General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSantorum's little girl has been taken to the hospital.
Story here http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/04/06/11056965-santorums-ailing-daughter-taken-to-hospital
THat poor little girl. This sounds serious.
RandySF
(57,627 posts)I hope she gets well.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Response to uponit7771 (Reply #2)
Post removed
RegieRocker
(4,226 posts)ProdigalJunkMail
(12,017 posts)some people cannot wait to piss on any expression of faith...it is like siren-song to them; they cannot resist it.
sP
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)I can't believe the above post was hidden, but here's an article of proof, of a truly scientific study of the power of prayer, or lack thereof.
LiberalFighter
(50,496 posts)They don't work. There is no factual support. If they did a simple prayer by those close to the individual should be more than enough.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)girl at death's door. Sad. I hope she recovers and if not, then I hope for peace for the ones who love her.
calimary
(80,693 posts)I too hope for peace for the ones who love her. Nicely said, roguevalley.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Lionessa
(3,894 posts)".....Some patients were told they may or may not receive intercessory prayer: complications occurred in 52 percent of those who received prayer (Group 1) versus 51 percent of those who did not receive prayer (Group 2). Complications occurred in 59 percent of patients who were told they would receive prayer (Group 3) versus 52 percent, who also received prayer, but were uncertain of receiving it (Group 1). Major complications and thirty-day mortality were similar across the three groups......"
LiberalFighter
(50,496 posts)they would compare the results of those needing surgery and receiving it and those relying solely on prayer.
But if they were using the study they conducted shouldn't it require patients have the same surgeon. Ability of a surgeon could be enough to be the difference.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)I think probably that would not be an underlying issue. But who knows. It is also darn close to a reasonable margin of error being only 7% higher in those that knew they were being prayed over, so I'm more likely to remember it as being nearly a draw, but that even shows that it doesn't help which is all that the poster requested proof of.
atreides1
(16,046 posts)But then again, maybe they do.
wandy
(3,539 posts)me for example, you do something else.
Each to their own.
My hopes for the child. All I can give.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)there's nothing to lose by sending good thoughts and prayers.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)that's scientific fact. So I am not willing to dismiss the potential power of prayer.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)stage 4 cancer and INTERNAL GANGRENE last year. I KNOW IT WORKS!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)cancer survivor myself...almost 5 years now. i have the utmost respect for people who battle that beast. mine was stage 2 breast cancer, and treatment was minimal. but my little sister died from inflammatory breast cancer in 2006...18 months before i was diagnosed. she was so incredibly brave and fought it to the end. kudos to you, my friend.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)passed over from IBC, now that's a beast and a half. I'n not out of the woods completely but as I tell people, I can see the meadow. I know prayer works and I will never believe anything other than that. If prayer brought me through, ( as we all know, medicine can only do so much), I KNOW prayer can work wonders. Thanks again, Noitextatique!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)i know it works too...saved my sanity, if not my life. you are on my list
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)However, lots and lots of people with stage 4 cancer pray and have people praying for them, and they don't live. So it doesn't work for them.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)I had stage 4 cancer AND gangrene INTERNALLY. So, don't know what to tell you. Perhaps, (God forbid that you EVER have to go through anything like I have had, I would wish it only on the most vile and murderous evil in the history of Humanity), then you'd understand. I know that there are people who had cancer that was nowhere near as serious as mine was and they're gone and I'm still here.
EVERY ONE OF THE DOCTORS on my team said that's the only thing that explains it. That I shouldn't be here and it appears at this point, that my cancer has just "stopped" hasn't grown at all since a scan that was done right after i got out og hospital...LAST FEBRUARY!
lpbk2713
(42,696 posts)I'm just glad that you did indeed bounce back.
I always read your posts whenever I see them. I consider you a valuable contributor to DU.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)others who had less disease that I had. It hasn't been easy but I know that even according to my doctors, there no medical reason for me to be here in the condition that I am and the only thing that can explain it is for whatever reason. Prayer was the thing that got me over the hump. It's not something I would wish on my worst enemy. Well, maybe my worst enemy thanks again
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)we come here with our time laid out. We live our life, learn and then the time comes and we go. some can hang on and change their time. They have things to do and they survive. It could also be that they were supposed to survive whatever because that is part of the learning on their card. You don't die without agreement. Even prayers can't change that. But they can comfort your path ahead. I don't believe prayers sincerely offered are ever wrong. Belief be damned, for me. The universe is so vast and amazing that anything is possible. I will offer prayers to all on this list that have suffered. A meditation on love for you is never wrong.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)MY DOCTORS and I had a load of them told my husband that they DID NOT EXPECT ME TO LEAVE HOSPITAL!! At most, I was only supposed to survive to LAST MARCH!! Don't care what you say. I KNOW prayer helped me. My doctors are still shaking their heads.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)mentioned in the above post to which you responded your sympathy for that poster's loss?
Just curious how you rationalize it helped you and perhaps her, but not her sister? Did more people pray for you, were you more deserving, did God love you better for saving your life or her better because he brought her to heaven.
Please explain, I don't understand the ego behind thinking prayer helped you but didn't help someone else.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)NEVER IMPLIED ANY SUPERIORITY. Just expressing my sadness. I'm still fighting this disease, good grief..WHAT THE FUCK DOES EGO HAVE TO DO WITH IT? Did you even read what I was speaking to NOIRTEXATIQUE about.....Wow, You're way out of line..!!!
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)I'm sorry the concept makes you defensive and uncomfortable. Rational thought often feels that way, though.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)Hopefully, YOU will never have to fight this beast. It's not fun or theoretical. It's not a matter of ego. DO YOU REALLY THINK I WANT TO DEAL WITH THIS? REALLY??!! I was pointing out something to SOMEONE OTHER THAN YOU who understands and NEVER, ONCE SAID ANYTHING THAT WOULD CAUSE ANYONE TO THINK SOMEHOW I WAS BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE.
I get pissed when I'm accused of something I haven't done and it's especially uncomfortable when it's coming from someone I neither know nor was addressing. Believe and think what you want to. I can only speak for myself.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)while clearly being aware that others didn't respond to prayer help.
Again, terribly sorry being asked analytically critical questions about your belief in prayer and it's supposed help. It helped you, you claim, why didn't it help others'? Why didn't help Santorum's daughter from being cursed with this disease in the first place, I have no doubt they prayed for a healthy child.
So I continue to ask, why does prayer supposedly help you, but not others? Why some but not others? You claim to believe, so please explain this confusing issue? Instead you continue to simply scream about being asked to think and reply. Go figure, and then we wonder why so many atheists feel intellectually superior to believers.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)sort of atheist here that seem to delight in being disgustingly obtuse. WHY WOULD YOU ASK ME WHAT I BELIEVE IS GOD's CHOICE? If you don't believe, knock yourself out but I have no obligation to prove anything to you. I know what I've gone through and experienced. Asking me why Isabella Santorum is ill has got to be the most assinine thing I have ever been asked. Why the fuck is what my experience , WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU, supposed to be able to give me information about a child I DON'T know and have no contact with in any way.
You know, SOME of the Atheists here on DU whine about being hated and I just wonder if some of the disdain has to do with the way you attack people who aren't saying anything to you. The atheists I have met DO NOT GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to be offensive and disrespectful of others objective and subjective experiences. I honestly DON'T care what you think. I know what I feel and believe and you might find yourself in my shoes someday and find that you will have to rethink your position. What's the saying? There's no atheists in a foxhole.
Lionessa
(3,894 posts)Just more anger and hatred from you. Interesting, and I'm the atheist, go figure.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)life they were supposed to live and learn something about survival, life and death and other concepts and others weren't. Sometimes its that simple.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)love that I send into the universe matters and helps. Good for you, Ecumenist. I cannot imagine your pain but you have my prayers. I personally know they work. To each his own. When we pass on we will all know the truth.
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)It is the power of suggestion that works in prayer, magic, hypnosis and psychology. I don't know why anyone would deny it.
Glad to hear it worked for you.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)lumberjack_jeff
(33,224 posts)Get well soon.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Education momemt, this is what the kid has.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0002626/
gateley
(62,683 posts)bigtree
(85,916 posts)for her full and speedy recovery.
sinkingfeeling
(51,276 posts)die before or during birth. Bella Santorum has beaten the odds so far. If she survives to be a teenager, it will be a miracle.
undeterred
(34,658 posts)I'm overwhelmed by your empathy...
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)an aged adult who's lived a full life though, isn't it? Most humans who are capable of empathy understand that.
Ecumenist
(6,086 posts)sakabatou
(42,082 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)a way out. I respect his dedication to that little girl. Hopefully she will make it through this newest crisis.
CTyankee
(63,769 posts)Arkansas Granny
(31,483 posts)Cirque du So-What
(25,812 posts)WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)gateley
(62,683 posts)aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)We're not barbarians here unlike other other unnamed political websites where the children of political figures are attacked whether they are sick or not.
MinneapolisMatt
(1,550 posts)Best wishes.
handmade34
(22,755 posts)no parents should ever have to see their children suffer I hope she is not in pain!
CTyankee
(63,769 posts)It is beyond sad to think of a little child suffering...
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)This must be an agonizing time for her and her family, and I hope she will be well again soon, and if that is not possible, that she suffer as little as possible.
Regardless of how much we want everyone to have the same access to health care as the Santorums and their ilk, I cannot be anything but happy that she will be given all possible care. Every child deserves that, no matter their circumstances.
RainDog
(28,784 posts)these situations can be really difficult. He's fortunate that he's able to have a private nurse and hospital equipment in their home, but, as we see, even that is not always enough.
cali
(114,904 posts)I can't help but think of all the families who don't have the resources that the Santorums have and that Santorum himself could care less about those families with ill children and lack of resources.
CTyankee
(63,769 posts)That maybe his stone heart will be moved and he will become a more caring person for those in need of health care, and less caring for people who just want to make money.
But my political motives are irrelevant. There is a sick child here. That right now is all that really matters or should matter.
cali
(114,904 posts)this moment in time. I can't believe you meant that. And it is not about politics. It's about human suffering. As I said, I wish Bella well, but she is not the only child suffering. I'm glad she has such excellent care. I only wish so many other children who need such care had it.
CTyankee
(63,769 posts)but it seems to me that is just now comes down to caring for Bella. I care for her. I really do. It doesn't mean I don't care for any other child with her condition...
Ms. Toad
(33,915 posts)and his views have not changed.
He lost a son to a bladder condition, and Bella was born (and has been living all her life) with a condition which is nearly always fatal. I do bereavement photography as a volunteer, and we are routinely called in advance to be present for the birth of children with this condition because (if born alive) they are not generally expected to live more than a few hours.
After living with both monumental challenge to the health of his children - with Bella for more than three years, he still seems not to understand that he is one of the lucky ones who has access to both interventional and palliative care.
I would have hoped it would change him politically - but I think that is (at this point) a vain hope.
I do hope for whatever is gentlest for his little Bella.
handmade34
(22,755 posts)I wish only the best for this little girl!!
we are a much better society when we can transend some things for a time... this picture is so precious
demtenjeep
(31,997 posts)This little girl has had such a hard life in her 3 short years. I pray she doesn't suffer.
Bluerthanblue
(13,669 posts)comfort and healing.
LeftishBrit
(41,190 posts)cr8tvlde
(1,185 posts)as his love shines out ... even though I abhor his politics.
This is only an opinion, but running for president in an off year with a minority (referring to percentages of voters) political viewpoint, puts immense pressure on the family, his wife, his other children and the little girl, as well. Why? But then I thought, perhaps he needs the campaign money which can, I think, legally pay his home expenses? Maybe it positions him better for a local political job that can pay what it must cost for his family?
Still, very sad and wish them the best.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)Chorophyll
(5,179 posts)And I think her dad should stay home and hang out with her. Sincerely.
nolabear
(41,915 posts)Some things transcend.