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Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:16 PM

See the really big smiles of Campbell Brown and Plaintiffs as they sue teachers for due process.

They absolutely look radiant, so happy. They are filing a suit against teachers who have due process rights. They are well-funded, ready to begin their fight against public schools teachers.
Campbell's husband, Dan Senor, is not pictured. However he is joining his wife in her fight against public education.

He was a major architect of the Iraq invasion, but since he is on the board of Michelle Rhee's group Students First he is in a position to help in the anti-union anti-teacher fight.

Teacher Tenure Fight Comes to New York City


Plaintiffs backed by Campbell Brown file suit to overturn teacher tenure laws. (WNYC)

I doubt that cheering little girl has understanding of this situation.

Seven parents filed a lawsuit with New York State Supreme Court on Monday seeking to overturn teacher tenure laws that they said prevent their children from receiving a "sound basic education" that is guaranteed by New York State’s constitution.

“Having bad teachers who can’t be removed, having a rating system which makes a mockery of a legitimate rating system for teachers, these are all systematic deprivations of the right to a sound education," said attorney Jay Lefkowitz. His firm, Kirkland and Ellis, is working pro bono for a new group called the Partnership for Educational Justice founded by former TV anchor Campbell Brown. They note that more than 90 percent of the state's teachers were rated effective or highly effective in 2012 but only 31 percent of state students were proficient on their math and reading tests in 2013.

The suit follows on the heels of the controversial Vergara ruling in California against tenure protections in June. Of the seven plaintiffs named in the suit, five are from New York City and two from Rochester.

Bronx resident Angeles Barragan said her daughter fell behind due to an incompetent teacher who didn’t assign homework and didn’t help her child learn to read. Now Natalie is repeating second grade at Kings College School P.S. 94.


Notice no blame is assigned to the student, no blame to the parent. Only the teacher.

This is very similar to the overturning of teacher due process rights in California recently. The parents and students stand publicly blaming only the teacher.

I find myself wondering to myself, but never out loud of course....were rewards given to these parents for their efforts? And the students who were paraded in public...did they really understand the implications of what they were doing?

Just like the California ruling, the plaintiffs are pictured publicly. Mainly students. Do they really understand?

Michelle Rhee is smiling.


Attorneys Theodore Boutrous, far right, and Marcellus McRae, second from right , are joined by nine California public school students who sued the state to abolish its laws on teacher tenure, seniority and other protections, during a news conference in January.

The union said:

"This suit is not pro-student. It is fundamentally anti-public education, scapegoating teachers for problems originating in underfunding, poverty, and economic inequality," California Federation of Teachers President Joshua Pechthalt said.

The CTA described Students Matter as a group created by Silicon Valley multimillionaire David Welch and a private public relations firm and said the group is supported by former Washington, D.C., schools chancellor "Michelle Rhee and Students First, Parent Revolution Executive Director Ben Austin, billionaire and school privatizer Eli Broad, former lawmaker Gloria Romero, and other corporate education reformers with an interest in privatizing public education and attacking teachers' unions."


This is basically a sad time in America's history of public education. It is sort of like the beginning of the end for a proud tradition.

Instead of giving schools needed resources, the policy of this administration is taking those resources, and lot of money....from public schools. They are giving it to private companies who want to form charter schools that are not regulated financially or educationally.



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Reply See the really big smiles of Campbell Brown and Plaintiffs as they sue teachers for due process. (Original post)
madfloridian Jul 2014 OP
msongs Jul 2014 #1
Guy Whitey Corngood Jul 2014 #2
madfloridian Jul 2014 #3
hamsterjill Jul 2014 #45
ann--- Jul 2014 #4
madfloridian Jul 2014 #6
spanone Jul 2014 #5
Jakes Progress Jul 2014 #73
TDale313 Jul 2014 #7
deurbano Jul 2014 #16
madfloridian Jul 2014 #24
pa28 Aug 2014 #90
TDale313 Aug 2014 #94
phylny Jul 2014 #8
madfloridian Jul 2014 #10
ReRe Jul 2014 #9
madfloridian Jul 2014 #11
ReRe Jul 2014 #13
usafvet65 Jul 2014 #62
ReRe Jul 2014 #68
emsimon33 Jul 2014 #12
madfloridian Jul 2014 #14
Smarmie Doofus Jul 2014 #23
stillwaiting Jul 2014 #32
LoisB Jul 2014 #15
madfloridian Jul 2014 #17
Notafraidtoo Jul 2014 #18
Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #19
SheilaT Jul 2014 #20
madfloridian Jul 2014 #43
Dark n Stormy Knight Jul 2014 #21
msanthrope Jul 2014 #22
WinkyDink Jul 2014 #27
JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #28
msanthrope Jul 2014 #31
joshcryer Jul 2014 #67
WinkyDink Jul 2014 #74
TBF Aug 2014 #84
joshcryer Aug 2014 #85
TBF Aug 2014 #86
joshcryer Aug 2014 #87
TBF Aug 2014 #88
joshcryer Aug 2014 #89
TBF Aug 2014 #92
joshcryer Aug 2014 #93
Brickbat Jul 2014 #25
Smarmie Doofus Jul 2014 #29
madfloridian Jul 2014 #39
Smarmie Doofus Jul 2014 #55
madfloridian Jul 2014 #57
joeglow3 Jul 2014 #77
madfloridian Jul 2014 #81
joeglow3 Jul 2014 #82
WinkyDink Jul 2014 #26
Ratty Jul 2014 #35
WinkyDink Jul 2014 #75
historylovr Jul 2014 #30
madfloridian Jul 2014 #40
sabrina 1 Jul 2014 #33
JEB Jul 2014 #34
TBF Aug 2014 #95
City Lights Jul 2014 #36
geardaddy Jul 2014 #37
navarth Jul 2014 #38
ymetca Jul 2014 #41
madfloridian Jul 2014 #42
Starry Messenger Jul 2014 #44
Sienna86 Jul 2014 #46
madfloridian Jul 2014 #48
blackspade Jul 2014 #49
MyOwnPeace Jul 2014 #52
Jakes Progress Jul 2014 #69
Tatiana Jul 2014 #78
DhhD Jul 2014 #58
Doctor_J Jul 2014 #66
blackspade Jul 2014 #47
madfloridian Jul 2014 #50
Enthusiast Jul 2014 #51
ancianita Jul 2014 #53
daleanime Jul 2014 #54
Lifelong Protester Jul 2014 #56
Jakes Progress Jul 2014 #59
SoCalDem Jul 2014 #60
madfloridian Jul 2014 #63
H2O Man Jul 2014 #61
madfloridian Jul 2014 #64
Doctor_J Jul 2014 #65
Octafish Jul 2014 #70
Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #71
AdHocSolver Jul 2014 #72
joeglow3 Jul 2014 #76
madfloridian Jul 2014 #79
leftstreet Jul 2014 #80
Mc Mike Aug 2014 #83
BuelahWitch Aug 2014 #91

Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:20 PM

1. race to the top nt

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:20 PM

2. K&R. nt

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:23 PM

3. Actually Campbell's smile is more like a smirk.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 02:34 PM

45. I'm not always this shallow.

But it's her SMILE that drives me nuts!! When she anchored on CNN, it was as if her mouth didn't work right. Her top lip seems to get stuck when she's talking.

Okay, petty, I know. But I feel better having shared.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:24 PM

4. Tenure doesn't prevent

 

teachers from being reprimanded or even dismissed for wrong actions or not passing evaluations.

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Response to ann--- (Reply #4)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:27 PM

6. Tenure is simply due process rights.

But the reformers hate for us to say it that way. The other day some were griping about it on their twitter sites. They like to control the language.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:26 PM

5. K&r... thank you for keeping DU informed of the plight of teachers.

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Response to spanone (Reply #5)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 07:32 PM

73. +100

Although it's as much the plight of children as much as teachers.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:41 PM

7. It just infuriates me...

The pride these pos's take in attacking teachers and other public sector union members. Yes, how very fuckin' brave.

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:32 AM

16. My sentiments exactly.

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #7)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:19 AM

24. They do take pride in these attacks on teachers.

It's like Arne's policies of blaming only the teacher gives them an open door for this onslaught.

And they have the money and power and media....teachers don't have that.

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Response to TDale313 (Reply #7)

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 06:50 PM

90. She won't say who is funding the effort.

So I'll just assume it's the very same people who want to get their hands on nearly a trillion a year in public education funding and put it in their own pockets.

Gates, Walton, Annenberg, just to name a few.

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Response to pa28 (Reply #90)

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 09:21 PM

94. I suspect you're right. n/t

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:41 PM

8. I am a product of New York State schools.

Everything I've accomplished to date can be traced back the the magnificent teachers I had from K-12 (and beyond, of course).

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Response to phylny (Reply #8)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:56 PM

10. NY has always had a reputation for good schools...until the reformers came along.

And now no schools are spared.

Nice words about teachers. Thanks.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Mon Jul 28, 2014, 11:50 PM

9. K&R

I'll tell you what Campbell Brown's smile is all about... she's thinking about all that money & kickbacks she and her luvvy-dubby-hubby are going to rake in for the rest of their lives off the backs of those unknowing plaintiffs. Thanks for letting us know..

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Response to ReRe (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 12:08 AM

11. Using parents and kids like that....really causes more disrespect of teachers.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #11)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 12:15 AM

13. That's right...

... they are being used. I swear, mf, it seems like I woke up in Hell instead of America.

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Response to ReRe (Reply #9)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 07:52 PM

62. Her and her husband are both useless….

POS.

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Response to usafvet65 (Reply #62)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:42 PM

68. Right!

POS x 2

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 12:10 AM

12. How do they expect to get & keep good teachers?

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Response to emsimon33 (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 12:17 AM

14. They just want cheaper more temporary teachers.

TFA and other teacher recruiting groups are waiting to move in.

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Response to emsimon33 (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 07:40 AM

23. I'll be damned if I know.

 

Good question to ask Obama, et al.

Not that they care. Public schools are for the little people. So it's all... if you'll excuse the term.... *academic*.

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Response to emsimon33 (Reply #12)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 12:14 PM

32. They don't want good teachers. They want robots to "teach" children how to obey. nt

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:28 AM

15. Wonder how they found those parents. Wonder how much time the parents spent

with their children helping them learn. You can't teach your children nothing from age 0-5 then send them to school and expect the teacher to miraculously fill their heads.

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Response to LoisB (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:37 AM

17. You are right. And parading them to the public lke that is not healthy for the kids.

I can not help but wonder if there is not some kind of compensation involved from somewhere...but I shouldn't say that out loud.

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Response to LoisB (Reply #15)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:40 AM

18. You hit the nail right on the head.

If a student does poorly in school, 9/10 it is lack of parental involvement in their children's education. The reason so many k-12 private schools do well is the parents are involved,they have skin in the game and are protecting their investment. If parents would simply work with their children we wouldn't have much of an education problem in this country.

Uninvolved parents are blaming others for their failures and it is sickening.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:58 AM

19. "bad teachers who can’t be removed" is a RW myth.

 

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 02:29 AM

20. Children learn at different rates, on different timetables.

 

One thing I learned as a parent is that a fundamental flaw in our education system is the expectation that children learn in a lock-step system. No matter what the cut-off date is for starting kindergarten or first grade, the oldest child will be 364 days older than the youngest child (assuming no one has been held back -- a huge peeve of mine-- and no one is starting early). Even assuming all children are average, that's a huge difference at 4, 5, or 6.

We need schools with more flexibility, with smaller classrooms, with teachers who are empowered to work appropriately with the children. And parents need to take a lot of responsibility also.

I often tell new parents that they need to think seriously about home-schooling their children. Not because home-schooling is necessarily a good idea for them, but by thinking about it seriously they will really think about what their children need, and what kind of teaching and so on they need.

I don't say that to undermine our teachers, but to support them. I thought quite seriously about home-schooling, but decided against it for many reasons. I just wasn't the right person to teach my kids certain basics, like reading. But I did wind up doing a lot of supplemental things on my own.

I would be a truly terrible classroom teacher. I'd be the kind the horror stories are all about. And so I really respect what teacher do, because I couldn't begin to do it.

But schools don't exist in a vacuum. They exist within the context of the society around them.

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Response to SheilaT (Reply #20)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:59 PM

43. The new reforms as much as force teachers to teach kids in "lock-step".

Good teachers know better.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 06:13 AM

21. The education reform movement is all about privatization greed.

His appointment of Arne Duncan and support for this movement by President Obama disappoints me immensely.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 07:40 AM

22. Can you tell me which minority Plaintiff you think does not "understand" what they've done?

 

You wrote:



Notice no blame is assigned to the student, no blame to the parent. Only the teacher.

This is very similar to the overturning of teacher due process rights in California recently. The parents and students stand publicly blaming only the teacher.

I find myself wondering to myself, but never out loud of course....were rewards given to these parents for their efforts? And the students who were paraded in public...did they really understand the implications of what they were doing?

Just like the California ruling, the plaintiffs are pictured publicly. Mainly students. Do they really understand?



Madfloridian, I think you go beyond the pale in implying that ANY of the Plaintiffs lack understanding, or were in any way paid to file. That you write "but never out loud, of course" indicates awareness of the insult in what you are suggesting.

You and I and some African American forum posters on this board have previously discussed racial issues related to your posts. You have been invited to participate in the AA forum more than once to discuss these issues. I think it's time that we do. Will you join me in the AA forum to discuss which Plaintiff you think does not understand what they did?

To facilitate this discussion, I'm going to post the names of the Plaintiffs:

John Keoni Wright.
Kaylah and Kyler Wright
Ginet Borrero
Raymond Diaz, Jr.
Tauana Goins
Tanai Goins
Nina Doster
Patience and King McFarlane
Carla Williams
Jada Williams
Mona Pradia
Adia-Jendayi Pradia
Angeles Barragan
Natalie Mendoza

OF COURSE, you must have read the Complaint, and the details of their stories. I would like you to join me in the AA forum and explain which one of these Plaintiffs you think does not understand what they have done. That way, your thread can remain on point, and this separate issue can be addressed.

Thank you.

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #22)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:26 AM

27. Oh, the Plaintiffs might very well "understand." But what they "understand" IS R-W PROPAGANDA.

 

The Right-Wing Fascists are taking advantage of and using the language of Civil Rights, I'm sure, all the while perverting it.

Does anyone REALLY, SERIOUSLY THINK THAT THE RIGHT WANTS TO ENABLE POOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS OR LATINOS TO AFFORD PRIVATE SCHOOLS??!!

YOU ARE CA-RAZY.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #27)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:52 AM

28. The Koch brothers recently made

A large donation to the United Negro College Fund.

Once again - I type that - and then throw up in my mouth.

That said - nope - they aren't even remotely interested in poor latinos.


It's middle class black children, teens, and young adults (like the twins mentioned in this case) that they are after.


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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #27)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:39 AM

31. We have a fantastic thread on this in the AA group...why not join us??? nt

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #27)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 08:21 PM

67. Well, we know the fascists like populism.

Just from the right wing side of things. So this is unsurprising.

However, unlike other right wing ventures, the right wing isn't leading this battle, it's the minorities who are treated unfairly (and who have had their names dragged through the mud over this issue).

The ruling at least in CA is absolutely fair as CA teachers have serious power once they get tenure and it costs hundreds of thousands to fire underperforming teachers.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #67)

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 09:55 AM

74. Former teacher here. No agreement from me.

 

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #67)

Fri Aug 1, 2014, 04:37 PM

84. Now we're union-bashing on DU? Really? nt

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Response to TBF (Reply #84)

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 04:20 PM

85. You supported SOPA/PIPA, really?

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #85)

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 04:32 PM

86. Where's your cite for that?

The evidence for my assertion is the post I replied to.

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Response to TBF (Reply #86)

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 04:34 PM

87. Exactly.

Your assertion is a stupid straw man. Hollywood unions supported SOPA/PIPA. Being critical of SOPA/PIPA doesn't mean you're a "union basher."

Likewise being critical of CA's racist tenure laws doesn't mean I'm a "union basher."

Unless you did in fact support SOPA/PIPA your assertion is bullshit, and you know it.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #87)

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 06:30 PM

88. CA's racist tenure laws??

Care to elaborate?

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Response to TBF (Reply #88)

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 06:42 PM

89. Read the damn decision:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1193670/tenative-vergara-decision.pdf

Everything rebuffing the decision is an attack on the students, which as msanthrope pointed out, is bullshit on its face (calling the Brown appellates union-busters). I'll note not one "socialist populist" has dared go to the AA forum to answer these BS racist allegations.

There is a serious structural problem where less competent teachers are being put in schools which have mostly minorities and who can't be fired. It's only 2%, but the so called knee-jerk "union sympathizers" are trying to trash some kids who clearly have been given the short end of the stick, rather than accept that there is a problem. Who cares if it's a small problem. There's a problem. Accept it. And stop throwing egalitarianism under the bus for the sake of some populist drivel.

I'm not a union basher and you really insult me by daring to go there just because I point out there's a problem.

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Response to joshcryer (Reply #89)

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 07:29 PM

92. Why must someone go to the AA forum to discuss a topic -

that sounds like BS right there. I've found that msanthrope and I agree on little when it comes to the issues so I'll pass on that invitation.

From what I read in the decision the less competent teachers can be fired but the schools choose not to go through the process. When you are dealing with the desire to replace senior teachers with junior level you need to be able to prove your case. There needs to be a comprehensive process otherwise senior teachers are going to just be tossed out whenever the schools get tired of paying their salaries.

Of course that is what Arne Duncan has been after all along and I wouldn't be surprised to see many competent teachers replaced with proctors and "common core" via video in the coming decades if this nonsense continues. Rich people don't want to pay for education for the masses. They aren't at the point where they can do it yet because the teachers unions are still strong. But chip away at them via lawsuits like this, make them weaker, and eventually you'll accomplish the goal of weaker unions. And then heaven help minority children who need an education because there will be no one competent remaining to teach them.

I'd rather take the chance of insulting a few people than allow that to happen to our educational system.

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Response to TBF (Reply #92)

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 07:35 PM

93. The proposal is simple, move it to 4 years.

Really, it's that simple. Studies show that that extra year for tenure allows the cruft to be taken out. The pass on the invite is simple, people want to take the "chance of insulting a few people" than actually discuss the issues.

I'm personally not happy with the institutionalized educational model, myself. But I don't see Common Core getting rid of it by any means and I don't see it being a threat to teachers. In fact, the new standards should allow teachers to have even more of a monopoly on the "alternate learning methods" since parents are reluctant to adopt them (and that's the main reason parents don't like Common Core, it brings in new standards that are alien to them).

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:23 AM

25. Union or tenure rules do not prevent bad employees from being fired. They prevent managers from

playing favorites. Tenure rules are bargained, which means both sides agree to them. In every situation I've seen where an employee "can't be fired" because of union/tenure rules, it's actually been a case of management being unwilling to go through the steps necessary to fire the employee -- the progressive discipline and the necessary documentation, none of which was arduous.

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Response to Brickbat (Reply #25)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:00 AM

29. It often takes a long time for them to concoct a case where there is none. To wit:

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11248346

Two years.... in this particular case.

Now: hows' about an "investigation into the investigation."

Nah... they're too busy.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #29)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:35 PM

39. I just read about that case.

A terrible thing. He has been treated horribly.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #39)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 04:28 PM

55. Silver lining: his website is a *fantastic* resource....

 

... for teachers and others battling corrupt and hostile systems around the country:

http://protectportelos.org

He *was* treated horribly, you are right. They counted on wearing him out w. the two year confinement.

It would have worked on most people... esp people my age.

But he's young, hard-headed (?) and really, really smart.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #55)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 05:16 PM

57. So he was actually being punished for being a financial whistleblower.

He questioned authority. What a shame.

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Response to Smarmie Doofus (Reply #29)

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 10:12 AM

77. So, they will spend years concocting a case, but not weeks on a legitimate case?

 

Seems kind of contradictory.

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #77)

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 12:43 PM

81. Yes, it happens that way.

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Response to madfloridian (Reply #81)

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 02:12 PM

82. Sorry, but I don't buy it

 

Yes, there are some a holes who made it into positions of leadership. However, from a statistical standpoint, this does not make sense.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:24 AM

26. "bad teachers who can’t be removed...." IS A TOTAL LIE. Administrators need to do their jobs, not

 

just collect their exorbitant paychecks.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #26)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 12:40 PM

35. I've been surprised at the anti-teacher rhetoric here on DU

I guess I should be beyond surprise by now. How the right has demonized teachers so they can privatize education (and force students to pray and teach kids creationism as a bonus) is despicable. One of my relatives is an elementary school teacher and what she has had to endure before she was finally laid off was horrible. The yearly pink slips. School administrators who are NOT on your side. The teachers unions aren't always on your side either. Lack of supplies unless you buy them with your own money. Why would anybody choose to join this "noble profession" now days is beyond me.

And yet there are people here who carp about their pensions, their huge paychecks, how schools are filled with incompetent teachers who can't be fired.

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Response to Ratty (Reply #35)

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 09:57 AM

75. Thank you!

 

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 10:21 AM

30. Kick

There's probably no way to push back against their agenda, is there. They have the funds and the media and parents willing to parade their kids for them. Makes me sick.

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Response to historylovr (Reply #30)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:36 PM

40. I'm afraid you are right.

Public schools and teachers simply do not have the resources to fight back.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 12:20 PM

33. What a despicable woman she is. Not to mention her husband. It should not be a surprise that these

two would oppose education for the masses. This has been a longterm goal of the far right, to destroy the Public School Education System.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 12:28 PM

34. The hounds of privatization can smell the money.

 

Blinded by "free market" ideology they are more than willing to screw students, teachers and the Public system that once lifted the USA's standing in the world. $$$$$$$$.

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Response to JEB (Reply #34)

Sun Aug 3, 2014, 09:33 AM

95. I'm convinced they won't stop until every union is gone

and workers everywhere are making about $2/hr. I do think it is an admirable goal to tear down borders and bring up the standard of living in other places. But the way it is being done is by taking jobs here and shipping them overseas or lowering the wages by hiring new graduates to replace experienced workers. In this way they effectively standardize wages (at a low rate I might add) everywhere. There is no way the global 1% is going to give up their standard of living while they busily instill their vision. And that is why we need to point out what they are doing and fight them every step of the way.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 12:50 PM

36. That power couple makes me sick.

A big "FU" to both of them.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:07 PM

37. K and R

- From a product of a public school education.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:29 PM

38. "Notice no blame is assigned to the student, no blame to the parent. Only the teacher."

Kinda funny how that works.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:44 PM

41. First they consolidated schools

into mega-middle and mega-high schools.

Then they added legions of administrators to handle the load.
Then they demanded teachers try to manage 30, 40, 50 kids per class.
Then they added metal detectors and drug-sniffing dogs.

My kids' middle school looks like a prison, and behaves like one too.
The objective is not education, but compliance.

And after all that, well it's the teacher's fault the whole thing doesn't work.

"In any system sufficiently complex, chaos increases exponentially".

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Response to ymetca (Reply #41)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 01:46 PM

42. ......



Exactly.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 02:18 PM

44. k&r

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 02:42 PM

46. There are teachers who are not effective teachers

When a school district fails to mentor them or at last resort remove them, the students suffer. I've seen it first hand. Our district's response when asked about these teachers says it is simply impossible to remove them because of the union.

What does a parent do?

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Response to Sienna86 (Reply #46)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 03:01 PM

48. Then your district is shirking its responsiblity..they are not telling you the truth.

Those are anti-union tactics, and they are lying. Teachers can be fired for just cause everywhere. And they should be.

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Response to Sienna86 (Reply #46)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 03:02 PM

49. And the district would be lying.

To remove a 'bad teacher' there has to be a paper trail demonstrating their 'badness.'
If there is not one, that means that either there is no cause to remove them of the administrators at the school are incompetent.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #49)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 04:21 PM

52. Ouch! Ouch! Ouch!

I was both - a teacher for 24 years and an administrator for 11. I've seen both sides of it and in this thread I'm on the "bad" side either way!
As an administrator I WAS doing my job - I tried to get rid of a teacher that NEVER should have been hired (out of 14 candidates the interview committee rated her #12). But, she was hired.
I had a full and complete paper trail to not grant her tenure - she needed 1 more "poor" evaluation and she was gone.
Well, she was gone - assigned to another building and a different administrator.
And, guess what - she never got another "unsatisfactory" evaluation!
And, yes, she did get tenure.




Oh, did I mention that her Dad was on the school board?

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Response to MyOwnPeace (Reply #52)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 11:12 PM

69. A one-off doesn't make the republicans right.

I was in the classroom for 20 years before becoming a teacher trainer. Competent administrators either got rid of bad teachers or fixed them. That was my job when I left the classroom.

Was that the only teacher that you tried to document and they stayed? Notice that the corruption you describe comes from the school board and administration - not the fault of teacher unions or tenure. i will give you benefit of the doubt that you were only fixating on a single irritating part of your career. But your "example" is only the kind of fodder that neo-cons love.

Abolishing tenure. Ending unions. None of that would have helped in the scenario you describe. I'm sorry that you had that experience, but don't trot it out whenever there is talk of it being impossible to fire teachers. It is a straw man to this issue and only muddies the water, while serving as more "evidence" for big corp ed.

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Response to MyOwnPeace (Reply #52)

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 10:29 AM

78. I don't doubt you.

But, the fault does not lie with due process. The following administrator had a duty, if this teacher was substandard, to evaluate her accordingly. That person did not follow through. It also appears as though there was some corruption involved at the very top. Again, this is not due to the teacher's union or due process. This is people not following through with their responsibilities to evaluate fairly and honestly.

That teacher didn't hire herself. Someone made the decision (again, an administrator) to give someone who was not qualified the position. Let's place the blame where it really belongs.

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Response to blackspade (Reply #49)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 05:21 PM

58. A teacher has the right to form a paper trail documentation on the student (and parent). The

administrator should be in on this. It should be a team situation. So if only the teacher is being let go, then there has to be documentation of the teacher abusing the help of the administration. In other words, a teacher is being scapegoated, unless the teacher was fired by the administration, before a law suit was accepted by a judge. This is my opinion.

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Response to Sienna86 (Reply #46)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 08:13 PM

66. Tell the district to stop lying

 

Join your school board and fire the administrators who are incompetent at their jobs and lying to cover up their incompetence.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 02:50 PM

47. Campbell Brown, Rhee, Welch, and the rest of these assholes are no better than Pinkerton thugs

This is court sponsored union busting.

This is an unbelievable statement to me and I have no idea why any competent reporter (or judge) can't see what a bald face lie it is:
“Having bad teachers who can’t be removed, having a rating system which makes a mockery of a legitimate rating system for teachers, these are all systematic deprivations of the right to a sound education," said attorney Jay Lefkowitz. His firm, Kirkland and Ellis, is working pro bono for a new group called the Partnership for Educational Justice founded by former TV anchor Campbell Brown. They note that more than 90 percent of the state's teachers were rated effective or highly effective in 2012 but only 31 percent of state students were proficient on their math and reading tests in 2013.


First off, what is a 'bad' teacher? And how is it that 'bad' teachers can't be 'removed?'
How is the current system a 'mockery of a legitimate rating system?'
And how do these two things alone deprive children of the right to a sound education?

The last sentence underscores the bullshit nature of this suit; 90% of teachers may be effective and still have children that fail or are only 31% proficient for a whole host of reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with teaching. Among other things I would suggest that poverty, absent parents, overworked parents, dubious testing, stupid teaching standards crafted by lobbyists, are all much more relevant to how students 'preform' in schools.

Suits like these provide air cover for the ground game that seeks to suck public money into the coffers of corporations and the 1%.


How about this for a suggestion: Administrators from the school level to the head of a district be held liable for the test scores of students. I mean if it is a systemic problem, perhaps it is the administration of the schools that are at fault.
Who did they commission for the testing? Did they choose the correct textbooks? Were the text books up to date? What about violence? Are administrators accountable for violence in the schools?

See, if this is a 'systemic' problem perhaps a look at the system is in order, not just bullshit scapegoating.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 03:11 PM

50. Follow her twitter feed. Her attitude toward public school teachers shows.

https://twitter.com/campbell_brown

And remember these anti-teacher lawsuits are usually done pro-bono by major law firms.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 03:53 PM

51. Thank you, madfloridian.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 04:21 PM

53. I've reached the point of saying that parents should let the 'free market' school their kids.

If they're paying attention -- which isn't likely -- they'll learn the hard way some free market, perverse incentive lessons when it comes to privatized schools and teaching force:

1. That everything has a cost.

2. You get what you pay for.

3. You won't ever get something for nothing.

4. Monetary incentives may get short term performance results, but won't cultivate for the long run
a) lasting personal ethics,
b) humanitarian values,
c) sympathy for intelligence,
d) love of reading, studying and learning or
e) sustaining of one's own education after formal schooling ends.

5. Commodified teachers will commodify their own and their students' learning.

Eventually, schools reflect on their society and parents get the schools they deserve. In globalization, where corporations become government, their children will learn the price of everything and the value of nothing. Perhaps, then, their church attendance among those who "traffick in morality" may increase. To me it will all come to a regression from Enlightenment ideals. Or something better that I can't foresee.

An extensive analysis on commodifying what used to be accepted as intrinsically valued for human growth -- education, the arts, public health, public projects and spaces, etc. -- is in Michael J. Sandel's book, "What Money Can't Buy -- The Moral Limits of Markets." I recommend it to anyone who needs arguments against the privatizing of human development in our lifetime.

Maybe this post doesn't seem related to tenure, but I've argued for the history and importance of tenure ad nauseum and just wanted to point to a context that drives much current anti-tenure activity, besides the usual bureaucratic, opportunistic ones of Rhee and her ilk.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 04:27 PM

54. K&R....

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 05:09 PM

56. K & R

Sick of the teacher bashing, administrator bashing. You can remove a poorly performing teacher, so blaming it "on the union" is a lie.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 06:11 PM

59. The disgusting right have fooled the idiots of the left

who don't bother to think anymore than the tea party idiots bother to question the pap they espouse.

Not that brown is a leftie, but she falls into that wide chasm where idiots who can't think deeper than the shallow end of a wading pool live.

Too many Democrats do this too. They just nod their head and turn away when neo-con fantasies about education are put into action by the administration they elected.

I notice that when posts about the atrocity that is this administration's education goals are posted, you don't get a lot of people defending what the administration is doing. There is silence from the most vocal defenders of every single step to the right taken in the last 6 years. They know this is wrong. They just don't care about children or learning. Sort of the "I got mine. To hell with you" mentality.

Whether he is one of the unprincipled movers of this atrocity or one of the unthinking multitude (I'll avoid saying idiot), the results are the same. The major and lasting legacy of this president will likely be the death of American public education. If Democrats don't fight these attacks on teachers and children, just who will?

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 06:29 PM

60. Tenure is the icing on a mediocre cupcake

Last edited Tue Jul 29, 2014, 09:50 PM - Edit history (1)

It's what would-be teachers aspire to. Most know that their job will be mostly thankless, and underpaid for a large part of their career.. Tenure is what makes it endurable. MANY bright young people start out teaching with stars in their eyes, and then burn out and go to other fields for jobs, Tenure is the carrot that keeps many teaching.

Of course, getting rid of tenure, makes it easier to "let go" that teacher who is approaching higher wages.. It allows for a steady stream of newbies who will work for much less...and of course are probably less effective teachers, but rich ladies, whose kids will probably go to private schools for most of their school-going years, and whose parents can easily afford college, know how your kids should be taught...and by whom..

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Response to SoCalDem (Reply #60)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 07:57 PM

63. Well said. Higher wages play a huge part in this.

That's why many areas are saying that higher degrees such as masters or ph-d's shouldn't get higher pay. They don't want the added expense.

Education on the cheap.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 06:31 PM

61. Recommended! (#101)

I serve on a public school board in NYS, and I agree with you 101%.

Thank you for this.

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Response to H2O Man (Reply #61)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 07:58 PM

64. ....

And thank you for your comment.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 08:11 PM

65. just another scam to give tax money to billionaires

 

alot like the ACA.

I hope I love long enough to see the guillotines come out.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 11:21 PM

70. She is absolutely beaming! Why is Wall Street on the Potomac.

Neil Barofsky Gave Us The Best Explanation For Washington's Dysfunction We've Ever Heard

Linette Lopez
Business Insider, Aug. 1, 2012, 2:57 PM

Neil Barofsky was the Inspector General for TARP, and just wrote a book about his time in D.C. called Bailout: An Insider Account of How Washington Abandoned Main Street While Rescuing Wall Street.

SNIP...

Bottom line: Barofsky said the incentive structure in our nation's capitol is all wrong. There's a revolving door between bureaucrats in Washington and Wall Street banks, and politicians just want to keep their jobs.

For regulators it's something like this:

[font color="green"]"You can play ball and good things can happen to you get a big pot of gold at the end of the Wall Street rainbow or you can do your job be aggressive and face personal ruin...We really need to rethink how we govern and how regulate," Barofsky said.[/font color]


CONTINUED... http://www.businessinsider.com/neil-barofsky-2012-8

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Tue Jul 29, 2014, 11:25 PM

71. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, madfloridian.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Wed Jul 30, 2014, 12:43 AM

72. Blaming the teachers for the problems in U.S. education is to distract from the real issues.

Instead of merely commiserating among yourselves, do your homework.

Read some of the works of education critics such as Jonathon Kozol and John Taylor Gatto.

From Kozol's Wikipedia page: Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozol

**********
Kozol is still active in advocating for integrated public education in the United States and is an outspoken critic of the school voucher movement. He continues to condemn the inequalities of education and speaks unrelentingly of the apparently worsening segregation of black and Hispanic children from white children in the segregated public schools of almost every major city of the nation.

Kozol's ethical argument relies heavily on comparisons between rich and poor school districts. In particular, he analyzes the amount of money spent per child. He finds that in school districts whose taxpayers and property-owners are relatively wealthy, the per-child annual spending is much higher (for example, over $20,000 per year per child in one district) than in school districts where poor people live (for example, $11,000 per year per child in one district). He asks rhetorically whether it is right that the place of one's birth should determine the quality of one's education...
**********

Another critic who criticizes the (unstated) aims and practices of the U.S. educational system is John Taylor Gatto.

From Gatto's Wikipedia page -- Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto

**********
What does the school do to children? Gatto asserts the following in "Dumbing Us Down":

It confuses the students. It presents an incoherent ensemble of information that the child needs to memorize to stay in school. Apart from the tests and trials that programming is similar to the television, it fills almost all the "free" time of children. One sees and hears something, only to forget it again.
It teaches them to accept their class affiliation.
It makes them indifferent.
It makes them emotionally dependent.
It makes them intellectually dependent.
It teaches them a kind of self-confidence that requires constant confirmation by experts (provisional self-esteem).
It makes it clear to them that they cannot hide, because they are always supervised.[13]

He also draws a contrast between communities and “networks,” with the former being healthy, and schools being examples of the latter; in the United States, networks have become an unhealthy substitute for community.
**********

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 10:08 AM

76. What about these teachers?

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/22/new-york-teachers-paid-to_n_219336.html

"NEW YORK — Hundreds of New York City public school teachers accused of offenses ranging from insubordination to sexual misconduct are being paid their full salaries to sit around all day playing Scrabble, surfing the Internet or just staring at the wall, if that's what they want to do.

Because their union contract makes it extremely difficult to fire them, the teachers have been banished by the school system to its "rubber rooms" _ off-campus office space where they wait months, even years, for their disciplinary hearings.

The 700 or so teachers can practice yoga, work on their novels, paint portraits of their colleagues _ pretty much anything but school work. They have summer vacation just like their classroom colleagues and enjoy weekends and holidays through the school year.

"You just basically sit there for eight hours," said Orlando Ramos, who spent seven months in a rubber room, officially known as a temporary reassignment center, in 2004-05. "I saw several near-fights. `This is my seat.' `I've been sitting here for six months.' That sort of thing."

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Response to joeglow3 (Reply #76)

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 11:38 AM

79. Not getting their rights for quick resolve of issue, management falling down on the job.

They are left hanging because they may have been accused by anyone of anything and it is never brought to justice. A good percentage go back into the classroom because of unjust accusations.

Read this: He was a whistleblower against management back deeds....and he fought back courageously.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/11248346

If you choose to judge all teachers by your experience, that is not my problem.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Thu Jul 31, 2014, 11:42 AM

80. DURec

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Fri Aug 1, 2014, 10:38 AM

83. Rec. Thanks for shedding more light on these crooked privateers

and their attack on American Education.

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Response to madfloridian (Original post)

Sat Aug 2, 2014, 07:00 PM

91. These kids are not going to get a better education if they're taught by temps

Which is what will likely happen if they do away with tenure. These "reformers" don't give a damn about the kids, it's all about hiring low wage temps to do the job and do away with the unions.
Teaching is damn hard work, why would anyone even want to do it for $10 an hour?

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