Hamas: No Truce Without Israeli Withdrawal, End of Blockade

[Comrade Grumpy]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/07/29/world/meast/mideast-crisis/

Gaza (CNN) -- Hamas made it clear Tuesday that a cease-fire with Israel may be more remote than ever.

On Hamas-run television, Mohammed Deif, chief of the group's military wing, said that "there is no middle ground" regarding a truce until Israel ends its "aggression" and "siege" of Gaza.

"The enemy kills the civilians and we kill the soldiers . ... the enemy sends his soldiers to their death in Gaza," he said. "The Israeli enemy will not have security as long as we don't have security for our people."

[JI7]

1. maybe he should consider preaceful protests like civil rights activists did in the US

because so far whatever he is doing is not working.

[Max power]

2. Hamas is winning world opinion

[Fozzledick]

4. Is that why they want to continue the violence?

[JI7]

5. the Palestinian people are, has nothing to do with Hamas' actions

[Boom Sound 416]

10. Shocker

Can I ask, did you get that name off a hair dryer?

[bigwillq]

13. BWAH

[Max power]

19. Kinda of

Last edited Tue Jul 29, 2014, 07:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Homer Simpson got it off a hair dryer
I took it from him

[Calista241]

25. So what?

World opinion means exactly bupkis.

[Rhinodawg]

46. That's funny because..

Egypt and the rest of the Arab league couldn't care less about Hamas.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. Not exactly. Finally American opinion is realizing Hamas is what it is - a terrorist group hellbent

on war, attacking Israel every chance they get, then using Palestinians (children, women and men) as their protection when retaliation begins.

[840high]

55. World opinion will not

bring back the dead.

[Fozzledick]

3. Hamas commander Mohammad Deif: There will be no cease-fire, victory will be ours

One of the most-wanted terrorists by the IDF, Hamas military commander Mohammad Deif broke years of silence when he resurfaced on Tuesday to declare that, "There will be no ceasefire without [Israel's] lifting of the siege" and stated, "Victory will be ours."

Deif warned that Israel's soldiers face fighters "craving to die," referring to Hamas fighters looking to achieve martyrdom in the fight against Israel.
...
Deif, who is partially paralyzed and wheelchair-bound, is the official head behind Hamas' warfare and al-Qassam brigades. He is held responsible for many terrorist attacks against Israeli civilians.

http://www.jpost.com/Operation-Protective-Edge/Hamas-military-commander-There-will-be-no-ceasefire-victory-will-be-ours-369336

[Archae]

44. This armchair terrorist deserves all the karma he gets.

BUT...

As always, "Hamas can do no wrong..."

[ann---]

6. That's very

good for them. Nothing wrong with those conditions.

[HERVEPA]

8. Yeh, right. Except it will never happen and more of their people will die.

Which they clearly don't give a shit about. Seems like you don't either by your comment. Nice standing up for principle, when you're not the one getting killed.

[Comrade Grumpy]

16. The people of Gaza want their freedom, like anybody else.

You say that will never happen. Why not? Is Israel entitled to keep Gaza in perpetual bondage? No airport. No seaport. No exit. Food supplies curtailed. Medicines curtailed. Stuck in an open air prison.

If YOU give a shit about the people getting killed in Gaza, you might want to address the people actually killing them. Hint: It ain't Hamas.

[HERVEPA]

21. What Israel is entitled to is irrelevant in this discussion.

Israel is not going to give in to the demands and a lot more people will die. Whether you think Israel is right or they are the devil doesn't matter in this context.
Safe to say you're not the one who's going to die for your principles here. The people in Gaza are. And Hamas sure as hell doesn't give a damn. If you can build tunnels, you can build shelters.

[whatchamacallit]

26. Unlike the IDF who clearly give a shit about the lives of the Palestinian People

Sorry, Israel owns every drop of blood they shed.

[HERVEPA]

29. Whether they do or don't the blood is being shed in any case.

And Hamas could not care less. They have an unachievable aim and will be happy to have their people die for it.

[whatchamacallit]

31. Let me see if I have this straight

The continued bloodshed is on the Palestinian leadership if they don't acquiesce to whatever the invading force demands? Wonder if that would have been the responsible action during the American Revolution...

[HERVEPA]

34. Perhaps a course in logic or analytical thinking might be helpful

You have an agenda, I understand.
However your comments are not responsive, and if you woulkd prefer fewer people in Gaza being killed, your comments make no sense. Again, the rockets, missiles, whatever aren't being fired at you, so very brave of you to stand by your principles.

[whatchamacallit]

36. 'I' have an agenda?

Guess it only makes sense that someone determined to absolve the Israelis of their crimes would engage in such projection. The wreckage is indeed twisted...

[HERVEPA]

39. Guess what.

I did not discuss here whether Israel was responsible. I was discussing the chance to save more spilling of the blood of the people of Gaza, which, as I said before, seems to be less important to you than your principles.

[whatchamacallit]

40. If that's your desire maybe you should

implore Israel to back the fuck out instead of blaming the occupied.

[HERVEPA]

45. Yes. I'll dial up Bibi on my private line. He always drops everything to take my calls.

He highly values my counsel.

Anyhow, your comments are continuously unresponsive, so, ... genug.

[whatchamacallit]

47. And your comments

betray a blind bias. Adieu.

[former9thward]

9. Says someone who is safely behind a computer screen.

Typing away...

[HERVEPA]

22. Exactly

He's OK with them dying for his principles.

[TheKentuckian]

11. And consequently nothing wrong with a response that destroys the capacity for further attacks

and captures or kills command and control for them.

[Comrade Grumpy]

18. That worked so well for Israel before. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

52. Very arguably, the effectiveness of attacks has been greatly diminished over the years.

Considerably less Israeli loss of life and damage taken with a more hard line response. How do you think these people got elected and maintain power, hard and immediate real world results.

Do you honestly believe a population under nearly constant, real and direct assault is going to measure working in ways that don't actually translate to less overall danger like getting kidnapped and randomly blown up but rather the approval ratings of people under no such threat and respond to much less persistent and personal threats with far, far less restraint?

[Spazito]

7. I just watched an interview with an Israeli official and a PLO representative and...

the Israeli official brought back memories of Baghdad Bob and with as much 'credibility'. The PLO representative presented some very substantive arguments while the Israeli official simply lied, lied and lied some more.

The Israeli government's credibility is toast, burnt toast, imo.

[oberliner]

12. Where did you watch that?

And who were the officials in question if you recall?

[Spazito]

20. On CBC, Canadian Broadcasting Corporation....

The officials were Mustafa Barghoti from the PNI, Palestinian National Initiatives and Yigal Palmor, spokesperson for the Israeli Minister of Foreign Affairs.

[oberliner]

23. Makes sense

Mustafa Barghoti is a very impressive figure. Yigal Palmor, not so much. Israel manages to pick the worst possible spokespeople on a regular basis.

[Aerows]

41. There is a lot going on here

Much more than "optics".

[oberliner]

50. Indeed there is

But Barghouti comes across much more effectively than any of the various Hamas spokespeople I've heard from. Whereas on the Israeli side, there is a lot of foot in mouth type situations.

[Aerows]

51. When you have a lot of foot in mouth type situations

It could possibly be that your message isn't the problem, it's your actions. It reminds me of teabagger Republicans. Always "putting their foot in their mouth" and not "delivering an effective message" without realizing the message isn't the problem - it's the actions that go along with the message, no matter how cleverly formed it might be.

[BlueCheese]

15. So, no peace ever then. Great.

[Comrade Grumpy]

17. Do you assume Israel has the right to impose a siege on Gaza forever?

There will be peace when Israel chooses to make peace. A just peace. I don't think Israel is capable of it

[oberliner]

24. Does Gaza have a border with Egypt?

Pretty sure it does.

[Calista241]

27. Israel can't prevent whatever they want from moving through their borders.

Just like every other country.

[BlueCheese]

28. No, of course I don't think Israel has that right.

But lasting peace, or even baby steps towards peace, will only happen after the fighting is over and negotiations take place during a time of calm. If Hamas's policy is to keep fighting until there's peace, or a lifting of the blockade, then there will never be peace.

I also disagree that peace right now is within either side's unilateral ability. Hamas is still sworn to Israel's destruction, and I'm not convinced that the Likud government believes in a two-state solution at the moment. It won't happen until both sides can be convinced of the other side's good will and good faith, and that is obviously sorely lacking right now.

[Johnyawl]

33. The Likud government...

... has made it clear through their actions that they DO NOT believe that a two state solution is viable, unless Israel is responsible for the security of BOTH states. (internal and external security, i.e., Israel is the Army and police force of the Palestinian state). Which means you don't really have two states. Which means you don't have a solution.

"It won't happen until both sides can be convinced of the other side's good will and good faith"
That will take a miracle of biblical proportions.

[oberliner]

54. Thankfully, there are elections

And this coalition is a fragile one (as most recent ones have been).

If Hamas decided to proclaim that it was renouncing terrorism forever and would be willing to recognize Israel on the 1967 borders, then I think there would be a very different reality with respect to the two state solution.

Given what Israel is doing in Gaza right now, however, the chances of such a thing happening are, naturally, zero.

The sad fact is, there is no solution that the more extreme forces on both the Israeli and Palestinian side would be amenable. There is literally no way to reconcile what they both want.

It's very sad to think about how close Clinton was to brokering an agreement in the days before Rabin was killed (and ever afterwards).

[Johnyawl]

56. I don't share your optimism.

"If Hamas decided to proclaim that it was renouncing terrorism forever and would be willing to recognize Israel on the 1967 borders"

Would Israel believe anything Hamas says at this point?


"there is no solution that the more extreme forces on both the Israeli and Palestinian side would be amenable."

And unfortunately it's not just Israelis and Palestinians involved in this. The religious fanatics in Iran and Saudi Arabia will not accept any agreement that does not put Jerusalem back under Islamic control. And they will create and use people like Hezbollah and Hamas to sabotage any agreement, and keep war going, no matter how brutal the Israelis are and how much the Palestinians suffer. And the Israelis have their own extremists, mostly settler/religious fanatics who believe that "Judea and Samaria" are part of biblical/historical Israel and they mean to have it even if they have to assassinate their own Prime Minister.

There is no solution. The world will have a Jewish state and a Palestinian diaspora until the economic and military power of the US declines to the point we can neither afford Israel or protect her. Then the world will have a Palestinian state and a new Jewish diaspora. Time and demographics are not on Israels side. And while most rational Israelis know this, it is unfortunately the extremists on both sides fanning the flames of hate and war.

[whatchamacallit]

32. Shouldn't it have been signed

Israel, Allies, and Trolls?

[Tetris_Iguana]

35. Just because you agree with eliminating Hamas

Doesn't make you a troll.

Unless you're for Hamas????

[whatchamacallit]

37. They will simply be replaced by another reviled entity

Reviled for expecting the Israelis to stop decimating the Palestinians.

[Tetris_Iguana]

38. Maybe

But maybe not.

[Archae]

49. What should Israel do with the Palestinians?

They don't come from Palestine, they emigrated to Palestine from Syria.

But Syria refuses to let them come back.
After the Jordan fiasco, can you blame Syria?

And don't say "Israel should give all the land back they won in the wars."
That makes as much sense as giving all the land back to Native Americans that white people now live on.

Arab countries in that area have plenty of land for the Palestinians to settle in.
But those Arabs won't let the Palestinians to settle there.

[Chathamization]

42. "The enemy kills the civilians and we kill the soldiers" Hmm...actually pretty accurate when you

look at the kill counts for both sides. Hamas has killed far more soldiers than civilians, Israel has killed far more civilians than soldiers. Of course, the response you get is that Israel is to thank for Hamas not killing more civilians and Hamas is to blame for Israel killing so many civilians. Eh eh eh...I wonder if anyone is buying it.

[2banon]

43. Reasonable conditions any self respecting person/community/nation would demand and expect

to be honored.

[Rhinodawg]

48. Not while they fired 2400 missiles .

They want respect, they have to give respect.

[JEB]

57. 3 BILLION US dollars in military aid.

Lots of blame to spread around. Shameful and sickening.