For those of you criticizing (victim-blaming) Janay Palmer for marrying Ray Rice:

[pnwmom]

were you aware that she already had a baby with him? That she must have felt she was already bound to him through that child?

I hope she gets some help now in taking the child and leaving -- but the courts in most states are still likely to award him shared custody, even with proof of domestic violence.

http://www.myk104.com/dede/ray-rice-uppercuts-his-way-to-the-media/

[ZombieHorde]

1. Life is messy. nt

[shenmue]

2. It's awful

[jamzrockz]

3. it would have looked

so much better if she left before this ban. She leaves now and it would look like she only stay/married him for the money. Not saying that she should never leave now that he is banned from football and lost a lot of money. But if I were her, I would give it at least 1 year before leaving.

[Sheldon Cooper]

4. Yeah, I would absolutely put up with another year's worth of beatings.

Lord knows I wouldn't want to look bad.

[sufrommich]

5. Some of these posts are crazy making for me.

What the fucking fuck? (I'm not talking about your post)

[arcane1]

10. Your Sheldon gifs are perfect for that response

[jamzrockz]

12. Ofc my comment

was contingent on the fact he continues to behave himself, doing well in the marriage counseling etc etc. If he shows any sign of aggression, she should leave immediately him having a contract or not. Because next time he attacks her, she may not live to tell the story

[pnwmom]

23. You're assuming he never hit her before. The next time she could be dead. n/t

[cwydro]

73. I'd bet he has hit her before.

I am sure of that.

[pnwmom]

74. Me, too. If this was the first time, he would have been shocked and remorseful.

He would have been on the floor trying to hold her, not casually poking her with his foot.

[rhett o rick]

46. If he yelled at her or maybe slapped her, maybe, just maybe he'd get a second chance.

If he punches her in the face and knocks her unconscious, there are no more chances. He should spend time in jail.

[Lefta Dissenter]

53. punches and knocks her out

and then drags her and boots her around like a rag doll.

Yeah, he's used up his chances.

[DocMac]

56. plus all I have in my bucket...a lot!

[fishwax]

6. wow. Really?

[leftstreet]

7. Because women should always worry about how things 'look'

Jesus Jumping Christ on a Pogo Stick

What is wrong with people?

Maybe she had no emotional support before now. Who gives a shit how this makes her look?

No one knows what she perceived her options were prior to this very public incident

ffs

[jamzrockz]

9. Then why

marry him and then she just go ahead and divorce him the moment he loses his NFL contract? Sorry but if she really believes that he is still a dangerous man who is not going to change, then you do not marry the man after he assaults you in public or private

[leftstreet]

13. You don't know what she thought

You don't know if the public contract loss> brought the media attention> brought her the support she needed> to leave

Why would anyone would be concerned with how this woman 'looks' when she leaves, but not concerned with how the assclown wifebeater 'looks'

[pnwmom]

20. The NFL and Rice were obviously pressuring her to have that press conference and to go through

with the marriage.

And she was wanting to believe that he would change, as most victims of domestic violence do -- especially when there are children involved.

But since then she's had time to think, and the public reaction has probably opened her eyes, too. She didn't deserve what happened to her. Period. And he doesn't deserve her.

[jamzrockz]

25. That's ok

Last edited Tue Sep 9, 2014, 09:00 AM - Edit history (1)

I know there is a low chance for an abuser to all of a sudden stop abusing. But at the same time, her opening up her eyes the same time he loses everything still looks bad. it would appear that him losing his money was a bigger motivator than him putting his hands on her.

I just wish she would have left a lot sooner before any of this was announced.

[sheshe2]

41. There is not a low chance for an abuser to stop abusing,

there is no chance.

[Lefta Dissenter]

54. ^^that^^ (n/t)

[daschess1987]

69. Did you even watch the video?

He'll kill her if she stays with him! Who gives a DAMN how "it would appear?"

[TBF]

76. Do you have any clue what it is like to be a single woman

with a child?

Your responses seem insensitive and show little empathy for what she was going through. Maybe she didn't have family/friends to turn to? Many women, even if they do have a support system, will try against odds to make a relationship work because they think if they are successful it will be better for their children. In cases of divorce we all have come across friends who may have access to their kids every other weekend - but they really have little to say about what happens to their kids when they are with the other parent (unless someone actually does get hurt - you have to prove harm - before the protective orders are granted). It's not always as simple for women as "leave and stay away from him" - that child complicates matters and it may well have blinded her judgment.

[chervilant]

42. There are a number of books

that can help you understand the dynamics of relationship violence. I suggest that you peruse some of the better known books before you comment further on something you clearly don't understand.

Among the best:

The Battered Woman (Lenore Walker)

Ending the Violence (Ron Thorne-Finch)

The Verbally Abusive Relationship (Patricia Evans)

There are countless others.

[gollygee]

47. Maybe she feels safer now that the eyes of the world are on him?

It's really her business and no one else's. How about if we give people the benefit of the doubt, and not expect them to endure difficulty they don't have to because of "how it looks."

[nomorenomore08]

62. That's what I was thinking too. n/t

[likesmountains 52]

55. Listen to this Harvard grd talk about her relationship..

https://www.ted.com/talks/leslie_morgan_steiner_why_domestic_violence_victims_don_t_leave

[elehhhhna]

16. wtf?

really?

[jamzrockz]

18. Why is everyone acting as if I am speaking Chinese?

Am I the only one that sees problem with a woman/man marrying a man/woman when he/she has a multimillion dollar contract and then leaving him/her immediately after the contract is lost? I am talking about if there are no new domestic assaults from him.

[TDale313]

27. Quite frankly, yes.

You're the only one here who thinks she should stay with her fucking abuser because it might look bad to leave his ass now. But thanks for asking.

[leftstreet]

28. So what?

Hello...lots and LOTS of relationships crumble due to financial problems

Why so hard on her?

[niyad]

30. no, you are apparently speaking as one who does not understand the first thing about

domestic violence--"if no new domestic assaults", etc., etc. those of us who work, or have worked, in this field, or have unfortunate first-hand experience with it, find your comments woefully ignorant, not to mention, painful in the extreme.

[daschess1987]

70. Exactly!

He never saw his mom get coffee thrown in her face and choked when he was in fifth grade. He never grabbed a baseball bat, only to have his sister tell him to stop or he'd kill us all. He never ran a half mile on gravel in his bare feet to call the sheriff. (I'm assuming that poster is male because I can't imagine a woman being that insensitive or ignorant about the subject).

[niyad]

82. it sounds like there really was nobody there for you and your family. please know how very sorry

I am that you had to endure that horror.

[daschess1987]

84. Thank you, niyad!

That really does mean a lot to me.

[pnwmom]

33. Here's an article that might explain it better than some of us have been doing.

Does this make it clearer? The author talks about how two lovers become emotionally bound to each other. When the author talks about a "betrayal," one of the examples she gives is of the abuser punching the other person.

http://www.commdiginews.com/sports/why-janay-rice-and-other-domestic-violence-victims-dont-leave-18179/

SNIP

As a result of these betrayals, the victim experiences confusion, shock, and trauma. A new type of bond is formed: a betrayal bond often referred to as a trauma bond. The victim does not see these betrayals and traumas for what they are due to the immediate onset of cognitive dissonance. In this state of confusion and dissonance, the victim attempts to make sense of two co-occurring yet opposing bonds: the love bond and the betrayal bond. And because the love bond feels better and is perceived and preferred by the victim to be “the bond” that holds the couple together, victims, in a state of hypervigilance, attempt to dismiss and minimize the betrayal bond and do whatever they can to build, nurture, and maintain the love bond.

Therefore, it can be concluded that by the time the first betrayal or trauma event takes place, the victim is already an addict. The betrayal and trauma event simply seals the addiction, making it that much harder to quit the relationship.

This can explain why Janay Rice may have married Ray Rice. Not only did she desperately want to prove her love and devotion to Ray, she wanted to minimize the betrayal, and marrying Ray meant Janay would no longer be obligated, under the law, to testify against him. Essentially, if she is not obligated to address the assault/offense against her, the sooner the offense, the betrayal, can be forgotten and put in her past.

Ironically, instead of blaming the abuser for the betrayal and abuse, the victim blames him/herself for causing the betrayal, “I did not show him/her enough love. That’s why this happened. What can I do to make up for this? How can I make sure this doesn’t happen again? I want to be seen as his/her soul mate and the love of his/her life again! I need to get back to that place in his/her heart.”


SNIP

[sheshe2]

44. Actually I fear for her....

Who the hell do you think will be the target of his anger now that he has lost that contract? She will. If I were her I would run like hell before she winds up dead.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

78. Agree

I totally agree. She is going to take the brunt of his anger.

Too bad she didn't just take what would have been a very nice child support check instead of marrying him. Of course, then he could have gone on to abuse the next woman.

[Ilsa]

45. Has it occurred to you that the loss pf the contract might

Send him completely over the edge? He might kill her and their child. She needs to be worried about her safety and her child's safety, not how she looks in the eyes of some assholes who don't realize how bad it can get.

[gollygee]

48. You're acting like that's all happening in a vacuum

She can leave him whenever she feels like she's ready and able. It is no one's place to judge.

[nomorenomore08]

63. "Am I the only one that sees problem with a woman/man marrying a man/woman when he/she has a

multimillion dollar contract and then leaving him/her immediately after the contract is lost?"

Normally I might raise an eyebrow at that. But considering he beat her unconscious, no.

[Dorian Gray]

75. I hope you are the only one

who would see that "problem."

I'm hoping that now that this is so very public, she will get the family and friend support to leave his ass.

[pnwmom]

19. Who cares what idiots think? She went through the marriage that was already planned --

under pressure from Rice and the NFL (and maybe even an abusive family, who knows?) She had a child with him, so she tried to make the relationship work, and in the flurry of emotions after the attack, she hung onto hope.

But no one with any sense will blame her for finally leaving him, whenever that happens.

[DURHAM D]

37. Apparently they even moved the wedding date up.

I can only assume this was because of pressure from the Ravens, Rice and the NFL to improve appearances. Public relations are all important to that group.

I can not even imagine how all alone she felt with all the forces working against her. The Commissioner of the NFL interviewed her about the incident with Rice present thus breaking the first rule of how to handle a domestic violence matter. I hope she has Gloria Allred's phone number.

[pnwmom]

39. Their behavior was reprehensible. I hope there's some legal basis for her suing them. nt

[Arkansas Granny]

8. Baby or not, I don't understand why a woman would marry a man who

had already proved himself to be abusive. Paternity can be established without marriage.

[pnwmom]

11. Victims of domestic violence often blame themselves, as she was ENCOURAGED to do

at the press conference, and by the NFL.

She blamed herself, and she was already bound to him by the child. The marriage probably seemed like just a piece of paper that would give her more rights in the situation. She wasn't thinking clearly, but many victims like her are too intimidated to make the best decisions.

[sufrommich]

14. Thank you. nt

[Ilsa]

49. There are many reasons why women stay with abusers.

Some of them grow up in abusive homes and think it's normal. Some have zero self esteem and are the perfect victims for these manipulators.

We don't know if she had any support from family, encouragement to stay or leave, and maybe he told her he'd kill her if she tried to go.

[napi21]

15. Yes, I think she should have left him, but it is her decision. My cousin was a Psychologist,

hd his own practice for quit a few years. (He has since died) We were talking about football one day and he admitted he had a few pros who were his patients. I asked him, certainly without divulging any privacy, if football players were, by the nature of their profession, prone to domestic violence. He said yes. Every hour of their training and playing the game they're condiitioned to attack their opposition. It's sometimes difficult to completely remove that from everyday life.

[elehhhhna]

17. the steroids don't help either

[mopinko]

40. ^^^^^ my first question

how long has he been taking them. roid rage.

[spooky3]

32. Maybe, but if he punched someone on the football

Field as he did in the elevator, he would have been penalized, fined, kicked out of the game, suspended, etc. That can hardly be considered part of football's "attacking."

[dballance]

50. Players in the NFL don't have to punch others on the field.

Players in the NFL are given license to hit the opposing team as hard as possible. They get their aggression out without having to have a fist-fight.

[spooky3]

52. My point is that certain types of hits are an

Acceptable part of football. A savage punch to an unprotected face is not. Players are capable of making those distinctions even in a context where some hits are allowed. If they are capable of doing that in that context, then football as a sport doesn't account for why a few of them punch others off the field.

[bettyellen]

61. they are conditioned to be very physically agressive, it can become a habit.

men who are agressive around other men, are more prone to beating women as well. You didn't know that?
Well, now you do.

[DocMac]

57. I played seven years of football

from midget league to high school...then joined the Marine Corp. Not even once did I think of dobbing anyone like that.

Put me in a space with Ray and see if he reacts like that. I know he wouldn't.

[cui bono]

21. Which football hoodlum is this? The elevator guy?

It's hard to keep track.

[pnwmom]

22. Yeah, the elevator punch guy. n/t

[cui bono]

24. Yeah, just looked it up and saw that.

Did she marry him after that elevator incident?

I don't think a baby is a good reason to marry an abusive person. Most of the time it's low self-esteem and fear that keep someone with an abusive partner. Unfortunately it takes them realizing they are worth more than than that and deserve better before they break free. I can see her having been manipulated in some way to marry him, be it via emotional games or whatever and if she didn't have high self-esteem then that's what happens.

It's so important to teach young girls they are worthy and deserving of all the respect in the world so they don't settle for assholes like that.

[pnwmom]

26. Of course it's a terrible reason to get married.

But I'm sure it happens. And don't forget all the pressure she was under -- both from him and the whole NFL -- to push this whole incident under the carpet. Getting married was supposed to make it all go away.

[underthematrix]

29. I fear for her safety and that of their child

[dflprincess]

34. I do too

You know Price is not going to accept that it's his fault and only his fault that he's been dropped.

[ann---]

65. Me, too

especially since he's been fired. I'm hoping the next news we hear about her isn't that she's dead.

[Omaha Steve]

31. K&R!

As someone that talks to victims often during the work day, it is time to stop blaming the vicitim.

[AuntPatsy]

36. ;)

[dflprincess]

35. Keith Olbermann lets us know who is actually to blame

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025506668


I miss Keith.

[Logical]

60. Wow, that was great! Thanks! nt

[Cleita]

38. I wondered about that but what you said makes sense.

If it's you yourself alone, it's different than you and a child. I hope she gets the help to figure this out. Maybe he'll get the help he needs too and can change.

[msongs]

43. people put up with stuff until it goes beyond what that person thinks he/she deserves. then they

leave.

[Cleita]

51. +++

[VA_Jill]

58. If you haven't been there

then you freaking DO NOT KNOW and you should not presume to say word one about her. If you have walked a mile in her shoes or you have worked with her sisters who have been abused, then you will know what I mean.

[mackerel]

59. She married him shortly after this incident, which leads me to believe

The Raven PR machine was at work. TMZ gets it's hands on the security video and now The Ravens suddenly don't want to have anything to do with The Rice's. I'm guessing she was under a lot of pressure and made a decision that seemed right against all these suits coming at her. She is young and may not have consulted her own attorney.

[pnwmom]

66. I'm sure they put a ton of pressure on her. Their behavior was outrageous. n/t

[ann---]

64. What good does

marrying an abuser because you have his child mean when you might be dead the next time he hits you and then the child has no one to protect it?

I don't know what HER reasons are for marrying him after that, but I can tell you, even if that were the FIRST time a man hit me, I'd be gone immediately, one kid or ten kids is beside the point.

[pnwmom]

67. It was a poor -- but understandable -- decision. Many victims of domestic violence

have trouble separating themselves from their abusers -- and when you have a small child, it's even harder.

[lovemydog]

68. Thanks pnwmom.

[Quantess]

71. I still wouldn't marry him!

Those are not the choices I would have made.

There is no way I would choose to stay with a physically abusive man, no matter how much money he has. For me, I would have been gone from the first sign or threat of violence.

She can do whatever she wants. Marry an abusive man who knocked her unconscious!

There is no way in hell I would choose to stay with that guy.

[pnwmom]

72. That's because you are an emotionally healthy person. But women who stay in relationships

with abusive men are not. And many of them, unfortunately, grew up in similar situations -- so abusive men might seem normal to them.

[ProfessorGAC]

77. After That Video. . .

. . .can't see how anybody can fault anybody but him. I already felt that way, but after the video, everybody should.

[justiceischeap]

79. I'll share a story here that I shared in another thread

My father was physically, verbally and emotionally abusive as I was growing up. There was an incident when I was 15 over a cat where he almost broke my back and I told him if he ever touched me again, I'd call the police on him--he threw me out of the house after saying that and my mother told him if he didn't bring me back and apologize, she was leaving. I was brought home later that night (it was winter and I didn't have a coat or shoes when he threw me out). Anyway, he is still mentally and verbally abusive and my mothers' only caretaker (she has Parkinsons' and Emphysema) and complains that all she does is sleep and goodness only knows what else he does to her. We've urged her to leave (my sister in Washington state has offered her home to my mom) but my mom won't leave. It isn't because she thinks she deserves this behavior but because she feels sorry for my dad (if my Dad sounds awful, you should hear about the things his father did--which explains but doesn't excuse my fathers behavior) and is used to his behavior.

When I was little, kindergarten maybe, my mom threatened to leave my dad (she had a place to go and everything) and my dad's reply was if she left, he'd take me and run and she'd never see me again. She believed him then and I believe to this day he would have done that. My father is not a millionaire with powerful attorney's at his beck and call. He was a lower middle-class working guy who would have stolen me to spite my mother for having the audacity to leave his abusive ass. So she made the decision to stay so she could watch out for me and raise me to be as independent as she wasn't--so we both ended up being abused but my mom did her best to protect me from it until I turned 15 and I started protecting her from him. To this day I am the only one in the family that can "shout him down" without reprisal when he starts acting like an ass (which is often).

So, though my father never smacked my mother around (that was reserved for us kids who couldn't fight back), he still abused her emotionally and mentally. You don't know what goes on behind closed doors and you don't know what, if any, threats were leveled at Janay Palmer to make her marry him. If someone threatened to take your yet unborn child and you believed him or her, what would you do? I'm not suggesting this is the case here but it very well could be--it certainly is powerful leverage.

[pnwmom]

80. Thank you for your understanding post. Hopefully it opened some eyes.

I'd just note that their child is already a beautiful little toddler. (Her picture's at the link in the OP.) Of course the mother's first priority is taking care of her. You and I know that staying with him is not the best way to do that, but we know how much pressure she must have been under to marry him.

[justiceischeap]

81. I don't know how long they've been together

but she could very well feel as invested in his career as he does. I see that happen a lot with women who marry pro athletes (and politicians). They become so invested in that career that they'll often overlook things (like abuse or cheating) so it doesn't hinder the mans' career. Makes no sense but it happens.