Really need some advice

[avebury]

This is the scenario. I live in the bible belt. Conservatism and religion are really important where I work. We have a legal issue that may require me to be deposed and potentially have to testify. My dilemma? I have a personal problem with having to take an oath on a bible. I also have no interest in being outed for my personal beliefs (which do not jive with my co-workers). What you do?

[RagAss]

1. It's just a book..put your hand on it and say "I do"...

You won't convert....or turn into a toad......I promise.

[avebury]

7. The problem is that I hold a government job

in an agency that does not seem to believe in separation of church and state. My concern is the impact that coming out as not a Christian can negatively impact my promotional opportunities.

[shireen]

14. I agree with RagAss

There are more important things to worry about.

Unless you have an unlimited supply of energy and time, pick your battles carefully.

[Ms. Toad]

19. Generally speaking, oaths are no taken on the bible - and do not contain reference to God.

So if it is the religious language or bible, it shouldn't be a problem in a court proceeding.

I cannot take an oath for religious reasons - so not taking an oath does not necessarily out you as a non-Christian. Any Christian who takes the bible literally should also be refusing to take an oath. Matthew 3:34-37 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

All court proceedings allow witnesses to make an affirmation rather than take an oath - speak to the person administering the oath separately and let them know that you need to make an affirmation rather than take an oath. It is unlikely that anyone listening will notice the difference. (From my faith based perspective, an affirmation also violates the spirit of Matthew 3:36-37, because it declares that on this one special occasion I am telling the truth - but on any other I am free to lie. I do use an affirmation rather than an oath, but at this point I have chosen not to fight the affirmation.)

[pleinair]

26. your answer is so interesting

Thanks for explaining that

[Ms. Toad]

28. You're welcome.

Even if I'm not in a position to challenge the requirement to take an oath, at the moment, at least I can occasionally explain why I wrestle with it every time it comes up for me personally.

[Brickbat]

2. You'll have to weigh "personal problem" with "no interest," I guess.

Asking what others would do seems unhelpful, as you have said you do not want to be outed despite your "personal problem." Do you want to make a gesture meaningless to yourself and important to others, but feel like a hypocrite for giving the impression that it is meaningful to you; or act in a way that is true to yourself?

[Lex]

3. I once saw a very religious person refuse the Bible because she thought it

was disrespectful to use the Bible that way. She preferred to take the oath. So not using the Bible doesn't necessarily mean you aren't religious. You may just prefer not to use the Bible in that manner.

[jeff47]

4. The oath doesn't have to be on a bible.

After all, having an atheist like me swear on the bible is as meaningful as me swearing on an encyclopedia.

As a result, courts have required that alternate oaths must exist. And many places no longer use an actual bible.

If you're an atheist or non-Christian and are concerned that will hurt your job, you could claim to be one of the Christian sects that believes swearing on the bible is a sin....7th day adventist, I think?

Alternatively, you could just say you feel it is an inappropriate use of the bible - swearing in vain or similar sin.

[Ms. Toad]

20. Quakers are another -

It isn't a sin, precisely. It comes from Matthew (I've quoted the exact source above). Essentially the idea is that you should always speak the truth, so it is wrong to swear that - on this particular occasion (and by implication only on this occasion) you can really trust me to be telling the truth.

[alphafemale]

5. I live deep in the Bible belt.

Only as a sworn in once...but as witness or juror a few times.

You just hold up your hand and swear most times I have ever seen.

The bible or whatever is generally just swearing into office.

[avebury]

8. Just as long as I don't have to say

so help me God (or any words to that effect).

[RebelOne]

10. So do I, I am in Georgia.

I had to appear for jury duty twice. But jurors were not asked to swear on the bible, just to raise our right hand and say "I affirm".

[csziggy]

6. Is there an attorney involved

Ask if you can be sworn in without the religious part.

I had to be disposed in a legal case and asked the lawyer. She simply told the other people involved to leave out the "god" part and I just had to swear to tell the truth.

In general depositions are taken in private and the contents are only shared with the lawyers and the relevant parties, so any difference in your swearing in and other people in the firm should not be made public.

I am not an attorney, just relating my experience.

[rug]

9. You have the choice of making an affirmation instead of an oath.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmation_in_law#United_States_of_America

The purpose of either is to make the witness liable to a perjury charge if she or he lies. Without an oath, or affirming to tell the truth, there can be no prosecution for perjury which increase the likelihood a witness will lie.

BTW, you'll love the oath they administer in my county:

"Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth as you shall answer to the ever-loving God on the Last Great Day?"

[taught_me_patience]

11. I don't think they use bibles for oaths any more n/t

[IdaBriggs]

12. When it was sworn for jury duty, we just held up our hands.

There were no bibles present. It isn't like it is a magical book that will shoot lightning at you if you lie. Do you swear to tell the truth? If so, tell the truth.

[Egnever]

13. If you dont believe in the bible

Why do you care?

[Shankapotomus]

15. When I don't feel like enduring people making a big deal

of my Atheism, I will go through the motions of their rituals just to avoid hearing them. It doesn't change who I am and I would still say I didn't believe in the existence of any gods if asked.

If you're not comfortable volunteering your non-beliefs in the environment you're in, there's no need to feel bad about not doing so.

[LiberalAndProud]

16. You could always object on scriptural grounds.

[center][font size="1"]But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
[right]Matthew 5:34[/font][/center]


This is a matter of personal conscience, isn't it?

[Laelth]

17. Varies by jurisdiction.

In my allegedly conservative jurisdiction, as an attorney I am required by law to ask people who give testimony the following:

Do you solemnly swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

That's it. There's no Bible involved--never has been. The witness need only raise his or her right hand and say, "I do." Note that in my jurisdiction, Georgia, witnesses are given the option to either swear or affirm. That's written into Georgia law to acknowledge and protect non-religious people. The religious people get to swear, and the non-religious get to affirm, but both are completely acceptable in the eyes of the law, and the witness only needs to say "I do." The witness is not required to acknowledge either their religious or non-religious nature when giving testimony, and nobody needs to worry about a Bible. We actually do practice separation of church and state despite the fact that some conservatives don't like that separation.

I hope that helps.

-Laelth

[Nye Bevan]

21. That's how it worked when I was deposed.

No Bible in sight.

[Ex Lurker]

18. There are religious denominations that don't believe in swearing oaths

so by refusing, you wouldn't necessarily be outing yourself as a nonbeliever. Most of the time they say something like, "do you swear or affirm?" So it's not specific.

[WinkyDink]

22. Take the oath. It's about the truth of your testimony, not the truth of your beliefs.

[cbayer]

23. You have to make a decision whether to come out or not.

No one or thing is going to smite you if you swear on the bible even though you don't believe in it.

So you have to weigh the consequences of coming out against just doing something that you should probably just see as silly.

[NCTraveler]

24. I have testified in court a couple of times....

and have never had to put my hand on a bible. One of those times was smack in the middle of the Bible Belt. The others were a little further south on the I-4 corridor.

[MineralMan]

25. Do whatever you wish, and then tell the truth.

Personally, I simply say, "I will affirm my oath" before any Bible is presented to me. Frankly, though, I cannot remember seeing a bible anytime I have been in a situation where an oath was required. That might be different in the Bible belt, but you can simply and quietly say, "I will affirm my oath." That should solve the problem. If it does not, then you have another decision to make.

[YarnAddict]

27. Do they still do that anywhere?

I served on a jury a couple of months ago, and was surprised to see that witnesses did not swear in on a Bible. I believe they just had to raise their right hands and swear an oath.

But, it may vary from state to state. And perhaps it is at the discretion of the judge, so it may vary from courtroom to courtroom.

[Gothmog]

29. Bible in a depo?

Normally there are no bibles in a deposition. You are asked to swear to tell the truth and that is it.

[frogmarch]

30. Mr. froggy was sworn in

once (in Wyoming) by putting his hand on the bible and saying, "Whatever."

That might not work everywhere, though. Like Mr. froggy, I'm an atheist, and f I ever have to be sworn in, I'll go ahead and put my hand on the bible and say "I do." It wouldn't be a big deal to me. It's just a book.