So, Joan Rivers said terrible things? She was grating?

[WilliamPitt]

So have Louis CK, Jim Norton, Sam Kinison, Richard Pryor, Bill Burr, etc...

...so what's the difference?

She was a woman in a "man's job"?

Perish the thought that she'd be judged differently for doing exactly what the boys do.

*koff*

[LittleBlue]

1. If any of them had made the kind of comments she made about

innocent people dying, I'd have equally little sympathy for them.

[WilliamPitt]

6. Thanks for the kick

and welcome back.

[roguevalley]

109. agreed. calling michelle obama a tranny as well. she was unbearable in her commentary and

So are the rest

[yeoman6987]

130. I think for the super majority are keeping her death classy

I think most understand that she may have had diminished mental factors the last year of her life. Clearly she said two horrible statements that were way over the top even for her. Everyone seems to be looking at her life as a whole. It will be interesting to hear what the President says about her. I bet it will be very kind. The president doesn't have a nasty bone in his body.

[hlthe2b]

2. I look at her lifetime legacy

and yes, she did open doors for other women comics. For that she deserves accolades. She also was treated shabbily--as have many in entertainment, but especially women of that era. And yes, she rose above both the career crap and the personal tragedies to become a respected fixture in the business.

That said, the comment re: Palestinians deserving to die is not "black comedy".... She may have meant to say something different, but sadly, she did not live long enough to move past that dreadful comment. --> Seems a lesson for us all. NO one knows if today is our last, so some of that horrendously hyperbolic and emotion filled commenting surely could haunt us

Still, I look at the lifetime of the person and career... not simply the most recent.

[ann---]

3. Yes, she did

and I am sorry for her family that she is gone and they will probably miss her.

Personally, I have no respect for her, or other "Don Rickles" type of comedians, who make a lot of money because some people think attacking others mercilessly is funny.

[LibGranny]

33. Thank you! My sentiment exactly re Joan Rivers.

She ceased being funny probably in the 70's and became hateful and snide! Sorry for her family but . . . . my first thought when I heard this was "karma!"

[elehhhhna]

64. her karma was to work and be a star til she was 81 and die in no pain

surrounded by devoted family? Cool for her. I'd take that.

[amuse bouche]

73. Karma is BS

[rhett o rick]

89. Karma is misunderstood by most Americans. nm

[amuse bouche]

117. Well if they understood it had to do with reincarnation and previous lives

it would still be bullshit

[zonkers]

156. Yes! I am so sick of hearing about karma.

[Paper Roses]

37. I agree. n/t

[SoCalDem]

43. Agree. and now Melissa can start living hER life..not as a prop in her Mom's life.

Comedians/comediennes have always skewered the public. but when they cross the lines, they know they will lose some of their audience. She chose to be hateful when she probably could have chosen not to be, and many fans became former fans.

She had a peaceful death, and a long life..and now her family will move on like any other family.

[ann---]

47. Yep....I really like Melissa

I didn't watch their shows at all, but sometimes caught the remarks on the Oscar's red carpet. It was actually painful for me to look at Joan's face - it looked like it must hurt her. May she rest in peace and wish her family the best.

[PatrynXX]

48. never thought of her as a comedian

yet thats what all the headlines are running her as. Huh? She's a Fashion commentator. Other than that I have no idea. she was always annoying. George Burns was a comedian... Think she was going senile and thought so after her argument that 2000 people deserved to die. Though hey joan calm down thats not good for your health Sigh.

[elehhhhna]

65. the first 45 years of her career she was a top comedian

the last 15 she did that other stuff

[leftynyc]

134. You must be young

She didn't start being a fashion commentator until after her husband died in 1987. Until then she was a comic.

[HERVEPA]

78. You didn't get Don Rickles

He was a nice guy, and it was always clear he did not dislike the people he was commenting, it was part of his act. Joan Rivers, not so much.

[JaneyVee]

4. She was one of a kind. That said...

I think her recent comments crossed the line from comedy to savagery.

[MineralMan]

7. Do you really want to know? I doubt it.

She made me laugh sometimes. She made me angry sometimes. She was an entertainer. Beyond that, she was just an entertainer, and I don't know anything more about her, since I never met her.

She died. That's sad for those who did know her, I'm sure.

[joeybee12]

8. At the end, Joan wanted to shock, because she thought that people were far

too easily offended these days.

She was a trailblazer, and if anyone says otherwise, they need a history lesson. KNR

[DocMac]

85. She wanted to be another Don Rickles.

It didn't really work well for her.

[Lurks Often]

9. Being an insult comic means walking a very fine line

and it can be very subjective. I think Don Rickles is very funny, but I didn't find many of those that came after him and tried to do that style of comedy to be funny and I include Joan Rivers in that second category. I can't say why I find Don Rickles funny and the others unfunny, just the way it is.

Certainly I am not rejoicing in her death and my sympathies go out to her family.

[kentuck]

10. Joan was not for the faint of heart...

She was irreverent and very funny. Nobody was off-limits. People will see her in different ways, I assume?

Edited feint - Thanks Mineral Man!

[MineralMan]

19. Feints:

[kentuck]

23. Thanks!

Fixed.

[MineralMan]

95. Just couldn't resist...

[TwilightGardener]

11. "What's the difference?" Being funny.

Plenty of hilarious females. She wasn't one of them.

[RobinA]

146. My Thoughts

exactly. She was a bully who went after mostly women for laughs. Ugh. I hope she was happy in life, because she seemed rather sad to me.

[MineralMan]

12. Joan Rivers would be PPRed on DU within a week.

MIRT would get her.

[B2G]

13. So would most people outside of the very devoted

and very cautious.

[xchrom]

15. +1

[840high]

116. Yep. I liked her - may

she rest in peace.

[Boom Sound 416]

14. Not in the least. Nt

[underpants]

16. Being quiet and nice does not make for change

I was not aware of her recent comments. Who cares. She was a trailblazer.

[roguevalley]

110. i do. lack of concern for dead children makes me care

[Scootaloo]

153. Well, if it were your ethnic group she had wished death upon, you might care

A ten-minute symphony piece can be breathtaking and inspiring for the first nine minutes... but it'll be the kazoo solo at the last minute that sticks with people.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

17. My condolences to her family. May she rest in peace.

[Baitball Blogger]

18. You know what they say. If you can't say something nice about someone,

maybe you're a comedian.

(She would have appreciated the joke.)

[MFM008]

20. distaste of her

never liked her but at least she was lucky enough to have her family with her in the end.

[Jenoch]

21. I saw Joan Rivers in person at a convention many years ago.

She refused to go on stage at the appointed time for some reason. She was being difficult. Gary Owens happened to be there and he adlibbed for 20 minutes and was much more entertaining without any preparation than Joan Rivers was using prepared material.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

22. That's all well and good, but what was she wearing?

[Ilsa]

26. I don't even get that joke, except for

the fact that these special gowns are supposed to be worn only once. I don't understand the "Irish lesbian...red carpet" reference.

[LordGlenconner]

30. It's a reference to many from Ireland having red hair

The carpet is in reference to pubic hair.

[msanthrope]

101. You never heard of the carpet matching the drapes? And Ireland has a lot of gingers. nt

[Ilsa]

111. I guess I'm naive. That is one expression

For that which I missed somehow.

[emulatorloo]

136. Translation: "Does s/he dye his/her hair?"

If my drapes are blond and my carpet is brown means I am a bottle blonde.

[emulatorloo]

137. She was a pioneer and tough as nails

Very resilient and a fighter. Made so many damn successful comebacks, which is very inspiring to me. Gonna miss her.

[Raine]

24. I have nothing good I can say about her so I'll leave it at that. nt

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

25. She made the Michelle comments three years ago, at least

Another swing and a miss, Will. Nice try though.

[Arugula Latte]

27. The main thing about her that bothered me was her obsession over other women's looks

The hypocrisy of someone who made herself look like a freakish space alien through plastic surgery dissing other women 24/7 ... well, it got old fast.

But, condolences to her family.

[progressoid]

100. Yep.

And too often she crossed the line from good natured ribbing into nasty insults.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

28. She wasn't my style of comedian.

Last edited Thu Sep 4, 2014, 05:33 PM - Edit history (1)

But she had family and fans and her name's not Dick Cheney, so I have no problem with other people celebrating her life and career.

[TNNurse]

69. My current favorite comment on any subject.

[Ilsa]

29. I could take her or leave her. But I hope she rests in peace

and my condolences to her family.

Fact is, every one says stupid, hurtful shit sometimes. She shouldn't have said what she did about the Palestinians.

[Anansi1171]

31. Well said! To brand her a "racist" is both unnecessary...

...and in extremely poor taste.

[Catherine Vincent]

32. I'll give it a day...

I'll give it a day til some republican claim the first lady somehow had something to do with this because of the transvestite insult.

[951-Riverside]

34. She called the First Lady "Blackie-O" and a "Tranny"

Joan was nothing more than a troll and a bully.

The only difference between her in an internet troll is that she didn't hide behind a computer to spew her hate and vile. She did it in person and a national stage.

[HomerRamone]

50. She made jokes at Barbara Bush's expense, too

http://books.google.com/books?id=q0qdrPsi0eEC&pg=PA368&lpg=PA368&dq=Joan+Rivers+on+Barbara+Bush&source=bl&ots=VwCw3GEhxM&sig=AzRrCI78z_a_7VnOJIor8sBqLPM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sNYIVMeNJtT-yQTu-oDwCQ&ved=0CFYQ6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=Joan%20Rivers%20on%20Barbara%20Bush&f=false

[KG]

35. meh. never gave her much thought as a comedienne. then she turned into a boring pseudo-celeb.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

39. This

By the end she was little more than an honorary Kardashian.

The amount of praise being heaped on her is mind-numbing.

[deutsey]

122. Same here

I've seen some of her bits that I found funny, but I've been largely indifferent to her career in general.

[NYC_SKP]

36. I never found her particularly funny. Later, her shtick became just dishing other people. Tiresome.

Then, later still, she went off her rocker.

And, I don't know that her sex has much to do with the shit she's taking. All assholes look alike. Trust me, I've seen hundreds of 'em.

I think women are pretty well represented in comedy, and my all time favorites are women.

[Lars39]

41. And don't forget Phyllis Diller!

[NYC_SKP]

46. One of my favorites!

Actually, Rivers gives a lot of credit to Diller for opening things up for women.

[Lars39]

51. Glad to hear that!

PD gets skipped over a bit when "groundbreaking" is mentioned.

[ann---]

49. Oh, Phyllis Diller was great!

Last edited Thu Sep 4, 2014, 05:59 PM - Edit history (1)

[ReRe]

38. I had to think about this a minute...

... this afternoon. And I will go along with you, Will. But that last rant on camera was a hard one to climb over, I will say. She was a go-getter, right up to the end.

[NightWatcher]

40. The red carpet/fashion/reality show schtick was about as funny as a tooth ache

[PeaceNikki]

42. Louis CK? I don't think so.

[Duppers]

44. NO.

No respect for her.

[Boom Sound 416]

45. Should be alerted for ageism

'She was funny until she got old and shit'

Is that your post?

[WilliamPitt]

56. Oh, for God's sake.

[Boom Sound 416]

71. And the kitten's

Give me a break. The woman had a 50 year carreer and on the day she dies you pick on her for being old and senile.

She has more gigs booked dead than you could dream.

Maybe its jealousy.

[WilliamPitt]

77. Exactly how in the wide world of fuck

did I "pick on her"?

I don't know if you've noticed, but a large portion of the folks here are dumping all over her for comments she made in her final days. My point - which should be self-evident - is that we should not judge her on those words alone...which means, ermahgerd, exactly the opposite of your gobbldeygook.

Fail = you.

[Boom Sound 416]

82. What are you the ministry of truth. EDIT FAIL

Nice edit = FAIL

"And P.S., the insane gibberish about Michelle Obama and Palestinians she coughed up recently? I'm human enough to chalk that up to a deteriorating mind scant weeks from death. How about you?"

Did you seriously respond and edit your OP???

[Dawgs]

124. Nice try, but she said a stupid shit OVER THE YEARS.. not just in her final days. n/t

[Skittles]

120. you're hurting their widdle feelings

Joan would have howled

[LanternWaste]

150. Go ahead... by all means alert.

Go ahead... by all means alert.

I'd get a good laugh from reading variations from jurist's comments re: just how incredibly petulant the alert itself is...

[Boom Sound 416]

155. Alert this

[LittleGirl]

52. couldn't stand her eom

[conservaphobe]

53. Even as a fan of shock comedy, she wasn't my cup of tea...

But I agree.

Ideologues need to remove their stick when it comes to comedians and learn to appreciate it as an art.

Save the feigned outrage for politics, where it can be a useful tool.

If there's nothing to gain from tearing down someone for something they say, then why do it? Let them have their fun unless they're an obstacle that needs to be removed.

[Sopkoviak]

54. Wait, wut? You're able to diagnose a deteriorating mind all the way from Boston

And Joan realized she was scant weeks from death?

I thought it was a throat procedure gone wrong that killed her.

What magic powers of observation and prognostication you must have.

How are the Patriots going to do this year, I'm heading to Vegas.

[H2O Man]

57. silly

[Rex]

157. Enjoy your stay!

[caraher]

55. I'm with you for the most part

but she didn't die of some degenerative condition, but complications from what was supposed to be minor outpatient surgery. Indeed, everyone close to her seems to be describing her as being just as mentally sharp as ever right up to her last show the day before the ill-fated procedure.

For me, she was an entertainer who threw a few sharp elbows in a male-dominated world, and good for her for that - whether or not she said things I might find offensive. RIP

[Politicalboi]

58. She was an abusive drunk

I can't find the video for some reason, but it happened a few years back. She came back from lunch on the set and started slapping one of her crew members around. No big loss today IMO.

[lapfog_1]

59. she didn't die of old age or dementia

so I won't just "write off" things that she said recently.

She died of a medical "accident" while having a routine outpatient procedure performed at a clinic.

Could have happened to anyone. Her age may have played a part in how serious the result of the accident.

I didn't care for her comedy... but then I don't care for Don Rickles either.

[bigwillq]

60. K and R for a pioneer

Love her or hate her, that's what she was.

RIP, Joan.

[ScreamingMeemie]

61. Funny, how we're always on the same page. +1

[bigwillq]

62. Go, Pack, Go!

Football is Baaaacccckkkkk!!!

[ScreamingMeemie]

67. !

[elehhhhna]

63. Thanks will --

She was the first female comedian to work like a man. Phyllis, Totie, and Moms were funny but Joan was RAW. LIKE A GOOD MALE COMEDIAN. Standup only - no character/ensemble work for her...she was FIRed FROM THE sECOND city (MY ALMA MATER, BTW) oops, caps, sorry, because she was a stagehog (couldn't help it) who pulled all the focus and had the fastest verbal skills possible. They said "you need the stage to yourself - go do standup". She did.

Comedy take risks. Some lines fail. 81 year old comedians who are still improvising fresh lines in real time deserve some respect. Her politics are not mine, but she was brutal when talking of all things. Brutal. That was her style.

She was funniest when self-deprecating. She had a big heart, and a big mouth.

[cab67]

66. The only reason I had respect for Joan Rivers….

…is because she was able to go after herself as well as others. I never met or saw her, so I don't know how much of a diva she was, but she at least seemed as able to take it as to dish it out. That counts for something.

That said, what really turned me off from her routine was her delivery. She had the timing, and her observations were usually (though not always) spot-on, but the tone of her voice bothered me in a way I can't quite explain. It wasn't the accent - I grew up in the Northeast, and it was all around me - so maybe it was some combination of pitch and cadence? I don't know.

Nevertheless - she made a contribution to comedy, and she had family and friends who genuinely cared for her. I mourn her passing.

[CrawlingChaos]

68. What the actual fuck

We're talking about a long-time Republican of the pure greed variety, as stated explicitly in in interviews.

Her stock-in-trade was denigrating the appearance of women, like we needed more of that. Thanks for the trailblazing Joan.

The pure hate she directed at Palestinians, TWICE, to two different interviewers, was not part of any comedy routine (not that in would have been OK even if it were, IMO). It is actually sickening to hear someone try to trivialize it.

Her mind was not going - she was perfectly sharp and doing her usual comedy stuff right up till her ill-fated surgery.

I don't know about the others you mentioned but Jim Norton is a disgusting asshole and the things he says are NOT okay. And if he drops dead tomorrow, he will still have been an asshole. See also: Bill Maher. I am not judging Joan Rivers any differently.

[dbackjon]

84. Right Wing?

Hmmm

From 2012, before Obama "evolved" on gay equality:

Joan added that she thinks everyone should be able to enjoy the fruits of parenthood, whether they are gay or straight, married or single. We spoke before President Barack Obama’s announcement about his stance on gay marriage, and Rivers didn’t mince words.

"It is outrageous. The politicians are all such ass-kissers. No one is saying the truth. They are saying what they think people want to hear,” Joan said. “And while we’re talking about this, and Mother’s Day, I do want to say that if you don’t have a uterus, I don’t care what you think about abortion.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/joan-rivers-melissa-rivers-motherhood-gay-marriage_n_1507258.html

[CrawlingChaos]

87. As I specified, the "pure greed" variety

She told an interviewer she'd always been a Republican because she'll vote for anyone who will lower her taxes. So as long as Joan's got hers, fuck all the rest of you all. And apparently that includes LGBT people too if she has, indeed, been voting Republican. Easy enough to pay lip service to LGBT issues, but a buck is a buck, right?

Furthermore, hawkish support for Israel's crimes is certainly a right-wing position.

[dbackjon]

97. Link?

And she is Jewish


And she did vote for Obama

[CrawlingChaos]

98. Here you go

http://www.timeout.com/chicago/comedy/joan-rivers-interview

TOC: You voted for Obama, but you’ve been a lifelong Republican, right?
Joan Rivers: I am for anyone that will give me lower taxes, stop all this stupid spending. Whoever promises me that gets this chicken’s vote.

What the hell does it matter that she's Jewish?

[dbackjon]

99. They tend to be pro-Israeli

She was liberal on gay rights, abortion, and other issues.
Voted for Obama

But if you want to pigeon-hole her as an extremist right-winger, be my guest. Your issue, not mine.

[LostInAnomie]

70. Jesus fucking Christ! Does everything have to be reduced...

... to an idiotic man vs woman dichotomy?

It's not smart. It's not insightful. It's not "looking critically" at an issue. It's broken record bullshit.

Joan River DID say terrible things. Joan Rivers WAS grating. Joan Rivers DID cross the line many times from funny to hateful. She wasn't everyone's cup of tea and a lot of people actively disliked her. This wasn't because because of misogyny. It's because people have different opinions.

[amuse bouche]

76. and misogyny

Deny all you want. Everyone enjoys blinders, now and again

[LostInAnomie]

81. Brilliant job proving my point.

[amuse bouche]

112. If it's so brilliant, why are you banging your head?

I just hope the clue comes before the concussion

[LostInAnomie]

119. *sigh* Because you proved my point.

The point being, that there are people so invested in perceiving everything as misogyny that they will go out of their way to invent it if it isn't there.

If people are going to make accusations of "misogyny" over every critique of a woman, they should at least offer some kind of evidence other than feelings and connotations.

[Chemisse]

107. I never liked her, for the same reasons.

And I am female.

I don't care for that type of comedy, her voice or delivery or something irritated me a lot, and I don't like mean-spirited people. I feel the way about some male entertainers as well.

Making everything a gender war - only widens gender divisions.

[amuse bouche]

114. "And I am female"

Con women give the same excuse, while supporting anti-equality policies.

Don't like her? Fine, but don't use your gender as some sort of super qualifier


"Making everything a gender war - only widens gender divisions"--

"everything"? Exaggeration and bull shit all rolled into one

[Logical]

125. Lol, now you are really looking silly! nt

[amuse bouche]

138. Only silly to churlish ignoramuses

[Logical]

140. Ahhhh, some one is grumpy! Nap time! nt

[amuse bouche]

141. Good for you

Don't overuse your pacifier

[Logical]

148. Temper, temper! nt

[pipi_k]

133. When an issue

is originally put forth as something involving perceived "sexism", then it's perfectly acceptable for someone to point out his or her gender when giving an opinion on the subject.

If it had been presented as merely a human one, then there's no need to use one's gender as a "super qualifier".

[Chemisse]

159. Since you seemed inclined to blame attitudes toward Rivers on gender bias,

stating my gender seemed necessary.

My imprecision with the word 'everything' certainly provoked some nastiness. I must have hit a sore spot.

[kelliekat44]

118. Her last comments about Palestinians was about as nasty as you can get. Not comedy..rank hatefulnes

[BlueJazz]

72. Joan gets a complete pass from me. She can do no wrong

[AverageJoe90]

74. Will, it's not really about *who* said it, but what was said.

People did take legitimate offense to her remarks about Mrs. Obama and concerning the Israel/Palestine situation. That's what got folks upset, and no doubt it'd be the same coming from any guy.

[pipi_k]

75. Never cared for her

But then, I never liked Sam Kinison much either.

Nor Don Rickles.

I'm just not into insult "comedy"


Phyllis Diller...Lucille Ball (on "I Love Lucy&quot .

Now those were (IMO) a couple of very funny ladies

[frogmarch]

79. I first saw her on the Jack Paar show (the first Tonight show)

in 1965 or so. I liked her a lot, and she and Phyllis Diller were my favorite comedians (along with Jonathan Winters) and continued to be until Joan’s comedy turned mean. I couldn’t watch her much after that.

She did break some show biz barriers for women, and I appreciate that, and I’m sorry for Melissa and her other loved ones. RIP, Joan.

[sufrommich]

83. I think there was a big change in her demeanor and

she seemed to turn mean after her husband committed suicide.

[sufrommich]

80. She's no Amy Poehler.

She was one of the few living Borcsht Belt comedians still working and she did break some ground for other female comedians like Rosanne Barr.

[Inkfreak]

86. It is of no surprise that upon a celebrities death, posters will pick apart that persons life.

And spending more time on the negative than anything positive. Joan Rivers was funny, a trailblazer, and at times offensive. Gawd forbid....nothing but perfect people judging her, I'm sure.

[savannah43]

88. Some might want to read this article:

http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/postscript-joan-rivers?src=mp

[nolabear]

96. BRILLIANT. That's what makes comedy sacred.

[spanone]

90. she was brilliant.

[AtomicKitten]

91. I admired her. She was fiercely independent.

I would always seek out Fashion Police the day after a big awards show Iike the Oscars, etc. It was a ritual, a guilty pleasure. I'll miss her.

[The Midway Rebel]

92. Truly one of the our best comediennes.

Like a bright star, she was hard to ignore.

[applegrove]

93. She lost me this summer. When she said what she said about Gaza.

[Capt. Obvious]

94. While we're at it

I hope everyone leaves Dennis Miller and Brad Stine alone.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

102. OK, you asked for it:

[Capt. Obvious]

127. Ugh

That was awful

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

128. But he makes a wacky voice so you know he's being funny.......

.

[Cad Bane]

103. So you have no problem with people making racially offensive hateful statements?

Just get over it right?

She called Michelle Obama "blackie" and a "Tranny".

But you think Michelle's husband is a piece of shit so I guess it's all good.

[still_one]

105. Actually that isn't what the OP said.

[Cad Bane]

106. He tried to shield her by saying she was no worse than some other guys.

Next he'll be defending Palin,Michelle Malkin and Anne Coulter because they just do what the guys do, so what's the big deal?

Seems like this OP is just using Rivers as a prop because he is known for saying offensive things as well. They have similar targets for their nastiness.

A lot of people don't like Rivers for some of the hateful things she said about the Obamas over the years. Of course William Pitt would defend her.

[still_one]

108. I don't think he was trying to shield her, but point out in his view there is a double standard,

though I do not believe that the majority of DU members have that double standard in that context.

However, the OP may be right about the double standard. You might recall the outrageous remarks the OP made about the President regarding the ACA. You might also recall that a large number of DU members had no problem with those remarks. Maybe there is a double standard after all.

[still_one]

104. It was interesting when Bill Maher came to Clint Eastwood's defense for his tea party like skit

about the President. Many here actually had no problem to separate Eastwood's politics from his work.

Yes, people say stupid and terrible things sometimes, because that is the human catastrophe that we are part of.

[phylny]

113. I don't care for any of them, including Rivers, except for maybe Richard Pryor. n/t

[Nye Bevan]

115. Thanks for editing out your comments on her "insane gibberish" about Michelle Obama (nt)

[joshcryer]

121. "Obama is a POS used car salesman." - William Pitt

No surprise you'd support a crude comedian calling Michelle "Blackie O."

I don't give a shit, but the way you frame it is so dismissive of Joan's more hurtful comments. Basically, it's as if, who cares, she said shitty stuff and trying to turn it against men.

It doesn't matter what gender or sex says something, it doesn't absolve them.

Louie C. K.'s early rape jokes are completely inexcusable and he should be ashamed and apologize for them. His later ones were much more nuanced and funny and acceptable. That doesn't mean the early ones simply didn't matter anymore.

Meanwhile Joan Rivers called Michelle Obama "Blackie O." There's no context where that's acceptable. Except I guess in an audience of white people, which you'd perhaps applaud, I dunno.

[Ms. Toad]

123. Some of us don't find those characteristics attractive,

regardless of gender - and are equally critical of the men you've listed for the same reason.

[Orsino]

126. So she sold out in her last decades.

So she descended into mere name-calling and the cheapest, meanest forms of "humor."

Back in the day, she was some sort of genius.

[Eleanors38]

129. "My vagina is like Newark. Men know it's there...

...but they don't want to visit."



First saw her in the b&w mid-60s. RIP.

[karynnj]

131. While I do think that this is not the time to criticize her, I can honestly say

that my thinking the things she said had absolutely nothing to do with her being a woman. The comments were offensive no matter the gender of the person saying them. Some of the men mentioned, I have never listened to -- others I often thought were in bad taste. I have never been impressed with the shock jock elevation of the worst of adolescent humor.

Frankly, I would have been as offended had the most white, male comedian in the universe called Laura Bush a tranny. It has nothing to do with gender or even political allegiance. There is absolutely nothing funny there and it is rude and offensive.

[Rye Bread Pizza]

132. A comic's job

She was a commedian... Taking us out of our comfort zones and making us laugh at ourselves is what they are paid to do. Taking us out and making us think is what the best of them do. And to anyone that is simply offended... welcome to the human race.

[Prophet 451]

135. I didn't find her funny

That's not a judgement on her talent, comedy is entirely down to personal taste. I do think a few of her comments in the last few years went too far (such as calling Michelle Obama a "tranny&quot .

[WinkyDink]

143. Never? Not in 50 years?

[Prophet 451]

149. Well, I haven't seen her entire body of work

True, she managed to raise a wry smile occasionally but even the worst comedian (and I'm not saying she was) manages that.

[WinkyDink]

142. Court jesters aren't supposed to be "nice," especially to very powerful people.

[LadyHawkAZ]

144. Shark. Jumped. *koff*

[MisterP]

145. I'm more concerned with the jingoistic, racist, and genocidal things than anything "grating"

[RobinA]

147. She Was Judged Differently

Imagine men saying the things she did about other women.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

151. Her comments about the Palestinians wasn't an "act".

It was out of hatred and spite.

[Faux pas]

152. Except for Richard Pryor

I never liked any of those other 'comics'. Joan was a hard worker, I give he props for that. Beyond that, to me, she wasn't funny, just crude and mean. Not endearing qualities IMHO.

[TBF]

154. Her comments about the Palestinians were hard to hear -

but she was a very talented lady and came up in a time where women were not accepted as comedians (I cannot imagine her and Barbra Streisand being unknowns but they were!). So I have mixed feelings but a lot of admiration for her as well. Huge loss for her daughter and grandson - she obviously was very loved by her family.

[Feron]

158. Eh I don't see any misogyny...

Joan Rivers was a pioneer and funny in the past.

However in recent years her humor was about as unfunny and try hard as your typical morning zoo shock jock. Oh I'm caustic and crass--how edgy I am! Which is a shame because she was a funny and likable person that seemed to get progressively hateful as time wore on.

I like biting comedy and I'm a Carlin fan. Carlin became bitter as he aged, but his comedy was still smart and provocative.

Joan, I don't know what happened to her, but ugh.