The continued shelling of civilians by Ukrainian forces is ethnic cleansing.

[another_liberal]

If what the Kiev government is now doing to its independence-minded ethnic Russian people is not ethnic cleansing it is so similar to that war crime as to be indistinguishable in its methods and its impact on the targeted population:

Thursday, July 10

10:38 GMT:

Three Ukrainian soldiers have been killed and 27 wounded in clashes with the self-defense forces in the east of the country in the past 24 hours, the military said on Thursday. “The situation in the region remains tense,” according to the press-center of the National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine. There have also been cases of road mining, both of highways and dirt roads, which the Kiev forces use.

06:33 GMT:

Fighting has been reported in eastern Ukraine near the ‘Donetsk’ checkpoint in Rostov Region, southwestern Russia, the press service of the Russian Southern Customs Service reported. The customs officers have been evacuated.

04:31 GMT:

Sanctions against Russia are stupid, believes Marine Le Pen, the president of the French far-right National Front.

“These sanctions are stupid, and have contributed to adding fuel to the fire, created a hostile environment against Russia,” said the French politician at a press conference. Le Pen believes that Russia is one of those countries which “preserves Ukraine's sovereignty and avoids the degradation of this situation to a civil war. The best way to stop this is to put everyone around the table,” she said, adding that Western countries “should not treat Russia with contempt,” because Russia is “a big regional player.”

(snip)

Read more at: http://rt.com/news/eastern-ukraine-army-operation-680/

[MohRokTah]

1. RT = Pure Bullshit eom

[another_liberal]

5. Check AFP if you don't believe Le Pen said what is quoted here . . .

Are you just going to reject the public record, because you don't like what it reports?

[MohRokTah]

7. No, I am going to reject pure bullshit for being pure bullshit.

And that you think anything a neo-nazi Holocaust denier has to say means anything more than pure bullshit is very telling.

[Bad Thoughts]

14. We are supposed to follow a Fascist like Le Pen?

RT has clearly jumped the shark (though I believe they did long ago).

[Duckhunter935]

8. very true

[SidDithers]

2. ... according to RT...nt

Sid

[malaise]

3. No one in the West cares

and they don't care about the slaughter of Palestinians either.

[another_liberal]

4. Yeah, too true . . .

And "defense" industry stocks are booming on Wall Street, no doubt.

[DetlefK]

6. Is it still ethic cleansing if the rebels do it?

In unrelated news:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5194156
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025120182

And those aren't the innocent "independence-minded ethnic russian people" you would like them to be.
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/ukrainian-rebel-commander-identified-as-russian-gru-military-intelligence-colonel/

[sendero]

9. Don'tch know,...

... that people who feel like they have an "ethnic identity" not of their own country have a right to take up arms to force said country to cede land to them?

didn't know that? that's because it NEVER HAPPENS and ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN in the Ukraine.

If these folks feel "Russian', they can move to Russia. THAT is their only option, and if they decide to press their case militarily they get what people who do that get, bombed.

[DetlefK]

11. Reminds me of Hungary and Romania.

Romania has a huge hungarian minority and both countries are neighbours. Standards of living etc. are about equal in both countries.

The difference: There has been a huge shift among the Hungarians towards nationalism and racism. And they absolutely refuse to regard themselves as part of Romania when living in Romania. How bad is it?
I've heard of a wedding in Romania: Two hungarians married. When the marriage was certified in the city-council, their relatives accompanied them and when everything was done, they sang the hungarian national anthem. Inside a romanian government-building and in front of romanian bureaucrats.



I think, a lot of the distrust was fueled by russian propaganda of the new ukrainian rulers being nazis and thieves. Now it has turned out that the situation is not that bad and could be solved with diplomacy, but the hard-core nationalists in eastern Ukraine don't want that.

[Duckhunter935]

10. rebels blow up bridges

To keep food and water and supplies out of the city. RT will then go and cry a river.




http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28191833

The rebels admitted they did this not the Ukrainian army.

In other news
Poroshenko orders urgent humanitarian aid to Sloviansk, Ukraine




http://www.demotix.com/news/5211601/poroshenko-orders-urgent-humanitarian-aid-sloviansk-ukraine#media-5211471

Those fascists

[another_liberal]

38. At least none of that is "Propaganda," right?

What lovely photos.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. What has your excerpt got to do with your claim of 'ethnic cleansing'?

Ukrainian soldiers killed and wounded doesn't show, in any way, 'ethnic cleansing'. It shows some rebels and/or Russian mercenaries are fighting.

[another_liberal]

15. The murder and destruction caused by Kiev's offensive against ethnic Russians continues . . .

There has been no end to the attacks, as is noted in the excerpts (check the linked source, no doubt their are more reports of deaths and injuries today). The government forces intend to "cleanse" the east of any who don't bow to the power of western Ukraine.

Let me know, though, when you hear Poroshenko's next "truce" has gone into effect. That will be when to expect the an escalation in senseless violence by the Ukrainian army's fascist "volunteer battalions."


BTW: Have you seen this yet? It is quite an eye opener:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/president-poroshenko-uses-rand-corporation-action-plan-for-eastern-ukraine-including-ground-assaults-and-air-strikes/5389795

[muriel_volestrangler]

18. I just read your link - from 'AboveTopSecret'!!!

Home of stories like "Obama Guns Down UFO" and "Area 51 Russian Reptilian".



PS The attacks in your excerpt were on Ukrainian soldiers

[The Magistrate]

20. Christ, Sir, Is that Site Still Around? Will Citing Sorcha Fal Be Next?

The fella has broken through the bottom of the barrel and is scrabbling down deep into the dirt....

[maddezmom]

24. Has been for a while, Sir

SSDD. 👎

[another_liberal]

21. No main stream media in the West would cover such a story . . .

Wall Street would destroy them as punishment for screwing with their long-planned looting of eastern Ukraine, after all resistance is ended of course.

Russia Today did cover the story, though. Like a link to them.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

13. Said the guy shilling for the butcher of Grozny. n/t

[another_liberal]

16. By which you mean . . .

Whom?

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. You, for Putin

http://socialistworker.co.uk/art/36645/West+praises+Putin,+the+butcher+of+Grozny

[another_liberal]

19. Are you trying to call me a name?

If so, it is a torturous way to do something as simple as that.

[Adrahil]

23. The only thing I ever see you do here is cheer lead for Putin. What else ya got? NT

[PoliticalPothead]

27. You seem to think that showing solidarity with the antifascist forces in eastern Ukraine

is "cheerleading for Putin." The only way that logic could make sense is if you've been listening to the US propaganda machine, aka the mainstream corporate media, and actually believe their narrative that the rebels in eastern Ukraine are all pro-Russians blindly following the orders of Putin. Nothing could be further from the truth. The self-defense forces in eastern Ukraine are not pro-Russian. Most of them don't even want to join Russia, they want an independent government controlled neither by Russia nor Kiev. In fact, many of these so-called pro-Russians are angry with Putin for not helping them fight against the fascist Kiev forces.

[another_liberal]

37. You see what you want to see . . .

Open your eyes to the rest of the World.

[NutmegYankee]

22. Russia Today, the Fox News of international news. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

25. Soviet Russians ethnically cleansed Crimea in 1944, they forced the Tatars at gunpoint onto

boxcars and transported them thousands of miles away. Nearly 200,000 people were forcibly relocated in a matter of weeks. Their land was taken by Russian 'settlers'. Recently, Russia invaded Crimea citing the fact that lots of Russians live there, neglecting to mention how those Russians got there and what happened to the rightful owners of that land who ruled it for hundreds of years prior to the Soviet crimes.

[Duckhunter935]

26. and not allowing the leaders of Crimea's Tatar community to come back home by bannishing them

Leader of Crimean Tatars Labeled 'Extremist,' Banned From Home

The leader of Crimea's Tatar community was banned from returning home for a period of five years by the peninsula's prosecutor on Saturday due to "signs of extremism" allegedly present in a speech he gave a day earlier.

Prosecutor Natalia Poklonskaya confirmed the news on Twitter on Sunday, saying simply "[Refat] Chubarov has been banned from entering the Russian Federation for five years."

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/leader-of-crimean-tatars-labeled-extremist-banned-from-home/503027.html

A senior leader of Crimea's Tatar community has been reportedly banned from returning to the Black Sea peninsula following its annexation by Russia.

The Crimean Tatar assembly said Mustafa Dzhemilev was given notice forbidding him from entering Russian territory, including Crimea, for five years.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/russia-bans-crimean-tatar-leader-mustafa-dzhemilev-1445635

[Jenoch]

28. "Ethnic cleansing"?

That's impossible since there is not dime's worth of difference ethnically between most Russians and most Ukrainians. Both countries have there ethnic minorities, but I don't think that was the point attempting to be made.

[Gravitycollapse]

29. Russian and Ukrainian are distinct ethnic groups. And what you said is deeply bigoted.

[Jenoch]

30. Please explain the "ethnic" differences to me.

I do wish to know.

[Gravitycollapse]

31. Are you familiar with the concept of Russification?

[Jenoch]

32. Of course I am.

What does that have to do with ethnicity?

They are eastern slavs. A geneticist may be able to explain some ethnic differences, but the differences ethnically do not seem to be too different. The same for Belarusians.

[Gravitycollapse]

33. As I suspected, your argument confuses ethnicity with race.

Ethnicity is defined by historical associations which may or may not be effected by perceived racial identities. But it does not require that racially homogenous peoples be ethnically identical or even similar.

Consider for a moment whether or not it would be absurd to claim that all West Africans are ethnically identical because they are largely racially homogenous. Then we can shrink it down to regional interest. Are all Ghanaians ethnically identical because they are racially homogenous?

You've just thrown historical ethnic diversity out the window.

[Jenoch]

34. I'm not referring to a continent and dozens of countries.

I am referring to eth ic Russians and ethnic Ukrainians. There are cultural and political differences, but the majority are eastern slaves.

There might be neighboring African countries, in fact I'm sure there are, in which there is not much ethnic difference between their majority populations.

[Gravitycollapse]

35. Hence, we go back to Russification...

Which is the erasure of ethnic difference through assimilation of different ethnic groups within Eastern Slavic countries into Russian ethnonationalism.

The occupation of Eastern Europe by Russia, historically and contemporarily, is similar to the European colonization of Africa in that it draws up borders along national identities conceived by the occupiers. Hence, ethnic groups in Africa have been split up and assimilated, at least aesthetically, with other ethnic groups to satisfy the nationalism of the occupiers.

This causes, as you rightly identify, ethnic groups to be similar between nations because the fabricated national identity drew a border between them.

[Jenoch]

36. 'Russification' of Ukraine

was about politics, language, and culture. He lines can get blurred between ethnicity and nationality. The Rus people as a culture predated Russia by many years. The 'Rus' culture, contrary to what might be expected, is the beginning of Ukrainian culture. The term 'ethnic Russians is used to describe people who have family lines dating back to when they lived in Russia. The racial and ethnic makeup of the majority populations have only small genetic differences.