There is nothing remotely progressive about Rand Paul

[DemocratSinceBirth]

Needed to get that off my chest...

Please carry on...

[shenmue]

1. Anyone who is pro-discrimination

can't be a progressive. It's that simple.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

2. I understand his argument but reject it.

People's right trump property rights when it comes to stuff like staying at a hotel, having lunch or dinner at a restaurant, or buying a home.

[sufrommich]

5. Paul thinks property owners have unlimited rights, a woman's right to

control her own body not so much.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. He also opposes marriage equality, believes it's a state issue.

Him and his dad aren't even true libertarians. It makes no difference to the person whose rights are being denied if the entity doing it is a state or national government.

[sufrommich]

9. There's no such thing as a "true libertarian". It's a nonsense

political party filled with Ayn Rand wannabes.Even Ayn Rand was a fake.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Why aren't their "true" libertarians?

Of course I'm not one but why couldn't a person subscribe to that ideology?

[sufrommich]

14. I guess there could,but I've never met one. Most are libertarians when it

comes to commerce and conservative when it comes to social issues.

[lame54]

29. because they all gladly use the roads

[DemocratSinceBirth]

30. I have debated several

They would argue you can have toll roads.

I think the major problem is when it comes to the police department, fire department, and the military you have free rider problems,

[lame54]

31. you can put up a toll booth on an...

already built government funded road

or

you can build your own toll road that travels through govt seized land

i can't imagine a private business negotiating and buying all the land that there road would travel through

[FSogol]

37. The Onion explained it the best:

Libertarian Reluctantly Calls Fire Department

CHEYENNE, WY—After attempting to contain a living-room blaze started by a cigarette, card-carrying Libertarian Trent Jacobs reluctantly called the Cheyenne Fire Department Monday. "Although the community would do better to rely on an efficient, free-market fire-fighting service, the fact is that expensive, unnecessary public fire departments do exist," Jacobs said. "Also, my house was burning down." Jacobs did not offer to pay firefighters for their service.

[VanillaRhapsody]

3. Nothing.....you are SOOO right!

[Autumn]

4. There is nothing remotely human about Rand Paul

Please carry on...

[conservaphobe]

6. That overlapping with the crazies on our side and their side...

Would be frightening if they weren't such an insignificant part of the electorate.

[MohRokTah]

8. He'll never get past his past white supremacist affiliations. eom

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. I thought that was his dad. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree./NT

[LWolf]

11. Okay.

Not that I ever thought otherwise.

[loyalsister]

13. A basic libertarian principle is

zero taxes. That includes corporations. If there is an absolute need for roads or something it should be paid for with a regressive sales tax.
Not progressive.

On social issue Rand Paul is extremely conservative. When he takes the libertarian position on zero government involvement that means health care, social security, and no involvement in helping people living in poverty.
Not the least bit progressive

I think those things totally nullify any possible progressive positions on MJ and foreign policy.

[freshwest]

17. Nailed it. And why I don't listen to defenders attacking Dems anymore. Thanks.

[Jim Lane]

15. Because FSM forbid that a politician should be anything other than Pure Good or Pure Evil.

Is Rand Paul "a progressive" without qualification? Of course not.

Is he even "mostly a progressive even though there are some problems"? Of course not.

But to say that there's "nothing remotely progressive about" him is to say that we can't handle anything complicated. There are some issues on which his position is the progressive one. To say that there's nothing progressive about him is to say that progressives must, for example, support a hawkish, even imperialistic foreign policy.

In the hypothetical matchup between Hillary Clinton and Rand Paul (or between Hillary Clinton and any other Republican who's attracted any serious discussion at all), I would hold my nose and vote for Clinton. I would cast that vote even though there are some issues on which his views are closer to mine than hers are. (See, that word "some" is very important. It means that I can prefer Clinton to Paul without trying to deny Paul every last scrap of praise.)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

16. David Duke and Pat Buchanan opposed the war in Iraq

I can say with absolute confidence there is nothing progressive about David Duke and Pat Buchanan.

[pnwmom]

18. There's an OP now seriously trying to argue that Paul overall is to the left of Hillary Clinton.

That is the context.

[Jim Lane]

23. Then I disagree with that OP as well as with this one.

Thanks for telling me about that OP, which I hadn't seen. My disagreement with it, however, doesn't require me to go all the way in the other direction.

The Freepers are very much into the all-or-nothing approach. I can easily picture one of them writing, "There is nothing remotely conservative about Hillary Clinton." I hope DUers are a little more sophisticated. We can point to specific issues on which Clinton takes a more conservative stand than does Rand Paul, and yet deny that Clinton overall is to the right of Rand Paul.

[AverageJoe90]

19. As I've personally said before, he's a bit like the 21st Century version of Ted Bilbo.....

He will indeed sometimes use progressive-sounding rhetoric. He may even nominally get behind progressive causes once in a while. But you peel this onion, and you get nothing but a lotta stink.....

[betterdemsonly]

20. He is more progressive on foreign policy

Hillary is more progressive on choice.

Neither are progressive on economic or the environment.

There aren't any progressives running so you will lose many of them to Paul.

[quaker bill]

21. No he is not progressive

he is more of an isolationist. There is a stark difference.

[betterdemsonly]

22. He is not a progressive but neither is Hillary

Hillary's foreign policy is imperialist. She even admits its all about maintaining the American empire. That is not progressive. An isolationist is preferable to someone who will start a war with Iran from a progressive standpoint.

[quaker bill]

36. You will get no argument from me on Hillary

But isolationism is stupid, and vastly more stupid than it sounds. We actually do need to engage, but bombers and the threat to use them are not diplomatic tools.

[NCTraveler]

33. He is not more progressive on foreign policy.

You could not be more wrong.

[SidDithers]

24. But Code Pink loves him!!...

Sid

[Iggo]

25. Of course there isn't.

He's just having fun saying the things he knows Clinton should be saying but is too afraid to say.

He's doing his job as a republican, which is to make the democratic front runner look bad. And he's having a field day because nobody's playing defense.

[DrewFlorida]

26. Libertarianism is not Progressivism, Libertarianism is the opposite of Progressivism.

Libertarianism wants to take us backwards, not forwards!

[HooptieWagon]

27. A few of my younger friends liked Ron Paul.

OK... at least they were following politics. Does Rand Paul have the same following among youth (18-30) his father has? My friends don't talk about him.

[get the red out]

28. No, there isn't

He is:

Against reproductive rights
Against any programs to help people
Against health care
Friends with white supremacists/militias
Against environmental regulations
Against gun regulations
other "fill in the blank" liberal policies

Below is Rand Paul's second amendment rally when he was running for Senate. It was guarded by a militia group.

http://www.barefootandprogressive.com/2010/04/a-closer-look-at-rand-pauls-militia-friends.html

[Iggo]

34. ^^^^ This.

[Puzzledtraveller]

32. what is progressive about our current leaders in charge?

and the ones who will be wanting to be in charge next?

[JCMach1]

35. THANK YOU!!!

apart from being right about once a year on a Civil Liberty issue, he is a DOUCHE...


Please, know your douches...