Here we go again... Michael Moore speaks the truth and Liberals turn on one of their own.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

Face facts.

Michael Moore was right.

Obama has not received credit for ANYTHING he has done. Bill Maher has said so too. Rachael Maddow has said it. WE have lamented it here as well.

There is an active campaign by Republicans and their lapdogs in the media to wipe out the Obama presidency from the first day when they claimed he wasn't the REAL president when ROBERTS flubbed the Oath of Office.

Michael Moore says there are people trying to make Obama a mere footnote in history and people here scream that Michael Moore is saying Obama is a mere footnote in history.

Just for ONCE can we take a breath and calm down and stop the usual rush to suicide?

Maybe even do something the Right NEVER does and admit we were WRONG????

(Here's where I get accused of enabling a racist.)

[grahamhgreen]

1. Agreed. His signature acheivement was passing a republican health care scam.

[Puzzledtraveller]

3. They are blood thirsty grahamgreen

and the ISIS situation has got a lot of people scrambling to justify their unwavering support, as if you had to support the president 100% on everything, if not then you are against him, more black/white, with us/against us mentality I am seeing more than I want to these days.

[KittyWampus]

26. that "scam" got my teeth badly needed work, new glasses and xrays for my broken toe this spring.

That "scam" was, and still is, opposed by Republicans.

[grahamhgreen]

32. Better than nothing, for sure. Not as good as Medicare for all. Did you get the

Expended Medicare?

[msanthrope]

186. The scam that saved my fucking right eye. nt

[Voice for Peace]

27. gosh that scam saved me last winter when I got pneumonia.

[grahamhgreen]

39. Did you get Medicare?

[Voice for Peace]

45. I have whatever is given to the indigent.

[grahamhgreen]

51. Yes,the expanded Medicare is one of the best parts of the plan. The alternative to Obamacare is

Medicare for all, which we are still working on. V

Check out PNHP.org

[Voice for Peace]

54. I was mostly Canadian for about ten years and lived with their healthcare.

There was never a second thought given. You need a doctor, you go.
You need an operation, you get it. You need a shrink, here's a good
one. Bills? Never. Medications? Free. That's all I remember.

[grahamhgreen]

56. The way it will be... One day:)

[Voice for Peace]

58. :) All-in in favor of that, and it seems inevitable.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

66. The ACA was a milestone because it stated the government had a responsibility to it's citizens....

THAT is why Republicans hate it.

[Voice for Peace]

70. I thought they hated it because Obama.

and because they didn't do it first.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

73. They still claim it's a "government takeover"....

You know, like Amtrak.

They long for the days of the rail tycoons.

This is the beginning of the end for health insurance. These companies will have to go back to denying widows the life insurance they paid for by claiming their dead husband was engaging in "risky behavior" by being stuck in rush hour traffic when the semi rolled over him.

[Voice for Peace]

118. I personally believe that the bad guys' days are numbered. Granted it may be a big number

but their time of power is going to pass on this earth.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

123. America promoting Capitalism is a Cold War remnant about to die.

[BlindTiresias]

176. LOL

Nice fantasy world, would you mind informing me how to enter it?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

183. Easy. Travel outside of the United States.

[Revanchist]

61. Medicaid, not Medicare

Medicare is for disabilities and the elderly, Medicaid is for the poor.

[grahamhgreen]

68. care for the eldery, aid for the poor... dang! i know that!

[Voice for Peace]

71. I am the poor....

But I don't feel poor. I've got people who love me, funny cats
and tons of sunflowers out back, sunshine three hundred days a year.
I've got internet a roof and water and enough food
to share with a hungry person.
I have a feeling heart and life is kind to me.

Now I also have health insurance. Thanks Obama!

[Laelth]

83. Lovely post. n/t

-Laelth

[Progressive dog]

124. Medicaid was expanded, medicare wasn't

except that Obama's supposed cuts to medicare started to close the drug doughnut hole.

[Todays_Illusion]

149. Medicaid, that poster has Medicaid. Medicare only for contributors 65 and older or disabled after

being a contributor.

[sabbat hunter]

154. that is medicaid

not medicare. Medicare is for the elderly/disabled. Medicaid is for the poor. Medicaid was expanded (in some states) thanks to ACA.

I for one love my ACA health plan, as it allows me to see my doctor regularly, get all my meds for free.

[area51]

72. +1

Unless the law can be amended to start moving toward sanity by including a public option. Notice how there've been two extensions of the business mandate but not the individual mandate. Obama isn't the liberal some people here believe. I'm not saying he's done nothing good at all, but he isn't a liberal.

[joshcryer]

75. This is a right wing meme perpetuated by the right.

There is no comparison to the Heritage Foundation plan, especially since we'll have two states with single payer in 3 short years and, in fact, single payer was always the end goal and the path toward it is right there in the ACA legislation. Of course, Obama couldn't get credit for that, either.

[treestar]

160. Not a scam

I am way better off than I was before the ACA. Being self employed, I could only afford high deductible insurance. Now I have a low deductible and the subsidy means it costs a lot less.

For once the social safety net is graduated. Before you qualified for Medicaid (and you don't have to make much not to qualify) or if you made just a bit too much for that, you were stuck with almost nothing (a high deductible meaning you'd pay for everything most years).

It's health insurance that keeps people on welfare. Once they made too much for welfare, it was still not enough to get health insurance.

This is a significant achievement for Obama and the 111th Congress. They did the best they could with who they had. If Teddy had lived (or people in MA got out to vote) we might have had a public option.

[tridim]

2. Obama will be rembered for the ACA. At the least.

"Getting credit" is not the same as history.

Moore is wrong.

[Luminous Animal]

4. Really. If ACA is remembered 100 years from now that that means the U.S. never had a leader come up

with something better and that we will still be the shithole, when it comes to healthcare, that we are now.

[tridim]

15. He regulated the health insurance industry. It's an amazing accomplishment.

And it will be remembered for centuries. Deal.

[Luminous Animal]

20. Glass-Steagall. Repealed by a Democratic President.

And the insurance industry is "regulated" only as much as they were willing to allow themselves to be regulated.

[Cha]

22. It's a BFD and some just can't handle it.

[Marr]

29. He rescued the insurance industry and latched it onto government.

People were fed up and that was a moment of opportunity for real change. He saved the insurance industry from itself.

[joshcryer]

77. The ACA preserves it, temporarily.

The insurance industry cannot compete with single payer and states will enact it themselves starting in 2017. Vermont already passed it. Oregon is right there about to do it too. I expect Colorado will follow shortly thereafter (given Colorado's free clinics Colorado is already on the leading edge there).

[joshcryer]

76. IMO, no, the ACA is like Social Security, but for health care.

Social Security only covered a very small subset of the population. No disability, no widows benefits, no child entitlements, it only covered primary workers, period. The ACA will rightly be seen as the precursor to single payer, as that has always been the goal.

[OilemFirchen]

100. And yet Roosevelt is remembered for the Social Security Act of 1935.

Although it only covered retirement benefits to workers. Not spouses or dependents, nor survivors. No disability, no medical coverage. No COLA.

It took twenty years before most of those benefits were realized, and another ten until Medicare.

All of this, BTW, with a remarkably supportive Congress.

How embarrassing for you and Moore.

ETA: Oops, just saw joshcryer's post. A day late...

And no response to that, either. What a shock!

[Capt. Obvious]

113. The Ableist attacks on our first disabled President are sickening

[Spitfire of ATJ]

16. I heard a Right Wing Talker on the radio claim the ACA was the Republican answer to "Obamacare".

[Cha]

19. That's what the President said awhile ago.. When it's successful they won't be calling it

Obamacare, anymore.

[rpannier]

60. They'll be calling it RepublicCare

And waxing about how were it not for the Republicans there would be no health coverage for so many. That had Obama gotten his way it would have been a Socialist hell hole piece of legislation. That it was they who saved it from that

The American public, by in large, may actually believe because some have the retention of a small gnat

[joshcryer]

78. The left also makes that statement.

That the ACA was a Republican idea. But it was not, in any way, shape, or form. No Republican approach would pave the way for single payer.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

107. I get the feeling Dems are testing the waters to prove the Republicans are crazy.

[babylonsister]

80. No. The rethugs had NO plan, still don't. Now they want to

take credit for this one?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

104. Yup. They claim it's their plan from the Heritage Foundation....

The problem is a LOT of it actually IS from the old plan Bob Dole introduced as an answer to "HillaryCare" back in the 90s.

The Republicans have gone so far to the Right that they call their own plan from 20 years ago "Commie".

[Cha]

17. Haha, the ODS is rampant.. spewing off their keyboards.. I love it! President Obama will

be remembered for implementing the First National Health Care system.. and Hopefully it Gets even Better.

DOMA? Gone under PBO DADT? Gone under Obama.. the haters can't stand it, tridim. They continue to whine, sputter, and spew.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

36. The Right on the radio claims "Obamacare" is free healthcare for blacks paid for by whites.

[Cha]

40. That toxic garbage Will harm you ears, Spitfire~

[Spitfire of ATJ]

64. It's good to know what we're up against.

[joshcryer]

79. The ACA is the biggest thing since Medicare or Civil Rights.

It is absurd to think that history will forget it. Patently absurd and hateful.

[treestar]

162. and bin laden

and getting rid of DADT. Of course if we made a list we'd get the usual scorn.

[woo me with science]

5. He has entrenched and expanded the corporate, MIC, and surveillance/security state agenda

that is aggressively, and bipartisanly, leading the US into fascism.

And that is no overstatement.

[emulatorloo]

102. Yes, Obama is Hitler

[Phlem]

145. +1000

hard for some to grasp but I hear you.

[MohRokTah]

6. So you believe Michael Moore's racist rant was truth????

[Spitfire of ATJ]

10. It wasn't racist....

I will explain AGAIN but FIRST you have to promise to shut off your hate.

Deal?

[rhett o rick]

28. Desperation is calling Michael Moore a racist because you don't like his message. nm

[Dawgs]

94. Ah, somebody that doesn't understand what racist means.

Nice.

[Bobbie Jo]

114. Ah, another white guy who claims

to understand "true" racism.

[Damansarajaya]

134. Or maybe just another white guy who is justified in challenging

a false charge of racism . . .

[NorthCarolina]

143. Racist??? Not hardly. Maybe you should try another angle of attack, that one won't fly. nt

[Hissyspit]

151. Yes, the entirety of Moore's career has shown he is a racist.

[840high]

153. Nothing racist about it.

[X_Digger]

7. MM hasn't been 'one of our own' for quite some time. n/t

[Anansi1171]

8. Right. The President's never ending problems with "Optics"...

...we'll Moore is right about those optics.

Being Black while Presiding (or the 1st Black while Presiding) is never the right optic.

Moore is Right! Not correct, though.

Shameful;he lobs a criticism worthy of a Peggy Noonan column and it was not a constructive criticism at all.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

12. "it was not a constructive criticism at all."

Sure it was.

As long as we realize WHO he was criticizing.

(Hint: It wasn't Obama.)

[brentspeak]

9. Americans remember Washington for being the nation's first president

Fair or unfair, not many know him for his presidential actions during the Whiskey Rebellion or the 1792 Militia Act.

Similarly, the first thing Americans 100 years from now will know about Obama is that he was the nation's first black president. Fair or unfair, not many will know about his efforts to get ACA passed or his skirmishes with John Boehner. The ACA law will get modified/nullifed and fade into history over the decades while the latter individual will end up a complete historical footnote (or maybe live on as the butt of an obscure dirty joke.)

[Spitfire of ATJ]

13. Look how DC remembered Ford as a "healer" while the nation dumped him for pardoning Nixon.

[awoke_in_2003]

161. And JFK

was the first Catholic president.

[Warpy]

11. I didn't join that thread. Moore spoke the truth but it seems a little unfair.

Because Obama was stymied by conservatives from both parties in Congress, we got less health care reform than we needed; we got less of a stimulus than we needed; we got far less financial reform than is necessary; and America has gotten no raise.

That's why he'll be remembered as the first black president and not for other achievements. Republican bigots all got together and decided they would fight against anything and everything he proposed, even when it was their own dogma being presented to them. It would have been farce if the country hadn't been in so much trouble after 40 years of wage depression capped off by the worst president in our history doubling down on Reagan's swindle.

He might have been one of the great presidents had Democrats not been too bone lazy to get to the polls in 2010. He would have been far better than he is had he not been saddled with four years of the Clown Congress.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. I like the way you mentioned "conservatives from both parties"....

That was spot on.

It's like when Republicans would claim they had "bipartisan support" because of Joe Lieberman.

[rhett o rick]

31. "Obama was stymied by conservatives from both parties in Congress, "

Stymied?? He appointed nothing but conservatives. He embraces conservatives. He kept many of the Bush appointees.

Which of the following Pres Obama appointees is not a conservative: Tim Geitner, Lawrence Summers, Ben Bernanke, William M. Daley, Jeff Immelt, Dave Cote, Jeb Bush, Robert Gates, Gen Stanley McChrystal, Jacob Lew, Jeremiah Norton, Gen Petraeus, John Brennen, Chuck Hegal, Michael Taylor, James Comey, James R. Clapper, Robert Mueller, Michele Leonhart (DEA), Lois Lerner (IRS), Rahm Emanuel, Penny Pritzker????

He accepts the Patriot Act, Indefinite detention, illegal spying on American citizens, the environmental damage caused by fracking and the XL Pipeline, trade agreements that move jobs to Asia like the TPP. These are all conservative stands.

[stillwaiting]

96. Very good list. Add Arne Duncan. He's FAR RIGHT in his approach to what he's done to education. nt

[QC]

98. Duncan has arguably done far more damage to public education

than Bush's people.

Certainly no Republican has ever been more devoted to the destruction/corporatization of public education than Arne Duncan, who clearly has the president's full confidence.

[JaneyVee]

18. Nah. He'll be remembered for...

Tripling the stock market. Lowering unemployment from 10.2% to 4.8% (economist estimate). Reversing a great depression. Reforming healthcare. Saving auto industry. Killing Bin Laden. And being the first black president.

You know how presidential legacies are boiled down to talking points. Moore is crazy on this one.

[Cha]

21. Thanks JaneyVee.. and DADT & DOMA.. Cleaning up bush-cheney's fucking mess..

[JaneyVee]

24. Yup. His legacy is going to be historic.

One would have to go pretty far back in history to find a president who accomplished so much. Think about presidents over the past 50yrs, they're lucky to be remembered for even one or two great accomishments, Obama's will be historic.

[Cha]

25. Right, and it drives the haters CRAZY!!

[Major Hogwash]

41. Which is why when people here are reminded that Moore supported Nader in 2000 . . .

. . . they go ballistic, off in to space.

[Cha]

50. Aw.. isn't that special.. nader the ratfucker of 2000. TweedleDum and TweedleDee.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

67. Yes, thank you JaneyVee

And he's done so much of it with such an obstinate Congress, a profoundly hostile media and such intense hate and disrespect from certain sectors. I think history will remember him very well indeed

[Zorra]

23. I just hope and pray that he is not remembered as a War President. nt

[Maedhros]

115. The Obama Administration has been just as bloodthirsty as any other.

Ramping up drone strikes in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Yemen.

Selling arms to countries like Bahrain who used them to suppress the Arab Spring uprising.

Defying Congress to bomb Libya, which triggered the crisis in Mali.

Straining at the leash to get at Assad in Syria by embellishing nerve gas attack claims later proven to be a false flag operation by Turkey.

Steadily and stealthily increasing military operations in Africa by 217% since 2009.

Using the 9/11 anniversary to gin up support for attacks on ISIS.

Obama is a War President. All American Presidents are War Presidents.

[Voice for Peace]

30. I predict Obama will be remembered for his dignity and his intelligence.

Among other things. How well loved he was, around
the world. How he steered a gigantic ship away from
certain self destruction, after them who shall not be named
left office. They didn't even clean up after themselves.
This seems to be a common Republican quirk.
The party of personal responsibility never learned
to clean up after themselves.

Down the history road Obama will be likened to Lincoln and
Kennedy, and other great figures in world history. His
speeches will be studied and many of his words will
be memorized, thought about, discussed. Hope will
continue to resonate.

For those who choose to complain and be disappointed,
it's understandable but a shame. This is a beautiful and
amazing time to be alive. We have an exceptional chance
to make it good.

[ucrdem]

34. Wow.

Best answer ever. I hope you'll make this an OP so I can rec it!

[Cha]

43. Very Good, Voice for Peace~ Mahalo~

[Spitfire of ATJ]

46. Robin Williams said Obama winning got America officially out of rehab.

[Voice for Peace]

55. He's still cracking me up, from orbit.

[Nightjock]

53. Amazing answer but you left ONE thing out

these horrific republicans will always be remembered right alongside the first black president as voting against him on everything ONLY because they did not want to lose the votes of the racists and ignorant people in the R party.

Many years from now young people learning about the first black president will ask "How could they get away with it?"
-the way as a child I asked my parents how they could spray black people with fire hoses and get away with it.

[Voice for Peace]

57. I envision them being remembered as small, dark, unhealthy things, with dollar signs in their eyes

Like a sickness upon the land, and things that thrive in the dark.

It's a mystery, but that's not a good excuse. Now is the time for
every one of us to make a difference. Bring forth peace. There's
a sun rising and they are the darkness.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

69. What's great is to see an entire generation grow up watching Republicans become the party of evil.

[Voice for Peace]

170. It's true. In 20 years there will only be about 5 republicans left, and they'll be in hiding.

Without love, they will all die off.

[DCBob]

81. +1!

[Capt. Obvious]

92. And his amazing abs and chest

[Voice for Peace]

120. and his skill at basketball, and that he was human, and heartfelt.

no sarcasm here.

How do you suppose you would do in his place?

[Capt. Obvious]

122. I'd be better than Bush

That's all that matters.

[treestar]

166. Fail

that was not what the poster hinted at.

[drray23]

101. absolutely

Agree on all your points. We are witnessing history being made, i am convinced of that.
Future generations will remember him as one of the greatest president ever. They will see that it was the turning point, when we started reversing the tide of reago omics and unbriddled capitalism towards caring for the people. I have no doubt we will have universal healthcare during my lifetime ( i am 47).

[Voice for Peace]

121. thank you!

I'm starting to get hives from the cynicism around here.

[Maedhros]

116. You forgot the sarcasm tag. [n/t]

[Voice for Peace]

119. You forgot the cynicism & disappointment tag.

[treestar]

165. Those are some good points too

for his very good handling of the Presidential role.

[blkmusclmachine]

33. Obama has been real conciliatory toward the GOP, to a fault. From Day ONE.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. Yeah, because that worked so well for Clinton.

[Mnpaul]

159. Well, it probably did work out well for Clinton

the rest of us, not so much.

[Skittles]

65. it would have been different had he not coveted their approval

he wasted so much time and opportunity

[LeftyMom]

35. Most of the people flipping out are centrists, at best.

But they have a narrative about The Left they're eager to push.

[QC]

84. Bingo.

Funny how whenever Moore's name is mentioned, all the usual Fox "News" smears pop up, tripping so lightly off the tongues of people who constantly assure us that they are liberals.

[Puglover]

97. "Centrists"??

You are being very kind.

[QC]

106. Far, far too kind.

Anybody with more than three functioning neurons knows what's up with people who spend all their time here attacking liberals, who indeed are so devoted to shitting on liberals that they sign up again and again and again so that they can keep doing it.

[Puglover]

129. Yep

Michael Moore, Amy Goodman, Thom Hartmann are the enemy.

Not to mention Snowden and Greenwald. The authors of all that is evil.

Not to tough to see what's going on.

[QC]

131. Noam Chomsky is a water carrier for the MIC.

I just learned that today on DU!

Also, Howard Zinn was a lousy scholar because he was not fair and balanced. That's something else I learned here a few years back, when Zinn ventured a few mild policy criticisms of You Know Who.

[Puglover]

132. Voldemort?

[QC]

135. The One Who Must Never Be Criticized. n/t

[markpkessinger]

146. Damn! Et tu, Noam and Howard?

Jeesh, a winger under every rock!

[QC]

150. One cannot be too careful these days!

That's why I get all my info now from whitehouse.gov. Any other source might expose me to heresy and false doctrine!

[L0oniX]

174. Jeeze ...they must have smoked some bad crack.

[QC]

182. That person was until recently an LBN host. n/t

[Marr]

140. Yep-- you said it. /nt

[treestar]

167. The country is full of centrists

By definition.

They sure are not going to be convinced of anything by this insulting attitude.

[obxhead]

37. Liberals are not throwing Moore under the bus

center right fans that cheer for Obama are.

[still_one]

38. oh boy another anti-Obama thread how he hasn't done anything. Gosh, DU is becoming such a crock

maybe it should be renamed, nader underground

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. At least you didn't accuse me of trolling for people who can't,.....oh. Sorry.

[Cha]

48. Oh but they get to call us "centrists" and better yet "center right" .. because .. wait for it..

we support Obama and worse.. we support the President over Michael Moore!

Oh here's another two.. "Idolitrists and acolytes." Rofl

Bless their hearts.

[Jakes Progress]

49. No. It's Democratic Underground, not Obama Underground.

Democratic as in supporting and celebrating the traditional goals and aspirations of the Democratic Party.

[Major Hogwash]

52. You forgot somethin' . . . President Obama IS the leader of the Democratic party.

By virtue of him being the President of the United States of America.
And being twice-elected to that office, he is doing very well, thank you very much!

Boo-yah!

[markpkessinger]

147. Last time I checked . . .

. . . marching in lockstep was not a requirement to be a Democrat. Generally speaking, we leave that sort of thing to the Republicans.

[Jakes Progress]

180. You don't know something….a party and a principle are not the same thing.

This is not the Democratic Party Underground.

By virtue of the political system of money that exists, he was elected while running as a Democrat.
And twice, the powers that run things and make you think you know what is happening liked him so much they sean nonentities against him.

No. He is not doing very well. Thanks very much to those like you.

(You have a very apt handle there.)

[SidDithers]

117. The fringe left has officially gone off the deep end...

They sound more and more like teabaggers every day.

Sid

[Spitfire of ATJ]

144. You mean they can only tell you what they hate?

[Jakes Progress]

181. The mindless center has officially swallowed the kool-aid.

They sound more and more like tea baggers every day.

[Jakes Progress]

47. Not liberals. Idolitrists and acolytes.

[C Moon]

59. I was surprised when I saw folks on DU calling him a racist.

I just figure it's people who didn't like him to begin with, so they nit pick at sentences to reassure themselves why they don't like him. I'm an Obama supporter, and I figured out what Moore was trying to say. I don't agree with it, I think President Obama has done some great stuff with the "tools" (congress) he was given, but I was able to see where he was going with that statement. No. Moore isn't a racist.

[TBF]

88. Agree - ACA is an incredible accomplishment

given where we are as a country at this point in time.

I think he is also an accidental warrior - I don't think he has been the one biting the bit to get back into Iraq (that would be the pugs - got a thrilled email from my republican congressman yesterday who is very excited about fighting ISIS).

That said I don't think he is the greatest. He's not Lincoln, FDR or even Eisenhower. But I don't think he's nearly as incompetent or bad-spirited as some make him out to be.

He's dealing with capitalism - it's not pretty.

[ificandream]

62. It's true...

While it's correct that the Republicans are trying to minimize Obama, I disagree that it's the media's doing. That's the same kind of nonsense that Fox Noise pulls. The media's only reporting what the Republicans are doing. As a former newspaper staff member, though, I have to admit in the old days a lot of it wouldn't get reported. Not because of the "liberal media conspiracy," but because a lot of the Republican b.s. makes no sense. Nowadays, "journalists" report everything. Which is why TMZ is wrongly considered "news" by some.

[montex]

63. If Bush had killed Bin Laden...

It would be the answer to every criticism from every journalist on every channel to anyone who dared question military spending, the deficit or the economy. But because Obama killed Osama, we don't hear about it at all. Most Americans believe that Seal Team 6 killed Bin Laden all on their own and just happened to inform the President long after they got their medals.

I'm convinced the Democratic Party is paid to lose. They don't fight, are always afraid and never stand up for the people or their principles. Our Democracy is long gone, replaced by a government for the rich, by the rich and the rest of us pay for it.

[deutsey]

91. Yes, the Democrats remind me of these guys

with the GOP doing this to them over and over again:

[joshcryer]

74. Obama hasn't received credit from the apolitical left.

But the ACA and stopping the Great Recession will be remembered and taught in schools. These are mere "footnotes," of course, because the "black man" didn't do what the purists wanted, exactly how they wanted it.

Every person reccing this thread and the other "Leave Michael Moore Alone!" posts are perpetuating the same right wing nonsense, and the latent racism in the very idea that Obama's only accomplishment to be remembered was his skin color.

[Romulox]

86. LOL. You are one of DU's silliest. Keep making us laugh! nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

108. That's like saying every thread about saving puppies kills a puppy.

[Doctor_J]

82. liberals didn't turn on anyone

The BOG and the dinos attacked a liberal, like they do every day.

[QC]

87. +1

[Marr]

141. +1, yep. Same old shit from the same old crew.

[L0oniX]

175. ^^^this^^^

[Romulox]

85. LOL at the people who think mandatory, for-profit insurance will be remembered fondly in 100 years.

[tridim]

89. Republican idiots I know IRL tell me the same thing.

And you know what, I laugh at THEM.

[Romulox]

93. He SAVED Aetna!!@!11!1!!!

[tridim]

99. No, they say things like, "I fucking hate Obamacare", as they are processing claims.

Smart guy.

[m-lekktor]

105. yeah that one made me LOL! nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

109. Did you see this?

http://www.mediaite.com/tv/chuck-todd-obama-on-verge-of-jimmy-carter-like-damage-to-dems/

[BlindTiresias]

177. Yep

The people scrambling to defend this as some progressive victory must be truly desperate for good news. Very sad.

[baldguy]

90. The idea that there is never a justification for war, ever, is a denial of reality.

The idea that America has not responsibility to help repair the damage we've done, or contain & eliminate the monsters we've created is morally abominable.

And to paint Obama as a bloodthirsty war-monger equal to or exceeding Bush, while he's simultaneously trying to clean up Bush's mess is just blindingly stupid, and just helps the Republicans.

[Romulox]

95. "It became necessary to destroy the town to save it." nt

[baldguy]

136. That's exactly what anti-Obama "liberals" say about the Democratic Party, isn't it?

Of course, that attitude only allows the Republicans to win.

[markpkessinger]

148. And the suggestion that more bombs will "repair the damage we've done" . . .

. . . is positively delusional.

[OilemFirchen]

103. Utter bullshit.

"Michael Moore says there are people trying to make Obama a mere footnote in history..."

Not once in the entirety of this short interview did he say that or allude to it. In fact, it was nothing more than cringe-worthy personal animus. You could literally see the bile rising in his throat.

As a fan of Moore, I'm as disappointed with him as he is with the President. He fucked up huge, and this rapid revisionism is disgusting.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

110. So, are you jumping on the "Michael Moore is a racist" bandwagon?

[OilemFirchen]

111. Did I say he was a racist?

So, thanks for the so. So are you jumping on the so you're a so-and-so bandwagon?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

112. Only if they need someone on the porcelain tuba.

[Cha]

158. "He fucked up huge".. and he's got his little pretzel brigade out covering his tracks, poorly.

[KamaAina]

125. That's one way to spin it, I suppose.

"All he'll be remembered for...".

Besides the "republican health care scam" , many of us will remember him for ending DLDT.

And of course, there's this guy:



Remember him? Everyone sure did yesterday.

[Progressive dog]

126. So we should face the fact that if

we dare oppose MM's claim that a Democratic President who gave us Obamacare, stopped the worst depression since the one under FDR, ended two wars, and got Bin Laden is only going to be remembered for being the first African American President, the Democratic party will collapse.
I choose not to. I know I don't belong to a party of people who would sink that low to get their own way. I know that my party is made up of people willing to make the compromises necessary to have a working country, not made up of people who would divide us over any and every issue. My party is not made up of the whiners who will belittle a Democratic President who has worked to achieve what he can.
I am proud that President Obama is President of our country. He will be remembered for his accomplishments.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

138. I have to keep reminding friends the "Change" was from this....

[arcane1]

127. But RACISM or something!!1

[rbrnmw]

128. How about not telling black folks what is or isn't racist

If you don't understand how offensive his remarks were to black folks, I can't make you understand it's been explained over and over.
How are we ever going to have civil discourse if you don't listen? Nobody said Michael Moore didn't have a right to disagree with the President of course he does. The only thing we said is saying the only thing President Obama will be remembered for is being the first black president is a racist statement.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

137. Taken like that? Yes it is. But that's not the way he said it.

[Damansarajaya]

130. Moore is right. Obama ran as a transformational president.

Of course, he couldn't match the reality with the perceptions every individual person saddled him with, that's a given. No, ma'am, he can't make your house payments.

But when you run as FDR, you don't get to say, "I did fine because I was as least as good as Clinton."

[Cha]

157. Moore is dead wrong. and so are you. but don't let the facts get in your way.

[Damansarajaya]

192. Thanks for the fact-free rebuttal. nt

[treestar]

168. What's a transformational President?

The Presidency is the same thing as it has been since 1793. Nobody can transform it.

FDR did not change it. And he had a cooperative Congress.

This talking point is empty.

[Damansarajaya]

191. Transformational in the sense that the president changes society.

Last edited Wed Sep 17, 2014, 05:55 PM - Edit history (1)

Obama said that Reagan was a "transformational president."

If you don't like Obama's term, maybe you should take it up with him.

[treestar]

193. How can the President change society?

that's vague to start with.

[Damansarajaya]

195. Reagan certainly changed society. FDR did more so. nt

Last edited Thu Sep 18, 2014, 05:37 PM - Edit history (1)

[treestar]

196. How?

And how on their own, with nothing else happening?

You really believe Reagan alone caused the culture of greed, etc? Wouldn't have happened? He was elected because of it.

When FDR was President, the people had the the will to change things. They elected a Congress too based on that, it was so strong. And it wouldn't have happened without the Depression. For all the exaggeration, this is not a depression on that level. It is absurd to think FDR could have, with an opposing Congress, and no Great Depression, gotten Congress to pass any of the New Deal laws.

The trouble with looking at the Presidency this way is that it abandons our responsibility for self government, and overlooks that the Presidency is not even supposed to be all powerful. Every POTUS gets pushback and that's how it's supposed to be.

[Damansarajaya]

198. Saying that you need a chicken to get an egg,

in no way precludes that fact that you need an egg to get a chicken too.

I mainly agree with what you wrote. People can demand change. But presidents can delay change or force change too.

[Marrah_G]

133. Those turning on Moore are, frankly, just hypocrites

[840high]

155. ...^ that

[Dont call me Shirley]

139. Oh and don't forget that Obama is really Kenyan born so he's illegitimately president

[redruddyred]

142. I like obama too.

he sold himself really hard tho. maybe too hard.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

152. 'Truth' is a slippery word.

MM has issued an opinion. A guess as to how Americans a century from now will remember things a hundred years in their past. That can't really be considered factual, since it hasn't even happened yet.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

172. The truth I mentioned is the way Obama hasn't received the credit he deserves.

[Jamastiene]

156. Lol, yer gonna need some Tuck's medicated pads

after this thread. I feel for ya.

[Mnpaul]

163. I don't know about the pads

but my chest is sore from laughing at all the hyperventilated outrage.

Moore doesn't get credit for all he does either. He gave us footage in F911 that no other media outlet would show. Most people don't even know it is there. It is very shocking and ugly footage.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

171. I can feel the luv all right.

[treestar]

164. What he said was Obama would be forgotten to an extent like say

Millard Fillmore or Grover Cleveland. Only remembered as the first black POTUS. What is "truth" about that? It's absurd on its face.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

173. Why do you think the Republicans are blocking everything?

[treestar]

184. They are fanatical morons

with a side of wanting the first black President to look incompetent, so as to help them believe that white people are superior.

That's not the way Mike was saying it. He was trying to say President Obama has accomplished nothing else.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

185. That's the way a lot of people WANT to take it.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

187. No, he was saying that Obama hasn't gotten credit for anything else.

[riderinthestorm]

169. I'm biracial and I agree. K & R. Nt

[frazzled]

178. It seems you wouldn't know a fact if it hit you in the face

How did you turn Moore's comments into a quasi-defense of Obama in the face of Republican attempts to "wipe out the Obama presidency"? That wasn't it at all.

The statement Moore made to the Hollywood reporter (check the video http://www.mediaite.com/online/michael-moore-slams-obama-all-hell-be-remembered-for-is-first-black-president/) was that Obama "has been a huge disappointment. ... And somebody needs to say to him ... I'll say it to him: When the history is written of this era, this is how you’ll be remembered: ‘He was the first black president.’ Okay, not a bad accomplishment, but that’s it. That’s it, Mr. Obama. A hundred years from now, ‘he was the first black American that got elected president.’ And that’s it. Eight years of your life and that’s what people are got to remember. Boy, I got a feeling, know you, that you’d probably wish you were remembered for a few other things, a few other things you could’ve done.”

Now how in blazes do you turn that into anything but Moore's own assessment of how, based on his disappointment (not the Republicans' shenanigans), that all Obama will be remembered for is being black?

That just makes me sad. I really thought he'd gotten more sensible; but now, all I can see is that he wants to get his first-class ticket to Toronto and go back to saying stupid shit.

[ucrdem]

179. MM also appears to think Obama is mayor of Detroit.

Not much truth in that little episode. Good rundown and thanks for the link.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

189. What will be funny is how many in a certain group will vanish when Obama is gone.

[QC]

197. One can only hope. n/t

[treestar]

188. Did he say anything like that about President Clinton?

He didn't get a single payer bill to sign either.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

190. He said Clinton and Dole had exactly the same positions. Which they did.

[QC]

194. He said that Bill Clinton was the best Republican president

America ever had.