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Thu Sep 11, 2014, 03:54 PM

"Oceania was at war with Eurasia; . . ."

" . . . therefore Oceania had always been at war with Eurasia." (George Orwell in 1984).

Think about it.

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Reply "Oceania was at war with Eurasia; . . ." (Original post)
markpkessinger Sep 2014 OP
KamaAina Sep 2014 #1
Jackpine Radical Sep 2014 #4
Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #2
MohRokTah Sep 2014 #3
GeorgeGist Sep 2014 #13
MohRokTah Sep 2014 #15
BrotherIvan Sep 2014 #31
truedelphi Sep 2014 #42
Boreal Sep 2014 #5
Octafish Sep 2014 #6
truedelphi Sep 2014 #20
Puzzledtraveller Sep 2014 #33
Action_Patrol Sep 2014 #7
Baitball Blogger Sep 2014 #8
Depaysement Sep 2014 #9
truedelphi Sep 2014 #18
DocMac Sep 2014 #22
LuvNewcastle Sep 2014 #26
truedelphi Sep 2014 #39
Depaysement Sep 2014 #34
truedelphi Sep 2014 #40
MisterP Sep 2014 #10
NRaleighLiberal Sep 2014 #11
Brigid Sep 2014 #12
FiveGoodMen Sep 2014 #14
truedelphi Sep 2014 #19
FiveGoodMen Sep 2014 #25
Progressive dog Sep 2014 #16
rogerashton Sep 2014 #28
Progressive dog Sep 2014 #30
Aristus Sep 2014 #36
LanternWaste Sep 2014 #37
Progressive dog Sep 2014 #38
truedelphi Sep 2014 #17
Hugabear Sep 2014 #21
another_liberal Sep 2014 #23
randome Sep 2014 #24
think Sep 2014 #27
truedelphi Sep 2014 #43
wandy Sep 2014 #29
brooklynite Sep 2014 #32
progressoid Sep 2014 #35
liberal_at_heart Sep 2014 #41
deutsey Sep 2014 #44

Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 03:56 PM

1. "Quite half of the posters had the wrong faces on them."

 

"Clearly the agents of Goldstein had been at work."

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Response to KamaAina (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:11 PM

4. That Goddam Manny is everywhere.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:08 PM

2. Already have, already have.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:10 PM

3. "There is no life I know to compare with pure imagination."

 

" Living there, you'll be free if you truly wish to be. " (Willy Wonka in the Chocolate Factory).

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Response to MohRokTah (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:42 PM

13. Wow.

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:44 PM

15. Appropriate, given the topic of the thread. eom

 

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Response to GeorgeGist (Reply #13)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 11:43 PM

31. Isn't war funny?

I really do think this comes from wars being kept so separate from American daily life. If you asked the great majority of people, they could not tell you with which countries are we currently at war. I can't keep track myself because we no longer call it war.

So it's easy to make jokes about it if it doesn't effect you. If you've never seen a bombed neighborhood or had a family member die. And that truly is frightening and just what Orwell was trying to convey.

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Response to BrotherIvan (Reply #31)

Sat Sep 13, 2014, 01:48 AM

42. And that person's choice of the enxt Presdient tells us a great deal too.

But I guess it doesn't matter, becuse no matter how bad things are, we can live in our imaginations!

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:22 PM

5. Oh, I've thought about it and

 

I've often thought that book has become the blueprint for the New World Order empire monster. I expect it to get worse before it gets better. I have never seen western governments more bellicose and dangerous. With the USD reserve currency status about to become history, we're going to witness some extreme and desperate moves by the war party. *shudder*

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:29 PM

6. ''Eastasia for the Eastasians!''

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Response to Octafish (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:04 PM

20. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^n/t

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Response to Octafish (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 11:57 PM

33. Octafish!!

I just can't settle on an explanation, for any or all of it, if I had to I would say what is happening is the psychological effect, component, intentional or not, of authoritarianism and that some people, and maybe a majority, will always be predisposed to "follow", "obey". With the apparatus, such as it is, constructed by and comprised of agencies and government, and all forms of media, news, entertainment, even fashion and food, the effect is far from accidental.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:31 PM

7. Fox

Yeah and the 2 Minutes Hate is an entire 24 hour *news* channel

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:34 PM

8. Those of us who read the book see the parallels.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 04:46 PM

9. It does seem that way, now doesn't it?

I have also noticed that ISIS looks a lot like somebody's intel operation.

This whole thing stinks like a rotting carcass.

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Response to Depaysement (Reply #9)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:03 PM

18. Where did all the high tech weaponry for ISIS come from?

Remember when the people in California were being foreclosed left and right, while the state and county governments had to lay off workers?

And so, end of summer, 2010, the governor of Calif. asked for a piddley 20 Billion dollar loan (Since we have 37 million people living in the state, it was not that big a figure.)

No, said the man who Obama works for, (one Tim Geithner), no, you really cannot have that loan, as it would contribute negatively to the budget situation.

Within the next thirteen months of that loan denial, some 55 billions of dollars of weaponry was outright GIVEN to Israel and members of UAE states.

And it is suspected that those UAE states have offered much of that weaponry to ISIS leaders!

Did this happen because our "leaders" are stoopid, or by design?!?

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:30 PM

22. Too much truth. You just calm down!

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #18)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:51 PM

26. A writer I read once explained it well.

Nobody can be as consistently wrong as much as our 'leaders' seem to be. The odds are against that happening. Even if they were guessing about which action to take each time, odds are that they would do the right thing occasionally, at least. Yet they always seem to do the wrong thing. It goes against the odds to say that they're merely incompetent.

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Response to LuvNewcastle (Reply #26)

Fri Sep 12, 2014, 10:36 PM

39. A most excellent explanation. Thanks LuvNewcastle. n/t

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #18)

Fri Sep 12, 2014, 06:38 AM

34. Do you have a link for that number?

It is a very useful stat. If no link, please tell me how you calculated the value of the weaponry given to Israel and the gulf states.

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Response to Depaysement (Reply #34)

Sat Sep 13, 2014, 01:36 AM

40. A friend of mine here on DU, she

Calulated that between Aug 2010 and Sept 2011, some 255 billionsof dollars of weaponry was either built, here in the USA, or distributed by the USA for use in our wars, or else for use to our allies.

I found one link, here, where a woman who is very pro-Israel is sounding off on how Obama is not helping Israel enough (Even though the USA gives Israel help with some 21% of its war budget - at least!)

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFbalance.html

In 2010, the U.S. alone (other countries also supply weapons to Arab states) planned to
sell $60.1 billion worth of some of America’s most sophisticated arms to Saudi Arabia (the
largest arms sale in U.S. history). Other Arab states were also offered large packages,
including the United Arab Emirates ($5.4 billion), Iraq ($4.9 billion), Oman ($3.6
billion), and Kuwait ($1.6 billion).


####
So in her talk, she discusses the billions of dollars of weaponry that the USA is to offer Israel's enemies in the Mid East.

Also, in 2008, George W Bush signed a Memorandum of Understanding with the government of Israel, stating that between 2009 and 2018, the USA would provide some 30 billions of dollars to Israel. Our aid to Israel is usually given in the form of weaponry.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:28 PM

10. Eastasia, you Eastasian spy!

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:32 PM

11. we watched the movie for the first time the other night. eerie resemblance indeed.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:40 PM

12. Been thinking about that line a lot lately.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:44 PM

14. I never stop thinking about it

When people are convinced that their guy can do no wrong ...

Then there's no wrong that he can't do.

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Response to FiveGoodMen (Reply #14)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:03 PM

19. Great quote, FiveGoodMen - mind if I use it? n/t

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #19)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:50 PM

25. Please feel free to!

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:52 PM

16. I read fiction for entertainment,

and I don't think of novelists as soothsayers. That's especially true when the story is more than 25 years past it's expiration date.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #16)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 07:49 PM

28. The year was not known in the story.

read it.

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Response to rogerashton (Reply #28)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 07:54 PM

30. That's where the title cane from,

I thought everyone knew that.

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Response to rogerashton (Reply #28)

Fri Sep 12, 2014, 03:53 PM

36. Yes and no.

Winston Smith dated his journal '1984' but immediately acknowledges that he's not at all sure if that is the correct year.

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Response to Progressive dog (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 12, 2014, 03:56 PM

37. “Fiction reveals truth that reality obscures.”

I imagine there are many people, myself included who agree with Jessamine West's statement that “Fiction reveals truth that reality obscures.”

However I can readily understand the ethical convenience in perceiving writers that people may take more seriously than do you as mere "soothsayers."

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #37)

Fri Sep 12, 2014, 04:29 PM

38. I'll bet there is even a quote out

there that claims fiction writers can predict the future. That doesn't make it true.
Is there even one nation, ever, that closely resembled the one in 1984? Obviously, the answer is no.
Are there lots of non-fiction works about nations that did and do exist? Obviously, the answer is yes.
So why would anyone choose a fictional unbelievable world as their model for the real world? The people who do this will have to answer that.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 05:58 PM

17. Meanwhile, a third of city of Lucerne's residents were just red-tagged for

Maruijuana cultivation!

Lake County residents here in Northern Calif. are under attack.

Cannot have anything that promotes peace love and understanding growing freely in people's back yards.I mean, Big Brother does not like LOVE.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:07 PM

21. We have always been at war with terror!

And terror has always been at war with the West, for they hate our freedom.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:31 PM

23. Double Plus Good!

 

War is Peace . . .

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 06:32 PM

24. Other than 1984 being a work of fiction...sure.

 

[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.
[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #24)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 07:14 PM

27. Smedley Butler wasn't....

 

Smedley Butler

Smedley Darlington Butler[1] (July 30, 1881 – June 21, 1940) was a United States Marine Corps major general, the highest rank authorized at that time, and at the time of his death the most decorated Marine in U.S. history. During his 34-year career as a Marine, he participated in military actions in the Philippines, China, in Central America and the Caribbean during the Banana Wars, and France in World War I. Butler is well known for having later become an outspoken critic of U.S. wars and their consequences, as well as exposing the Business Plot, a purported plan to overthrow the U.S. government.

By the end of his career, Butler had received 16 medals, five for heroism. He is one of 19 men to receive the Medal of Honor twice, one of three to be awarded both the Marine Corps Brevet Medal and the Medal of Honor, and the only Marine to be awarded the Brevet Medal and two Medals of Honor, all for separate actions.

In 1933, he became involved in a controversy known as the Business Plot, when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists were planning a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt, with Butler selected to lead a march of veterans to become dictator, similar to other Fascist regimes at that time. The individuals involved all denied the existence of a plot and the media ridiculed the allegations. A final report by a special House of Representatives Committee confirmed some of Butler's testimony.

~Snip~

I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class muscle man for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

~Snip~

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

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Response to randome (Reply #24)

Tue Sep 16, 2014, 06:27 AM

43. Perhaps it is classified as a work of fiction, but it works as a pretty terrifying

portrayal of the gestalt of almost every aspect of current modern day life.

Its main competition as a descriptor of modern life is the movie "Idiocracy."

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 07:53 PM

29. William Neal Harrison did a pretty good job explaining how we got there...........

Rollerball Murder
In the near future, there will only be corporations, comfort, conformity & Rollerball. In the very near future, they will produce a war every week during prime time & televise it to the rest of the world. They will call it Rollerball.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4339742-rollerball-murder

Yes, it was made into a movie.
No, we are not satisfied with a made up weekly sport war. We do the real thing or a school shooting or a militarized police action or a Bundy Cow-Pie rebellion.
Televised to the entire world 24/7.

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Thu Sep 11, 2014, 11:56 PM

32. I don't remember Oceania holding free elections...

 

...but you probably think that was rigged as well?

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Fri Sep 12, 2014, 03:50 PM

35. ...

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Sat Sep 13, 2014, 01:39 AM

41. K&R

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Response to markpkessinger (Original post)

Tue Sep 16, 2014, 07:02 AM

44. "1984" was a cautionary tale

that we have failed to heed in many ways.

Of course, others have apparently read it as a how-to guide.

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