I Support The Actions Described By President Obama Tonight, Ladies And Gentlemen

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:46 PM

Sunlei (22,651 posts)

1. yes, President Obama was just on live TV and I support these actions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Sunlei (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:02 PM

TheMick (23 posts)

16. Can I get an explanation.....

....why is it ok to attack Iraq to stop ISIS, but it was wrong to attack Iraq to stop Saddam Hussein ?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to TheMick (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:05 PM

Sunlei (22,651 posts)

18. who is "attacking Iraq"?

you probably should use a search engine to answer your questions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to TheMick (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:11 PM

sheshe2 (80,772 posts)

23. ??????????????????????

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to TheMick (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:21 PM

Fred Drum (293 posts)

28. i'll try

first, saddam was secular, not a murderous religious fuck. he didn't try to kill everyone who didn't have the same imaginary friend.
when we attacked iraq in 2003, we killed, and caused to be killed, hundreds of thousands of people who really were just innocent bystanders. and the whole profit motivation was particularly odious.

second, ISIS are murderous religious fucks, currently threatening tens of thousands innocent bystanders. their lives can't be ended soon enough. there is at least some amount of altruism involved.

let me know if you need more

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Fred Drum (Reply #28)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:25 PM

BobbyBoring (1,965 posts)

122. Well said Fred

N/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Fred Drum (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:40 AM

sabrina 1 (62,325 posts)

152. Where are they getting their weapons? And does mean that we will completely give up

finally, the insane notion of arming them in Syria. THESE are some of the 'protesters' we were arming there, another WRONG decision, thank the gods the British Parliament, fearing they would be arming extremists, and they were, finally for once, did the right thing and just said 'NO'.

Cheney/Bush created this massive tragedy, a couple of nights ago the President told us that the torturers were just 'patriots' who were 'scared by 9/11.

What exactly should be done with someone who is responsible for all of this?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #152)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:20 AM

1StrongBlackMan (31,849 posts)

220. May I offer you this? ...

And does mean that we will completely give up finally, the insane notion of arming them in Syria.

When the source of your opinion hails from WorldDailyNut, Rand Paul, and/or InforWars, and is based on the rantings of the likes of J. McCain and L. Graham ... that's probably NOT an opinion that should be expressed on a Democratic/Liberal message board, without some serious vetting of sources.

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/06/23/did-the-us-really-arm-and-train-the-isis-terrorists/
http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/isis-saudi-arabia-iraq-syria-bandar/373181/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #220)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:38 AM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

226. Damn, Sir: When A Fella From 'American Thinker' Is The Voice Of Reason, Someone Has A Problem....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Reply #226)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:48 AM

1StrongBlackMan (31,849 posts)

228. But ...

I guess when one finds a narrative that fits/feeds one's rage ... it matters, not the source.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #228)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:32 PM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

241. Confirmation Bias, Sir, Is A Cruel Mistress

Who delights in making her thralls look plumb ridiculous in public....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #220)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 01:09 AM

sabrina 1 (62,325 posts)

329. The source of my information comes from the British Parliament. I do not freguent nor am I

familiar with these sources YOU appear to be so familiar with. THIS was the reason why the Brits, not usually shy about getting involved in our wars, refused to vote for any more assistance for the Syrian 'rebels'. Talk to them and all the others who have warned against arming those 'rebels'. I don't read right wingnut sources so wouldn't have a clue or any interest in anything they have to say. Feel free to give them clicks, I refuse to do so.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #329)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 09:08 AM

1StrongBlackMan (31,849 posts)

330. You know someone in the British Parliament? I'm impressed! ...

At any rate ... your post is a nice summation of what you haven't read ... including the "not usually shy" part.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to 1StrongBlackMan (Reply #330)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 12:43 PM

sabrina 1 (62,325 posts)

340. I read real news not right wingnut sites. The British Parliament voted against

their Govt getting involved in the US's proposal to get involved militarily in Syria. Very unusual for the British Parliament to oppose their own PM, in this case, Cameron, who tried to make a case for supporting the US in its military intervention. Parliament rejected Cameron's proposal to aid the US in air strikes against Syria. Thankfully.

The British Parliament also split over arming the 'Syrian Rebels' expressing fears last year that those arms could get into the hands of 'extremists'.

Cameron Faces Serious Cabinet Split Over Arming Syrian Rebels

The ministers, who include the Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg, are said to have warned at a recent meeting of the National Security Council that supplying weapons to the Free Syrian Army might only escalate the conflict, killing many more people without any realistic prospect of decisive victory. They also believe it could be "next to impossible" to ensure that British arms do not fall into the hands of Islamist militants.

.....

Mark Field, the MP for the Cities of London and Westminster, said: "I'm concerned last week's EU declaration appears to bring us nearer to aiding and arming people who would be subject to 24-hour surveillance if they lived in this country."

Thank the gods for people who see the danger of arming extremists for political purposes. Looks like they were right. Same thing in Iraq, in Libya and elsewhere.

Only our old Colonial allies, the PMs of France and Britain appear to have wanted to ignore that reality. Libya and Iraq are now failed states, and the American people were forced to pay for that. But finally it looks like even the Brits have had enough.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #340)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 12:46 PM

1StrongBlackMan (31,849 posts)

343. Okay. eom.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to sabrina 1 (Reply #152)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:57 PM

Sheepshank (12,504 posts)

247. statements of "fact" without links

-typical

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Sheepshank (Reply #247)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 03:18 PM

Tarheel_Dem (31,144 posts)

276. This ^ ^ ^

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Fred Drum (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:47 AM

bowens43 (16,064 posts)

227. not even close to justifying it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Fred Drum (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 02:18 PM

lark (22,748 posts)

262. Why does the religion matter at all?

Sadaam wasn't a good guy, but he was not threatening us in any way. ISIS aren't good guys either, but why are we getting involved in a war with them when it's just taking sides in a civil war - Sunni's vs Shiites. Shiites are every bit as murderous as Sunni's, they just aren't reported as much because they are "our" guys.

I do not support any involvement with Iraq - period the end.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Fred Drum (Reply #28)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 06:12 PM

DocwillCuNow (162 posts)

302. Give me that old time religion..... NOT. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Fred Drum (Reply #28)

Sun Aug 10, 2014, 09:27 AM

Katashi_itto (10,175 posts)

349. As a desert storm vet... No, not even close to being worth involved again.

We predicted exactly this at the onset of Desert Storm and were ignored.

Fuck this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to TheMick (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:27 PM

Politicub (12,154 posts)

38. Huh?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to TheMick (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:33 PM

gateley (62,683 posts)

44. We weren't attacking -- we were "liberating". nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to TheMick (Reply #16)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:04 PM

Spitfire of ATJ (32,723 posts)

And NO ground troops. I'm good with that. We can help prevent this genocide, so we should.

Sometimes we can't.... or couldn't, sadly. What would be the fallout if we left those people to die on that mountain?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to femmocrat (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:31 AM

ripcord (4,138 posts)

145. Mr President

you have the official ripcord seal of approval.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:47 PM

Marrah_G (28,581 posts)

3. I missed it- can you give the basics?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Marrah_G (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:50 PM

IronGate (2,186 posts)

8. Humanitarian aid,

targeted air strikes and no combat troops on the ground.
An excellent speech.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to IronGate (Reply #8)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:53 PM

Marrah_G (28,581 posts)

15. Thank you!

I agree with the humanitarian aid immensely.

I agree with airstrikes only if they keep them away from civilians, something I am not overly confident of.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Marrah_G (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:09 PM

kardonb (777 posts)

21. civilians

rebels use this as their more successful tactics : hide among civilians ; then , when there are civilian casualties , which are mostly unavoidable , we are the bad guys . Its a no-win situation , unfortunately .

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Marrah_G (Reply #15)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:25 PM

humbled_opinion (4,423 posts)

36. I am sure President Obama

will only drop humanitarian bombs.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:31 PM

Marrah_G (28,581 posts)

42. LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #36)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:37 PM

m-lekktor (3,675 posts)

55. lol

be nice

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #36)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 03:12 PM

11 Bravo (23,855 posts)

274. Since ISIS is practicing only humanitarian beheadings, his hand was forced.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to IronGate (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:25 AM

NM_Birder (1,591 posts)

221. If there are air strikes, there are ALREADY combat troops on the ground.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Marrah_G (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:51 PM

Nye Bevan (25,406 posts)

12. Obama authorizes airstrikes in Iraq to stop genocide

WASHINGTON — President Obama said Thursday he authorized "targeted airstrikes" if needed to protect U.S. personnel in Iraq, as well as airdrops of food and water to religious minorities in Iraq who are under siege from Islamic militants and trapped on a mountain top.

The U.S. military made an initial airdrop of meals and water to thousands of civilians threatened by militants on Thursday. The aircraft that made the drop safely exited the region, the official said.

"Today, America is coming to help," Obama said. Innocent families face the prospect of "genocide," Obama said, justifying U.S, military action that could eventually include airstrikes.

The U.S. "cannot turn a blind eye," Obama said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/08/07/iraq-christian-villages-flee/13710265/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Nye Bevan (Reply #12)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 02:25 PM

lark (22,748 posts)

266. Genocide OK in Gaza but not in Iraq?

Bad move and I'm surprised by all those blindly approving Obama's actions in escalating tensions in the Middle East.

Not buying this, it is not a good move. War is rarely ever the answer and it certainly won't fix this, will just cause more problems.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Marrah_G (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:51 PM

TBF (31,869 posts)

13. Targeted air strikes in Iraq -

humanitarian aids, no ground troops. Preventing genocide. People on a hill dying (I have not been following this story).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to TBF (Reply #13)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:10 PM

Sheepshank (12,504 posts)

252. Airstrikes on Isis should they make any hostile and overt moves towards Embassy

and other US assets in the area.

Trying to thward and redirect Isis travel plans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Marrah_G (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:51 PM

msanthrope (37,549 posts)

14. Humanitarian aid. Targeted strikes if ISIS moves to commit genocide.

No boots on the ground.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:47 PM

Logical (22,457 posts)

4. I do too. He is a class act and a smart man. I don't always agree with him but it is a joy to....

have such a intelligent leader who thinks before he reacts.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:48 PM

steve2470 (37,427 posts)

5. agreed ! nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:49 PM

TBF (31,869 posts)

6. I don't have a problem with it -

I like to see resources used to help actual people. I do agree we should help if we can to avoid genocide - maybe in Gaza as well?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:49 PM

Tom Rinaldo (22,768 posts)

7. I agree

Genocide is a word that gets thrown around a lot, often inaccurately, but ISIS sees nothing wrong with literally committing it. Obama's response is measured, responsible and for the greater part just.. Passive non action is not a moral option when we can do something meaningful with resources readily available without injecting troops..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

TheNutcracker This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 09:50 PM

msanthrope (37,549 posts)

10. Without a doubt. This is why I voted for the man. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.

Response to 1000words (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:31 PM

840high (17,196 posts)

41. Some are genocide - some

are not.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to 1000words (Reply #11)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 09:05 AM

delphi72 (74 posts)

213. "Genocide?"

Will the next person who believe a "genocide" is taking place in the middle east (as opposed to SW Asia) please pull their head out of their caboose?

And look up the word "genocide" and report back with a 1500 word paper on what it means and how it relates to the relationship between Israel and the Palestinian population.

Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to delphi72 (Reply #213)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 05:51 PM

hopemountain (3,919 posts)

296. you first.

pull your head out of your caboose so that you can hear the speech and be able read what genocide means. no need to write the 1500 word paper, however, since the president already wrote it for you.

1. the iraqi government requested assistance.
2. the palestinians did not.
3. how would you have proposed we stop the israeli government from perpetrating genocide on the palestinians - other than repeated efforts for ceasefires and lifiting of the blockades?

do you see how you expect the us to step into every crisis and rescue everyone even when it is not requested nor wanted? what do you want? world war 3?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:03 PM

moondust (19,447 posts)

I watched it on TV....

yet here it is....

http://www.whitehouse.gov/

he is angry and focused on the issue.

gotta go soon~

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to sheshe2 (Reply #135)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 02:06 AM

freshwest (53,661 posts)

170. Thanks. See these pictures today:

President Barack Obama meets with his national security advisors in the Situation Room of the White House, Aug. 7, 2014. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)

President Barack Obama meets with advisors in the Roosevelt Room of the White House, Aug. 4, 2014. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)

President Barack Obama meets with National Security Advisor Susan E. Rice and Tony Blinken, Deputy National Security Advisor, in the Oval Office, Aug. 1, 2014. (Official White House Photo by Pete Souza)

He looks so tired. So much violence and killing going on at once and he's trying to stop it with the only tools he has. And still there will be death.

Am posting the video and transcript in the BOG. Gotta get some sleep. Have a good night, sweets.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to freshwest (Reply #170)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 08:09 AM

sheshe2 (80,772 posts)

210. He does look tired, freshwest.

Not surprising since he is doing his job and that of our do nothing congress!

Thank you...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to sheshe2 (Reply #210)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 03:27 PM

Inkfreak (1,695 posts)

278. I was remarking to my wife

how difficult the presidency is. And how it takes a toll on the man. He's aged well in 8 years, don't get me wrong. But is visibly tiring for him, imo. He's going to get a much needed rest after his presidency. And yes, it's the ReThugs who are adding to that difficulty.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:12 PM

mcar (41,325 posts)

24. Agreed

A measured and compassionate response.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to mcar (Reply #24)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:31 PM

humbled_opinion (4,423 posts)

43. Absolutely, I am sure we will use pinpoint

accuracy and humanitarian methods kind of like how the Israelis bomb the Palestinians you know....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:13 PM

MohRokTah (15,429 posts)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to jberryhill (Reply #52)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:39 PM

Amonester (11,541 posts)

58. So they're all guilty before trial to you I see. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Amonester (Reply #58)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:45 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

67. there was a trial

I suggest you look into the story.

The Yazidis protested the trial and the sentences were never carried out due to their successful protest of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to jberryhill (Reply #67)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:47 PM

Amonester (11,541 posts)

71. Well, maybe the relatively small 'group' (compared to 40,000...) who did it were killed later? Or no

t? Who knows? Wiki?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to jberryhill (Reply #86)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:09 PM

sheshe2 (80,772 posts)

110. Excuse me....

they may need stones for their religion? Which is ugly sick and warped.

Yet, you said...

Maybe we will supply them stones for honor killings if they run out up there.

What a sick joke at the expense of a woman's life.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to sheshe2 (Reply #110)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:18 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

117. It's no joke

I cannot imagine how that could be taken as any sort of joke.

It is an observation about how we try to pick the "good guys" and "bad guys"

Tell me. In Rwanda, were you rooting for the Hutus or the Tutsis?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to jberryhill (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:57 AM

killbotfactory (13,566 posts)

157. So they deserve to be slaughtered! Great!

ISIS RULES!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to killbotfactory (Reply #157)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:01 AM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

159. No. I would not suggest we do that

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to jberryhill (Reply #159)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:21 AM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

163. But It Would Be Fair To Suggest, Sir, You Think Someone Ought To....

A fair summary of your posts here would be that the people of this sect do not deserve help, even if faced with massacre and extinction, because they seem to countenance, or many of them do countenance, some extremely backward and brutal mores, though these are not atypical of the area they inhabit, or the time they trace their roots to. It is not much of a step, and by some lights not a very important one, to go from saying someone in mortal peril does not deserve help to wishing godspeed on the one who imperils him. As you are doubtless aware, the incident you cite as proving the propriety of leaving these people unassisted resulted in about a thousand deaths in a co-ordinated attack involving several bombings in public places. And you are doubtless aware also that these 'honor killings', vile and despicable as they are, are common coin in the region, and hardly unique to this sect.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Reply #163)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:55 AM

renegade000 (2,301 posts)

168. yeah, this is pretty much the worst of what our side has to offer

some truly humanist concern being expressed

"because some women are victims of violence in this backwards culture, all the women in this culture deserve to die." that's the quality of moral reasoning that results when you're primarily concerned with making cynical political statements.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to jberryhill (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 07:45 AM

bklyncowgirl (7,960 posts)

209. This post is living proof that right wingers are not the only ones capable of sanctimony.

Are you suggesting that ISIS should simply be allowed to slaughter them?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to jberryhill (Reply #27)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 02:20 PM

Hekate (86,332 posts)

263. Let's nuke New York City because some of their cops are thugs

No point trying to change things

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Hekate (Reply #263)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 02:34 PM

jberryhill (62,444 posts)

268. Hardly analogous

Since the US is not proposing to harm them.

However, absent killing everyone in a corridor from where they are, back to where they were, and then presumably establishing a kill zone around them once they get there, what is the long term plan here?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:21 PM

Purveyor (29,876 posts)

29. I'm with you on this one, indeed. eom

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:22 PM

kelliekat44 (7,759 posts)

31. me too. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:22 PM

AuntPatsy (9,904 posts)

32. I'm not so sure I can agree, nor can I trust those representing me that have proven

Time and time again such decisions are usually not so cut and dry...

We continue to arm a certain country with weapons that are currently being used in a like wise criminal venture, nothing to see here, look away, we are the good guys now?

What are we doing to help the ongoing genocides in present day African nations?

How easily we are led to look the other way....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to AuntPatsy (Reply #32)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 06:49 PM

Squinch (49,291 posts)

308. ^^^This.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:23 PM

humbled_opinion (4,423 posts)

33. Sure IRAQ WAR III

Did he get congress approval? or is he still using the old AUMF? I am sure that the bombs he is dropping are humanitarian bombs right?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #33)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:35 PM

Gore1FL (20,765 posts)

51. The ones with food and water are humanitarian, yes

That's how airdrops are generally performed.

The ones with armaments to stop attempts at genocide might be considered humanitarian, if you are one of the minorities being exterminated.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Gore1FL (Reply #51)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:39 PM

LordGlenconner (1,348 posts)

No American troops on the ground, targeted air strikes if ISIS attempts genocide or American assests are threatened, the only air drops are those that are delivering humanitarian aid to those trapped people.
Would you rather see them wiped out by ISIS?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to IronGate (Reply #61)

Post removed

Response to Post removed (Reply #62)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:45 PM

IronGate (2,186 posts)

66. Such an intelligent answer.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to IronGate (Reply #66)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:41 PM

freshwest (53,661 posts)

131. He gave his opinion already, you missed it:

humbled_opinion (3,416 posts)

53. False choice....

The people should be free to leave the mountaintop on their own.... Maybe we should just send moses over there to guide them from the mountaintop....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025352741#post53

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to freshwest (Reply #131)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:52 PM

IronGate (2,186 posts)

136. I did miss it.

Thanks.
Not too bright of a comment.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Post removed (Reply #62)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:56 PM

HERVEPA (6,107 posts)

87. Schmuck

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to IronGate (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 07:28 AM

cwydro (51,308 posts)

208. I don't

Guess we can wait and see

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to IronGate (Reply #61)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:16 PM

Duval (4,280 posts)

237. I agree with you, IronGate.n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #39)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:41 PM

whereisjustice (2,941 posts)

59. Thanks. From the praise, sounded like he was pulling children from the rubble with his own hands

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to whereisjustice (Reply #34)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:32 PM

creeksneakers2 (7,424 posts)

125. He sent Kerry

Last I heard there was a cease fire.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to whereisjustice (Reply #34)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:07 AM

frazzled (18,398 posts)

139. Yes, we sent $47 million in humanitarian aid to Gaza two weeks ago

But we don't have to air-drop it in there.

The US will provide $15m to the UNRWA, the Palestinian refugee agency, which will meet part of the organisation's $60 million appeal for assistance.

The remaining $32m will come from the US Agency for International Development, including $10 million that was already directed towards the Palestinians but will be rechanneled to meet immediate needs, the State Department said.

http://www.aljazeera.com/humanrights/2014/07/us-promises-49m-gaza-aid-201472282419207161.html

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/obama-gaza-cease-fire-kerry-announces-aid-israel-hamas

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to frazzled (Reply #139)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 04:34 AM

Hissyspit (45,788 posts)

195. And we sent this, too:

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/25109-us-provides-israel-the-weapons-used-on-gaza

For example, in 2013, the United States sent Israel at least $196 million in parts for military airplanes and helicopters, a category that includes F-16 fighter jets and Apache helicopters, both of which Israel is currently using to attack Gazan homes, offices and farmland. Between January and May 2014, the United States had already exported $92 million in parts for military airplanes and helicopters.

- snip -

Official US military aid to Israel stands at about $3 billion per year due to a 10-year, $30 billion military aid package originally signed by former President George W. Bush and upheld under President Obama.

- snip -

Falk also pointed out that the US weapons exports to Israel violate the Arms Control Act of 1976. "There's no legal, political or moral argument that would uphold the claim that Israel is acting in legitimate self-defense," Falk said. "Gaza, from an international law point of view, is not a foreign state, but an occupied territory. It's not clear that you can exercise self-defense in relation to a territory that you are responsible for administering in accordance with international humanitarian law."

Lovely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:25 PM

zappaman (20,602 posts)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to humbled_opinion (Reply #94)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:15 PM

Sunlei (22,651 posts)

114. We have already dropped the supplies. The Iraq gov.& the people trapped asked for the help.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:34 PM

BKH70041 (961 posts)

47. More Popcorn

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:35 PM

gwheezie (3,580 posts)

48. The Iraq government asked for help

I think this is reasonable. I am still concerned about our diplomatic facilities being over run some day. We have a consulate in Erbil. We have support of Kurds. If more is to be done, it can't be us, I still can't figure out why the iraqi military still can't figure out how to fight.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to gwheezie (Reply #48)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:52 PM

LordGlenconner (1,348 posts)

79. Because they're incompetent and scared shitless

On the latter I can hardly blame them.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:43 PM

gateley (62,683 posts)

I was getting afraid everyone had somehow been lulled to sleep praising this move like it was helpful....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to kentuck (Reply #68)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:54 PM

BillZBubb (10,650 posts)

84. Yeah, kentuck, it is good to be wary of these things.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to IronGate (Reply #158)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:02 AM

kelly1mm (4,503 posts)

kudos to President Obama

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:51 PM

BillZBubb (10,650 posts)

78. I am always skeptical of this sort of thing and would like to see Maliki replaced,

but if the president sticks with the parameters he discussed, I am in. The humanitarian aspect is the most important.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:53 PM

DesertFlower (11,649 posts)

82. so do i.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:54 PM

Rapillion (51 posts)

83. One might ask though

Why the same consideration is not given to the Palestinians in Gaza?

It's a rhetorical question and the answer is obvious.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Rapillion (Reply #83)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 10:56 PM

BillZBubb (10,650 posts)

90. That, sadly, is an "inconvenient" question. nt.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Rapillion (Reply #83)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 04:45 PM

Tarheel_Dem (31,144 posts)

290. And "one might" think it's a stupid analogy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Rapillion (Reply #83)

Sat Aug 9, 2014, 12:45 PM

msanthrope (37,549 posts)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to LittleBlue (Reply #89)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:07 PM

ancianita (33,588 posts)

And now I'm going to try to avoid reading any of the comments here from those who think this president can do no right.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:12 PM

betsuni (23,611 posts)

112. I was wondering what he was going to do

Literally between Iraq and a hard place.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:16 PM

davidpdx (22,000 posts)

115. K & R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:19 PM

Drunken Irishman (34,857 posts)

118. I would be very suspicious of those who didn't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #118)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 07:13 AM

m-lekktor (3,675 posts)

207. me too! TRAITORS!!!1

if they aren't with us they are against us!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Drunken Irishman (Reply #118)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 04:51 PM

Tarheel_Dem (31,144 posts)

292. One might think we've been completely overrun by a bunch of self centered Libertarians, who sit....

around overdosing on RT all day.

I can't believe some of the heartless responses we're seeing on an alledgedly "progressive" website.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:22 PM

davidthegnome (2,983 posts)

119. I think something had to be done.

I don't know what the proper course of action was, or is. I think the humanitarian aid is a good start. I also think that ISIS is pretty damn evil - I'm just not sure if our air strikes or bombs will make the difference we hope for. We could be creating martyrs, increasing their numbers, empowering them. Still, were it up to me... I would fight those evil men myself. I'm just not sure what the best way to go about it is. It may ultimately have to be ground forces that take them down.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:22 PM

Old and In the Way (37,540 posts)

120. I concur, as well.

The disintegration of Iraq and the ascendent rise of Islamic fundementalism was a direct consequence of the last administration's decision to take out the only secular leader that could hold the state together and keep the various religious/geopolitical factions in check. We have an obligation to neutralize the ISIS on their attempt to turn Iraq into a 15th Century society. I trust PBO to do the right thing on this issue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:32 PM

WillyT (72,631 posts)

126. I'm With You... As Long As It Is Limited...

Don't let this be an excuse to go back in... all out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to WillyT (Reply #126)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:35 PM

kentuck (110,435 posts)

127. Let's see how it develops over the next few days.

I am not convinced.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to kentuck (Reply #127)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:38 PM

WillyT (72,631 posts)

129. I Here Ya... I Want To Help Those Starving In The Mountains...

But I don't want it to be an excuse to go back in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:46 PM

Warren DeMontague (80,708 posts)

133. How about we throw that Trillion $/year weight of our M/I complex into a massive humanitarian effort

to save lives and stop the spread of the fucking ebola virus in Africa, before it becomes a planet-wide clusterfuck?

You want an enemy? There's your enemy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:48 PM

ReRe (10,597 posts)

134. I do think it was the proper decision, but...

... I will admit this afternoon when it was all going down (around 6pm EDT when word started trickling out,) the term "wag-the-dog" did flash thru the old noggin.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Thu Aug 7, 2014, 11:59 PM

Zorra (27,670 posts)

137. How do you know they are right and proper? I'm just asking because I

want to believe they are right and proper, but I've been lied to so many times that I am super skeptical of everything political. I'm serious, I wish I could just trust that it isn't all bullshit again.

I have nothing to base my opinions and perceptions on but what the MSM allows me to see.

I'm sure you understand where I am coming from. Please, convince me why I should trust and believe.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:12 AM

bigtree (84,173 posts)

141. questions

. . . are the Iraqi forces that we've spent billions to arm and train unable or unwilling to defend these civilians?

If they're unwilling, why are we arming them?

They've had some success against this relatively smaller number of insurgents.

August 4, 2014 - Iraqi air force comes to the aid of beleaguered Kurds

AUG. 4, 2014 - Maliki, has issued order to the Iraqi air forces to provide air support for the pesh merga against ISIS

What about other Iraqi allies? Aren't they able to help?

Russian Jets and Experts Sent to Iraq to Aid Army

What about Syria? Is U.S. government's opposition to the Syrians keeping them from providing more assistance to the beleaguered Iraqi regime in fighting back ISIS?

Syrian government warplanes have attacked a series of targets in Syria and Iraq in an attempt to weaken an Al-Qaeda splinter group, opposition activists and U.S. officials say.

On Wednesday, airstrikes on Raqqa, a Syrian city of some 500,00 that has been under control of the Islamic State of Iraq and Al-Sham (ISIS) for more than a year, appear to be part of an intensified Syrian government campaign against the militant faction that has become a major fighting force in neighbouring Iraq in recent weeks.

The strikes come on the heels of an apparent Syrian attack on ISIS in Iraq, with U.S. officials saying there are indications that Syria launched airstrikes into western Iraq Tuesday in an attempt to slow the Al-Qaeda-inspired insurgency fighting both the Syrian and Iraqi governments.

ISIS has been fighting along with the rebels opposed to President Bashar Assad’s government and has since moved swiftly across the border into Iraq.

What about Iran? We can't let that happen because, terrorism?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to bigtree (Reply #141)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:28 AM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

144. They Do Not Seem Up To The Work, Sir

Some weeks back when the I.S.I.L. breakout commenced, I said I expected eventually to see the U.S.A.F. providing air support for al'Quds fighters, and my tongue was nowhere near my cheek. If this is contained, in Iraq as a whole, I expect Iran will do a lot of the ground work, one way or another, and without a lot of direct notice of that being paid in our media, or acknowledgement of it made by our government. We are de facto allies with Iran at present, but it serves neither party to this shotgun wedding to call much attention to it.

"Why us? Because we're here, and nobody else.'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Reply #144)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:52 AM

bigtree (84,173 posts)

154. thanks for the answer, Magistrate

. . . I suspect there's a little Cold-War fear being whispered in the President's ear, as well. I note that this escalation began in earnest after it appeared Russia was stepping in . . . providing jets, pilots, and other military aid.

. . . that Iraq's air defenses aren't fully capable is a fair argument, but I question how sincere the U.S. effort has been in supplying them with adequate defenses - or allowing others to supply them. So many of our eyes on the ground there, for quite some time now . . . it would seem that much of our present concern is opportunistic - some of the problem in Northern Iraqi civilian's defense tied to our government's opposition to the Syrians who seem more than capable and willing to assist.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:23 AM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

142. Humanitarian aid is always good. Targeted air strikes is code for killing people. Of course

we will rationalize that the people we kill deserve it, of course except the collateral damage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to rhett o rick (Reply #142)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 03:03 PM

Orsino (37,428 posts)

272. I guess by US standards, this is fairly benign.

We're only going to be bombing a few people this week.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Orsino (Reply #272)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 03:05 PM

rhett o rick (55,981 posts)

273. If I may, "We're only going to be bombing a few [folks] this week." nm

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:26 AM

Cha (289,498 posts)

143. Vid of the President's statement, TM.. and the transcript.. thank you.

Good evening. Today I authorized two operations in Iraq — targeted airstrikes to protect our American personnel, and a humanitarian effort to help save thousands of Iraqi civilians who are trapped on a mountain without food and water and facing almost certain death. Let me explain the actions we’re taking and why.

First, I said in June — as the terrorist group ISIL began an advance across Iraq — that the United States would be prepared to take targeted military action in Iraq if and when we determined that the situation required it. In recent days, these terrorists have continued to move across Iraq, and have neared the city of Erbil, where American diplomats and civilians serve at our consulate and American military personnel advise Iraqi forces.

To stop the advance on Erbil, I’ve directed our military to take targeted strikes against ISIL terrorist convoys should they move toward the city. We intend to stay vigilant, and take action if these terrorist forces threaten our personnel or facilities anywhere in Iraq, including our consulate in Erbil and our embassy in Baghdad. We’re also providing urgent assistance to Iraqi government and Kurdish forces so they can more effectively wage the fight against ISIL.

Second, at the request of the Iraqi government — we’ve begun operations to help save Iraqi civilians stranded on the mountain. As ISIL has marched across Iraq, it has waged a ruthless campaign against innocent Iraqis. And these terrorists have been especially barbaric towards religious minorities, including Christian and Yezidis, a small and ancient religious sect. Countless Iraqis have been displaced. And chilling reports describe ISIL militants rounding up families, conducting mass executions, and enslaving Yezidi women.

In recent days, Yezidi women, men and children from the area of Sinjar have fled for their lives. And thousands — perhaps tens of thousands — are now hiding high up on the mountain, with little but the clothes on their backs. They’re without food, they’re without water. People are starving. And children are dying of thirst. Meanwhile, ISIL forces below have called for the systematic destruction of the entire Yezidi people, which would constitute genocide. So these innocent families are faced with a horrible choice: descend the mountain and be slaughtered, or stay and slowly die of thirst and hunger.

I’ve said before, the United States cannot and should not intervene every time there’s a crisis in the world. So let me be clear about why we must act, and act now. When we face a situation like we do on that mountain — with innocent people facing the prospect of violence on a horrific scale, when we have a mandate to help — in this case, a request from the Iraqi government — and when we have the unique capabilities to help avert a massacre, then I believe the United States of America cannot turn a blind eye. We can act, carefully and responsibly, to prevent a potential act of genocide. That’s what we’re doing on that mountain.

I’ve, therefore, authorized targeted airstrikes, if necessary, to help forces in Iraq as they fight to break the siege of Mount Sinjar and protect the civilians trapped there. Already, American aircraft have begun conducting humanitarian airdrops of food and water to help these desperate men, women and children survive. Earlier this week, one Iraqi in the area cried to the world, “There is no one coming to help.” Well today, America is coming to help. We’re also consulting with other countries — and the United Nations — who have called for action to address this humanitarian crisis.

I know that many of you are rightly concerned about any American military action in Iraq, even limited strikes like these. I understand that. I ran for this office in part to end our war in Iraq and welcome our troops home, and that’s what we’ve done. As Commander-in-Chief, I will not allow the United States to be dragged into fighting another war in Iraq. And so even as we support Iraqis as they take the fight to these terrorists, American combat troops will not be returning to fight in Iraq, because there’s no American military solution to the larger crisis in Iraq. The only lasting solution is reconciliation among Iraqi communities and stronger Iraqi security forces.

However, we can and should support moderate forces who can bring stability to Iraq. So even as we carry out these two missions, we will continue to pursue a broader strategy that empowers Iraqis to confront this crisis. Iraqi leaders need to come together and forge a new government that represents the legitimate interests of all Iraqis, and that can fight back against the threats like ISIL. Iraqis have named a new President, a new Speaker of Parliament, and are seeking consensus on a new Prime Minister. This is the progress that needs to continue in order to reverse the momentum of the terrorists who prey on Iraq’s divisions.

Once Iraq has a new government, the United States will work with it and other countries in the region to provide increased support to deal with this humanitarian crisis and counterterrorism challenge. None of Iraq’s neighbors have an interest in this terrible suffering or instability.

And so we’ll continue to work with our friends and allies to help refugees get the shelter and food and water they so desperately need, and to help Iraqis push back against ISIL. The several hundred American advisors that I ordered to Iraq will continue to assess what more we can do to help train, advise and support Iraqi forces going forward. And just as I consulted Congress on the decisions I made today, we will continue to do so going forward.

My fellow Americans, the world is confronted by many challenges. And while America has never been able to right every wrong, America has made the world a more secure and prosperous place. And our leadership is necessary to underwrite the global security and prosperity that our children and our grandchildren will depend upon. We do so by adhering to a set of core principles. We do whatever is necessary to protect our people. We support our allies when they’re in danger. We lead coalitions of countries to uphold international norms. And we strive to stay true to the fundamental values — the desire to live with basic freedom and dignity — that is common to human beings wherever they are. That’s why people all over the world look to the United States of America to lead. And that’s why we do it.

So let me close by assuring you that there is no decision that I take more seriously than the use of military force. Over the last several years, we have brought the vast majority of our troops home from Iraq and Afghanistan. And I’ve been careful to resist calls to turn time and again to our military, because America has other tools in our arsenal than our military. We can also lead with the power of our diplomacy, our economy, and our ideals.

But when the lives of American citizens are at risk, we will take action. That’s my responsibility as Commander-in-Chief. And when many thousands of innocent civilians are faced with the danger of being wiped out, and we have the capacity to do something about it, we will take action. That is our responsibility as Americans. That’s a hallmark of American leadership. That’s who we are.

So tonight, we give thanks to our men and women in uniform -— especially our brave pilots and crews over Iraq who are protecting our fellow Americans and saving the lives of so many men, women and children that they will never meet. They represent American leadership at its best. As a nation, we should be proud of them, and of our country’s enduring commitment to uphold our own security and the dignity of our fellow human beings.

God bless our Armed Forces, and God bless the United States of America.

TOD

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Cha (Reply #143)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:33 AM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

146. Thank You, Sir: Glad To Have That In The Thread

It was not yet available when I posted, just after the speech finished, and I had to surrender the machine to my grand-sons....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Reply #146)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:37 AM

Cha (289,498 posts)

148. You're welcome but you can call Ms. :)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Cha (Reply #143)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:15 PM

Ash_F (5,861 posts)

254. An entire minority group gets completely shut out of representative government

...no problem. We didn't hear any speeches about that.

Where was the State Department when this was happening? Oh right, they engineered it.

And now they act surprised when people resort to violence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:34 AM

MisterP (23,730 posts)

147. by now it's obvious he's a Situationist performance artist

Last edited Fri Aug 8, 2014, 02:17 PM - Edit history (2)

trying to see how much of Bush's programs he can replicate while still getting the same level of benefit of the doubt that, say Kim Jong-il or Sun Myung Moon or Prem Rawat got (from their respective followers--I hereby apologize to the baying cultists I compared to other baying cultists)

yet we still whimper that "If we knew who He was, we would crawl across America on our hands and knees to rest our heads at His feet"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to MisterP (Reply #147)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:40 AM

Cha (289,498 posts)

150. Bullcrap.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to MisterP (Reply #147)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:53 AM

conservaphobe (1,284 posts)

155. You invalidated your whole post when you compared our President to Kimg Jong-il. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to MisterP (Reply #147)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 06:12 PM

sheshe2 (80,772 posts)

303. What a load!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:40 AM

SunSeeker (50,326 posts)

151. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:26 AM

whatchamacallit (15,558 posts)

164. That's nice

I don't buy anything he says or does anymore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:48 AM

politicman (710 posts)

166. many here act like the U.S is so moral that it needs to intervene when..

the U.S is just as guilty of committing its own genocides over the years.

Because the U.S is such a human country, huh? (sarcasm)

Its funny how everyone jumps in to support action by the U.S to stop genocide, as though the U.S is moral entity and doesn't commit genocide of its own.

The 100,000s of thousands of Iraqi's killed under Bush's 10 year invasion of Iraq doesn't constitute genocide?
The 2 million Vietnamese killed By America in the Vietnam war doesn't constitute genocide?
The thousands of innocents caught up in Obama's drone strikes doesn't constitute a 'small' genocide?

Reading everyone's comments on here one would think that the U.S is such a noble and moral country that it automatically makes it right for the U.S to use its military to stop others committing genocide, EXCEPT when the U.S itself commits genocide who will stop it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to politicman (Reply #166)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 02:02 AM

IronGate (2,186 posts)

And yet here you are, scratching at the door for another dose.

I expect the point where most people reading your last two posts will find it hard not grin is where you proclaim you find me incapable of discussing an issue rationally, before going on to describe me as having 'been tasked with repeating' propaganda, and continuing on from there in a most florid, indeed, a positively purple vein of billingsgate.

After which, of course, you bid me adieu again....

"So which is it? In or out? Don't think I'm going to stand here all day holding this door open."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to politicman (Reply #199)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 06:08 AM

quaker bill (8,211 posts)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to politicman (Reply #166)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 09:08 PM

bahrbearian (13,466 posts)

314. Right on

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to bahrbearian (Reply #314)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 09:17 PM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

315. Or 'Left Off!' Sir, Depending Which Side Of The Mirror One Faces....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Reply #315)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 10:13 PM

bahrbearian (13,466 posts)

317. Wrong again Missy

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to bahrbearian (Reply #317)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 10:46 PM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

320. Your Meaning Is Unclear, Sir

"No turn left un-stoned."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:49 AM

Jamaal510 (10,893 posts)

167. So many crises, so little time.

Again, they can never pay me enough to be a president. O has his hands full between this, Ukraine, Africa, the Central American immigration situation, and the Republicans. No matter what action he takes, he won't please everyone--apparently not even everyone on his side of the aisle. No wonder his hair turned gray!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 02:27 AM

minivan2 (214 posts)

173. Am I the only one not liking the outcome

My reaction to this initially was "Oh my gosh, he's turning into W." I mean doesn't this mean that we're going back into Iraq?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to minivan2 (Reply #173)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 03:08 AM

Cha (289,498 posts)

182. Yeah right.. the corporatemediawhore$ don't know the difference either..

TheObamaDiary.com @TheObamaDiary
Follow
To summarize:

Bush/Cheney invade Iraq for oil.

MSM: USA!! USA!!

PBO intervenes for humanitarian purposes.

MSM: TYYYYYRUNT!1!1!

5:38 PM - 7 Aug 2014 31 Retweets 13 favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/08/07/the-presidents-statement-on-iraq/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Cha (Reply #182)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 03:14 AM

minivan2 (214 posts)

184. Yessir

I watched my local news about it and they almost told me that Obama is like Bush. But after looking at your link, I will never watch the lame stream media ever again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to minivan2 (Reply #184)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 03:23 AM

Cha (289,498 posts)

I was out all day, so I'm just catching up, but I support the president's actions completely.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 04:27 AM

azurnoir (45,850 posts)

194. I agree with a caveat he should be arming the Kurds too

lest someone else does first, at this point they'll take friends where they can get them

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 04:37 AM

Cali_Democrat (30,439 posts)

197. Brilliant OP

Almost like fly paper...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 06:14 AM

get the red out (13,439 posts)

202. I agree

Whole heatedly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 06:16 AM

Douglas Carpenter (20,226 posts)

203. I suppose it is probably the right thing to do given the current realities. Unfortunately we do not

have any crystal balls to look into the future to determine how this will work out. What kind of situation will we find ourselves in a few years down the road? We just don't know. I will withhold any criticism for the time being anyway and hope and pray that it all works out for the best.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Douglas Carpenter (Reply #203)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:07 PM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

234. I Appreciate That, Sir

And make no pretense of certainty nothing will wrong, either in short or long term. But I think our President made a good case for the actions he committed the country, and like you, I am willing to wait and see how things work out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 06:23 AM

NutmegYankee (15,925 posts)

205. So do I.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 06:53 AM

sendero (28,552 posts)

206. Me too...

... as much as I want to get away from Iraq, the USA holds a lot of responsibility for this situation and we are obligated to not just walk away.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 08:50 AM

riqster (13,986 posts)

211. Et moi aussie, mes ami.

to the Prexy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 08:56 AM

Gothmog (136,072 posts)

212. Agreed

The President's actions are necessary

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 09:13 AM

mopinko (68,319 posts)

214. yes it is, sir.

and not an easy decision.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 09:22 AM

Hubert Flottz (37,726 posts)

215. I agree

The GOP say air strikes are useless...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 09:27 AM

bklyncowgirl (7,960 posts)

216. With great reluctance so do I.

ISIS is a scary bunch of fanatics. We can point fingers and complain later.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to bklyncowgirl (Reply #216)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:28 AM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

224. I Appreciate That, Ma'am

Thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 10:16 AM

justaddh2o (69 posts)

217. How are these airstrikes different than...

Humanitarian aid is great. Full stop.

But what is the goal of airstrikes? Are we simply defending Americans located within Kurdish territory? Are we actually attempting to degrade ISIS or IS our whatever the fuck they are calling themselves these days? Do limited airstrikes accomplish either? If not, how much further do we go? And, even giving that IS are genocidal fuckfaces, are we ready for Gulf War 3.0?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Akira Watts (Reply #218)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:16 AM

JEB (4,748 posts)

219. Make a lot of money for the war profiteers.

It's what we do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to JEB (Reply #219)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:26 AM

Akira Watts (53 posts)

223. That, sir, is just cynical. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Akira Watts (Reply #223)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 10:32 PM

JEB (4,748 posts)

318. It has taken me a good long while, but

I'd bet it's another money grubbing scheme rather than some altruistic move to help some goofballs being persecuted by radicals. actully plenty of that going on in the world that we are just fine with.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:25 AM

Fix The Stupid (914 posts)

222. Then enlist and go fight over there...

Chickenhawks everywhere.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Fix The Stupid (Reply #222)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:32 AM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

225. Nothing More Amusing Than Ritual Chants, Sir

Rote noises people convince themselves constitute trenchant argument, but in fact only reveal the person employing them has nothing to say worth hearing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Reply #225)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:50 AM

Fix The Stupid (914 posts)

229. Ok.

Pretty simple.

Stop advocating for war unless you are willing to go fight yourself.

Not hard to understand, pretty sure most folks get it.

Need it further explained?

Imagine how quickly these stupid, futile, imperialistic wars would end if those who cheered for them actually had to fight them...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Fix The Stupid (Reply #229)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 11:56 AM

The Magistrate (93,905 posts)

231. A Rote Noise, Sir, Without The Slightest Point Or Content

And followed by more sacred chants recited by rote, which communicate only that you like to make noise, and do not approve of something, and can imagine nothing more telling as a means to press your dislike than disparagement of persons disagreeing with you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Reply #231)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 02:27 PM

Fix The Stupid (914 posts)

Unlike Dub-yah, who offered as justification for the invasion of Iraq: "Don't fergit, this is th'guy that tried ta kill mah Daddy!"

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 12:17 PM

potone (1,701 posts)

238. Yes, I do too.

Which option do you think is better?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Akira Watts (Reply #249)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 06:07 PM

Historic NY (37,053 posts)

299. Carpet bombing would probably be most effective....

What possible aid to regional stability would it be to topple Assad at this juncture? None, in fact way less than zero that is the context.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 01:47 PM

Iron Man (183 posts)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Sheepshank (Reply #265)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 03:29 PM

Tarheel_Dem (31,144 posts)

279. They don't need no stinkin' links, it's what RT told 'em.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to Sheepshank (Reply #265)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 05:08 PM

dilby (2,273 posts)

294. Pretty much anyone who has money invested in Iraq.

If Iraq gets taken by ISIS they loose all the money they have put in, if America steps in they continue to make money. America does not care if civilians are dying the government only cares if their backers are losing money.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/world/story/2011-12-28/foreign-business-quadruples-iraq-2011/52260544/1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to dilby (Reply #258)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 06:18 PM

Cha (289,498 posts)

305. It has everything to do with helping the people of Iraq.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 03:33 PM

blkmusclmachine (16,149 posts)

281. So, which CEOs are going to make a killing off our newest muder spree in Iraq???

Death = Profit

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Response to The Magistrate (Original post)

Fri Aug 8, 2014, 04:37 PM

kjones (1,053 posts)

287. I see so much so much dissonance in response to recent world happenings

Or maybe I'm just paying more attention now.

My opinion on the matter (based on what I know, which is limited)
is that it is a reasonable response to a difficult situation. The risks
of inaction are pretty clear, and the commitment (and public
pressure) to keep actions limited is there - assuming you believe it.
If you don't, that's a different matter.

Nobody wants a war, and I can understand reticence to make even
minor moves after our habitual forays into the region, but I can't
really understand doing nothing.There are times for action.
I mean, (scale aside) what if we had said "You know, we were just
in Europe for WWI, maybe we should stay out of WWII." I suppose
Japan didn't give us much of a choice, but as I understand it, prior
to PH, we were sitting on inaction.

As you've said several times I've seen, what we've done in the past
shouldn't prevent us from doing good in the future. If people view it
as a way for the US to somehow gain back status or humanitarian
image, well, I don't think they are looking at it with a humanitarian
eye. You don't do right to gain praise or redeem past actions, you
do right because it's right.

Based on what I know, it seems like a case and a time to do right.