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Thu Sep 4, 2014, 10:54 AM

 

ISIS Is Beheading Journalists to Lure America Into Another Ground War.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/isis-is-beheading-journal_b_5757542.html

The nature of war in Iraq today, and for most of the past decade, is the reality of irregular warfare where winning the battle entails occupying territory and dealing with ambushes, roadside bombs, snipers, and every other tactic aimed at weakening a great power. Our soldiers don't deserve another ground war in Iraq and we should never again wage a counterinsurgency war anywhere in the world. ISIS wants this suicidal showdown, they want to lure the U.S. into a ground war, and they need the legitimacy acquired by Al-Qaeda and Bin-Laden when both lured our country into two colossal mistakes in the Middle East.

Our society, sadly, is seemingly quick to forget the lessons learned only several years ago. Why? Because never-ending media images of militants with black beards and uniforms doing donuts in tanks and vehicles, relishing their victories and slaughtering groups of unarmed men, have garnered exactly the type of attention desired by ISIS. In order to defeat ISIS, we'll have to wage war on our terms; not the terms of a terrorist group who's raison detre, like Al-Qaeda, Hamas, and every other terror organization, is to weaken a far greaterer power though asymmetric warfare. There are a number of reasons why ISIS desperately wants the U.S. to send tens of thousands of ground troops back to Iraq and this article highlights why we shouldn't fall into their trap.

1. The U.S. should leave the ground war to Shia, Kurdish and other Iraqi forces. According to a Salon.com article in 2006, the Battle of Fallujah is an example of why Iraqis, not U.S troops, must vanquish ISIS:

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Arrow 34 replies Author Time Post
Reply ISIS Is Beheading Journalists to Lure America Into Another Ground War. (Original post)
grahamhgreen Sep 2014 OP
misterhighwasted Sep 2014 #1
grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #3
misterhighwasted Sep 2014 #13
flamingdem Sep 2014 #2
TwilightGardener Sep 2014 #4
misterhighwasted Sep 2014 #14
grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #20
JoePhilly Sep 2014 #23
grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #24
JoePhilly Sep 2014 #25
grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #27
JoePhilly Sep 2014 #33
1StrongBlackMan Sep 2014 #26
jillan Sep 2014 #5
KurtNYC Sep 2014 #6
jamzrockz Sep 2014 #9
grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #28
Octafish Sep 2014 #7
951-Riverside Sep 2014 #8
CJCRANE Sep 2014 #12
99th_Monkey Sep 2014 #18
kairos12 Sep 2014 #22
grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #31
joeybee12 Sep 2014 #10
progressoid Sep 2014 #11
PragmaticLiberal Sep 2014 #15
grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #19
etherealtruth Sep 2014 #34
valerief Sep 2014 #16
kairos12 Sep 2014 #21
99th_Monkey Sep 2014 #17
Rex Sep 2014 #29
sub.theory Sep 2014 #30
AgingAmerican Sep 2014 #32

Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 10:58 AM

1. Have to agree. Obama does not want this but someone else does.

And now with the threat from ISIS to Puten's Chechen ally..
EEE Gad!

http://rt.com/news/184836-isis-putin-kadyrov-syria/

“Whoever dares to threaten Russia and say out loud the name of our President Vladimir Putin will be destroyed right where he is… These people will end their days under the hot sun of Syria and Iraq and moments after death they will be greeted by the flames of eternal hell.”

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Response to misterhighwasted (Reply #1)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 11:12 AM

3. I looked into Putin’s eyes and I saw his soul” - GWB

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #3)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 01:10 PM

13. And what did Bush see in Cheney's eyes??

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 11:12 AM

2. The saber rattlers are flailing around when asked about US ground troops

How can they foam at the mouth and also say "no ground troops" and "Obama is weak". They avoid answering directly. None of the foamers have anything to offer on a strategic level.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 11:37 AM

4. Obama is actually doing what needs to be done, the only real bitching

is from those who think we already should have bombed Syrian targets. Nobody else has a better plan apart from what's being done now with airstrikes, special forces, and cooperation with Iraqi/Kurd ground troops.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 01:12 PM

14. ^ The Truth of it all.

At this point in time I prefer a calculated decision.
Kudos Obama

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Response to misterhighwasted (Reply #14)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:35 PM

20. What's the mission?

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #20)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:40 PM

23. Use the military for narrow and focused military purposes, not

try and force a specific political outcome.

Its been Obama's approach all along.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #23)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 06:13 PM

24. Which is?

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #24)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 06:19 PM

25. Depends on the situation.

Which is the point.

I know this is tough for some.

When Syria was using chem weapons, we were ready to use targeted strikes to stop them. That's a narrow focus of military power.

When ISIS was about to slaughter thousands, we hit them with limited air strikes, to prevent it. Narrow focus.

I'd contrast that with what the right always wants ... an invasion. Invade, occupy, install new government.

Now, some on the right and left don't get this. The right is pissed because targeted strikes isn't an invasion. And some on the left think targeted strikes are a multi-year invasion and occupation.

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Response to JoePhilly (Reply #25)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 10:10 PM

27. That's not a mission. It's a blank check for perpetual war. Worse, the strikes create more enemies

 

than they destroy.

If Obama cared about human rights, he would prosecute torture and other war crimes here at home.

Don't you think?

When do we stop.... Never?

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #27)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:33 AM

33. Aren't you one of the folks who were sure Obama was going to invade Syria

over a year ago, starting another Iraq style "perpetual war"?

Which then never happened.

Or am I thinking about some one else?

There is a very real difference between sending our troops into other countries to take down their leaders, occupy the country, and install our own leaders .... versus, selective and targeted use of our military with specific military objectives, like preventing a specific group from wiping out civilians.

I used to think that only the far right wing was unable to recognize the complexity that exists in the world, seeing only black and white instead. I have learned (mostly on DU) that there is a segment on the left who also struggles with the complexity in the world, seeing everything in only white and black.

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Response to TwilightGardener (Reply #4)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 06:37 PM

26. I agree; but ...

 

the only real bitching is from those who think we already should have bombed Syrian targets.


That's not quite true ... there is plenty of b!tching coming from those that think the "We should've gotten involved back in 2003 or surged in 2007" argument has any relevance, today.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #2)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 11:41 AM

5. Let's just hope that the media does it's job this time!!

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 11:51 AM

6. For recent lessons that would apply to ISIS I would look back to Libya and last year in Syria

The narrative we got on both Libya and Syria was that rebels were overthrowing an oppressive government. In August of last year, the MSM suddenly focused on Assad and said that he had used Sarin gas. Both Syria and Libya are on the infamous list of "7 nations in 5 years." In the context of the MSM's sarin gas coverage last year and ISIS this year, it certainly looks as if a case is being made for US intervention (or proxy intervention) in Syria.




I don't think this statement is true:

Our society, sadly, is seemingly quick to forget the lessons learned only several years ago.


but our country's course of action is set by the PTB so it doesn't matter at all what I think or what millions of Americans think. Syria is on their list and they make these decisions. The 7 wars they are working through are sold through a series of stories about individual Americans in peril -- Jessica Lynch, Daniel Pearl, Nick Berg, and now Foley and Sotloff. I think the stories resonate because they take war down to a personal level and we see people we identify with and we have an emotional response. That's all, we are spectators, not decision influencers.

I don't see evidence that 'society is quick to forget' but rather that the 7 nation list is being worked through and Syria is the current priority.

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Response to KurtNYC (Reply #6)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 12:20 PM

9. I couldn't agree more

 

This is just the latest attempt to sell us another regime change in the middle east. Its funny how nobody really got outraged when the same ISIS were massacring captured Syria soldiers, killing and crucifying innocent Syria and destroying whole cities. We kept quiet because they were working on our agenda of weakening/eliminating Assad. Now that the plan is not working out as well they planned or taking too long, TPTB is trying to engage Syria directly.

If this was truly about eliminating the terrorists, I don't see whats so wrong with working with the Syria govt. We worked with all sorts of people when it came to stopping the Nazi's and I don't see why we cannot work with the Syrian people and their govt in eliminating ISIS.

I will not support any unilateral war/kinetic action into Syria. If they really believe ISIS is so evil, then they should have no problem working with the Syrian people and govt in fighting them.

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Response to jamzrockz (Reply #9)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 11:28 PM

28. Well said.

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 11:53 AM

7. Seems to be the case.

What's surprising is how many don't know -- or don't remember -- or pretend they don't remember -- what happened in 2002.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 12:09 PM

8. "ISIS" is doing exactly what the military industrial complex is paying them to do...

 

The plan has always been to supply them with training, weapons and money then set them loose to destabilize countries and slaughter millions for a few years then come in with tanks, drones and bombs to finish off whats left while making an insane profit from the weapons and conquered land.

The "founding fathers" would be proud of the mass genocide the military industrial complex was able to accomplish against the indigenous population in a matter of a few years using these mercenaries for hire and contractors.

There is no luring here.





and...



Video: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/syria-arming-the-rebels/

NARRATOR: But in recent weeks, they have been receiving more sophisticated weapons. It appears the Obama administration is now allowing select groups of rebels like them to receive U.S.-made anti-tank missiles, known as TOWs. Many of the fighters have filmed themselves firing the missiles. In addition to receiving weapons, the commander says he and his men were taken on a long journey to a secret training camp.

REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] They asked for a group of 80 or 90 fighters from our command, and we headed towards the Turkish border.

NARRATOR: Based on their accounts, we retraced their journey across the border into Turkey. After a 14-hour drive, they say they arrived in the Turkish capital of Ankara and were brought to a hotel. They were kept inside and questioned by Americans, who would only say they were from the military. But the rebels believed they were from the CIA.

REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We met them for six to seven hours a day. It was medical examinations, questions for each person individually, like, “When did you join the uprising?” And “What was your profession or military rank?”

They had tracked our work and asked us to verify information about attacks we carried out, such as who was present and how many men were martyred. Your responses have to match the entire group’s.

NARRATOR: A week later, the rebels say they were surprised by what happened next.

REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We only found out where we were going to be trained on the last day in Ankara, when the Americans said goodbye and that, “Tomorrow, we’ll see you in Qatar.”

NARRATOR: They were flown 1,500 miles away to Doha, the capital of Qatar, which is a key U.S. ally in the Persian Gulf.

REBEL COMMANDER: [through interpreter] We drove for about two, two-and-a-half hours to reach the training ground. It was close to the Saudi border. We didn’t know where we were because it was desert all around.

NARRATOR: Over the course of three weeks, they say they were trained by Americans at a base in the desert guarded by Qatari soldiers. Like many of the rebels who were sent to Qatar, 21-year-old Hussein had never had any previous military training.

HUSSEIN: [through interpreter] They trained us to ambush regime or enemy vehicles and cut off the road. They also trained us on how to attack a vehicle, raid it, retrieve information or weapons and munitions, and how to finish off soldiers still alive after an ambush.

NARRATOR: The rebels were outfitted with brand-new uniforms and boots.

MUHAMMAD ALI: [subtitles] Those trousers are from them, right?

HUSSEIN: [subtitles] Yeah. We got these boots in training.

MUHAMMAD ALI: The Americans were warning the fighters not to tell this story at all. And even at one point, they told them, “If in any case this story will be published, we will stop funding you or arming you.”

NARRATOR: The CIA and the State Department declined to comment on the fighters’ accounts of arming and training, though the Obama administration has said it plans to step up support to the rebels, and there have been other reports the CIA is running covert training out of Jordan.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 01:09 PM

12. It's all so painfully obvious

what's going on.

The rest of the world has figured it out but our media and our politicians have to go along with the prearranged script.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #8)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 01:52 PM

18. EEE-YUP! Now the Masters of War have their new ME Boogie Man. Sickeningly so. ~nt

 

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #8)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:39 PM

22. Put those McCain pictures along side those of Rumsfeld visiting Saddam in the 1980s

and you have a perfect picture of Rethug judgment.

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Response to 951-Riverside (Reply #8)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 02:40 AM

31. ALL - if you haven't seen that video... Watch it now

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 12:24 PM

10. Actually, I think they're doing it mainly because they're phucking assholes...nt

 

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #10)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 12:45 PM

11. Yup. n/t

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #10)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 01:41 PM

15. Basically.

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #10)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:30 AM

19. +1

 

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Response to joeybee12 (Reply #10)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 09:39 AM

34. Vermin ....

I would only add that these horrific/ barbaric acts serve to "scare" states that do pay extortion into acting

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 01:48 PM

16. Right, and who benefits from our wars? The filthy rich do! Almost like they created ISIS

to do their lobbying. Or, in this case, bobbing and lobbing.

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Response to valerief (Reply #16)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 03:37 PM

21. You are right. No Shrub in Iraq, no ISIS.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Thu Sep 4, 2014, 01:49 PM

17. Yes, ISIS has its marching orders, from the Masters of War

 

OH BOY!! Now we got our brand spanking new "Middle East Boogie Man" to go to war with.

Thanks to Prince Bandar Bush and the Saudis (our "good alloy"?) who are funding them.

This clusterfuck is NO accident.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 11:32 PM

29. Yes.

 

I agree.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Fri Sep 5, 2014, 11:47 PM

30. I'm not sure about that

I don't think it's that they are interested in a ground war necessarily. They are fanatical monsters to be sure, but they have shown very shrewd strategy so far (and that makes them even more dangerous). I think the beheadings are their "don't tread on me" message. They are trying to scare us into leaving them alone until they are in a more entrenched position to directly confront us. They are a terrorist organization and fear is their favorite weapon. I also think that their PR campaign is directed just as much toward recruiting other jihadi sociopaths as toward us. Maybe even more so.

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Response to grahamhgreen (Original post)

Sat Sep 6, 2014, 04:35 AM

32. That's all it would take to put a cherry on top

 

of what Bin Laden did and finish permanently bankrupting the country.

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