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Wed Apr 11, 2012, 07:33 AM

 

Iceland Gets it right~ Why No media coverage?

Last edited Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:10 AM - Edit history (1)

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Something I found interesting:From Facebook............
>>

No news from Iceland… why?
How come we hear everything that happens in Egypt but no news about what’s happening in Iceland:

In Iceland, the people has made the government resign, the primary banks have been nationalized, it was decided to not pay the debt that these created with Great Britain and Holland due to their bad financial politics and a public assembly has been created to rewrite the constitution.
And all of this in a peaceful way.
A whole revolution against the powers that have created the current crisis. This is why there hasn’t been any publicity during the last two years: What would happen if the rest of the EU citizens took this as an example? What would happen if the US citizens took this as an example.
This is a summary of the facts:
2008. The main bank of the country is nationalized.
The Krona, the currency of Iceland devaluates and the stock market stops.
The country is in bankruptcy
2008. The citizens protest in front of parliament and manage to get new elections that make the resignation of the prime minister and his whole government.
The country is in bad economic situation.
A law proposes paying back the debt to Great Britain and Holland through the payment of 3,500 million euros, which will be paid by the people of Iceland monthly during the next 15 years, with a 5.5% interest.
2010. The people go out in the streets and demand a referendum. In January 2010 the president denies the approval and announces a popular meeting.
In March the referendum and the denial of payment is voted in by 93%. Meanwhile the government has initiated an investigation to bring to justice those responsible for the crisis, and many high level executives and bankers are arrested. The Interpol dictates an order that make all the implicated parties leave the country.
In this crisis an assembly is elected to rewrite a new Constitution which can include the lessons learned from this, and which will substitute the current one (a copy of the Danish Constitution).
25 citizens are chosen, with no political affiliation, out of the 522 candidates. For candidacy all that was needed was to be an adult and have the support of 30 people. The constitutional assembly starts in February of 2011 to present the ‘carta magna’ from the recommendations given by the different assemblies happening throughout the country. It must be approved by the current Parliament and by the one constituted through the next legislative elections.
So in summary of the Icelandic revolution:
-resignation of the whole government
-nationalization of the bank.
-referendum so that the people can decide over the economic decisions.
-incarcerating the responsible parties
-rewriting of the constitution by its people

Have we been informed of this through the media?
Has any political program in radio or TV commented on this?
No!
The Icelandic people have been able to show that there is a way to beat the system and has given a democracy lesson to the world

55 replies, 11921 views

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Arrow 55 replies Author Time Post
Reply Iceland Gets it right~ Why No media coverage? (Original post)
Pharaoh Apr 2012 OP
hobbit709 Apr 2012 #1
lovuian Apr 2012 #2
obxhead Apr 2012 #3
leeroysphitz Apr 2012 #10
TransitJohn Apr 2012 #4
Zalatix Apr 2012 #5
edhopper Apr 2012 #6
HughBeaumont Apr 2012 #7
freshwest Apr 2012 #37
Javaman Apr 2012 #8
Nay Apr 2012 #9
Pharaoh Apr 2012 #12
woo me with science Apr 2012 #40
hifiguy Apr 2012 #11
mmonk Apr 2012 #13
mathematic Apr 2012 #14
BridgeTheGap Apr 2012 #18
ExPatLeftist Apr 2012 #23
mojowork_n Apr 2012 #33
Typical NYC Lib Apr 2012 #15
saras Apr 2012 #16
TreasonousBastard Apr 2012 #17
girl gone mad Apr 2012 #32
Nye Bevan Apr 2012 #19
Puzzledtraveller Apr 2012 #20
ExPatLeftist Apr 2012 #21
Puzzledtraveller Apr 2012 #24
ExPatLeftist Apr 2012 #27
librechik Apr 2012 #28
ExPatLeftist Apr 2012 #29
mojowork_n Apr 2012 #34
Egalitarian Thug Apr 2012 #31
freshwest Apr 2012 #38
Scuba Apr 2012 #44
librechik Apr 2012 #22
ExPatLeftist Apr 2012 #26
Gregorian Apr 2012 #25
HiPointDem Apr 2012 #30
bvar22 Apr 2012 #35
Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #48
SadPanda Apr 2012 #36
Lydia Leftcoast Apr 2012 #47
shcrane71 Apr 2012 #39
woo me with science Apr 2012 #41
Sarah Ibarruri Apr 2012 #42
ExPatLeftist Apr 2012 #43
Mosaic Apr 2012 #45
Lawlbringer Apr 2012 #46
Quantess Apr 2012 #49
Lawlbringer Apr 2012 #52
westerebus May 2012 #53
Lawlbringer May 2012 #54
westerebus May 2012 #55
sabrina 1 Apr 2012 #50
ExPatLeftist Apr 2012 #51

Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 07:37 AM

1. Real Democracy at work.

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Response to hobbit709 (Reply #1)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:27 AM

2. Yep

and they are doing just fine

where Greece is under the whip of debt which the people didn't create
their banks did it and their government did it

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:30 AM

3. It worked.

 

That's why we are not allowed to hear about it.

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Response to obxhead (Reply #3)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:14 AM

10. +1

 

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:30 AM

4. Love it. K & R eom

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:31 AM

5. Is there a way to sticky this???

 

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:36 AM

6. Because it doesn't

fit the media's austerity driven "fuck the poor people" agenda they have bought into.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:37 AM

7. American corpora-politics just isn't evolved like that.

They're out to make you believe violent revolution IS the only way corptocracy can be stopped. What they WILL publicize is how the corporate army (aka the Police) WILL violently quash anyone demonstrating against this great ubiquitous and unbridled capitalist cancer that's affected this nation's government. The success of such a system also depends entirely on a purchased and unobjective media. They don't WANT you to know how other people live because, well, then you would want those things and unless you're fabulously wealthy, you ain't-a gettin' them.

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Response to HughBeaumont (Reply #7)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 10:02 PM

37. Also we don't have the rapid change from a parliamentary system. They game between elections.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:41 AM

8. the very last thing the corporate controlled news will ever talk about is...

how people have all the power.

as long as we are lead to believe that we are powerless, the status quo prevails.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 08:45 AM

9. Your answer is in your title -- because they got it right. And because "right" means that the

citizens have the upper hand, not the 1%. Do you think the 1% here want us peons to find out what Iceland did to extricate itself from its rich-people problem?

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Response to Nay (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:20 AM

12. I know :o)

 

Just being facetious

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Response to Nay (Reply #9)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 10:10 PM

40. "to extricate itself from its rich-people problem"

I love the way you put that.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:19 AM

11. Two reasons:

 

First, Iceland is a very small country.

Second, the corporate media has no interest in reporting on places where democracy is operating to the detriment or corporations and banks.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:23 AM

13. Because Americans might figure it out.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:25 AM

14. You really want to know why? Or is this just ideological storytime?

The real reason is that Iceland is a sparsely populated island of fishermen in the north atlantic with practically no great impact on the world.

If you haven't heard of all this through the media then how did you hear about it? Do you speak icelandic? Are you one of the 300,000 people that live in iceland? How much time do you want the media to spend on this? How much time should the media spend on Stockton's financial troubles? The stockton area has twice as many people as iceland and a far greater impact on the lives of americans.

Iceland is basically one very small city and a bunch of even smaller villages. Sacking the government is like electing a new mayor. In no way does Iceland's experience explain how to generalize this sort of sweeping direct democracy to high population, high density groups of people.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 10:03 AM

18. Your arguments are valid and ultimately point to the fact that democracy

is best when practiced at the local level. Part of the conversation toward reform in this country should be about where the various powers of government are best exercised - Federal, State or Local. The Constitution did a fairly good job of drawing those lines and a civil war was fought over disagreement about where those lines should be. Presidents make promises about "letting the states decide," i.e. on medical marijuana, and once elected, promplty assert Federal authority via the DEA.
Apparently, upwards of 80% of the population in Iceland participated in demonstrations against the government/banks attempted austerity measures. If 80% of the population of the U.S. had that level of commitment, meaningful systemic change would happen very quickly here.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:49 AM

23. "Storytime" - interesting choice of words considering your post's basis in reality...

Please see below.

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Response to mathematic (Reply #14)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 02:14 PM

33. Stockton??? A greater impact???

Say no more. Don't say another word.

You're absolutely right. The number of citizens is always the universal yardstick
through which the most effective and accurate, cross-boundary, international
comparisons should be made...

On the other hand...

If Stockton had a constitution, if it was a sovereign country with it's own currency
and membership in the United Nations (no, wait, Stockton would withdraw from the
United Nations, and if it had it's own currency Ted Nugent would be the face on the
two-dollar bill), we would all have a prime, wonderful example of governmental
dysfunction at work. ("Republicans at work," the little sovereign city state's official
motto would be.)

But thankfully, we're never going to have to worry about that possibility, or the
potential harm that could come from the governmental entity that is Stockton
becoming involved in a pyramid/Ponzi scheme of credit default obligations fronted
and supported by a partnership of banksters, elected lap dogs, and bought-off
regulators.

There's no chance of that ever happening, or its having "an impact" on America.

So one more rhetorical hobby horse bites the dust. .....I may not be Icelandic, but there
are 3 Icelanders who belong to my church, so I have some sympathy for the place
and the people that live there. (Did you know that of all the modern Scandinavian
languages, Icelandic is the closest to Old Norse. What the Vikings spoke and wrote.
So Icelanders have little difficulty reading the original text of the medieval Viking sagas,
even school children.)

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:26 AM

15. But, but, but,

 

that would undermine our crowing about American Exceptionalism!!!

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:33 AM

16. Much as I admire them, they had it easy, being the first

 

One thing they didn't do, is they didn't finish cleaning up the bankers, they merely left the country, scot-free.

Okay, the second and third countries clean up and kick the bankers out, no problem.

At some point, though, there's so many bankers and so few and weak countries that they won't be able to keep on kicking them out without help. Although I suppose when a few dozen first-world countries are on board, it will be much easier to take the bankers on. Maybe they'll go down in history as the Banker Trials, or maybe they'll get named for a place, like Nuremberg.


Well, it doesn't HURT to dream...

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 09:55 AM

17. Too bad nobody reads the NY Times any more...

since they've covered the goings-on in Iceland.

But, please note that Iceland and Greece are two entirely different places with entirely different problems-- about the only things they have in common are mountains and volcanoes.

Iceland, with it's tiny, but prosperous, population of 320,000, ran into trouble because they managed to invest in failed banks. It's economy is maybe 40% fishing, but that, and some mineral exports, supplies its small population with a pretty good income, and the per capita GDP is down, but still mid 30K.

Greece, otoh, has 10 million or so (with the population declining for years as people leave) a per capita GDP in the mid 20s (with far more economic inequality) and not much besides shipping an olives making any money. And they couldn't "just say no" like Iceland did because they were part of the European Union and that would have had serious consequences.

Greece's problems came from its own lack of accountability and flat-out fraud. Its economy was trailing even before the worldwide depression with little attempt to build new industry, governments stayed in office by giving big gifts to the rich and little gifts (like early retirement) to everyone else, small businesses required years to start with enormous amounts of red tape and bribery, and nobody was properly taxed. On top of all this, the governments lied to keep borrowing-- a governmental Ponzi scheme. Blame the banks for being stupid enough to lend to them, but not for asking to be repaid.



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Response to TreasonousBastard (Reply #17)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 01:51 PM

32. Greece's actual problem is that traded away its currency sovereignty.

And for such a punishing rate of exchange, at that, in order to be a part of the doomed Euro project.

Before the financial crisis hit, Greece was doing okay, even with the tax avoidance problems and an uncompetitive fiscal environment. I've studied the data from that period. There's no evidence that Greece was on an unsustainable course compared with other Eurozone countries. Their public sector debt to gdp and tax collections rate were comfortably in line with the rest of the non-German Eurozone. Greece's social safety net was quite modest compared to the rest of Europe. There simply were no huge red flags in the economic data which could lead one to reasonably conclude Greece was on a perilous collision course.

The financial crisis is what really wiped out Greece's GDP. With non-sovereign debts and no way to control money flows, Greece was helpless to enact the types of policies which sovereign currency nations such as the USA were able to implement to prevent deeper recession. The automatic stabilizers that kick in to replace huge quantities of money disappearing from the economy due to debt deleveraging fell victim to the neoliberals' demand for austerity, a rigid ideological plan which could not be more wrong. Many economists warned of precisely this outcome for weaker Euro countries in the inevitable face of a financial crisis. This is precisely why fixed exchange rate regimes like the Euro are such a bad idea. Doubly so for the Euro itself, since the ECB does not act as a true Central Bank, but instead moves mostly to protect the interests of the stronger Eurozone countries at the expense of the weaker ones.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 10:04 AM

19. Iceland never joined the Euro.

If Greece had kept the Drachma, things there would be very different.

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Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #19)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 10:54 AM

20. Exactly and..

This has me wondering. What idealogical differences allow some progressives to be pro-globablization, verses those that are anti globalization? I think the pro globalists one rule fits all, look at nationalism as a bad thing because of historical examples. If Greece had remained nationalistic perhaps as you mentioned things would be better for them. I think it goes deeper, it's human nature, and part of our evolution, globalization will fail, we are species that breaks up and identifies in groups, societies, nations.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:37 AM

21. From an expat living in Iceland for 16 years (and an Icelandic citizen) this is mostly inaccurate.

And much of this has been widely reported globally.

The government resigned and then basically shuffled themselves around to form a new government. (Not too many people wanted that job after this fiasco so mostly the same people ran again and people everywhere are so dumb they voted in many of the same faces/feces).

Voting to refuse to pay back the UK, et al. was just kicking the can down the road - no one here is under false illusions that we will not have to pay this all back at some point.

Incarcerated who?? Sure there's an investigation, but no one is in prison. And it's people investigating their old pals, etc. Not many expect a lot of jail time out of this. And recently some have gone after the old PM but many here are saying "putting him in jail will not change anything" and so are willing to just let bygones be bygones so as not to "create a stir". The ex PM and then central bank manager (Davíð Oddson) is IMO most to blame for all of this along with a handful of business sharks that he enabled, and they are laughing their asses off, free as birds. Note that not only is he laughing his ass off, Davíð Oddson is now the editor of the main newspaper in the country. So PM -> Director of Central Bank -> Head propagandist. I would love to see his head on a pike, but many "right wingers" here (right wing here = left of Dems in US) worships him as a god still. Fact is, my son and his kids will end up paying for these jokers having a decade long hookers and blow party. And people do not seem too concerned with putting them away or getting our money, and the Brits' money, back from the Caymans. Personally, the only justice that I can even hope for at this point is that I see one of a handful of these #$/&% walking down the street, I will punch him in the face and gladly spend a few days in jail.

The banks were nationalized, which helped to some degree, but all still refuse to abolish basic issues that screw the populace, such as "price insurance" on loans (the principal on loans rises with inflation which means effectively that people will never be able to pay off their loans. I have been paying on my loan for a few years now and the principal is higher than when I started, let alone the additional interest), and banks still refuse consolidation loans, meaning you can get screwed with "price insurance" many times over with a few small loans and end up not being able to pay your monthly bills in very quick fashion.

The process of rewriting the constitution has been a joke at best, and I will believe it when I see it.

As far as this not being reported, I watched much of this on CNN and yes even FOX News at the time - and even saw myself in front of a bonfire for a second. I also read about it in many US and UK papers, etc.

As for things being fine in Iceland now as someone said, I would beg to differ. People are really getting hit by this and many have moved to Norway. And as far as the guy that not only falsely claims it was not reported at all but then claims that the reason is that we are a nation of fishermen, well, that's conjecture on top of false information. And BTW I make videogames (including one of the larger MMOs in the Western world), am not a fisherman, and Iceland has a lot of high-tech and world record levels of Internet connectivity, etc... PS I would remind you that any one individual can have great impact on the world, let alone 320.000 individuals.

In general, and I mean this as kindly as possible and with no presumptions, I would personally tend to abstain on commenting authoritatively on countries that I have never visited.

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Response to ExPatLeftist (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:51 AM

24. Awesome response, thank you

Very genuine, a quality in decline these days.

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Response to Puzzledtraveller (Reply #24)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:57 AM

27. Thank you very much, Puzzledtraveller. :) n/t

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Response to ExPatLeftist (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 12:09 PM

28. thank you so much for your perspective

I will consider more carefully when I cheer for Iceland

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Response to librechik (Reply #28)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 12:22 PM

29. Thank you :)

There are definitely some great things about Iceland, otherwise I would not live there. As I am currently posting from China, there are many things that I miss about Iceland (like the freedom to connect to Facebook without Internet shenanigans) and there many great things about Iceland, but unfortunately, not this sham that started off so brilliantly and beautifully... I cried a bit as I took part in the protests because it was so powerful and so (mostly) peaceful. That made the fact that that this turned out to be just more cronyism and smoke and mirrors somehow worse. Hope dashed.

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Response to ExPatLeftist (Reply #29)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 03:49 PM

34. More on "more cronyism and smoke and mirrors"

The point I remembered from an article written last year:

http://www.counterpunch.org/2011/11/14/vulture-funds-gorge-on-stricken-economies/

..was that after it looked like the reasonable people were again in charge, with a clear
line of separation between the 'failed banks' and the 'still-good bank' the banksters
made huge speculative investments in the 'failed banks.' They went on a buying spree,
buying debt, in hopes of turning every bit of 'bad paper' in to profit, for themselves.

From the link, above:

The vultures became owners of two out of three new Icelandic banks. On IMF advice the government negotiated an agreement so loose as to give them a hunting license on Icelandic households and businesses. The new banks acted much as U.S. collection agencies do when they buy bad credit-card debts, bank loans or unpaid bills from retailers at 30 per cent of face value and then hound the debtors to squeeze out as much as they can, by hook or by crook.

These scavengers of the financial system are the bane of many states. But there is now a danger of their rising to the top of the international legal pyramid, to a point where they are in a position to oppress entire national economies.

Iceland’s case has a special twist. By law Icelandic mortgages and many other consumer loans are linked to the country’s soaring consumer price index. Owners of these loans not only can demand 100 per cent of face value, but also can add on the increase in debt principal from the indexing.


And that's where we are, again. Big (BIG) money investors buying up future profits (current debt), on the cheap, expecting to be
"paid back" -- to the last aurar. (1 Krona = 100 Aurar)

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Response to ExPatLeftist (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 12:34 PM

31. Thanks for writing this, this is the very first thing I saw this morning and was

 

about to respond when I read your reply. I think many Americans, are looking for some, any solution to this global robbery, and Iceland has fared somewhat better than everybody else. So it is natural to interpret what little they have seen through that filter of desperate hope.

The bottom line to all this is the same as it has been for centuries, the fundamental system that the global economy is built on was developed by the banks to benefit the banks and any benefit that filters down to the 'small people' is the side effect of its inability to keep it all. The system itself is brilliant, we just need to understand that it was not developed for them.

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Response to ExPatLeftist (Reply #21)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 10:07 PM

38. Thanks very much. This is ballyhooed a lot in teabagger and CT circles.

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Response to ExPatLeftist (Reply #21)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 05:34 AM

44. Thanks for your posts on this topic.

 

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:44 AM

22. exactly! the banks everywhere have been ripping off the people for years--why should we pay

their extortion demands? And destroy our democracies in the act?

Iceland is a fantastic role model.

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Response to librechik (Reply #22)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:56 AM

26. Please I beg you do not use Iceland as a role model in this case.

That Facebook post is, simply put, BS. How I wish it were not so... Please see my post above for more detail.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 11:55 AM

25. This is one case of letting the market sort it out that actually does work.

It's not in the news because...

Well, they want to run the show instead of letting the market decide what should fail without being bailed out.


I'm disoriented this morning. But that's my fuzzy comment.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 12:22 PM

30. the threat of a good example

 

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:26 PM

35. Over the last decade or so, many countries in Latin America....

...have successfully wrested their governments away from the 1%.
[font size=3]"The worst enemy of humanity is U.S. capitalism. That is what provokes uprisings like our own, a rebellion against a system, against a neoliberal model, which is the representation of a savage capitalism. If the entire world doesn't acknowledge this reality, that nation states are not providing even minimally for health, education and nourishment, then each day the most fundamental human rights are being violated."[/font]
----Bolivian Reform President Evo Morales

(FDR said much the same thing in 1944 with his Economic Bill of Rights.)

They have given us a Blue Print for "CHANGE."

When the Working Class & the Poor realize WE have more in common with each other
than we have in common with the 1% and their employees in Washington,
we can have the change we deserve.



[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

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Response to bvar22 (Reply #35)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 11:21 AM

48. Yes, after much suffering under IMF rules, Argentina defaulted on its debt

and is finally getting out of its financial hole.

Individuals are allowed to declare bankruptcy if their financial burdens are intolerable. Their creditors have to take a bath.

Why can't countries be allowed the same right?

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 05:36 PM

36. Humbly submit that Iceland has a Population of 320,000

It's an Island nation with a tiny population with little impact on the international stage. Iceland's debts were already written off long ago on the world markets. It's already bankrupt.Not very many people would ever travel to Iceland. It has no serious military. Sadly it's just not a major story.

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Response to SadPanda (Reply #36)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:28 AM

47. Not many people would ever travel to Iceland? I beg to differ!

I live in Minneapolis, which has direct air connections to Europe on Icelandair. Many, many people in Minneapolis (and the other cities served by Icelandair) have taken advantage of free stopovers on the way to and from other European countries.

At the last meeting of a film group that I belong to (a couple hundred members), Iceland was mentioned in passing, and the discussion moderator asked for a show of hands of people who had been to Iceland. About 1/4 of the audience raised their hands.

I chose Icelandair because it flies directly into the city where my Norwegian relatives live with a 90-minute transfer in Reykjavik. (Since Iceland is a Schengen Treaty country, you go through immigration and customs there and you're done for the rest of your European trip.)

On the way back, I took advantage of the stopover option to spend three days there. It's a great destination, especially if you're into nature and outdoor activities. The tourist infrastructure is well set up, and there are plenty of organized tours and activities (pony treks, glacier hikes, bathing in thermal pools, whale watching---which is beginning to bring in more money than whale hunting, cross-country skiing in the winter).

The Icelandic language is opaque to outsiders, but most people speak English and at least one other language. On one of the tours I took, the guide asked how many people spoke which languages. When it turned out that everyone spoke either English or German, he gave his spiel in both languages. His English was flawless with only a slight accent, and his German sounded pretty good, too.

I'd like to do another stopover on my next trip to Europe, whenever that is.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 10:08 PM

39. kicked.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 10:11 PM

41. DU Rec. nt

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Wed Apr 11, 2012, 10:18 PM

42. Amazing! nt

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 03:52 AM

43. PLEASE READ POST #21 BEFORE RECCING

This is simply not true.

I do not mean to be a pain, but this is simply untrue and it's a shame that so many are taking it as gospel.

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Thu Apr 12, 2012, 06:04 AM

45. We have a One Percent Media!

They sound like they care about us but it's an act! They serve and protect the one percent, never forget that!

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 10:12 AM

46. I'm arguing with someone that this is a socialist answer

and he's saying that it's not. Am I wrong?

Iceland has a socialist gov't in power.
This is a regulator (in this case, the gov't) making a decision that impacts a business's money

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Response to Lawlbringer (Reply #46)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:37 PM

49. Why do you think it is socialist?

I would say that bailing out banks is socialism for the banks. I'm interested to hear your reasoning.

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Response to Quantess (Reply #49)

Sat Apr 14, 2012, 11:40 AM

52. Well...

Despite certain legislation, banks and businesses aren't people. Socialism, at it's heart, is about regulation. So if a government is the regulator (as it is in this case) and they make decisions pertaining to a business's money, that's socialism. It's not between a business and their consumers. So, isn't it inherently a Socialist solution.

I'm no expert, but I"m trying to get there, so if I'm wrong, please, let me know!

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Response to Lawlbringer (Reply #52)

Sun May 13, 2012, 10:18 PM

53. Letting you know.

Socialism is about ownership, the common ownership of all means of production by the totality of the population from which the benefits derived are shared by the population.

Capitalism is about private ownership of the means of production to the benefit of the owners.

Regulation occurs in both systems.

Regulation is not socialism.

Lack of regulation leads to crony capitalism were by the owners promote their self interest to the detriment of anybody else.

It is more complicated, but in a nut shell that's the difference.

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Response to westerebus (Reply #53)

Mon May 14, 2012, 05:33 AM

54. Excellent.

Thank you!

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Response to Lawlbringer (Reply #54)

Mon May 14, 2012, 07:46 AM

55. You're welcome. n/t

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Response to Pharaoh (Original post)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 05:45 PM

50. Because they did what every other country should have done, start arresting those responsible

for the Global Meltdown including elected officials and bankers, then refuse to give up your sovereignty and refuse to allow Global Capitalists install Goldman Sachs officials in your government. And because they prove that the current 'austerity' policies, letting criminals off the hook and killing democracy is not the way to solve the problems created by those who are now claiming they can fix them.

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Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #50)

Fri Apr 13, 2012, 09:02 PM

51. I wish they had started arresting them.... n/t

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