I was ambivalent about the death penalty until the Missouri story today

[Recursion]

Apparently Missouri has been straight up lying about the methods they use for execution. Even if I maintain a theoretical ambivalence, as a practical moral matter, after this I have to say "no executions for the next century or so until we sort this out".

Sorry that took so long.

[merrily]

1. We're not God. None of us

Regardless of what anyone thinks about whether God exists or not, my subject line is accurate.

[randome]

16. Or we're all God. It works that way, too. But your point is clear.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Treat your body like a machine. Your mind like a castle.[/center][/font][hr]

[merrily]

17. yes, thanks. If we're all God, then none of us should be killing anyone in cold blood.

[Kalidurga]

2. I prefer no death penalty

I think people should have to live with what they did. Some people have no feelings about what they did. But, for them being locked up is even more difficult. People who have remorse have a measure of comfort eventually among the rest of the prison population that also has some humanity, but it's still very difficult to be in prison. Death releases people from those difficulties.

[get the red out]

7. That makes a lot of sense

I would certainly rather be dead than in prison.

I just get so angry when I hear about horrific murders that my brain almost explodes. I wish I could be against the death penalty all the time, I'm just not capable of the detachment necessary.

[Kalidurga]

31. I have thought about that as well

If I was a young person under 30 and knew I could spend 60 or more years in jail I would rather be dead, maybe not in the next week, but after years of tedium in prison yeah I can see that being insufferable. So, I kind of smile at life in prison not a happy smile, but knowing they aren't going to like it much. But, I think life should be a true life sentence not well we sort of sentenced you to life but that really just means 20 years or so and with time off for good behavior sure we can have you outta here in 15.

[Romulox]

3. Even without the DP, our prison industry is the for-profit enforcement wing of a brutally racist and

authoritarian government.

Removing the DP (while admirable) isn't the "fix" for the above.

[merrily]

5. Yes, but it cuts down on torture and also on deaths of innocents.

Besides, as I said, whether anyone has the right to take a life cold bloodedly is a big issue for me.

[Romulox]

8. I don't disagree. I just object to the implicit idea that our prison industry

is the "humane" alternative.

[merrily]

12. When the private sector is considered more humane than government, we are

really in deep do.

[rock]

9. So you want a brutally, racist, and authoritarian government

to have the power of death over it's citizens? Just want to make sure I understand you.

[Romulox]

10. There is no way you got that from what I posted. It's just a ridiculous distortion for the sake of

argument.

[rock]

15. Well, I am often wrong so I'll try again.

Are you for or against the Death Penalty?

[tkmorris]

29. "Removing the DP (while admirable)"

Reread that bit.

[rock]

30. Then you're for the DP

A simple "for" would have done the trick and not have been so confusing. You do realize that the DP is power for the government and it means killing the citizens. So you are for the government taking the lives of its citizens. A government that you described as a brutally racist, and authoritarian government (which I completely agree with). I'm not trying to be harsh. Just tell me where I'm going wrong.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

14. I'm pretty sure you don't understand him. nt

[morningfog]

4. And if that weren't enough consider the NC brothers

Last edited Thu Sep 4, 2014, 11:48 AM - Edit history (1)

Who wre just exonerated, but were on death row.

[merrily]

6. Brothers?

[Recursion]

13. Yes, they were two brothers

One on death row, one with a life sentence.

[sharp_stick]

18. DNA evidence cleared two

brothers who were convicted of raping and murdering a little girl about 30 years ago. One was on death row and fat Tony Scalia used him as an example of why his catholic ass really liked killing people in a case several years ago.

The other was serving a life sentence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/04/us/north-carolina-death-row-dna.html

[merrily]

19. Thank you. Scalia apologized, of course.

[sharp_stick]

20. I'm waiting for him

to renounce his support for the death penalty at any moment now.

[morningfog]

24. Yes.

[merrily]

25. Thanks

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

11. A lot of us evolved on that issue over time.

It's easy to just 'accept the status quo' and assume because most people supported it in the past (or even still do) that it's a 'reasonable' position to hold. But the more you read about how it's applied in reality, the more it become apparent that humans are simply too fallible, and the justice system too slanted, to only apply it to those even to whom they feel it actually should apply, or even to apply it in the 'ways' it is supposedly applied.

Unless the reincarnationists are right, you only get one shot at life, and no matter how godawful you are at it, you should be allowed to try and live as long as possible. Who knows, maybe some of these guys (who actually were guilty, and not just railroaded) will evolve while in jail, and finally understand why they were wrong to do what they did to others.

Revenge killings help no one, and that's what our death penalty really is. The thousands of year old concept of 'an eye for an eye', just prettied up to try to avoid looking like what they are.

[Live and Learn]

21. +1 nt

[Heidi]

22. Exactly.

Thank you.

[merrily]

26. Evolving is so much better than not being willing or able to change your mind.

[Heidi]

23. Kick!

[oldandhappy]

27. I have been against the death penalty since Dead Man Walking.

It takes time for all this stuff to come to our awareness. I live in CA so have been watching AZ. argh. The clean up in the prison industry is another conversation. For now, I am glad we have one more person saying, 'no executions for the next century or so until we sort this out'. Thank you.

[Raffi Ella]

28. I've always been against the Death Penalty.

I've never understood how killing someone is a justifiable punishment when the act of killing someone is in and of itself against the law. Someone has to pull the lever or insert the needle. So, not only do they not have the right to do that under the law, but they will have to live with the fact that they did do it. They killed someone.

How can someone live with themselves if they kill someone like that, and who has the right to force that action from another?

Don't get me wrong here, Good Riddance to Bin Laden's sorry ass. I'm not a pacifist, I'm against the methodical slow process of killing another human being under the sanction of and by the order of a court of law; that process and the end result of death is as cruel and horrific as what ISIS did to those poor men. The case in Missouri demonstrates further why it is just so wrong.

In a civilized society the death penalty makes no sense. It needs to be abolished.