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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFrance's Jews Flee As Rioters Burn Paris Shops, Attack Synagogue
France's politicians and community leaders have criticised the "intolerable" violence against Paris' Jewish community, after a pro-Palestinian rally led to the vandalizing and looting of Jewish businesses and the burning of cars.
It is the third time in a week where pro-Palestinian activists have clashed with the city's Jewish residents. On Sunday, locals reported chats of "Gas the Jews" and "Kill the Jews", as rioters attacked businesses in the Sarcelles district, known as "little Jerusalem".
Manuel Valls, France's prime minister said: What happened in Sarcelles is intolerable. An attack on a synagogue and on a kosher shop is simply anti-Semitism. Nothing in France can justify this violence.
Religious leaders gathered for an interfaith service on Monday to call for calm, and Haim Korsia, the chief rabbi of France, and Hassen Chalghoumi, the imam of Drancy shook hands on the steps of the synagogue.
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/07/22/france-jewish-shops-riot_n_5608612.html?comm_ref=false
JI7
(89,172 posts)but security reasons.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)and congratulating the French for their anti-Israel stance.
I believe you can be against Israeli actions in the occupied territories and not be an anti-Semite, but that combination rarely seems to be the case with our European friends.
Hekate
(90,189 posts)...which is as vile as what is going on in Gaza -- it's only more vile because of anti-Semitism's deep and apparently ineradicable roots in Europe.
Ever since those 3 Israeli teens were kidnapped I haven't been able to get the Irish anti-war song "There Were Roses" out of my head: "It's an eye for an eye and another eye, till all the world is blind."
I condone none of this, none.
malaise
(267,785 posts)we can expect nothing more than "It's an eye for an eye and another eye, till all the world is blind."
When almost 150 children are slaughtered we can expect nothing more than "It's an eye for an eye and another eye, till all the world is blind."
Just screaming Anti-Semitism is a convenient self-serving response - this is a reaction to the genocide taking place in Gaza in much the same way as the world turned on the Nazis for the horrific genocide of European Jews.
I watched Regev spewing his BS on GEM$NBComcast this morning while the other camera was fixed on the destruction in Gaza. Israel has lost all credibility on this one.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)that are the bulk of the attackers, but the muslim immigrant and ethnic communities.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)conservaphobe
(1,284 posts)And violently attacking people just because they're Jewish.
mylye2222
(2,992 posts)I since yars, do make a difference between Israel authorities, and its people and jewish religion. And I am ashamed at whats happened, and very afraid of my country's immediate future.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Nobody wants to acknowledge what their friends in the anti-Israel camp really think when push comes to shove.
anti partisan
(429 posts)It is simply not a discussion worth having at the moment. You can't choose who happens to jump on your ship, you've just got to make sure that you choose the right ship. And if some Nazi types happen to jump on, that is very unfortunate, but if you were on the right ship before, you're still on it.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)anti partisan
(429 posts)I should have made it clear that I don't think this news should be glossed over. These anti-Semitic attacks are disgusting and should be condemned at every chance possible.
They just have no place in a discussion about Gaza because they are two completely different topics, although Israel's actions surely are helping anti-Semitism flourish, which is a huge reason why a lot of people who care deeply for the state of Israel also condemn their actions.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)aren't relevant in a discussion about the international outcry about Gaza?
It's a discussion you'd rather -understandably - run from because it shows what underpins a great deal of anti-Israeli sentiment.
anti partisan
(429 posts)Anti-Semitism is deeply wrong.
Israeli policy is deeply wrong.
Wrongs should always be opposed. This is my opinion, and you are entitled to yours. But please don't try to use one wrong to try to shroud the other wrong.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)I see one as a thin veil of justification for the other. There's a strong streak of anti-Semitism in the European Left, and I think that's the primary motivator for these sorts of protests.
On the other hand, I don't get the same vibe from most American protestors. This strikes me as more a European phenomena.
anti partisan
(429 posts)I think there is a higher Muslim/Arabic population in Europe who have suffered a lot and may be likely to unfairly attribute Israeli policies to "the Jews", as well as a nationalistic/neo-Nazi element, and there do exist situations where haters protest alongside the actual leftists. However, one of the prerequisites for being on the Left is to oppose all kinds of racism/anti-ethnic attitudes. It's obviously unfortunate that there is this kind of vile hate present at demonstrations which are intended by the majority element to OPPOSE hate, but I don't see that as a reason not to protest. It is sadly reducing the effectiveness of the protests as well, and I do not like that trend.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)leftstreet
(36,076 posts)It's like assuming the Mexican-US border child refugee crisis, and the atrocities in the countries they've come from, is relevant to the racist US nutters protesting immigration
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Not by a long shot.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Gee, when can we get around to talking about a bunch of Jew-hating nutjobs burning down Jewish property and Jewish people afraid for their lives?
Your reply is just disgusting.
Un-fucking-believable.
Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)to pretend that "anti-Likud" or "anti-expansion of territories" is equivalent to "anti-Israel". Nor is it really helpful to pretend that opposition to the Israeli government's actions is monolithic, or that the actions of some protesters who may in fact be anti-Semitic represents "the anti-Israel camp". It's just as intellectually dishonest as lumping in all opposition to US military interventionism with the Pat Buchanan/Ron Paul/Justin Raimondo far-right, or pointing to the violence instigated by "black bloc" anarchists as representative of "the anti-war camp".
herding cats
(19,549 posts)What the hell is wrong with these people? This reminds me of when people here were attacking anyone they thought was Muslim after 9/11.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)whose bravery and firm stand against Israel were being lauded yesterday here at DU?
They're filthy anti-Semite Jew-haters, that's what's wrong with them, and their presence is all too predictable in this area.
anti partisan
(429 posts)Because the vast majority is from the left, not the radical right.
A small minority of the pro-choice movement has taken their position because they want to keep the population down for what they feel are inferior minorities. However, it is very easy to support a woman's right to choose despite these disgusting racists. Ditto for opposing Israeli policy.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)as on the European right.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)That is a horrible untruth.There is no such group in the pro choice movement.
anti partisan
(429 posts)Google that on Stormfront and you will see there are a lot of folks there who are pro-choice because "the Blacks and Mexicans are going to overtake the whites otherwise". A small segment of the pro-choice movement but a segment nonetheless.
Response to anti partisan (Reply #18)
Post removed
anti partisan
(429 posts)anti-Semites are welcome in the movement protesting Israeli policy.
You really don't get that, and as a result claim I "hang" at Stormfront? What is wrong with you?
herding cats
(19,549 posts)Some forget, or never really understood, there's an entire global population of people who have been persecuted for nothing more than being Jewish for centuries. Sadly, it takes only a spark to reignite that persecution in certain people. The last thing any person on this board should ever want to encourage is anti Semitic actions of any kind. No matter what anyone may think about Netanyahu and his policies, there's no excusing what these people did to innocent people in France today.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Why are the French so anti-semetic? What is wrong with France? Of all the wars on earth, why do the French take sides against Israelis? No anti-Russian riots?
applegrove
(118,006 posts)Codeine
(25,586 posts)they let shit like this post stand
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1134&pid=71731
". . .majority of Jews around the world will abandon any morals they have just so they can support the country Israel."
That's acceptable discourse now at DU.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Behind the Aegis
(53,823 posts)But, it is reality, nonetheless.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)Did you happen to notice the replies to that post? The fact that the reactions of other DUers to that post was disgust and disavowal? Why would you say that the post was "acceptable discourse" when no other DUers agreed with it? I think that's rather dishonest.
JI7
(89,172 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I think it is a bit dishonest to pretend that it was disavowed by DU.
It was not hidden and it was largely uncontested.
Codeine's description of it being considered "acceptable discourse" is justified and demonstrated well.
scarletwoman
(31,893 posts)I'm sorry that a jury didn't hide it - I would have voted to hide, had I been on a jury for that post. DU juries are notorious for their crappy judgement, so I don't see why one would draw any broad conclusions from any particular jury vote.
I just don't think it's fair to judge DU as a whole by one asshole's post, and by one jury's failure to hide it.
Furthermore, since the post in question was made in the I/P group, which is not exactly a popular hang-out for probably most DUers, why should DU as a whole be judged by how many DUers contest such a post? I personally have avoided the I/P group for many years, just like I avoid the Gungeon. There are just some places a great many of us prefer not to go.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)But if asked the question: Is it acceptable discourse on DU, I would have to conclude that it is largely acceptable since it was not "not accepted".
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)At best some just remain silent, but this is actually where the most damage occurs, remaining silent gives the purveyors of anti-semitism the impression that theirs is the popular position, that we are all on board. It is the black and white dichotomy, something I will say, I see just as much on the left as the right. As if supporting Palestinians requires one must oppose,or at least remain silent in their support of Jewish people and of Israel.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)If I DARE to suggest that before Americans condemn Israel as the next thing closest to Nazis, they should consider that they have killed 100 times or 1,000 times the numbers of Iraqis and Afghanis 7,0000 miles away, then I MUST be pro-killing of Palestinians.
It is madness and you are right, it is a larger symptom of the BS dichotomy that Americans have had beaten into their skulls by our political system and the natural human predilection for black and white thinking.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)I think that's rather telling.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)I've seen that and worse here on DU - I've been here a very long time.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)But it was just so damned blatant -- no dog whistles, no carefully-couched buzzwords, just an out-and-out condemnation of Jooooz.
Sigh.
egduj
(804 posts)I didn't think it was that high, though.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Behind the Aegis
(53,823 posts)Apparently, even discussing French Jews being attacked is "Just screaming Anti-Semitism is a convenient self-serving response." Apparently, all Jews are responsible for the actions in Gaza, according to that poster.
this is a reaction to the genocide taking place in Gaza in much the same way as the world turned on the Nazis for the horrific genocide of European Jews.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)Unfortunately, I couldn't say what I really wanted to because it would have been locked.
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)According to Al Jazeera, these protests in Paris with violence against synagogues and hatred against Jews was primarily conducted by Arabic speaking people in France and organized by young French Muslim activists. France has the largest Jewish population in Europe and also the largest Islamic population living in a relatively small area. It's estimated that approximately 700 young Muslim men with French passports are fighting for ISIS in Syria and Iraq. The friction between Arab and Jew is apparently growing in Europe. For whatever reason, whether it's the fault of French society with its stratification and rigid economy or their own refusal to fully integrate within French culture, these young Muslim groups have some very angry young men. Probably it's just a few extremist hotheads however that infiltrate these demonstrations and turn them violent.
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/7/19/paris-gaza-police.html
"...Paris police on Saturday besieged protesters who violated a citywide ban on pro-Palestine demonstrations. Organizers of the protests said the police crackdown was aimed at further disenfranchizing the nations often politically and socially marginalized Arab and Muslim communities. The police attacked us, Amelle El Amraoui, 28, said from the streets of the protest. Despite the ban, imposed the day before, Amraoui defiantly joined the demonstration that sought to decry the ongoing invasion of the Gaza Strip, which has left at least 333 Palestinians dead over 12 days. Five Israelis have also been killed in the conflict.
At least 35 of the roughly 5,000 protesters who flouted Pariss freshly imposed protest ban were arrested, organizers said. Numerous others were injured, they said, when police charged them with teargas and Tasers. Amraoui said that one protester had been stabbed by a gang of political opponents.
(...)
Local French media reported that protesters had thrown projectiles at police and characterized Saturdays events as race riots, but protesters charge that the police were attempting to provoke violence to legitimize their restriction of French Arabs freedom of expression. The demonstration started out peacefully, and then the police started throwing gas bombs, said Houria Bouteldja, one of the organizers and a spokeswoman for the anti-racist political movement Les Indigenes de la Republique The Indigenous of the Republic. They are trying to invent a reason to continue to ban the demonstration, said Mehdi Meftah, another protest organizer.
Netherlands based European Decolonial Network started a petition on Saturday to preserve the protesters' right to demonstrate. The petition has garnered nearly 200 signatures from across Europe, North Africa and the United States. For many at the protest, images of the police cracking down on French Arabs defying the law to decry what they say is imperialism harkened back to the Parisian polices infamous crackdown on demonstrations for Algerian independence in the 1960s. On Oct. 17, 1961, during one of those protests, police shot what some historians say was well over 200 protesters and buried them in mass graves.
Right now everyone has a smartphone. Everyone has camera. They can't use the same violence they can't throw us in the Seine," Meftah said. "The similarity here is that the Arab, the Muslim and the black is going to public and expressing solidarity with a people under siege and there's a continuation of colonial policies of repression.
Of course we cant compare the scale of the violence, said Aya Ramadan, another protester. But it's evident that today when we see a mass of Arabs and black people coming together over the Palestinian cause, it's an image that's reminiscent of the images in the '60s. It's relatively the same thing: Arabs supporting an independence movement abroad. And they face violent repression. ..."
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Palestine is facing major problems with its minorities and integrating them into Arab society
conservaphobe
(1,284 posts)Pathetic.
ismnotwasm
(41,916 posts)It quite literally makes me sick.
What the hell is wrong with people?
Behind the Aegis
(53,823 posts)...they managed to get Jews barricaded into a synagogue which they tried to burn down. Thankfully, it didn't happen, but when the ban was announced, Jews were blamed for it because "we had insiders causing the conflict (meaning the protests)." There was even an OP stating as much!
ismnotwasm
(41,916 posts)The potential for historical mimicking Is here, and very real, and it terrifies me.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)This shit needs to stop, but I doubt it ever will. Humans are very good at killing each other over religion. Every religion calls itself a religion of peace and yet almost all have past and present violent periods. Muslims, Jews, Christians....all three use violence and oppression in the name of god while proclaiming they are religions of love and peace.
As time goes on I believe more and more of John Lennon's words in Imagine.
"Imagine"
Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one
- John Lennon