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Archae

(46,262 posts)
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 01:37 PM Jul 2014

Nazi Dictatorship...I mean Homeowners Association bans veteran from making furniture...

And of course, the HOA has no comment.

Homeowners' Association Bans Veteran From Building Furniture For Military Families

It seems building furniture doesn't sit well with the snooty neighbors in a Sacramento suburb. It interferes with their manicured gardens or something.

No good deed goes unpunished, as veteran Dennis Kocher has discovered.

Via Americans Against the Tea Party:

Meet Dennis Kocher, a Vietnam veteran and skilled craftsman who makes furniture for military families in need at the nearby Beale U.S. Air Force base. Unfortunately, CBS13 reports, his snotty homeowners association told him to close shop or face $100.00 to $1,000.00 fines.

“Here I am, a Vietnam veteran doing something for the military, building furniture and donating it, and Lake of the Pines wants to close me down.”

Kocher lives in Lake of the Pines, a gated community outside of Sacramento, Calif. in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountain range. Here, most homes have three or more bedrooms and list for $250,000 and up — cheap for California but pricey for the area. And people who sink that much money into their homes are less likely to tolerate anything that annoys them.

http://crooksandliars.com/2014/07/homeowners-association-bans-veteran

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Nazi Dictatorship...I mean Homeowners Association bans veteran from making furniture... (Original Post) Archae Jul 2014 OP
Not sure I would want a carpentry shop next door to me. Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #1
me either. i live in a townhouse type community so we are real close together. guy tried to do Liberal_in_LA Jul 2014 #59
He agreed to the rules when he purchased the house. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #2
The rules can change on you after you've bought the house. JimDandy Jul 2014 #76
Then they should have participated in the process. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #82
Changing of a property right can require 100% agreement DURHAM D Jul 2014 #84
Depends upon the state and the HOA. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #87
Changing the covenants is one thing. DURHAM D Jul 2014 #89
A good attorney, yes. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #95
people are so self centered archaic56 Jul 2014 #127
Have another drink. DURHAM D Jul 2014 #128
your derogatory post archaic56 Jul 2014 #139
Comparing CC&Rs of a development to Nazis is offensive, downplays what the nazis did/do. uppityperson Jul 2014 #3
Come on. Preventing some guy from running his buzzsaw at all hours in a residential neighborhood Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #23
Render unto Godwin that which is Godwin's… Jackpine Radical Jul 2014 #58
it's become commonplace to label anything bad as 'nazi' Liberal_in_LA Jul 2014 #60
agreed nt ! steve2470 Jul 2014 #140
This overplaying the Nazi card. TIMETOCHANGE Aug 2014 #151
HOAs were created to keep neighborhoods restricted and segregated.... TheDebbieDee Jul 2014 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #10
That was said exactly like a member of a HOA would say it. TheDebbieDee Jul 2014 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #15
Every resident of an HOA neighborhood is a member Zambero Jul 2014 #103
They even have rules about what color you can paint your house- Ken Burch Jul 2014 #22
So, people who want to live in a neighborhood with funky-colored houses Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #25
It's not choice, it's coerced conformity. Ken Burch Jul 2014 #30
Wow, I didn't realize that people are forced to buy houses in neighborhoods run by HOAs. Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #32
Give us a break, we do not have zoning laws in most of Harris County, Texas so if you Thinkingabout Jul 2014 #130
There was a subdivision in suburban KC that tried to mandate green lawns. delta17 Jul 2014 #88
That has been happening all over. Mariana Jul 2014 #111
I am happy to say state law over ruled the HOA's. My HOA enforced the Thinkingabout Jul 2014 #129
Actually, few HOAs have those sorts of rules these days. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #109
few HOAs have those sort of rules? 2pooped2pop Jul 2014 #113
We have an HOA and I'm glad we do. I read the rules in detail, nothing was a surprise. Basically, RKP5637 Jul 2014 #37
Actually they were originally created to DURHAM D Jul 2014 #11
I submit that their purpose evolved in some communities TheDebbieDee Jul 2014 #14
What is an undesirable? nt DURHAM D Jul 2014 #16
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #17
I think you will appreciate this. DURHAM D Jul 2014 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #67
HOAs collect fees from members and then use those fees to TheDebbieDee Jul 2014 #29
The only undesirable is someone who does not pay their dues. DURHAM D Jul 2014 #34
The undesireable was anyone not like the majority of the members of the HOA. TheDebbieDee Jul 2014 #42
Disputes with the Board do not negate the requirement to pay dues. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #47
Do you own a home in an HOA? DURHAM D Jul 2014 #48
Got a link to HOAs buying soon to be vacant homes? MohRokTah Jul 2014 #40
It's illegal to do that now. But some HOA agreements are so complicated TheDebbieDee Jul 2014 #49
HOA agreements are very straight forward MohRokTah Jul 2014 #52
Some HOA's have a Right Of First Refusal which, as the other poster hinted, can be used.. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2014 #119
That's why the ROFR for HOAs is now longer legal in Illinois. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #121
Do you have a link to ROFR being illegal in Illinois? Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2014 #122
My apologies, I reviewed the booklet from the meeting the Board and I attended. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #123
How could that work? HOAs do not get to approve or decline purchasers AFAIK. (nt) Nye Bevan Jul 2014 #27
I guess an "undesirable" would be any person who gets to the closing... MohRokTah Jul 2014 #33
HOAs get to approve or decline the purchaser if it owns the house/property to be purchased. TheDebbieDee Jul 2014 #36
Link please. eom MohRokTah Jul 2014 #41
What do mean link? It's US history of the 50s - 80s. TheDebbieDee Jul 2014 #53
Link to any story about a HOA purchasing a home. eom MohRokTah Jul 2014 #54
Uhm...no. You show me a link (from a reputable source) stating TheDebbieDee Jul 2014 #69
You made the first claim. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #81
lol, now that's funny 2pooped2pop Jul 2014 #98
lol, now that's funny MohRokTah Jul 2014 #101
OMG 2pooped2pop Jul 2014 #107
. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #108
there is no burden of proof 2pooped2pop Jul 2014 #112
I'm sorry but that poster doesn't have to prove what they say. 2pooped2pop Jul 2014 #114
Not really. DURHAM D Jul 2014 #45
I have had clients (mortgage clients) that were required to submit ... Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2014 #120
Some were KT2000 Jul 2014 #71
My HOA neighborhood is quite integrated Zambero Jul 2014 #102
Couple of the 1950/60s era HA rules I looked at years ago still had the 'no Negroes allowed' Sunlei Jul 2014 #148
Two bits says his router was the last straw Brother Buzz Jul 2014 #5
Insipid? I don't think that word means what you think it means. MineralMan Jul 2014 #55
I guess you're right again Brother Buzz Jul 2014 #70
My shaper was pretty darned noisy. MineralMan Jul 2014 #75
Shapers are generally powered by induction motors at much slower speed than routers Brother Buzz Jul 2014 #92
I'm no longer doing woodworking. MineralMan Jul 2014 #100
I bet it was a jointer MohRokTah Jul 2014 #56
Not the joiners I've used years after year Brother Buzz Jul 2014 #72
Jointer, not joiner MohRokTah Jul 2014 #83
I'm enjoying my dumb day Brother Buzz Jul 2014 #91
HOA rules usually win in the end jehop61 Jul 2014 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #7
In most HOAs, amending the covenant is nearly impossible MohRokTah Jul 2014 #8
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #13
Precisely. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #24
HOAs are terrible A Little Weird Jul 2014 #9
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #18
Exactly! Ours is great! I'm amazed at what they do for so little fees. The community really looks RKP5637 Jul 2014 #43
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #65
Your HOA sounds a lot like ours. What is not to like? I asked myself. truedelphi Jul 2014 #105
That, is really horrible! Actually, thinking back, I did have sort of an incident once ... RKP5637 Jul 2014 #106
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #118
Boy, am I glad you caught their mistake. But imagine that you were forty years older, truedelphi Jul 2014 #136
Yep, I think a lot of Control Freaks love to get onto HOA boards. n/t RKP5637 Jul 2014 #138
This message was self-deleted by its author lostincalifornia Jul 2014 #117
most neighborhoods have an HOA now 2pooped2pop Jul 2014 #115
Ours is pretty bad - TBF Jul 2014 #19
Fuck a HOA, the agreement is with the owners not the property TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #20
You're wrong. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #28
I know you are correct on how the scam is set up, I'm talking about how it should be TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #63
What in the world are you on about? nt DURHAM D Jul 2014 #66
If they were limited to the financing of the maintenance of common areas then I'd object less TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #133
You have no clue what a HOA is. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #80
No, I prefer to buy wherever I elect and if the neighborhood club is attractive then I will join it TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #124
Psst, here's a clue... MohRokTah Jul 2014 #125
Which I object to, why should some unelected private government control commerce to such a degree? TheKentuckian Jul 2014 #132
The Board of Directors is elected once the development reaches a level of ownership. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #134
Should have sound-proofed your work room buddy thelordofhell Jul 2014 #21
Yes, if he soundproofs Warpy Jul 2014 #39
Military bases often have "hobby shops" where people can go and do that kind of stuff. MADem Jul 2014 #126
Yep, my thought too. I've used a lot of power tools in my time, and a number of them RKP5637 Jul 2014 #46
Nazi Dictatorship? Really? DonViejo Jul 2014 #31
Yes, a very bad analogy Zambero Jul 2014 #64
You can't just ignore the rules RandiFan1290 Jul 2014 #35
* unless you work for the government. nt bunnies Jul 2014 #90
Now bunnies, just where will truedelphi Jul 2014 #137
Buzzsaw. Loud. Iggo Jul 2014 #38
I wish there was an Hoa like that here. Hatchling Jul 2014 #44
Yep, I was by a house the other day, the guy sets up power tools under a tent in front of this RKP5637 Jul 2014 #50
It's ironic that these neighborhoods are always full of right-wingers who hate government. alarimer Jul 2014 #51
I tend to hate HOAs, but who wants to hear power tools running in a residential neighborhood? Throd Jul 2014 #57
I have avoided homeowner's associations like I would avoid living in a leper colony aint_no_life_nowhere Jul 2014 #61
Important to know HOA CC&R's in ADVANCE of moving into a neighborhood Zambero Jul 2014 #62
"My gated community won't let me have my way." conservaphobe Jul 2014 #68
Let's all give a Bronx cheer for the hit and run ridiculous Nazi reference. onenote Jul 2014 #73
I hate HOAs. That said, kiva Jul 2014 #74
Soundproofing or dampening, and filters for the smelly JimDandy Jul 2014 #78
Zoning laws? SheilaT Jul 2014 #77
Misleading Story. The River Jul 2014 #79
It's not just the noise, but the odors. n/t tammywammy Jul 2014 #85
So once again the "media" distorts a story. Archae Jul 2014 #86
For Every Horror Story The River Jul 2014 #96
He did the right thing-got a permit from the HOA JimDandy Jul 2014 #94
Yeah, I thought that was kinda low. Iggo Jul 2014 #99
I stuck my hand in fire and I got burned. The fire is a Nazi for burning me. bunnies Jul 2014 #93
How dramatic.... Ultra_Blue Jul 2014 #97
What gets me is people that join HOAs... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #104
I'm on the Board of Directors of my HOA. MohRokTah Jul 2014 #110
I couldn't find one within the area I wanted to live that didn't have one 2pooped2pop Jul 2014 #131
I wouldn't accept a HOA-subject home as a gift. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #116
HOAs are a microcosm of government melm00se Jul 2014 #135
Homeowners Associations are UN-constitutional & oppress people at the local "Small'-Gov. level. Sunlei Jul 2014 #141
HOw are they unconstitutional? brooklynite Jul 2014 #142
HAs prevent -some- people from earning a living from their own home. Sunlei Jul 2014 #145
The City of New York also restricts your ability to run a business in a residential building. brooklynite Jul 2014 #146
small family run businesses used to be the backbone of America. Sunlei Jul 2014 #147
So was child labor. brooklynite Jul 2014 #149
This would fit nicely on a Tea Party blog... brooklynite Jul 2014 #143
That's a pretty loose use of Nazi analogy there Capt. Obvious Jul 2014 #144
the thread shows how little empathy humans have these days archaic56 Aug 2014 #150

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
1. Not sure I would want a carpentry shop next door to me.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 01:45 PM
Jul 2014

And presumably this guy knew the rules when he decided to buy a house in this gated community. I appreciate what he is doing but there is lots of worthwhile stuff that people do that I wouldn't want being done next door to me.

 

Liberal_in_LA

(44,397 posts)
59. me either. i live in a townhouse type community so we are real close together. guy tried to do
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:22 PM
Jul 2014

Some machining type work - that spinning thing that items are placed against - made a hell of a lot of noise all Saturday. Yup need a single family home in the boondocks for that kind of thing

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
2. He agreed to the rules when he purchased the house.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 01:47 PM
Jul 2014

If a HOA gives a variance to one home owner, they give it to ALL home owners.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
76. The rules can change on you after you've bought the house.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:37 PM
Jul 2014

Am familiar with an HOA that changed the rules so that homeowners couldn't rent their houses. Only current or previous rentals were grandfathered in. This happened during the nationwide foreclosure epidemic when rental properties were in high demand.

Homeowners objected and there was talk of a lawsuit. In the meantime, one homeowner who had wanted to rent out their property was forced to do a short sale instead.

I always advise people I know to avoid HOA properties if they can, especially if they are looking for a single family home. HOA's work best mostly for developments with multi-family buildings.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
82. Then they should have participated in the process.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:03 PM
Jul 2014

The covenant will spell out very clearly how the covenant can be amended. If it is up to the whim of the Board, you are a fool if you buy into that HOA. Most require a 2/3 vote of the homeowners and in most cases, that is nearly impossible to achieve.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
87. Depends upon the state and the HOA.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:14 PM
Jul 2014

In my HOA, it's 1 more home than 50% to change the covenant, and we've never seen more than 30% at any Board election. This last Board election, only the Board showed up. We know there is no way we'd ever be capable of changing the covenant.

That's the minimum required by the state, too.

But we're fortunate. We have a fence standard and the rest we leave up to the village to enforce because it's all village ordinances from there. Everything else is about maintaining common property.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
89. Changing the covenants is one thing.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:21 PM
Jul 2014

The restrictive rental provision mentioned above is changing "property rights". A good attorney would advise the Association not to go there as they will be sued and they will lose without 100% owner agreement. Part of the problem, of course, is in finding a good attorney.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
95. A good attorney, yes.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 06:01 PM
Jul 2014

HOA Boards REALLY have to watch the attorneys they hire as many of them will have some junior attorney who would advise the Board on how to go there and never mention they shouldn't.

Why?

Because once they go there, the attorneys will be defending the HOA in the ensuing lawsuits.

archaic56

(53 posts)
127. people are so self centered
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 07:06 PM
Jul 2014

IN the first place, would not live some where that had a "HOA> Snobs.. secondly the man is doing a good deed.. but folks discuss the HOAS wow.. guess individual rights don't matter round here. HOAS the NIMBYS (not in my back yards) of the upper middle classes

archaic56

(53 posts)
139. your derogatory post
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 12:48 PM
Jul 2014

thanks for taking I see happen everyday offline as well as on and by saying what you di.. making me feel as if what I HAVE OBSERVED is not happening. I KNOW it does.., social prejudice is NOT just a province of the right.. many lefties have their own unique prejudices..

OH and I do not drink at all.. being diabetic that would be a death wish

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
23. Come on. Preventing some guy from running his buzzsaw at all hours in a residential neighborhood
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:38 PM
Jul 2014

is practically the same thing as murdering 6 million Jews, no?

 

TIMETOCHANGE

(86 posts)
151. This overplaying the Nazi card.
Sat Aug 2, 2014, 06:18 PM
Aug 2014

It's an HOA. HOAs mean you limit your rights to how you conduct yourself on your own property. If you want freedom then avoid HOAs altogether, it's that simple. I loathe HOAs and will never own a house in an HOA community, the condos I own in COAs are bad enough to deal with.

Feel bad for the guy, but he knew what he was getting into, or should have known, when he got into an HOA property.

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
4. HOAs were created to keep neighborhoods restricted and segregated....
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 01:49 PM
Jul 2014

You're not far off the mark to refer to them as nazis! Why HOAs continue to hold so much power is a mystery to me!

Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #4)

Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #12)

Zambero

(8,954 posts)
103. Every resident of an HOA neighborhood is a member
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 08:18 PM
Jul 2014

If you take up residence in a neighborhood with an HOA (in this area, virtually every subdivision built in the past 30 years) you are automatically a member, whether you like HOA's or not. I'm not convinced that confers any special brand of communication style, however.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
22. They even have rules about what color you can paint your house-
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:36 PM
Jul 2014

Which shouldn't be any of their damn business if you own the place. That's why most places with HOA's look dreary unto death.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
25. So, people who want to live in a neighborhood with funky-colored houses
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:41 PM
Jul 2014

should choose not to buy into an HOA community.

People with more boring tastes who want the houses to look similar and standardized can choose to buy in a neighborhood controlled by an HOA.

Choice is a good thing.

 

Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)
30. It's not choice, it's coerced conformity.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:47 PM
Jul 2014


It's the opposite of freedom.

Another example(Garry Trudeau pointed this out in Doonesbury awhile back) is HOA's that won't let people dry their clothes on clotheslines...a prohibition that drives up people's electric bills by hundreds of dollars a year in some places.

Home ownership should never mean the right to force other homeowners to obey your commands, as if you were some sort of feudal liege lord.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
32. Wow, I didn't realize that people are forced to buy houses in neighborhoods run by HOAs.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:49 PM
Jul 2014

Or is that HOAs descend on and take control of previously unrestricted communities?

Either way, this is awful.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
130. Give us a break, we do not have zoning laws in most of Harris County, Texas so if you
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 07:22 PM
Jul 2014

Purchase a home in a subdivision it has a HOA. What annoys me is the board making rules which violate the By-laws and try to stick it to the residences.

delta17

(283 posts)
88. There was a subdivision in suburban KC that tried to mandate green lawns.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:18 PM
Jul 2014

This was during a water shortage. I think they backed down after the paper ran a story about it.

Mariana

(14,849 posts)
111. That has been happening all over.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 10:26 PM
Jul 2014

Some HOA's just love harassing and even fining people for obeying the watering restrictions during a severe drought. It was going on in Texas when I lived there a few years ago and I understand from friends that it's still going on there.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
129. I am happy to say state law over ruled the HOA's. My HOA enforced the
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 07:17 PM
Jul 2014

St Augustine grass which requires lots of water but can still die in high temperatures. When Texas realized how much it was going to cost to produce water in the future we are now allowed to plant grass which does not require as much water to maintain.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
109. Actually, few HOAs have those sorts of rules these days.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 10:12 PM
Jul 2014

Those rules are mostly city ordinances now.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
113. few HOAs have those sort of rules?
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:30 PM
Jul 2014

Few? How could you know this? Have you checked into all of the HOA rules in every neighborhood? Please show the links, or like you stated to the other poster "we will all know you made it up"



I guess it's ok for you to do that though. Just not someone that you think you are DEBATING. You also get to call people ignorant and liars?

I guess there really are special rules for special people.

but thanks, you crack me up.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
37. We have an HOA and I'm glad we do. I read the rules in detail, nothing was a surprise. Basically,
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:53 PM
Jul 2014

they say if this isn't what you want, then please do not buy here. We have some very sensible rules.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
11. Actually they were originally created to
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:06 PM
Jul 2014

make the developer pay for infrastructure and take the burden off the county/city. Worked well as the county got lots and lots of new property tax revenue without the cost of building streets, curbs and guttering, putting up street signs, adding waterlines, sewer and fire hydrants.

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
14. I submit that their purpose evolved in some communities
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:14 PM
Jul 2014

To keep "undesireables" out of the neighborhood.

Response to TheDebbieDee (Reply #14)

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
26. I think you will appreciate this.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:42 PM
Jul 2014

A woman who lives up the street stopped me one day while I was out walking. I had never talked to her before but she was complaining about the HOA. She told me that they made her put her indoor/outdoor cat to sleep. I just listened knowing full well the HOA does not have any rules about pets because the city ordinances cover the subject. I just let her rant.

The following day I ran into the HOA President at the grocery store and asked her if anything about pet ownership/behavior had come before the Board. Of course the answer was no.

A week or so later the man who lives right next door to the woman with the cat told me that she was a tenant and she got in trouble with her landlord because her lease specifically said she could not have a pet. Apparently he had reported it to the owner because they are still friends on Facebook. Anyway, the owner told her to get rid of the cat and blamed the lease provision on the HOA.

The tenant lied about her cat and the owner lied about the HOA. All is normal as the former cat owner probably hates, hates, hates HOAs and will never live in one. Okay by me.

Response to DURHAM D (Reply #26)

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
29. HOAs collect fees from members and then use those fees to
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:45 PM
Jul 2014

Contract to have sidewalks built, trash collection expanded, a playground erected or purchase a soon-to-be-vacant home so that the HOA has control over who will be allowed to buy the home.

An "undesireable" would become any member who then begins to question the HOA's policies or the expansion of the existing rules.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
34. The only undesirable is someone who does not pay their dues.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:50 PM
Jul 2014

Thus they borrow money from their dues paying neighbors without permission and sometimes with no intent of paying it back.

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
42. The undesireable was anyone not like the majority of the members of the HOA.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:00 PM
Jul 2014

Going after members who dont pay their dues (usually as a result of a dispute with the HOA) is the reason the HOA uses as an excuse.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
47. Disputes with the Board do not negate the requirement to pay dues.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:06 PM
Jul 2014

I don't think you have a clue how a HOA operates.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
48. Do you own a home in an HOA?
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:07 PM
Jul 2014

Do you pay your dues? Do you have a dispute with the HOA?

btw - a dispute is not an allowed or legal reason to withhold payment.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
40. Got a link to HOAs buying soon to be vacant homes?
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:57 PM
Jul 2014

I know that would be illegal in Illinois. HOAs can, and do, evict deadbeat homeowners who fail to pay dues, then rent the homes to gain back dues and attorney fees, but a HOA cannot purchase a home here.

And the eviction process is a long one, usually 18 to 24 months after the first missed payment with attorneys getting involved at about the 9th month.

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
49. It's illegal to do that now. But some HOA agreements are so complicated
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:07 PM
Jul 2014

and convoluted that it wouldnt be difficult to use some other, more socially acceptable reason to give some member hard time.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
52. HOA agreements are very straight forward
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:11 PM
Jul 2014

The only people I have ever seen go afoul with them are those who failed to read them.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
119. Some HOA's have a Right Of First Refusal which, as the other poster hinted, can be used..
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:29 PM
Jul 2014

.... to discriminate against "undesirables".

This is one of the reasons FHA will not lend when there is a ROFR present - because it has been historically used for discrimination.

You appear to be from Illinois. Look up Jorrie Butler (of Oak Brook society fame, Butler Aviation and Oak Brook Mall) and Hunter Trails..

See:


http://openjurist.org/685/f2d/184/phillips-v-hunter-trails-community-association

In 1979 and 1980 William J. Phillips, a successful black businessman, was looking for a new house. He found what he wanted in the Hunter Trails subdivision of Oak Brook, Illinois-a 12,000 square-foot, tri-level home on a large lot. He offered $675,000 for it, and his offer was accepted by the owner, Dennis Broderick, on June 13, 1980. Mr. Phillips deposited $75,000 in earnest money, and a closing date was set for July 21, 1980. In the expectation that they would be able to move into the house as agreed, the Phillipses sold their house in Homewood, Illinois, agreeing to give up possession on July 21, and obtained a mortgage commitment on the new house from Seaway Bank on June 24, 1980.

2

Between June 24 and July 17, the Phillipses heard nothing about any difficulties with their move. But events were moving rapidly in Hunter Trails. On June 18 fifteen people came to an early morning meeting-officers and directors of the Hunter Trails Community Association and some homeowners-but Mr. Broderick, who had the only first-hand knowledge about the terms of the sale and who was also the vice-president of the Association and a Board member, was not notified of the meeting and did not attend.

3

One of the covenants that attached to every piece of property in the Hunter Trails subdivision gave the Association a thirty-day right of first refusal on any proposed sale. Accordingly, the Association could have forestalled the Phillipses by buying Broderick's house for $675,000. The outcome of the June 18 meeting was a decision instead to assign the Association's first refusal right to a syndicate or limited partnership. In the days that followed, no such assignee could be found or formed. The Association therefore turned its attentions to Mrs. Jorie Ford Butler as a potential purchaser. Mrs. Butler's family had founded Oak Brook and various members of the Butler family still owned property in Hunter Trails. Mrs. Butler herself had looked at the Broderick house in the early spring of 1980, before the Phillipses saw it, but was not interested in buying it then. When the Association proposal was presented to her in mid-July, however, she agreed to buy the Association's first-refusal option for $10,000 and exercised the option on July 17, agreeing to pay the Brodericks $675,000 for their house. They refused to close the sale on July 19 because she would not indemnify them from possible liability to the Phillipses.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
121. That's why the ROFR for HOAs is now longer legal in Illinois.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:52 PM
Jul 2014

They no longer exist here because they were historically used to discriminate.

The only thing HOAs have now that is controversial is the right to first payment on foreclosure. IF a bank forecloses, they assume all debt the homeowners had to the HOA. It's controversial because the banks don't like it.

I'm on the Board of my HOA and we have evicted a bank and changed the locks on the home in order to rent the home to receive back payment. The bank refused to settle th back dues and attorney fees. Apparently, their attorneys did not understand how the law worked in Illinois.

I must say, it was very satisfying to evict a bank and take over the home in order to rent it for what was owed. We got the home caught up in a year and the bank sold the home at auction. The new owners only assumed three months of back dues when they took over.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
123. My apologies, I reviewed the booklet from the meeting the Board and I attended.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 05:59 PM
Jul 2014

It's not that it's illegal, it's that it has become nearly unenforceable. No new HOAs add the language as it is the builder that actually starts the HOA and no builders want to be limited to no FHA loans. So new builds never have ROFR in the covenants.

As far as enforceability goes, nearly all ROFRs still in language are in Condminium Associations, which are legally different from HOAs. Most of the HOAs that still contain that language require a 100% vote of homeowners to exercise the right, then they must come up with the funds, of course.

Most HOAs that once had that language have also removed the language due to FHA loan requirements.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
33. I guess an "undesirable" would be any person who gets to the closing...
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:50 PM
Jul 2014

and then ends the deal by refusing to sign the HOA agreement.

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
36. HOAs get to approve or decline the purchaser if it owns the house/property to be purchased.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:53 PM
Jul 2014

This is the way neighborhoods were kept restricted and segregated....

 

TheDebbieDee

(11,119 posts)
69. Uhm...no. You show me a link (from a reputable source) stating
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:39 PM
Jul 2014

That all HOAs have discontinued this practice.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
81. You made the first claim.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:01 PM
Jul 2014

You are under the burden of proof.

Provide the link or all will know you made it up.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
101. lol, now that's funny
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:43 PM
Jul 2014

ignore the procedure for logical debate and we all laugh about it, HAHAHAHAHA

Uneducated much?

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
112. there is no burden of proof
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:23 PM
Jul 2014

No one owes you a damned thing. Look shit up yourself if you want to see something. This is not a debate board. Lots of people post opinion, as well.

so educate YOUR self.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
114. I'm sorry but that poster doesn't have to prove what they say.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:35 PM
Jul 2014

They are all knowing. And only those of us who are liars, or just ignorant,(according to that poster) have to show links when that poster thinks they are DEBATING. It's the rules.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
45. Not really.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:05 PM
Jul 2014

There is, however, one very famous case of the refusal of a Cooperative in New York to allow a sell to Richard Nixon after he resigned the Presidency. It is important to note that a Cooperative is a completely different type of legal entity than the shared interest communities (HOAs) being discussed in this thread.

Also, to the best of my knowledge there is not a single Cooperative in my entire state and this is true of many states.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,272 posts)
120. I have had clients (mortgage clients) that were required to submit ...
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 02:33 PM
Jul 2014

... a credit application and in-person interview before their condominium purchase was approved by the HOA.

KT2000

(20,544 posts)
71. Some were
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:50 PM
Jul 2014

but they are also used when zoning has not been done for an area that would protect it as residential. Where I live there are covenants that preserve the development as residential and height limits to give everyone a view of the water. There is a prohibition against businesses in the home that would disrupt the residential quality of the neighborhood.
A man next door ran a cabinet shop out of his home - it was saws all day long and solvents and finishes in the air daily. He also had semis delivering often. He thought everything was about him but he had to stop.

Without the covenants we could have had stores and gas stations and multi-story hotels anywhere they wanted in the neighborhood.

HOA covenants that discriminate are illegal now.

Zambero

(8,954 posts)
102. My HOA neighborhood is quite integrated
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 08:03 PM
Jul 2014

I prefer a diverse community, and this one has it all -- including age, ethnicity, political, and religious. But everyone who lives here is expected to abide by the rules, which were available to review before closing documents were signed. One's demographic, or prior military status for that matter, does not confer any exemption from them. As far as power goes, every resident here is an equal member. We elect the board of directors to one-year terms and are provided with an opportunity to volunteer as such on an annual basis. I don't personally like or agree with every CC&R or by-law but I knew what they were when moving here 9 years ago and signed onto them without coercion. I don't believe that victims of Nazi atrocities were provide with any amount of freedom or opportunity to affect their fates, and as such it seems like a poor analogy.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
148. Couple of the 1950/60s era HA rules I looked at years ago still had the 'no Negroes allowed'
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 03:27 PM
Jul 2014

A lot of real estate agents still reflect the unspoken segregation of todays' Texas in every sale. "That's the 'bad' schools", "that's the 'bad' neighborhood."

Now of course most HA use the online form service for all of them across this fine nation. The form where your next door neighbor can turn you in anonymously to HA whenever they want. The form that sets a 100 a day fine for grass to tall, twigs on the curb the wrong day. The loss of your home if you don't pay those fines!

Brother Buzz

(36,215 posts)
5. Two bits says his router was the last straw
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 01:51 PM
Jul 2014

The router is an insipid tool that is louder and more obnoxious then a weed whacker.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
55. Insipid? I don't think that word means what you think it means.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:17 PM
Jul 2014

Routers are noisy. Routers can be dangerous to the user. But they're not insipid.

in·sip·id
adjective
lacking flavor.
"mugs of insipid coffee"
synonyms: tasteless, flavorless, bland, weak, wishy-washy; More
antonyms: tasty
lacking vigor or interest.
"many artists continued to churn out insipid, shallow works"

Brother Buzz

(36,215 posts)
70. I guess you're right again
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:46 PM
Jul 2014

Nevertheless, if he put out real money for a shaper neighbors wouldn't be complaining

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
75. My shaper was pretty darned noisy.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:33 PM
Jul 2014

Chewing up wood is noisy work. And then there's the planer. That tool had very limited hours in my workshop, and I normally warned my nearest neighbor if I had lots of work to do with it. If he asked, I'd put it off until a better time.

Brother Buzz

(36,215 posts)
92. Shapers are generally powered by induction motors at much slower speed than routers
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:31 PM
Jul 2014

and are much quieter and the sound doesn't travel as far as routers. Same for planers, although those brush motor jobs do scream compared to an old school planer.

I'm happy you are a considerate neighbor.

MineralMan

(146,192 posts)
100. I'm no longer doing woodworking.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:41 PM
Jul 2014

[bWhen I sold my house in California, it came with a shop full of high-end woodworking equipment. I had stopped doing projects for magazines and had moved on to another topic. That was a major selling point. The shop building itself had been built as a cover story for one of the magazines I wrote for. All of the equipment and tools were from reviews I did. None of the manufacturers wanted them back, since photos of them in use were part of the articles.

It was fun for about 12 years, but woodworking was never a favorite thing for me. It paid the bills, though.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
56. I bet it was a jointer
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:17 PM
Jul 2014

Jointers make routers and router tables seem like sweet music by comparison.

Brother Buzz

(36,215 posts)
72. Not the joiners I've used years after year
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:54 PM
Jul 2014

If a joiner is sharp, really sharp, noise is not an issue.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
83. Jointer, not joiner
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:06 PM
Jul 2014

You damned well better keep your jointer knives sharp, or it could take your hand off. Still, sharp jointer knives will do little to lessen the deafening cacophony that will ensue the moment the board hits the knives.

Jointer:



Joiner:

jehop61

(1,735 posts)
6. HOA rules usually win in the end
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 01:52 PM
Jul 2014

But perhaps like-minded neighbors could donate a small amount to him so he could set up shop in a small commercial area? Then more folks would be a part of this good works.

Response to Archae (Original post)

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
8. In most HOAs, amending the covenant is nearly impossible
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 01:55 PM
Jul 2014

In most HOAs, participation by the home owners is so dismally small it is impossible to get enough votes to alter the covenant.

Response to MohRokTah (Reply #8)

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
24. Precisely.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:39 PM
Jul 2014

If the home owners don't get involved, the Board has a free hand in making the decisions. No Board is going to grant a variance for a carpentry shop, especially when doing so could violate city zoning codes.

Response to A Little Weird (Reply #9)

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
43. Exactly! Ours is great! I'm amazed at what they do for so little fees. The community really looks
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:02 PM
Jul 2014

nice, there are lots of boats and all here, owners are required to follow simple rules ... like keep the grass cut, no parking on lawns, reasonable house colors, keep bushes relatively well trimmed, and no outrageous noise. I'm a pretty reasonable person and I found the rules pretty reasonable. Living in a resort area, sometimes some places get pretty wild, we have lots with no HOAs, and some of them I think a lot of people would probably want to avoid. Anyway, it was made perfectly clear to me what the reasonable rules are, and pretty much, if you can't go along with us, then this is probably not the best place for you. I was OK with it all.

Response to RKP5637 (Reply #43)

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
105. Your HOA sounds a lot like ours. What is not to like? I asked myself.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 09:15 PM
Jul 2014

Then I found out that the Association sometimes makes a point of "Forgetting' to send the bill for the HOA dues. The yearly dues. Granted they' re not much - about $ 450 I think.

But when an elderly person falls behind, their home can be seized for back dues, and sold out from under that person's feet! Really really wicked practices, and not limited to our HOA!

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
106. That, is really horrible! Actually, thinking back, I did have sort of an incident once ...
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 09:28 PM
Jul 2014

I paid the HOA and all, and their bookkeeper never recorded my payment.

About 6 months into the new year they sent the gestapo out to see why I was not paying. Well, this guy was an old asshole. I was in the wrong no matter what I said.

Turned out their bookkeeper had fucked up. She was exceptionally apologetic, but the asshole jerk was not, but never saw him again.

Thinking about what you said, imagine if they had started proceedings without my knowledge. I do think some HOAs need better restraint imposed on them by the local government. From what I've heard sometimes it seems their authority supersedes that of local government!

Response to RKP5637 (Reply #106)

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
136. Boy, am I glad you caught their mistake. But imagine that you were forty years older,
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 02:59 PM
Jul 2014

And in a nursing home for six months. You may well have come out of the nursing home to find your home and land gone forever.

And the older jackass you describe seems to be ubiquitous to these HOA's. Almost like the guy is cloned by HOA's across America for that very purpose of intimidation.

Response to truedelphi (Reply #105)

TBF

(31,922 posts)
19. Ours is pretty bad -
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:28 PM
Jul 2014

but we lease so we're not stuck here forever or anything. Also they were pretty cool about letting renters join the conversation here (we get to participate in the HOA website and forum etc). I've noticed that they will usually pick one big thing to tackle each year - like forcing folks to mulch or pressure wash or something. Some years they are worse than others so I guess it depends on who is on the board.

Maybe the veteran could agree to use the loud power tools during certain hours. My guess is that he's waking up babies in the afternoon or something (wholly unintentional on his part but it would really annoy the young moms in neighboring houses). Or if he's got his furniture sitting out in the front yard drying after varnishing or something that might annoy some people. Keeping things in the backyard usually helps here, and keeping pets inside so barking at weird hours doesn't annoy people. Usually things work out if people have some consideration for their neighbors.

TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
20. Fuck a HOA, the agreement is with the owners not the property
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:32 PM
Jul 2014

When the property is sold the HOA can come to the new owner and if they have a beneficial offer or they just want to then the new owner can sign an agreement with them but the agreement on the property dies when the original owner is off the deed.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
28. You're wrong.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:45 PM
Jul 2014

When you close on a house in a HOA you MUST sign the agreement or the home sale CANNOT be closed. HOAs have the right of lien so attempting to close a sale without the new owner agreeing to the covenants of the HOA is like closing on the sale without the old mortgagors being involved.

TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
63. I know you are correct on how the scam is set up, I'm talking about how it should be
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:31 PM
Jul 2014

If the HOA is so wonderful then the new owners will be happy to join but if they don't see it that way they can pound sand until they have a new owner to pitch.

I'm not against freedom of association, if you want to have a neighborhood club then feel free just don't think that because I purchase a property that I am obligated to join it because freedom of association also means I am free not to associate with you and play by your reindeer games.

If you want a government then buck up and incorporate, otherwise we should be free to say kiss my ass. As currently functioning, I believe these constructs are an abomination and the result of a bought out government. How the fuck are you going to give a club such legal authority? Sometimes beyond the authority of a locality.

DURHAM D

(32,595 posts)
66. What in the world are you on about? nt
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jul 2014

The main purpose of an HOA is to pay common expenses. All HOAs have common expenses.

TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
133. If they were limited to the financing of the maintenance of common areas then I'd object less
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 07:19 AM
Jul 2014

but they aren't and the way to care for the commons in any event is to levy taxes and you can gain such authority by incorporating.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
80. You have no clue what a HOA is.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:59 PM
Jul 2014

It is NOT a "neighborhood club".

HOAs are nonprofit corporations that own common property and charges dues to its members for the upkeep of that common property. They also may or may not have rules regarding the privately held property within the HOA. All rules are clearly defined in the covenant.

The only scammers in the situation are those who fail to read and understand the rules and then violate the rules.

Don't want to be in a HOA, don't buy a house in a HOA, because when you do buy a house in a HOA, you are also purchasing a share of the commons owned by the HOA.

This is very basic private government. Don't like the idea? Don't buy into a HOA.

TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
124. No, I prefer to buy wherever I elect and if the neighborhood club is attractive then I will join it
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:34 PM
Jul 2014

and if not they can hope I change my mind or sell and the next person likes what they are pushing better.

And since I don't believe in private government, my preference is for such constructs to be defanged, if they want to be a government they can incorporate, communities do it all the time. Government is public by definition in our system, this is an abomination.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
125. Psst, here's a clue...
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:48 PM
Jul 2014

If a house you are considering purchasing is in a HOA, you CANNOT close on the house without signing the HOA agreement. So you'll never have to worry about it because you have excluded yourself from ever being capable of purchasing a house in a HOA. All HOAs have a right to place a lien on a home covered by the HOA, so you cannot purchase such a house without becoming a member of the HOA.

TheKentuckian

(24,949 posts)
132. Which I object to, why should some unelected private government control commerce to such a degree?
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 06:53 AM
Jul 2014

All kinds of laws are in effect, doesn't mean I have to support them or cannot oppose them.

Buddy of mine bought into one of these scams and the rules set before there were any home owners at all, he was the first or second home completed and occupied in the development and changes then require some unrealistic quorum to change anything making the developer the unelected governing body of the neighborhood.
That is nonsense, even if you buy into the abomination, which I don't. If you want governmental authority then incorporate.

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
134. The Board of Directors is elected once the development reaches a level of ownership.
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 07:43 AM
Jul 2014

Here it's 75% of homes sold.

And if you don't read the rules before buying, you only have yourself to blame.

Warpy

(110,912 posts)
39. Yes, if he soundproofs
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:57 PM
Jul 2014

the HOA won't have a leg to stand on since it doesn't alter the appearance of his house, annoy the neighbors, and it's a hobby, not a business. It's either that or rent a cheap storefront, we know there are a lot of empty ones out there.

One good thing about my weird and often dangerous inner city neighborhood is that there is no HOA, just a group of people who will show up banging pots and pans all night if they think you're running a shooting gallery, meth kitchen, or crack house. Other than that, things are loose around here and yes, you do get to use car seats on the front porch while you save up for something better.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
126. Military bases often have "hobby shops" where people can go and do that kind of stuff.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 06:56 PM
Jul 2014

That's what he should look into; maybe he could get some help with his project from like-minded people there...

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
46. Yep, my thought too. I've used a lot of power tools in my time, and a number of them
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:05 PM
Jul 2014

I would not want running next door to me, HOA or not. And some power tools are at a frequency they go right through just about anything unless properly sound proofed.


DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
31. Nazi Dictatorship? Really?
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 02:47 PM
Jul 2014

I don't think you know the first thing about what life under the Nazi dictatorship was like.

Zambero

(8,954 posts)
64. Yes, a very bad analogy
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:32 PM
Jul 2014

People that move into HOA-affected neighborhoods agree to abide by the rules when they sign their closing documents. And those rules can be reviewed beforehand. A Nazi dictatorship would tend to skip such formalities.

Hatchling

(2,323 posts)
44. I wish there was an Hoa like that here.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:02 PM
Jul 2014

Late evenings and weekends, always the power tools roaring from the house two buildings over from a home based carpentry. Can't stanf it and no I can't afford to move.

RKP5637

(67,032 posts)
50. Yep, I was by a house the other day, the guy sets up power tools under a tent in front of this
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:09 PM
Jul 2014

garage and makes furniture. My first thought was WTF, how obnoxious to those for several houses/blocks around.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
51. It's ironic that these neighborhoods are always full of right-wingers who hate government.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:11 PM
Jul 2014

Yet they accept these rules, which are far more restrictive than any municipal government would have. Plus you pay fees to some corporation, who certainly cares more about profit than anything else.

Where my parents live, you can't even change your internet/cable, so they are stuck with the shittiest one out there.

I hate HOAs. They are antithetical to democracy and freedom and only exist because local governments have been captured by "small-government" types.

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
61. I have avoided homeowner's associations like I would avoid living in a leper colony
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:24 PM
Jul 2014

not that I dislike lepers themselves. After hearing horror stories from anyone who has ever been involved with them, I think I'd prefer to live in a tiny unabomber style shack in the woods with no plumbing or electricity.

Zambero

(8,954 posts)
62. Important to know HOA CC&R's in ADVANCE of moving into a neighborhood
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 03:26 PM
Jul 2014

They are legally binding, and once a homeowner signs closing documents they are agreeing to abide by them. In most instances, HOA boards and property managers have very limited authority to bend the rules, and can be taken to task (or court) by other HOA members if enforcement is not occurring. While I can sympathize with this guy, the sound of power tools grinding away day in and day out would not set well with many neighbors who pay hundreds in HOA dues per year expecting some semblance of quiet cooperation from their neighbors. Aside from neighborhood-specific HOA rules, most city ordinances would not preclude a carpentry shop at one's residence, and if a resident wishes to conduct such a business then he or she should locate it in a neighborhood that allows such activities.

kiva

(4,373 posts)
74. I hate HOAs. That said,
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:13 PM
Jul 2014

he knew what he was getting into when he moved in to the place. I could have bought my house in a 'nicer' neighborhood, a newer house with fewer things to repair - I didn't because I refused to live with an HOA.

For a few years I lived across the street from a guy that did some sort of woodworking - he had saws running off and on 5-6 hours per day, generally 4 days per week. It was somewhat annoying but a) it was a across a pretty wide street b) he only did this after 9am and never after 6pm, and c) I didn't spend a lot of time outside in my yard.

Today I live with closer neighbors who have no sense of time and I spend a lot more time outside, so I wouldn't be happy if one of them decided to set up a workshop and spend hours each day running saws and lathes. If I wanted to live with that, I'd have bought a place zoned commercial.

I agree that he should try to see if he can either get a donated space or ask for help paying for a place to work.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
78. Soundproofing or dampening, and filters for the smelly
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:41 PM
Jul 2014

woodworking chemicals would also work, but are probably too cost prohibitive for this individual.

 

SheilaT

(23,156 posts)
77. Zoning laws?
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:39 PM
Jul 2014

He's got a furniture making business in a residential neighborhood. Donating the furniture doesn't make it any less of a business.

And did the HOA come into existence AFTER he moved in? How about he abides by the covenants he agreed to.

All of you who hate HOAs, don't move to a place that has them.

The River

(2,615 posts)
79. Misleading Story.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 04:57 PM
Jul 2014

Lake of the Pines is 40 miles from Sacramento and 48 miles from Beal AFB. Hardly "nearby".
There are plenty of places he can set up a "shop" and not bother his neighbors.
I'm about to buy a home in a similar development nearby and I welcome rules that reign in
thoughtless neighbors who never think about how their actions impact others.

Notice how it's all about him doing something nice for "the military".
How about thinking about your neighbors? Be nice to them and go rent a shop that's
zoned for that kind of noisy activity.




Archae

(46,262 posts)
86. So once again the "media" distorts a story.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:13 PM
Jul 2014

I'm not surprised, I based my view of the HOA on the fact they refused to comment, and from previous horror stories involving HOA's.

http://gawker.com/5830257/the-horror-of-homeowners-associations

The River

(2,615 posts)
96. For Every Horror Story
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:02 PM
Jul 2014

There are way more "thank goodness" stories that you never hear about.
You'd be surprised at some of the crazy things home owners try to build or
do on their property.

I worked with zoning boards, developers and HOAs as a part of my profession.
Sometimes they have petty dictators but not as a general rule. For the most part
they just want to protect home values, common spaces, environment and ensure that home
owners can have "the quiet use and possession" they are entitled to.

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)
94. He did the right thing-got a permit from the HOA
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:56 PM
Jul 2014

for a home-based business manufacturing furniture in his garage. It's actually at the hobby level-he builds approximately 2 pieces of furniture a month-but the HOA insisted he get a business permit, which he did.

The HOA is now citing noxious activities as the problem (odor and noise) which they define as "an unreasonable annoyance or disturbance to NEIGHBORING residents".

It's not the neighbors who are complaining. In fact a dozen of them support him continuing to make the furniture pieces and wrote letters of support.

Kocher is appealing his case to the HOA board on Aug 5th. Should be interesting.

Iggo

(47,487 posts)
99. Yeah, I thought that was kinda low.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:40 PM
Jul 2014

Hiding behind "Aw, the troops! The troops!"

Left kind of an ugly taste.

 

bunnies

(15,859 posts)
93. I stuck my hand in fire and I got burned. The fire is a Nazi for burning me.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 05:41 PM
Jul 2014

Makes total sense.

 

Ultra_Blue

(7 posts)
97. How dramatic....
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 07:29 PM
Jul 2014

I'm a vet and if the guy is breaking the rules he agreed to then what does he expect?

Pros and cons to HOAs and that is a big con.

 

awoke_in_2003

(34,582 posts)
104. What gets me is people that join HOAs...
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 08:33 PM
Jul 2014

then complain that they have to follow the rules of the HOA. Why would anyone willingly join one?

 

MohRokTah

(15,429 posts)
110. I'm on the Board of Directors of my HOA.
Sat Jul 26, 2014, 10:16 PM
Jul 2014

We have little in the way of actual rules beyond our initial covenant. The only rule enacted relaxed the fencing restrictions because the very first fence installed in the HOA was granted a variance as to height, style, structure, and color by the intial Board made up of the contractor building the place.

Beyond that rule, we're more concerned about paying for repairs on our alleys, snow removal in the alleys and public sidewalks and upkeep of common areas.

We leave all other enforcement up to the village and call the non-emergency police number when residents let their grass grow too long or park incorrectly.

 

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)
131. I couldn't find one within the area I wanted to live that didn't have one
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 09:09 PM
Jul 2014

I no longer live there now and I am soooooooooooooooooo glad. I don't like busy bodies. I like the country where you leave your neighbor alone unless they need help. Then you give it.

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
116. I wouldn't accept a HOA-subject home as a gift.
Sun Jul 27, 2014, 01:37 PM
Jul 2014

mini governments entirely dedicated to self-interest empowered to tell the neighbors what to do under penalty of law.

melm00se

(4,974 posts)
135. HOAs are a microcosm of government
Mon Jul 28, 2014, 08:02 AM
Jul 2014

HOAs operate under a covenant that the current homeowner(s) may not have been party to it being drawn up.
HOAs indicate a board that is elected by the membership
Most HOAs rarely reach a majority of participation

see a pattern?

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
141. Homeowners Associations are UN-constitutional & oppress people at the local "Small'-Gov. level.
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 01:02 PM
Jul 2014

HAs started because of segregation. Here they are continuing to oppress Americans to the point where an HA can fine persons thousands of dollars and take away their home.

People should be able to work from home, earn a living in and on their own home property.

To follow the States & Federal, health and sanitary laws should be enough.

brooklynite

(93,871 posts)
142. HOw are they unconstitutional?
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 01:05 PM
Jul 2014

They're a voluntary organization of homeowners who make decisions through representative Democracy. Nobody making you live in the community if you don't like the format.

BTW - any Co-op apartment building can do the same thing.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
145. HAs prevent -some- people from earning a living from their own home.
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 01:25 PM
Jul 2014

HA discriminate, as a person with a computer based business can earn a living anywhere. Even in homeowner controlled locations that restrict _most_ home small businesses.

Local restraints on commerce for the OP.

brooklynite

(93,871 posts)
146. The City of New York also restricts your ability to run a business in a residential building.
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 02:41 PM
Jul 2014

Many communities do.

Not unconstitutional.

brooklynite

(93,871 posts)
149. So was child labor.
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 04:35 PM
Jul 2014

If you don't like regulations, the way to deal with it is to work to change it through the political process, not grouse about it on a blog.

brooklynite

(93,871 posts)
143. This would fit nicely on a Tea Party blog...
Thu Jul 31, 2014, 01:16 PM
Jul 2014

"How DARE a Governing Body I had a role in selecting tell me what to do!"

archaic56

(53 posts)
150. the thread shows how little empathy humans have these days
Sat Aug 2, 2014, 03:48 PM
Aug 2014

just like then TEa Party, there is prejudice on the left. THis is why the HOPIS advise staying in the middle of the river and avoiding extremes.
when the ptbs have you hating each other as opposed to those who create the divide.. well, might as well giving up hoping for peace love and understanding

i Live to find common ground. I do not live to exploit the old Roman divide and conquer

HOAS are about the DIVIDE they sure are not about respecting individuals rights to live as they choose. Nor are they about what is good for all.

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