What does DU think of the idea of of "fat shaming" and fat acceptance?

[Kurska]

Brief explanation of what I'm talking about follows: Opposition to fat shaming and support for fat acceptance essentially comes down to the idea that being heavy isn't anything to be ashamed about. People in favor of this movement point out that women especially are unfairly targeted and ridiculed because of their weight.

I can see where they are coming from. I mean, frankly it really isn't any business of anyone elses business how much you weigh. Just because you're heavy doesn't' mean you shouldn't be respected and unless you're going to date the person your definition of beauty is pretty meaningless when it comes to other people.

Yet, I'm worried about the health effects that it might have. I know it is possible to be healthy as larger sizes, but we have to admit that we're seeing an increase of health problems from the gradual bulkening up of America.

So what do you think? Is it wrong to attack people because of their weight? Is there a way to convince people to lose weight for their health without shaming them? Is it really our place as a society to try and force people to lose weight if they are happy as they are?

[Fridays Child]

1. "Is it wrong to attack people because of their weight?"

What is your answer?

[Kurska]

4. Well if you want me to be honest.

Ain't my body. Ain't my problem. Ain't my business.

So I wouldn't judge someone who was heavier for those reasons.

[Skittles]

7. that's pretty fucking sad

[Kurska]

8. Um.. how? n/t

[Skittles]

10. imagine if we said that about racism, homophobia

"ain't my problem, ain't my business"

[Kurska]

13. What? I'm saying that in relation to other people's bodies.

I'm saying if other people are overewight it isn't my body, so it isn't my problem and it isn't my business.

I don't think you're understanding where I'm coming from. I'm against fat shaming.

On edit: tried to clarify my original post to avoid any misconceptions.

[Skittles]

24. ahhhh

well OK then

[treestar]

75. That's a terrible comparison

Fat people come in all ethnicities, etc. It's judging them as an individual, not as a group.

Fat shakers are skinny people who think it'll never happen to them. It will.

[Thirties Child]

95. It happened to me.

At 22 and 5'6", I weighed 115 and had a 23" waist. At 48, when I quit smoking and went into menopause, I weighed 132. Now, at 79 and 5'5", I weigh 220.

If you looked at me you wouldn't guess my numbers, wouldn't guess my low cholesterol, my good blood pressure, my low blood sugar. You might think my bad back was from the weight, wouldn't realize it's from a short leg and going barefoot instead of wearing a lift all the time.

My vanity hates what it sees in the mirror, but apparently not enough to starve.

[PasadenaTrudy]

168. Same here...

Menopause is clobbering me. But, I'm not going to give up things I enjoy just to look a certain way. All my bloodwork is fine for now.

[uppityperson]

102. Are you really comparing being overweight with racism and homophobia?

Or are you comparing weightism with racism, homophobism?

ETA, I was very unclear here, my apologies.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025241530#post162

[Skittles]

145. nice to be so judgemental

not EVEN gonna bother here

[uppityperson]

146. Naw, Skittles. Being judgemental would accuse you of something rather than ask

Seeking clarification is all. My apologies if poorly worded.

[uppityperson]

163. My apologies, I was very unclear with what I wrote.

Edited and tried to clarify here.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025241530#post162
I took offense at your reply to Kurska as I thought you miunderstood what they meant also. Another day, reread, edited, trying to clarify, apologies.

[catbyte]

160. Not so fast, uppityperso. I am overweight due to nerve damage that prohibits me

From engaging in any meaningful exercise & the meds to combat the pain keep these extra 30 pounds on me. I hate it, and have tried everything to lose it, but there it is. We are NOT fat, sloppy, lazy pigs.

Gack. Even here we can't catch a break. What a shame.

[uppityperson]

162. I think you totally misunderstood what I meant, my apologies for being unclear

Weightism is wrong. Judging people by their weight is as wrong as judging by their skin color, sexual orientation, gender, age, etc. Prejudging, bigotry, hurts everyone.

I apologize as I obviously did not make that clear. The beginning of this subthread, Kurska, I took to mean that they meant that also, would never judge based on weight. Then skittles said that's sad, which is what I was questioning. Rereading it all, I can see how what K wrote and the I wrote could be taken opposite of what I meant. My apologies.

[catbyte]

170. I'm so sorry about that! I should NEVER post when I'm tired.

[uppityperson]

171. Neither should I. What makes sense to me doesn't always come out when posting tired, quickly.

[Fridays Child]

9. So, what's your answer?

Is it wrong?

[Kurska]

11. I thought I was clear, but let me clarify.

Yes, it is wrong to attack someone because of their weight and it makes me uncomfortable when it is done to even complete jerkwads like Chris Christie (who I am sure would do it to other people if he was the same mind in a skinny body).

[Fridays Child]

17. Okay.

Your first response wasn't clear. This one is perfectly clear, however. Thanks.

[Kurska]

18. Yeah, I tried to make it more so.

I can see how someone might have been confused by it.

[Skittles]

26. thanks

[Fridays Child]

29. Yes. And I agree that people should never be attacked because of their size.

Not Christie. Not even Rush.

[Skidmore]

142. So why did you decide to devote a thread to this?

Oh, and my opinion is that it is no one's business but the individual's and perhaps the doctor they see.

[Kurska]

169. Because I wanted to know what other people think :3 n/t

[MADem]

2. It's wrong to attack people for pretty much anything, least of all a physical trait.

Probably the best way to "sell" weight loss is to go straight to the exercise is good for you and healthy eating exhortations. Skip the numbers on the scale, skip the 'attractiveness' angle, don't even go there.

It's not really anyone's place--least of all a stranger's--to offer unsolicited advice or observations. If someone asks for help, that's a different situation. If they don't ask, though, silence is golden.

There's always leadership by example, and not enabling bad behavior. "Will you give me a ride to the ice cream shop?" could, for example, be answered with a "Sorry, I'm late for the gym/ I've got a meeting/date/problem with my car."

Weight is a function of how many calories go in and how much fuel you burn. If you burn less fuel than you take in, you're gonna have a bigger gas tank.

[eridani]

35. Fat levels are not bank accounts

Reduce caloric intake, and the number of calories you "need" will decrease. Burn more fuel and you adapt to become more efficient at energy storage.

[MADem]

43. I didn't call them bank accounts. I called them gas tanks.

And if you switch from a mack truck to a subcompact, you'll use less gas, sure.

[eridani]

44. Yes, but not because of the size of the gas tank.

Because of the greater mass of the truck and its engine. Smaller tanks just get filled more often.

[MADem]

48. Well, a person is like a car that can transform into a truck.

The more you put in the gas tank without driving it around, the next thing you know, that Honda FIT is a Ford 150.

[eridani]

49. No way to make a Honda FIT into a Ford 150, no matter how much gas you put in

I really don't think the analogy works very well.

[MADem]

50. We're talking about people doing the transforming--not the cars.

The analogy is to the fuel/food, not the cars. Unlike motor vehicles, if you overfuel a person and don't run him/her, the FIT person grows to the size of a FORD truck--and is about as fuel efficient.

[eridani]

53. Not necessarily

People with high stores of brown fat can waste many kilocalories worth of ATP.

[MADem]

60. In my scenario, the FIT that sits in the garage guzzling gas and watching reality television

turns into a Ford truck!

[joshcryer]

91. At one point you start creating more fat cells.

Once fat cells reach about 3 times their default size they split to form two fat cells.

Once your body has those extra fat cells they tend to get filled up more easily.

[treestar]

77. +1

There are tons of factors. Exercise does not allow you to eat more and it have no effect on your weight. Exercise is good, but it does not necessarily promote weight loss.

[wryter2000]

87. That's not my impression

Exercise raises your base metabolism, I believe, and helps your bod to burn fat. I can tell you, I've never lost a pound without exercising.

[treestar]

112. I had the opposite in that I exercised

but never lost a pound until I dieted!

I still exercise - need it for mental health.

[JI7]

135. but most people still have to eat well for exercise to matter , it helps for those who deal

with mostly small amounts of weight gain.

but some people think one could eat things like pizzas, burgers , donuts everyday etc and exercise will just help to take it off.

i would say exercise would help if one mostly eats healthy and controls calories. but may want a little treat .

[ForgoTheConsequence]

152. Yes and no.

http://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-living/weight-loss/in-depth/metabolism/art-20046508



People with more muscle burn more calories. I need about 3000 a day to maintain my weight.

[conservaphobe]

90. No. Calorie deficits will ALWAYS result in weight loss.

Period. End of story.

[GliderGuider]

138. Ah, but the question is, what's a deficit?

It varies from person to person, after all. Consuming the wrong foods will make that deficit feel like starvation. Consuming the right foods will make achieving that deficit pretty much a non-issue.

[eridani]

148. True, but eating less does not always result in calorie deficits

Not if your metabolism adjusts to cancel out the effect.

[JI7]

3. we shouldn't be shaming and ridiculing people, and it has nothing to do with whether one thinks it's

healthy.

i think it's just an excuse to make fun of someone when bringing up the health problems. people trying to justify their horrible attacks.

just look at how the ones people often make fun of for weight are those we don't like. liberals with limbaugh and christie, right wingers with michael moore. lets not pretend any of it has to do with concern for their health.

[Puzzledtraveller]

23. ^^this^^

very well said.

[MADem]

45. Limbaugh is the KING of making fun of people based on their personal appearance.

I think an exception can EASILY be made for him, frankly.

WARNING--there's that "B" word in this post; I can't cut it out of the clips without losing the meaning; readers, take note of the context and if you can't STAND that word, stop reading now.


I remember shit like this:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2124301/Chelsea-Clinton-tells-Rush-Limbaugh-fun-looks-13-comparing-dog.html

'Rush Limbaugh said I looked like a dog': Chelsea Clinton reveals how talk show host made fun of her looks when she was just 13 years old

And this:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/19/1075920/-Rush-Limbaugh-s-Bitchy-Double-Standard

...Limbaugh sexually insulted Sandra Fluke 53 times in three days. It was a lot more than two words. And those 23 years have included plenty more sexist words, as I document in my book, The Most Dangerous Man in America: Rush Limbaugh's Assault on Reason.
Amazingly, Limbaugh actually denounces Ludacris for calling Hillary a “b-i-itch.” Obviously, Mr. “two words in 23 years” would never do that.

Except that he did. In 2008, Limbaugh referred to Hillary Clinton as a “b-i-itch,” pretending to “translate” Obama's view of her. That same year, Limbaugh also referred to Clinton as a “b-i-itch” by comparing her to One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest character Nurse Ratched: “a lot of people think that she's Nurse Ratched. Nurse Ratched wasn't really human. Nurse Ratched was a mean b-i-itch.” And Limbaugh was certainly one of those people who thought Clinton was the “b-i-tch” Nurse Ratched. In 2007, Limbaugh declared, “Hillary Clinton is Nurse Ratched!” He also said Hillary Clinton "sounds like a screeching ex-wife.” He compared her looks to a Pontiac hood ornament. He's spread rumors that Hillary is a lesbian, and accused her of being mannish.

Nor is Hillary the only woman Limbaugh has publicly called a bitch. Limbaugh called Friends of the Earth international climate campaigner Catherine Pearce a "B-I-itch" after watching her criticize President Bush's State of the Union proposals on CNN. And on March 8, a few days after making his fake apology to Sandra Fluke, Limbaugh attacked a female Washington Post blogger for her “b-i-itchy opinion” critical of Rush. That was three days after Limbaugh complained about the degradation of popular culture in America: “The word bitch is common.”

Bitch is certainly not the only sexist insult in Rush's vocabulary. He's called Nancy Pelosi a “ditz” and a “complete airhead.” He called Kathleen Sebelius, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, a “ditz.” His nickname for Senator Mary Landrieu (D-LA) is "Cute Little Baby Fat.”

Much more where that came from at the link.

[wryter2000]

89. +1000

[TorchTheWitch]

96. that's exactly what it is

Bravo.

[m-lekktor]

103. exactly! nt

[delrem]

5. Anything calling itself "fat shaming"

is self-indulgent self-satisfying self-approval at the expense of others.

I find people who go in for that kind of thing repugnant, and I speak as one who has been targeted by that abuse. So I know all the secret ways of it.

So maybe I'm "biased", if to be targeted is to be biased.

[notadmblnd]

63. I'm right there with you. And since I was a 10 pound baby, I must have over ate in the womb

It just kills me that some of these people think they have it all figured out.

I'm 55 and at 5'4 and 206 pounds, I don't have sugar, I don't have high blood pressure and I don't have high cholesterol. I don't take a regimen of prescription drugs daily. My husband who passed 11 years ago at age 54 was 6 ft 145, lifted weights and still died of heart attack.

[Skittles]

6. there's a word for the concept of not fat shaming - it's COURTESY

fat-phobes are DISGUSTING

[The Straight Story]

12. Smoker shaming, gun shaming, religion shaming, walmart (shopping shaming), home schooling

Buying large sodas, etc and so on.

Shaming sucks all the way around but it is an effective way to judge others and try to convert them to your belief system.

And before someone jumps in to say "Hey, some people have issues that cause weight problems" yeah, I can agree. And some people are poor and shopping the cheapest place keeps food on the table, some grew up around guns or are old and disabled living in a bad area, part of your culture may be religious, smoking is known to help people with mental issues, etc and so on.

So if it is fair to shame on one personal issue don't see why those same folks aren't on board with them all.

[BainsBane]

21. You're conflating all kinds of different subjects

and points of concern as though they were the same. They are not.

[KittyWampus]

65. IMO, there's the "Big Picture" being indicated in that post. Societal pressure to conform

Societal pressure for individuals to conform to real or perceived healthier/safer behaviors.

Eating is an intensely personal act. A lot of our eating behavior is emotional and also habitual.

But then quite a lot of our behavior is also unconscious and largely a matter of habit.

So any input from the outside is abrasive when it touches on habitual behavior.

Smoking, driving with no seat belts, making meat the focus of every meal.

On the one hand we should respect people's choices but on the other hand we need to acknowledge that a lot of people don't even make a fully conscious choice and engage in behaviors that ultimately effect others around them.

And btw, this includes me.

[alp227]

110. So where would you draw the line between acceptable criticism and shaming? nt

[madinmaryland]

147. That's one of the most bizarre posts I have seen in a while...

People who are obese have not made a choice to be obese, while those who do what you list have an ABSOLUTE choice in what they do.

AND YES>> I WILL SHAME THE GUN-FUCKING-NUTTERS AND THE RELIGIOUS NUT JOBS. They made that choice all by themselves.

Shame on you. A personal issue has nothing to do with something that is hereditary.

[House]

14. Fat shaming is unacceptable.

However, being obese isn't something that's okay either. There are so many health risks involved with being obese, including: high blood pressure, diabetes, high risk for heart attack and stroke, high cholesterol, cancer, etc. etc. Telling people it's okay to be obese is basically telling them it's okay to die at an early age.

[Kurska]

15. Where is the line between fat shaming and saying it isn't okay to be obese.

That is my question.

[Fridays Child]

22. Could you define "not okay to be obese?"

Define "obese," too, just so we're all on the same page here.

Are you suggesting that there is a point beyond which people should consider intervening in the lives of obese individuals? If so, are you referring to family members, friends, acquaintances, strangers?

Do you think you should say something to obese people about their weight and you want to know how you should do that?

Are you similarly concerned about people with other disorders?

[Kurska]

27. Defining what it means to send the message "not okay to be obese" is what I'm asking.

The poster seems to want to send the message that it isn't okay to obese. I'll work off whatever their definition is obese on that one. What I'm wondering is how to do you do that without straying into the realm of fat shaming?

[Fridays Child]

31. Which poster? I thought you were the OP. Are you referring to another thread?

Health care providers should send the message to their patients that obesity is a dangerous but treatable condition. Family member should support the healthy food decisions of their obese relatives. The government should support making nutritious food more affordable and more available to low-income Americans. The rest of us should work on accepting all of our fellow humans as being much more than what they look like and much more than the disorders they struggle with.

[polly7]

99. I have friend who has been morbidly obese most of her adult life.

She has no self-esteem, treats her body like a garbage disposal and is fully aware she's probably the most unhealthy person even she knows. I do try (very! occasionally) to get her to see there may be things she can do to feel better physically, she's been hospitalized for depression - she's told me many times she's tired of being laughed at and feeling sick all the time, (she just learned the kids at the high school had had a bet going, whoever lost it had to go to her store and kiss her on the cheek. How sad is that?) - I don't pester her about it, but I don't feel shame for reminding her I'm here, and so are many others, if she wants help to try to change anything about improving her situation. It scares me to think of losing her.

For others who could possibly also be considered obese or vary from what society calls 'normal' (whatever that is) it's just not my business. But of course I worry about the person who doesn't seem able to function well, just as I do a very thin person or anyone else who comes across the same way.

[treestar]

78. It's their issue

Nobody needs someone else to inform them of their weight!

The information is out there.

And they don't owe others medical information, so where's the point in judging?

[JI7]

30. so not making fun of someone means one thinks being obese is just great and healthy ?

[MADem]

46. If you're not a doctor and the fat person in front of you isn't your patient, don't say anything.

That's where the line is. You don't have to "help" the person with your comments about what the person knows already. What, do you want a pat on the back for your powers of observation, or what?

"Gee, you're fat!"

Fat person: "OMG, I didn't know! When did this happen??"

How is that shit helping?

I think that the jury is already back on the "obesity is harmful to your health" schtick, so you really aren't "educating" anyone by repeating it.

If you want to be helpful, when your fat friends visit, put out more crudites and fewer chips and pretzels.

[LeftishBrit]

159. The difference between a moral and medical judgement.

One can make health recommendations, without shaming people who do not follow these recommendations.

Moreover, some obesity is itself the result of medical problems (e.g. some medical drugs have this as a side-effect).

[LanternWaste]

164. Which is pretty much the same as asking "where is the line between vulgar insults and rational...

Which is pretty much the same as asking "where is the line between vulgar insults and rational criticism."

[uppityperson]

104. Do people have the right to be unhealthy?

[newcriminal]

117. yes

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

16. Rather than shame them it might be better to scare them

I think people should eat as much as they want and not be attacked for it. But for their own good, I think the government should provide leadership regarding the dangers of being overweight and inform the public. According to the American Diabetes Association, being overweight is an important risk factor for developing type II diabetes. Diabetes according to them kills more people each year than AIDS and breast cancer combined. Two-thirds of diabetics will die of heart disease or stroke.

[JI7]

28. do you think people don't know the problems to health ?

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

33. I don't think they do

As someone who was fat and developed type II diabetes I know I didn't realize the full scope of the dangers from being overweight, from kidney disease to heart disease, until I was diagnosed with stage three kidney disease and diabetes. I can only truly speak for myself but I would guess that most of the people with serious weight issues don't completely understand the danger or put it in the back of their minds. The government is constantly informing people about myriads of dangers and that should include health problems. I don't think we should shame people or force them to lead a healthy lifestyle. But I do think the public needs to be informed just to cut through the intense brainwashing by McDonald's to Olive Garden to Outback to Black Angus Steakhouse and the other hundreds of food marketers in our media. I like the fact that Michelle Obama has made obesity her number one issue in her campaign for healthier eating. Don't you? It's the fact that most people are completely uninformed of how dangerous obesity is that Michelle Obama needs to reinforce her message. The American Diabetes Association wouldn't exist to the extent that it does if everyone knew exactly what effect obesity had on their bodies and followed a healthy lifestyle. Again I don't want for force, attack, or shame anyone. But I want my government to provide leadership in informing the people of dangers, from new viruses to other health risks like obesity.

[JI7]

37. but Michelle Obama did it without shaming anyone, and it was about being healthy

she included herself and everyone when speaking of it.

the thing with something like diabetes is that it's genetic also and there are people who may not look like they have weight problems but may still have a high chance of getting it.

i do agree that it's about informing people. things like early education helps. and encouraging being healthy from an early age so the habits stay as one gets older.

and health care is a big thing also so people can see where they are and what areas they need to improve in.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

40. Yes type I diabetes is usually genetic and often occurs in childhood

It usually doesn't matter how much someone weighs. Type II like I have usually occurs in middle age and can involve a genetic pre-disposition, but the several doctors I've seen have told me over and over that I can control it with metformin, exercise, and drastic weight loss. They are in agreement that my weight was a major contributing factor.

[sorefeet]

70. They don't know

for sure. Just like my buddy yesterday. He said his wife has to go in for back surgery, again. I said ya know back surgery is a lot of a guessing game and they can ruin you for life. I think if she dumped about 100 pounds it would do more for her than risking back surgery, again. Then she can reevaluate her problem. Until then it makes no sense to me. I didn't shame anyone but I let him know that his wife is 100 pounds overweight, open your eyes and get honest with the person in the mirror.

[eridani]

32. If that worked, why is anyone overweight at all? n/t

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

34. Look at just five minutes of commercial television at random

It's a non-stop parade of food. I've lived in Europe and there was virtually no tv advertising of burgers, pizza, steakhouses, buffalo wings, KFC and the rest. It's brainwashing to the extreme.

[eridani]

36. Followed by a non-stip parade of thin women n/t

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

38. Bulemia and anorexia are unhealthy too

if that's what you're getting at. Moderation is the key to a healthy life.

[eridani]

39. I'm saying that our advertising culture idealizes thinness even more than food. n/t

[KittyWampus]

66. Ah, but our corporate culture doesn't provide us w/the food that helps keep us thin.

As a erstwhile vegan, let me tell you how hard it is to find decent, nutritious food outside my home.

Heck, it's not even easy to find decent food in grocery stores. It's like a freaking treasure hunt to find the beans amidst all the chips, cookies, crackers, soda etc etc.

[MADem]

47. I think "inform" beats "scare" any day.

Positive PSAs with messages about good eating habits and exercise are better than "YER GUNNA DIE!!!!" bellowing. Hell, if "YER GUNNA DIE" ya might as well go out eating an ice cream bar!

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

51. I think the scaring comes automatically with the informing

because the health risks are real and they are scary, for anyone who bothers to listen to all the information. Positive "feel good" PSAs about the joy of eating vegetables and avoiding carbohydrates and LDL fats fall on deaf ears when the option is delicious burgers, pizza, and fries, unless the negatives about shortening your life are stressed. Full information is necessary. Just like those anti-cigarette ads where cancer patients talk through voice boxes, the message about the joy of being smoke free goes just so far unless you bring up the dire consequences of smoking and the suffering it can entail.

[MADem]

172. Some people think "It won't happen to me." I think the "scare" message just turns people off.

And some people just don't care. They believe they are immortal.

Hell, Yul Brynner died of cancer, and he did the best "scare commercial" of them all--he talked from the grave...but people still smoked, they regarded it as a lottery--some people bite the bullet, others don't....

[Marrah_G]

84. We already know the risks

Just like a smoker knows the risks.

People often lecture while trying to be helpful and honestly, it just makes the person feel worse and reach for some food.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

137. I don't know that the President and First Lady would agree

Otherwise, President Obama wouldn't be proclaiming a National Childhood Obesity Awareness Month on an annual basis and hosting annual obesity awareness dinners in the White House inviting children and parents to bring attention to the problem. In fact, Michelle Obama's ongoing campaign "Let's Move" has as its number one goal the informing of parents of the dangers of obesity, lack of exercise, and healthy eating. I'll bet there are very few parents who realize that hardening of the arteries starts in childhood and that once calcium lines our arteries it can't be removed by any known medical procedures. Exercise, avoiding foods that raise blood sugar (it isn't just sweets), and eating the healthy type of cholesterol and not the unhealthy kind can avoid the deposition of plaque in the arteries. Do you think most people know and understand what high density lipoprotein is compared to the dangerous low density lipoprotein? In her many speeches on obesity awareness, Michelle Obama has repeatedly mentioned that parents aren't aware of the dangers of childhood obesity and how to prevent it because the modern family is so preoccupied with other things. If everyone knew of the full extent of the dangers of obesity and the fact that the damage largely can't be undone later in life by exercise and weight loss (unlike the cessation of smoking because once the plaque is deposited in the arteries, we might get thin on the outside but on the inside it's pretty bad) the American Heart Association, the American Diabetes Association, the American Kidney Association among others wouldn't have to do so much outreach on the dangers of obesity and poor diet.

[BainsBane]

19. So the concept of consenting adults

Doesn't apply to their own bodies, only what they do to other people's bodies? There are lots of things that cause health problems, and few people give the slightest damn about any of them. I don't for a second buy the health excuse for people who think they have a right to shame or pass judgment on overweight people. Is their some reason people can't mind their own business? How is it that women aren't supposed to object to rape porn as entertainment, yet it's okay to pass judgment on the size of someone's thighs? What people do with their bodies, including how big their are, is precisely none of anyone else's business.

[Puzzledtraveller]

25. bravo!

[gvstn]

41. My mom who is now in her 70's

Always remarked on the weight of others. "I'm disgusted by a belly like that on a person his/her age." Implying that she wouldn't love someone who was fat or it was a sign of moral failure. I internalized this although I never really saw what was wrong with it if the overweight person seemed happy/nice. I realize that my Mom's reaction to overweight people was like most criticism a way to control her own actions (demonize those that have your own failings to help you avoid them).

Now, as I am older, I have to say that when I see an overweight person I think more of their health than just pretending I don't notice and giving them a smile. I do just give overweight people a smile and pretend I don't notice and try to be extra nice to a stranger to compensate for too may strangers being unnecessarily mean but I still think about how it would be healthier if they were at a better weight and why they might be in the situation they are in. Teenagers in particular seem the ones that would most benefit from some type of intervention and capable of understanding the situation but it is not my place.

As far as I am concerned all the fat-shaming is instigated by insurance companies that see this as a crisis in relation to their profits. Less fat people means less costs down the road. Same as smoking being vilified because the profits of many insurance companies (and distribution of state's medicaid dollars) now outweigh the profits of a few tobacco companies.

I say don't attack anyone. I think promoting cardio fitness in schools would be a great way of helping kids with their weight. Almost all colleges have free fitness centers, if schools also had fitness centers then kids could choose or reject them but they would be available and helpful to all kids whether they were athletically inclined or not. You don't have to be good at sports to do cardio training and it would give an opportunity to kids that wanted to lose weight but didn't have support or a good avenue at home.

[eridani]

52. More fat smokers would be good for insurance companies

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/05/health/05iht-obese.1.9748884.html?_r=1

Smokers and the obese cheaper to care for, study shows

LONDON — Preventing obesity and smoking can save lives, but it does not save money, according to a new report.

It costs more to care for healthy people who live years longer, according to a Dutch study that counters the common perception that preventing obesity would save governments millions of dollars.

"It was a small surprise," said Pieter van Baal, an economist at the National Institute for Public Health and the Environment in the Netherlands, who led the study. "But it also makes sense. If you live longer, then you cost the health system more."

In a paper published online Monday in the Public Library of Science Medicine journal, Dutch researchers found that the health costs of thin and healthy people in adulthood are more expensive than those of either fat people or smokers.

[gvstn]

69. Very interesting.

This is news to me. I've always cynically chalked these campaigns up to actuarial tables. This gives me something to chew on that may not be so bitter a pill.

Thanks!

[MattBaggins]

127. O.F.F.S really?

[eridani]

149. Yes, really. Fat smokers die at younger ages. Dead people don't need health care n/t

[Hofbrau]

42. The Tumblr variety are nuts...

Don't know any in real life.

[Shankapotomus]

54. Fat shaming is wrong

I see nothing wrong with "fat" acceptance either.

The problem arises for me when an actual food addiction is in denial and it starts to adversely effect the health and behavior of the person addicted and the lives and health of the people around them. Now you could be thin or overweight and do this but I know people who constantly are looking out for ways to interject food into every event. And because they are using interaction with other people as an excuse to keep eating, they necessarily have to drag other people into their addiction as pawns. It's so obvious and transparent that a food addiction exists and yet they either don't see it themselves or think no one else will. It becomes annoying after awhile when every time out has to have a meal attached to it like that really wasn't the sole reason for going somewhere when it actually was the whole time.

I probably just pissed off a lot of food lovers both thin and hefty. Sorry.

[Pholus]

55. The theory is concern about "health problems" but in practice it seems to work more like this:

http://www.refinery29.com/2014/07/70809/body-shaming-graffiti-carleigh-oconnell

http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/144382/news_anchor_responds_to_fatshaming

http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2014/04/25/Chrissy-Teigen-slams-fat-shaming-bullies-in-Twitter-photo/9501398447174/

[Warren DeMontague]

56. "I'm busy enough running my own life- I don't have the time, much less the desire, to run yours."

Is it wrong to attack people because of their weight? Yes.

Is there a way to convince people to lose weight for their health without shaming them? Why?

Is it really our place as a society to try and force people to lose weight if they are happy as they are? No.

[Tetris_Iguana]

57. Well

1) Don't shame people because of their weight, it's rude and unbecoming.

2) Change has to come from the inside. IME, outside pressure just adds stress to that person's life. Stress that often leads to low self esteem and more eating.

3) The government should pass laws to cut down the availability of processed unhealthy junk foods while subsidizing healthy choices. Maybe even an obese surcharge to healthcare might work.

But ultimately if someone is going to eat themselves to an early grave, there's really no stopping them.

[Behind the Aegis]

58. Body shaming is bad. Period.

It doesn't matter if the person is overweight (as opposed to "fat&quot or underweight (as opposed to "skinny&quot . We get all kinds of messages from media, family, friends, and others as to what were are "supposed" to look like. As a gay man, I know what I have been told I should look like...I fall very short of those expectations.

[one_voice]

101. +1

[Behind the Aegis]

157. Thanks!

Sadly, body shaming affects both genders and is becoming more of a problem in the male community than it has ever been. Bulk up, lose weight, shape up, work the upper body....it goes on and on. The only real difference I personally see, is men don't always seem to take those messages to heart, except maybe athletes.

[NWHarkness]

59. "but we have to admit that we're seeing an increase of health problems"

Before we admit that, let's keep in mind that the vast majority of the research done on the subject was paid for by the diet industry.

I see an awful lot of correlation being taken for causation on the subject.

[Hekate]

61. On an individual basis: None of my business. However, our food supply has been adulterated

Part A:
My mother hated herself for being overweight and projected this out to others continuously in my presence. "She looks like the broad side of a barn." Or, of one of my best college friends, "It's so tragic; she lives behind a wall of fat and she just keeps gaining more." Of herself: "The doctor won't even listen to me because I'm a fat gray-haired menopausal woman." (Well that last part may have had some validity: she managed to grow a massive goiter before she met a new doc and he noticed it. Having super low thyroid certainly didn't help her state of mind, or her weight.)

I don't know how I rose above this, but I did. I pretty much vowed I'd bite my tongue off before I started such a litany about myself and others. I don't care if my friends are overweight or not to this day and we are now all in our 60s. Some are thin, some are not. I acknowledge their struggles, if they have them, if they bring it up. One of my friends finally joined a 12 step program (OA) and ultimately told me that I am the one person she felt safe telling this to. I wanted to hug her; it felt like such a validation of our friendship.

Part B:
The nation's food supply has been adulterated, and to manufacturers/advertisers food and food-like substances are simply products they must sell more and more and more of. Not to earn a living like an old-time farmer, but to satisfy their shareholders' bottom line. It's really sick.

I mean it when I say the food supply has been adulterated. The amount of additives in every can and jar is staggering: table salt and other sodiums, sugars of many types (cane sugar, sucrose, lactose, fructose, maltose, and the lab-produced Frankenstein of them all: high fructose corn syrup), and acids (acetic/vinegar, citric, lactic, sorbic, benzoic and propionic).

Each and every one of these started out as a preservative (who needs botulism, right?) and flavor enhancer, but it's the amount and combination that have become a problem. Why do we need high fructose corn syrup in everything? Well, it's cheap, and gives a flavor boost to even salty foods, and has the added benefit (to the manufacturer) of slamming your brain so you want to come back for more but don't quite know why.

Part B continued:
Whoever doesn't know by now that advertising really really works has been living in a cave in Tibet. Unhealthy products have been created in laboratories, polished up by ad agencies, and pushed to the public 24/7 like drugs. They're cheaper and more available than real food -- and certainly more attractive. Fads come and go, but the nation gets fatter and fatter and that includes our kids. Just take a look at any elementary school class photo from the 1950s and 1960s and compare it with an equivalent photo of 30 kids today. It's appalling. It should scare you. It scares me. I only have two grandkids, and Type 2 Diabetes is epidemic in their generation. In my parents' and grandparents' generations that was a disease of old people, and then it turned out that in my generation half my cousins had it by their late 40s and early 50s, and my siblings too.

Conclusion:
On an individual basis just stop being cruel and judgmental. Nobody likes being obese, and they're not bad people with moral failings. Dick Cheney is a bad person with moral failings -- keep that part straight. However, on a national basis we have to get a grip. And in my opinion that means the federal government has to get involved, just like they did with tobacco.

Postscript:
This is long, but obviously simplified. Feel free to write your Congresscritter, though.

[customerserviceguy]

62. Should make no difference

between how you treat a person over the color of their skin, or the amount of it. And once upon a time, society thought it was good to change gay and lesbian people for 'health' reasons.

Accepting people despite differences is a mark of a progressive person, no matter what those differences might be.

[gwheezie]

64. I admit to fat shaming Rush

But I also shamed his tiny penis, which is probably wrong also.
I'm not proud of it, the few times I've done it, I felt like it was wrong.
That being said my daughter was fat, she was also a type 2 diabetic and had hypertension at 35. She always knew she was fat, shaming her was not effective, if anything it made her feel more miserable. She got scared when her kidney function tests were abnormal. She lost 80 lbs after changing her lifestyle but I couldn't do it, I couldn't do what she has to do to maintain her hgbAIc below 6. She is vegan and works out 6 days a week. She never has alcohol, too many wasted calories. She feels great but she is constantly focused on her weight. She is 5ft 9in and weighs 175lbs. She has maintained this for about 3 years but still thinks she needs to lose more weight. She looks great, does triathalons. She has thought about her weight every day since she was 12 years old and was called fat. People who are fat know they're fat.
I am over weight but I don't think of myself as fat. I was thin most of my life so I never had that I'm a fat girl thought about myself. I gained weight after age 50 and stopped doing my sport. I didn't spend my life knowing I was fat and people telling me I was fat. I think there is a huge difference when you grow up thinking your fat and you gain weight later in life. Not that I don't care about adults but I like what Michelle is trying to do with kids is the right idea, focus on being healthy at an early age.

[KittyWampus]

67. Food we eat has a huge emotional component. And our choices are largely habitual.

It is a societal issue as well as a individual one.

And society has always and will always put pressure on its members to conform or change according to whatever standards are deemed healthy or desirable.

Unfortunately, corporate input has done quite a lot to influence what we choose and what we want when it comes to eating. The vast majority of people (including DU'ers) are not even aware of that influence and will strongly defend it. Perversely, limiting a corporations behavior ends up being perceived as limiting an individual's.

Take smoking- there was a concerted effort to make smoking less prominent in mass culture. Education helped as did social pressure AND laws limiting where people can smoke.

And now with Vaping, there's a much healthier alternative.

With food, people pretty much fall into habits from childhood and don't even really think about it.

And what is available in the stores, fast food and what is heavily advertised influences what we eat.

IMO, America needs to FORCE corporate culture to start providing tasty, nutritious food and advertise for it.

The sad excuses for healthy food that come out of McDonald's (for instance) always fail because they make a half assed attempt so they can say "they tried".

So glad Michelle Obama has gotten the ball rolling. But the resistance to what she is doing helps illustrate the depth of the problems.

[snooper2]

68. Is it still okay to make fun of people who look like turtles?

[Aerows]

71. No matter how beautiful you are on the outside

you should be beautiful on the inside. That takes care of all manner of problems.

[Dreamer Tatum]

72. I think DU endorses it if it's a Republican

No, wait - I KNOW DU does.

[Kingofalldems]

141. Does that offend you?

[Dreamer Tatum]

143. No, it amuses me when people get butthurt about it, actually. nt

[redqueen]

73. The fact that it's focused on weight says it all.

There are plenty of people who aren't overweight yet who eat shitty diets, don't get enough exercise, and are in very poor health for various reasons (drinking too much, abusing drugs, etc.)

The fact is people are biased. Health is not the reason so many people like to pick on overweight people. It's just an excuse.

[laundry_queen]

139. ^^^this.

An interesting anecdote - my dad used to coach my brother's sports. There were about 4 other dads he was friends with that also coached. 2 were severely obese and 2 were 'average' weight. My parents - who were/are extremely fat phobic - would go on and on about how those 2 obese dads were ready to drop dead of a heart attack any day. "You just watch, they won't make it to 50."

Here we are 30 years later, and the 2 obese guys are still alive (at 60+) and the 2 'average' guys dropped dead of heart attacks (one died 20 years ago, one a few years ago). I think it demonstrates that you cannot expect someone's weight to tell the story about their health. But those 2 obese guys sure dealt with a lot of ridicule (behind their backs, of course) coming from my parents.

yes, my parents are assholes. I'm obese now and I know they do the same behind my back. Meanwhile, my dad's an alcoholic...but we can't speak of that. No, but we can talk about how laundry_queen needs to lose weight.

[treestar]

74. There's a point

For example, the Hollywood definition of "fat" is ridiculous.

Some people really do have glandular and other problems. These 600 pound people (over my sisters I sat through two shows of reality about that - both got down under 300) - I don't see how you can even eat that much. There has to be heredity or other factors involved.

The health issues are there but exaggerated.

I gained due to age, heredity and anti-depressants. I'm always aware about losing weight, but it's not so easy after menopause, even following a diet. I also don't want to lose too much too fast and it is true I found you gain it back and then some. I'm trying now to lose just 10 and maintain there long enough to make that a new point. So I still look fat.

A long way of saying that we all need to be far less judgmental of others on this subject too.

[Orsino]

76. I think that people on DU should generally STFU about weight...

...if the conversation can't be kept clinical. Half-assed medical opinions and name-calling are better suited to Freepville.

[PasadenaTrudy]

79. Here...

http://danceswithfat.wordpress.com/

Ragen is great. Yes, you can be overweight and healthy. You can be thin and unhealthy...

[dilby]

80. You had it right in paragraph 2, it's not your business.

Seriously why does anyone think they have the right to address people based on their weight? And who defines health, if we address people overweight can we skinny shame people who have eating disorders because they are so obsessed with fitting into an image defined my pop culture? And yes the healthy weight is defined by pop culture, it's what we see on tv, movies, magazines and every where else they are trying to sell us something.

Me personally I could afford to lose 30-40 lbs, I am 6'1" and 220 lbs, four years ago I was 167 lbs wearing a size 30 jeans and looked pretty unhealthy. I was obsessed with eating a 1200 calorie a day diet and going to the gym every day and sometimes twice a day. Today I eat healthy but I am not counting my calories, I don't go to the gym but do ride my bike 10 miles a day to and from work and I am way happier than I have ever been. I just had my blood work done and my cholesterol levels are great, blood pressure is great, blood sugar is great and the doctor says for a 39 year old man I am perfect but at 220 lbs on the height weight chart I am listed as obese even though I don't look it at all.

Some people win the gene lottery at birth and never have weight issues, some of us lose the lottery at birth and always have weight issues. As someone who has to avoid certain foods I know this, I have friends who can drink beer and eat chips all day and never gain any weight. I myself have to stick with low carb drinks and veggies for snacks, I believe I deserve the same dignity as anyone else and I treat people with the same dignity.

Finally when it comes to women I find women who are listed as overweight to BBW more attractive, my friends call me a chubby chaser but reality is I like women who look like women. I like hips, butt and boobs, I am not going to lie and women who have those features naturally are generally what society considers overweight. I think they look great and it will be a sad day for me when all women look like 12 year old boys.

[Xithras]

81. Being overweight is a health issue.

We wouldn't shame someone because they had a cold, or cancer, or HIV, because we understand that they are health problems. Anyone who thinks that it's OK to "shame" someone over a health problem should be ashamed of themselves. Like all health problems, we get to choose how we treat or accept the disease. If someone chooses to forgoe any kind of treatment or action to fix the problem, then it's their choice. Your body, your choice.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

156. Sometimes it's a dead thyroid problem.

Hashimoto's disease is an autoimmune disease. It's pretty common.

Your thyroid dies from a random virus or bacterium that hits it, often in preadolescent girls (this happened to my mother and I)
so I would die if I didn't take thyroid extract.

A lot of women with low thyroid/low fertility/overweight are just put on anti-depressants and the doctors ignore them.

Then you go on a restricted calorie diet and your metabolism slows even more, so it doesn't work.

More info:
http://thyroid.about.com

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

[Marrah_G]

82. We know we are overwieght and we know we have to lose wieght to be healthy

Lecturing someone is going to do the opposite of what you intend.

My suggestion is not to say anything unless the overweight person brings it up. Then just simply offer to help if you can. Say "hey if you need any help, I'm here for you"

[dawg]

83. I don't know a single overweight person who doesn't already want to be slimmer ...

some of them desperately so.

The notion that any of these people need to be "shamed" for their own good is bullshit of epic proportions. They know they are overweight, and they know it would be better if they were thinner. No one needs to "shame" them in order for the message to get through.

As far as fat "acceptance" goes, overweight people need to know that *they* are accepted. Being overweight isn't ideal, but we all have different features and qualities that aren't ideal Weight is just one of them.

[RKP5637]

85. From my perspective, I see this as education. If ones weight can be a problem for their

health, then they should be helped. If they don't care about their health, than IMO not much is going to work. I don't go for shaming, it has so many negative connotations. Again, I think education is key, many people might not realize the risk they might be at ...

[conservaphobe]

86. As a guy who has always struggled with obesity,

I don't expect to be accepted for something I can control. The "what if someone can't help it" line is such bullshit and only hurts us obese people who use that as an excuse not to do anything about it.

I don't feel entitled to other's affections/sexual attraction. It is up to others what/who they find attractive. I don't need to shame people for not finding my flabby body attractive.

In fact, the way society treats us differently is a good motivator to cut calories and move more.

With that said: Nearly 75 pounds down since January and another 105 to go!

[closeupready]

118. Congratulations - I hit a high of 184 three years ago when

I looked at a photo of me with my friends, and thought to myself, "that doesn't even look like me!" At that moment, I decided to change my diet and commence an exercise routine - 40 lbs. later, it's not difficult for me to maintain this weight - it does get a little boring sometimes, though.

[Vinca]

88. People are who they are and "shaming" only makes things worse.

A major reason for obesity is the comfort food gives to many. Shame a fat person and they'll reach for the hot fudge to make themselves feel better. None of us is perfect and we shouldn't be passing judgment.

[jakeXT]

92. I've just read about stuffers

Jenny first noticed her desire to be tubbier-than-thou when she hit puberty, and she insists that her decision to fill out is an informed one. “We KNOW we are putting our health at stake,” she says. “We aren’t idiots. Gainers like myself go to the doctor like anyone else. I gain weight not by inhaling Twinkies, but by eating larger portions of the same foods anyone else eats. We have a sexual urge to be fat, but we also have the common sense to listen to a doctor.”

http://www.vocativ.com/underworld/sex/stuffers-pack-pounds-satisfy-sexual-desires/

[Quantess]

93. Attacking or bullying someone for being overweight is ugly and despicble behavior.

That seems like it should be obvious to any reasonable person. Also, people who are fat know they are fat. Yes, in most cases, they are aware and they do not need it pointed out to them, not even in a "nice" way.

However, obesity is a serious health problem, and this should be made clear! There is no getting around the fact that overweight is harmful to your health, just like smoking is.

Staying a healthy weight is a real struggle for many people. It is so easy in these modern times to overeat, to eat junk food, to not move around enough, etc. There shouldn't be any shame attached to fat, because that leads to eating disorders.

The emphasis, I think, should focus on healthy lifestyle choices such as eating right and exercising.

[KamaAina]

94. Freddie Mercury should have the last word here

[LWolf]

97. I don't know what DU thinks.

I know what I think.

I think fat shaming belongs in the same category as any kind of bullying.

I don't know about fat "acceptance." I think people ought to be accepted, respected, and given dignity. That doesn't rule out concern about their health, but it does rule out judgment about their bodies.

There are many, many reasons for fat. The modern rise in obesity and type II diabetes has multiple sources. One big factor is the food supply.

In my generation, kids weren't fat. They just weren't, outside of some other health issue.

During my childhood, fast food was just taking off. Going to McDonalds, up to a window to get take out food, was a novelty. Generally, we cooked and ate at home. We took home-made lunches to school, and, if we didn't, our school cafeterias actually cooked food on site, fed it to us on real plates, and did dishes afterwards, much like home.

By the time I was in middle school, fast food and over-processed, pre-packaged food was becoming more common. Soda drinking was more prevalent, but putting 35 cents in the Coke machine got you a small glass bottle, and you were done. By the time I was in high school, it was ubiquitous.

Today, more and more kids are over-weight. It starts in infancy, being fed that over-processed, convenient and/or cheap junk. High in calories, high in sugar. Especially the sugar; it's in everything, even things that we don't think of as sweet.

But poor eating habits aside, it's also in the raw materials. There are some studies out there that indicate GMO crops contribute to the problem with weight gain.

Poor people's food has always been starch-heavy, and led to more health risks and more weight gain, as well. You can simply get fuller, and stretch the food dollar farther, on the kinds of foods that, in excess, lead to insulin resistance and type II diabetes. Fast foods, convenience foods, and modern schedules have pushed fat causing foods into the middle class, as well.

If you are as concerned about people being overweight, start by making sure that everyone has equal access to a healthy food supply. That would go a hell of a long way toward reducing obesity, without ever having to go after individuals.

[Iggo]

98. I think I'll hide this thread is what I think.

[get the red out]

100. We should be addressing societal issues

There are many ways that our society sets people up for weight issues and health problems. We should address these rather than deciding to literally shame innocent individuals. I do not believe shaming someone is an acceptable, OR effective practice.

Look at all the sham weight loss gimmicks advertised non-stop, that stuff has to be discouraging to someone desperate for a solution when they spend their money and get no results, why even bother? And the diet commercials for programs where women go from 250 lbs to a size 3? WTH is it always a size 3? Why not a rational size that won't make people just move along if they actually have something to offer? And most weight loss discussion does seem to be focused on women, I guess that's telling a guy with an unhealthy weight that he doesn't have to worry about it.

For the record, I am of a normal weight. But our country's thin obsession combined with unhealthy food obsession is not helping anyone and has pissed me off for a long time. Then there is the cost of healthy food compared to unhealthy food (here come the lectures to "just grow your own" as if a patch of tomatoes in July and August will help a lot come December). The deck is stacked against anyone who can't budget more to buy healthy veggies and lean meats. Dollar meal here we come! Signed USA.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

105. has shaming people ever lead to changes?

otherwise we would not have gay people, women who had sex outside marriages, drug users etc.

clearly, shaming is done for a reason that is unrelated to helping the people shamed.

my best guess is that its done to make the shamer feel better about themselves

[grilled onions]

106. Is It Just A Problem of Control Over Eating?

Some people are super thin or super large yet what they eat may surprise those who feel "they" can do something about it. Some have a very fast metabolism. Others may be slowed down by meds they have to take,the inability to exercise by medical conditions.
Yes all of us have goals and wishes but that does not mean in will happen. Yes I am way over weight but my wish would be to be able to get out of my wheel chair--have a decent back again etc. Many of us have so many problems what we don't need is criticism for something we have little control of.
We need to have less criticism and more upbeat comments for everyone. We were all created different (for some reason--perhaps tolerance). We can probably find something imperfect about everyone but should we? I have many hospital visits and one thing I noticed there are more happy "imperfect" among the patients then the latter. They are always striving to make their little world a better place. They hand out smiles as if they were candy. If everyone would do that perhaps we would have more happy and less criticism.

[tridim]

107. Obesity is unhealthy and raises healthcare costs for everyone.

That said, I don't believe in shaming people who are fat, but I do try to guide them to become more healthy whenever I can. Because good health is a life-long gift that vastly improves quality of life.

So I guess I health-shame to some extent, but I consider it a good thing.

BTW, I used to be skinny-shamed quite often, until I realized that I wasn't just skinny, I was unhealthy. I fixed that with diet and exercise, and it changed my life. It took over a year of hard work, but anyone can do it.

[JNelson6563]

108. A person's body type is their own business.

I like that about the internet, at least the anonymous parts, people can see you for your ideas and character, not your appearance.

I don't know what any of you look like, I only know you by your words--therefore many of you are beautiful to me.

Julie

[alp227]

109. On one hand, the "thin=always beautiful" standard has to go,

on the other, people need to make informed choices about their health. As rationalwiki points out: "While advocating for realistic attitudes about body shape and size is not the same thing as addressing attitudes towards people who are obese, the two are often conflated."

[Rex]

111. I think any attempt at making a person feel like shit is unacceptable.

You can call it ________ shaming. The entire reason is for malicious satisfaction. If you think a loved one is overweight and are concerned for their health...there are positive ways to help in that outcome.

Shaming just goes for a cheap mental high with no positive outcome...I don't approve.

[treestar]

113. The best way is to quit pressuring them to

- go out to eat
- eat this or that (oh we're getting pizza tonight! - and making a fuss when you decline).

I have relatives who positively work against me when it comes to this. Sure I have will power, but it's harder when they are pressuring you - or more annoying. Always calling me anti-social when I don't want to go to restaurants.

[Rex]

114. At least you are further along then I am.

I gave up, my families peer pressure and passive aggressiveness toward me just caused me to quit caring. I've heard it too many years now...but hey, I get called anti-social no matter what I do...it is a revolving door where I live.

[Arugula Latte]

115. It is definitely wrong to attack and shame fat people

However I do support societal messages and education about the effects of obesity, the importance of exercise, nutrition information, promotion of JERK (just eat real food), etc., just as I support anti-smoking education and head injury prevention campaigns, and so on.

Obesity seems to have a high correlation with cultural norms. The rural/urban divide on obesity is pretty striking. It can't be explained just by "urban people walk more." There is much more to it. I live in a city and the vast majority of the middle class-to-affluent people I know are slim to normal weight to just slightly chubby. A lot of it has to do with the cultural importance placed on food and diet (not dieting) that people embrace in cities. In the country there tends to be more of a reliance on fast food, giant portions, fat- and sugar-laden types of meals, etc. (Yes I know these are sweeping generalizations and we all know plenty of exceptions.) It is a socioeconomic issue, too, of course.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120914080904.htm

[closeupready]

116. I think of fatness like greed or laziness.

Qualities common among those who lack maturity and self-discipline. Not in EVERY case, of course, and for the benefit of those for whom such qualities are out of their control, I would never deliberately 'shame' someone who is fat.

But "fat acceptance" is not a healthy direction for our culture to go, IMHO.

[newcriminal]

119. So fat people are greedy, lazy, lack maturity and self discipline?

Except for a few that these qualities are out of their control. Is this really how you feel? Please tell me I missed something in there.

[closeupready]

120. Basically, yes, that's how I feel, with the noted exceptions.

What did you miss?

[newcriminal]

123. Nothing, other than you're a dumb ass, or at the very least an ignorant, self righteous person.

No need to even discuss with your kind.

I was once told that black people smell (obviously the person wasn't smart enough to use the word stink). I put you in the same category as them.

[closeupready]

126. LOL Suit yourself, sweetheart.

[GoCubsGo]

122. You'd "never deliberately 'shame' somone who is fat"...

Yet you liken liken fatness to "greed", "laziness", and "Lack of maturity and self-discipline." Oooookaaayyyy. Whatever.

[newcriminal]

124. Exactly, I am stunned to have anyone on here come right out and say it.

[Marrah_G]

128. You just did.

Every one of on this board who is over weight now knows what you think of them.

[closeupready]

129. Because taking IBB comments personally is ... recommended by you?

??

[Marrah_G]

133. Yes, it's a message board.

But there are real people behind each screen name.

[newcriminal]

140. If this was said about being a lesbian this site would be all over this.

But since it's just a fat person you are degrading, stereotyping, it's ok. Sometimes DU disappoints me.

[LanternWaste]

165. A wonderfully accurate descriptor of those who criticize others who do not affect them.

"Qualities common among those who lack maturity and self-discipline"


A wonderfully accurate descriptor of those who criticize others who do not affect them. However, much like you, I would never deliberately shame them, as they do that very thing well enough on their own, more often than not, completely unaware of it...

[GoCubsGo]

121. Yes. I've been fat-shamed all my life, and it's been fucking awesome!

I lost that weight multiple times, and I missed being all the name-calling and humiliation so much that I gained it all right back each time. I just couldn't live without all the lecturing and "educating", because we fat people are all just too damn stupid and ignorant to figure out that carrying around too much weight is bad for us. We love all the aches and pains just about as much as we love being told that we are weak, lazy, self-indulgent, immature, undisciplined, and oh so clueless about burning more calories than we take in. I mean, who gives a shit that the current research on the effects of pesticides, viruses, genetics, obesogens from plastics, stress, menopause, and a whole myriad of other possible factors have rendered that notion "calories in/calories out" thing obsolete? We'd rather be told that we "brought this on ourselves." And, there's nothing better than being called a liar when you point out to people that you eat better and exercise more than most of them probably do. It's the best. Some people don't know what they're missing.

Sheesh. I can't believe some of the shit I'm reading in this thread.

[Scout]

125. excellent! + a fucking gazillion n/t

[GliderGuider]

131. How about the 30% of the population who have diet-induced metabolic disorders?

People who got that way from eating the Standard American Diet, so high in all those good good good starches and sugars?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11790215

Obesity isn't a moral disorder. It's often (very, very often) a metabolic disorder brought on by excessive levels of circulating insulin in the bloodstream. The insulin is produced by the pancreas to cope with the excess blood glucose that comes from eating too many carbohydrates. However, excessive serum insulin levels prevent any fat being mobilized out of the adipose tissue to be used as energy. The result is - you stay fat.

How is fat-shaming supposed to help a physiological issue?

I'm one of that 30%, and the only way I could lose the weight was to change my diet. I lost my fear of saturated fats, and cut out the bread, rice, pasta and potatoes. It's a simple fix, but our social conditioning and erroneous information from the medical establishment has made it almost impossible to get the message across.

Here's a strong recommendation for Gary Taubes' remarkable book Good Calories, Bad Calories. We could all use some more real science in our lives.

[Scout]

134. but, but, but, i thought the human metabolism was a simple scale!!!

you know, calories in, calories out! what all this about serum insulin levels preventing the fat being mobilized from the adipose tissue?!



THANK YOU for bringing some intelligence to DU's never ending fat wars.

[GliderGuider]

136. My pleasure!

[Zorra]

132. Fat shaming is stupid, cruel, and juvenile, just like shaming people for any other

physical characteristic is stupid, cruel, and juvenile.

end of story.

[TygrBright]

144. Since our culture has a pathologically creepy view of what constitutes "fat," yes, it's wrong.

And the folks who hide behind the "it's all about HEALTH!" shield are some of the worst offenders.

"Fat" as in "not buff and toned and fitting into a standard size" versus "fat" as in "genuinely morbidly obese" are very different. Yet they get treated the same.

However, the more we study body type, physiology, genetics, and metabolism, the more we are learning that what may appear "fat" in one person (because they have a roll around their belly and flab on their thighs) may actually be perfectly healthy for them-- and FAR healthier than attempting to achieve a high lean muscle mass and/or lose the fat.

Fat, as a tissue type, does a great many good things for our bodies. We're just beginning to learn how much so.

So please don't use "it's not healthy!" as a shield, when you're describing someone who is simply carrying more fat tissue than YOU think is healthy.

You want to feel bad for someone with a terrible metabolic disease that puts them at 600 pounds and will shorten their life, fine, but do it on your own time.

You want to point out that having no waist and flabby upper arms will Doom Someone To The Grave, give it a rest.

Fat shaming is a ploy to funnel profits into a various billion-plus dollar industries: diets, supplements, "fitness" products, "beauty" products and surgeries, everything that makes money off of our insecurities.

Quit worrying about other peoples' health, and examine your own fixation on trying to "help" people who don't need your help and won't benefit from your expressed concern.

curmudgeonly,
Bright

[Beausoir]

150. Concern Troll Vanity post.

You don't give a shit about acceptance.

You fail to understand that people....ALL people...are born with different body types.

It's none of your business and if you continue to be obsessed about it you should get out and exercise more.

[PasadenaTrudy]

167. +1 n/t

[StevieM]

151. Here is a great Youtube video on the subject, by Laci Green

[Algernon Moncrieff]

153. I am overweight. When I'm drinking beer and eating pizza, I'm very accepting of fat

When I'm feeling the pain in my knee, or dealing with my elevated blood sugar, I'm ashamed of my fat.

What I think; what you think; and what DU generally thinks don't matter. Here's reality:

Obesity is the #1 health issue in this country, bar none. If you have employer based health care, your employer is going to be up in your face about healthy habits (and your coworkers grill) because of the impact obesity is having on health care premiums. Since the federal government is now acting as a placement facility for individuals seeking health care, they too will be in your face about healthy living because of the impact of obesity on industry wide costs. If one is applying for a job with a company offering employer-based health care, being overweight is a factor in being hired, whether you like that fact or nor - whether you think that's fair or not. They are going to wonder, "Will we have to pay for this employee's bypass operation?" "Will this employee have a stroke or heart attack and make a disability claim?"

Eventually, insurers will "incentivize" BMI. Those with BMI and cholesterol in acceptable ranges will pay less for insurance. Those like me will pay more, or have to figure out a way to drop some weight. "I've tried and can't do it?" won't be accepted as an excuse unless you have a verifiable endocrine disorder, and then they'll want to medically manage your disorder.

I'm not saying fat people are bad; I'm not saying they can't be sexy; I'm not saying they aren't great parents, fine coworkers, good Christians, knowledgeable football fans, or stalwart Democrats. However, all overweight persons could realize health benefits from getting to a healthy weight.

[JEFF9K]

154. I had a thread and a comment hidden for making harmless references to the existence of overweight...

... people. How did your thread get through?

[Marr]

155. If by "acceptance" you mean not attacking obese people, I'm all for it.

If you mean ignoring the fact that obesity is a big health risk and telling people it's just fine to be obese then no, I'm not for it.

I figure a person's weight is their business alone. If someone pushes an agenda to other people, however, the topic is open for discussion.

[ecstatic]

158. we should shame the corporations that are destroying our food supply

and contributing to obesity. Not to mention all the misleading food labels. All natural my ass!

[Dorian Gray]

161. Of course it's wrong to attack people

because of their weight. Every human being is worthy of dignity and respect.

[IronLionZion]

166. There's no need to shame or accept anything

it's nothing to be ashamed of and the shame doesn't help, in fact it can be very discouraging. The people who do it claim its for promoting health, but in actuality it is mostly mean-spirited and judgmental. Insecure people of all types like to put others down to compensate for their own insecurities. Certain types love to say "you can't have it, you don't deserve it" and it angers them to see a fat person enjoying a scoop of ice cream that they "don't deserve".

People should be free to make their own choices. If someone chooses to set a goal and plan of action, they should certainly be supported.

There's a lot of environmental factors involved in unhealthy diets: longer workdays, longer commutes, anxiety, stress, processed food is easier and cheaper than wholesome foods, etc. Plus there is evidence to show that many of the things that are bad for us in large quantities can be addictive, like sugar or artificial ingredients.

When I gave up sugar for 2 months, fruit started to taste so delicious, it was like heaven. And I love the taste of fresh produce where I know where it came from more than the ethelene gassed garbage trucked long distances to the grocery store. Farmer's market vine ripened tomatoes are so much better than store bought.