over another man telling us	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#60
+1	LostInAnomie	Oct 2014	#103
Men who do not rape have often said . .	Brigid	Oct 2014	#24
I'd be interested in hearing the answer to this, too...	CTyankee	Oct 2014	#29
Maybe Emma Watson's	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#34
Let men voice their opnion . . .	Brigid	Oct 2014	#37
They could listen a bit before they start telling us	treestar	Oct 2014	#38
Did you even read the article?	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#43
Poor poor men	treestar	Oct 2014	#46
Stop living in the past	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#55
as a fembro, educate yourself and clue in, so you can at least carry a conversation.	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#62
Sorry, but I truly find it hard to believe those numbers	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#68
Many, many, many more than 10 guilty people go free	gollygee	Oct 2014	#69
if this is your voice at the table? you are nothing but a hindrance and we do not have time for	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#70
Don't confuse statistics	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#73
if you actually put forth the effort to educate yourself on issues you want a voice at the table,	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#77
Show me their data source	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#90
Oh dear, you have no idea how few reports are even taken, let alone result in an arrest.	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#125
THIS. And if he realized how much of a constant thing this is-	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#124
Even lowlifes eh? Nice	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#144
Seems to be human nature to consciously disbelieve that which invalidates our biases.	LanternWaste	Oct 2014	#211
The past, where men could claim they had consent	treestar	Oct 2014	#117
swinging side to side?	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#142
And if he brought up the thoroughly debunked Kanin study (as he did in the article), then	Luminous Animal	Oct 2014	#51
Didn't he call it	gollygee	Oct 2014	#59
Why yes, yes he did!	Luminous Animal	Oct 2014	#76
How much of a voice?	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#140
She can voice her opinion..	whathehell	Oct 2014	#162
Which men?	99Forever	Oct 2014	#96
Yup- "it wasn't me" isn't helping. Never did.	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#108
Misandry? I am taking misandry so seriously since it is sooo prevalent.	bravenak	Oct 2014	#32
Hahhahah!!!	Sheldon Cooper	Oct 2014	#66
It's rare but it does exist	Prophet 451	Oct 2014	#82
Bullshit.	alarimer	Oct 2014	#39
I remember saying something similar	treestar	Oct 2014	#40
I've copied/pasted a comment under that article:	Demit	Oct 2014	#44
Well....	99Forever	Oct 2014	#61
Not all feminists	Capt. Obvious	Oct 2014	#65
Very few in fact	Prophet 451	Oct 2014	#85
Is all of Christianity defined by Phelps?	MattBaggins	Oct 2014	#148
Of course not	Prophet 451	Oct 2014	#153
what damage does this unknown person discussing the two issues of yours does? how is it in any way	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#160
LOL, like saying keep reverse racism out of civil rights. nt	geek tragedy	Oct 2014	#78
and all the same ole men, that demand they are taken seriously, gigglin with their popcorn.	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#79
How exactly is that funny	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#88
It's ridiculous because there's no institutional racism against whites	NuclearDem	Oct 2014	#98
Post removed	Post removed	Oct 2014	#101
...and a long, long history of treating black people like property.	NuclearDem	Oct 2014	#104
I wanna hear about those institutions that have	jamzrockz	Oct 2014	#107
Oh wow- you have a lot of reading to do about this subject before we allow you in the room, let	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#109
misandry is not a serious problem. It's not even a problem at all.	geek tragedy	Oct 2014	#166
so. this would be the man that feels he needs a voice at the table. women, stfu and lets us boys	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#167
you can't make this shit up nt	geek tragedy	Oct 2014	#169
Seem like de ja vous?	JTFrog	Oct 2014	#202
more than mere de ja vous. but there have been so many, i cannot pull it out...	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#203
I wonder ...	1StrongBlackMan	Oct 2014	#87
Seems the doctor is practicing bad medicine.	boston bean	Oct 2014	#97
"Hey ladies, an Ivy League manchild needs to explain feminism to you." Thanks, no.	LeftyMom	Oct 2014	#111
I wonder if this is that same kid who posted the " humanism i/o feminism" video here a while back...	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#121
I thought I recognized him from this video:	LeftyMom	Oct 2014	#123
If a man were to judge a woman like that based on looks, you'd be upset at the misogyny. nt	Electric Monk	Oct 2014	#132
I'm judging him based on his unexamined class privilege. Which was clear from my further comment.	LeftyMom	Oct 2014	#135
"...he looks EXACTLY how I pictured him. This is NOT A COMPLIMENT." nt	Electric Monk	Oct 2014	#136
He looks like a spoiled Ivy League date rapist. nt	LeftyMom	Oct 2014	#139
This message was self-deleted by its author	1000words	Oct 2014	#163
I think you mean ageism- but since they have so little experience in the real world, I don't think	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#137
EM is trying really hard to find a reason why men on DU are oppressed.	LeftyMom	Oct 2014	#141
Teenagers who are slapped down because they are uniformed of what they speak? A good thing!	bettyellen	Oct 2014	#145
Thread Over	ProfessorGAC	Oct 2014	#182
I'm copy-pasting the OP here for archival purposes	Electric Monk	Oct 2014	#128
Why no comments on this thread from the elusive misandrists, where are they?	betsuni	Oct 2014	#164
i dunno. the first ten posts are men gathering around to giggle among themselves. waz up	seabeyond	Oct 2014	#165
The funniest thing is that they are completely defeated in these discussions	betsuni	Oct 2014	#168
I am a woman. I have experienced sexual assault repeatedly. My perpetrators have not been held	Dont call me Shirley	Oct 2014	#171
Very wise words.	hifiguy	Oct 2014	#213
Thank you. The words came from experience. Hard lessons.	Dont call me Shirley	Oct 2014	#214
If I understand right, this post was basically about how the "presumption of innocence",	hughee99	Oct 2014	#178
The guy is right.	LostInAnomie	Oct 2014	#179
America's founders were simply mistaken	MannyGoldstein	Oct 2014	#180
At least you avoided saying "founding fathers" before trying to put feminists in their place,	geek tragedy	Oct 2014	#219
Yes!!!!!! DU has a new "feminist" here to explain things to us.	NCTraveler	Oct 2014	#183

Response to jamzrockz (Original post)

Thu Oct 2, 2014, 02:07 PM

hifiguy (33,688 posts)

Keep misandry out of feminism

1. This should be good.

3. Did you put butter on that? I'll bring the drinks.

8. Beer is always good!

31. I'm in, and I make my own special blend of popcorn salt!

35. That sounds interesting.

75. Oooh, that sounds good n/t

155. Turned out pretty much as I expected...

176. Eeyup.

185. the predictablility is the men that do not support women. to side with the Op says a hell of a lot

186. hifiguy didn't side with the article in the OP, nor did I. The article is idiotic and flamebait. nt

187. no. what you men did was not support women, on idiotic flamebait, but giggled and pulled out

188. That you would twist it that way is not unexpected, but no, that is not what happened. nt

189. look at the first handful of posts in this thread, at the gigglin and high five among you.

191. You've been a DU member long enough to see this with various topics. You should know better.

195. i perfectly get whats going on having watched a while now. the posters involved. damn straight.

196. each of the men, having claimed being feminist and want voice at table, sit back with popcorn amused

209. Should I label obvious joking posts

215. ya, right

216. Tell me, what is it like to be omniscient and be able

217. lets see. wtf are you talking about? if you do not know i am not tellin. giggle, giggle.

190. Feminist bashing threads are hilarious and so entertaining.

192. See my #191. nt

193. See your post #6. This is no general topic popcorn thread and you know it. n/t

194. What about it? What I wrote was exactly right. nt

197. Just supporting seabeyond's and sufrommich's perceptions. n/t

198. No, it doesn't. It does the opposite. It shows I thought it was flamebait. nt

199. *I* am supporting seabeyond's and sufrommich's perceptions. n/t

200. +1 n/t

204. Pick a subject, no shortage of people who are wrong about it. I'll add you to the list on this one.

205. list? THE list? do tell?

206. It appears there is a list of who is right and who is wrong. :-) n/t

207. and if you do not know, they are not telling. ha ha ha ha. whatever. ;). nt

208. The OP was total flamebait, which is why I wrote what I wrote at #1.

2. :-)

4. It seems the assumption is that this will be controversial

6. The term misandry is very controversial. Add that this comes from a male and you might as well

10. "I cannae do anything aboot it, Captain Kirk!

11. Exactly. Eject the core immediately!!!!!!!1111!11!!! nt

7. Exactly

13. Led by you? I don't think so.

21. What exactly is wrong with the post you linked to?

42. You have determined it is not popular?

45. This was the reason for the whole

47. Not really a fan of your calling it a "brand."

150. Thank you..

49. you misrepresent emma watson.

52. You gonna have to tell me how

158. Who gives a shit about Emma Watson?

120. Unpopular with the crowd that is hell bent on constructing that "Feminazi" strawwomen

67. Thanks for 'splaining it to us poor females.

147. Who says it's "so unpopular"?..We know it's unpopular with guys like you..

152. ah, voice of feminist from our very young women/girls is getting to a high pitch. scarying the shit

154. You got that right..

201. Excellent post. n/t

218. Thank you very much.

156. I'm laughing at what out of control entitled this bullshit is. the completly ignorant offering

119. Which is why you posted it in the first place.

143. Just read your Op of last week, in which you said Feminism needed an "autopsy"

146. Ignorant and fearful of feminism- has no idea the history or practicalities...

149. Exactly...Wait til some of those college kids start living in the Real World

151. grown ass DUers try to spitball Feminism all the time too. One I chatted with here did not believe

5. .

14. I'm not all that comfortable with the term "misandry" myself, TBH.....

15. "You got misandry in my feminism!" "You got feminism in my misandry!"

16. Lol! You mean this misandry?

17. though we do take note of posting history, and those men in this thread to incite... nt

116. The list?

174. I haven't heard about

175. Wtf are you talking about?

177. If you can't figure it out

184. it simply does not make sense. making shit up, to play a silly game. then giggle.

18. Trash thread.

26. Yup

19. Oh, it's PRINCETON!

23. Years ago I encountered a hysterical poem about Princeton

25. My first husband was a Harvard man...As the saying goes, you can always tell a Harvard man...

63. Never lost a trial against a Harvard law grad.

81. don't be too eager to dismiss the Ivy League...they rule, you know...

83. oh, so true

199. I am supporting seabeyond's and sufrommich's perceptions. n/t