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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 01:56 PM Jul 2014

Fox News ‘Girls Gone Mild’ segment warns women not to raise voices: ‘Don’t talk too much’

By David Edwards
Monday, July 7, 2014 11:56 EDT

A Fox & Friends segment on Monday warned women looking to succeed in business “not to raise their voices” and not to talk too much.

Fox News host Steve Doocy introduced Sylvia Ann Hewlett’s book, Executive Presence, by advising that women should wear “well-cut jeans with a colorful top,” while an on-screen graphic told them “not to raise their voices.”

Co-host Anna Kooiman, however, argued that “women shouldn’t be so focused on what we look like, and what we’re wearing, but what our mind can do.”

“Also a little thing that you think is important is your presentation and your voice,” co-host Brian Kilmeade added. “Keep it low, don’t speak loud.”

“For women,” Doocy emphasized.

more
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/07/fox-news-girls-gone-mild-segment-warns-women-not-to-raise-voices-dont-talk-too-much/

43 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Fox News ‘Girls Gone Mild’ segment warns women not to raise voices: ‘Don’t talk too much’ (Original Post) DonViejo Jul 2014 OP
So much stupid ... GeorgeGist Jul 2014 #1
Deeply stupid. Enthusiast Jul 2014 #25
........ daleanime Jul 2014 #2
but, but, but (as a few on DU may race to point out), a WOMAN wrote the book... hlthe2b Jul 2014 #3
Makes as much sense... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2014 #37
Sounds like a fundamentalist Mormon saying.. "Stay Sweet" Peacetrain Jul 2014 #4
Interesting article on precisely this type of thing intaglio Jul 2014 #5
..."he could now "even complete a whole sentence without being interrupted by a man" hlthe2b Jul 2014 #11
Really good article. cyberswede Jul 2014 #15
Excellent article. DURHAM D Jul 2014 #16
Meh. I don't like the word 'bitch', so I would have probably voted to hide it Sheldon Cooper Jul 2014 #17
In the context of this thread I would definitely NOT vote to hide. nt DURHAM D Jul 2014 #18
If I thought it was being used ironically, I might give it a pass. Sheldon Cooper Jul 2014 #19
I Interrupt My Doctors All The Time ProfessorGAC Jul 2014 #28
Are you male? Because it does matter what chromosome pair you have intaglio Jul 2014 #31
Yes I'm Male ProfessorGAC Jul 2014 #32
Are you a medic? Do you have medical training? intaglio Jul 2014 #33
You Did It Again ProfessorGAC Jul 2014 #34
Because interuption, by definition, means you do not listen to the complete statement intaglio Jul 2014 #35
Says the poster with four hides HangOnKids Jul 2014 #43
reads like fucking satire…. dhill926 Jul 2014 #6
It depends on the business the woman is in Demeter Jul 2014 #42
Fuck a bunch of that. cyberswede Jul 2014 #7
Can we can that network the Stepford channel? SummerSnow Jul 2014 #8
that author also advises women not to dress "ethnic" Enrique Jul 2014 #9
Post removed Post removed Jul 2014 #10
She said, there are particular hurdles for people of color. SummerSnow Jul 2014 #12
insecure little men Skittles Jul 2014 #13
"That's a women using her assets" ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #14
Guess this is their policy at Fox news SummerSnow Jul 2014 #20
Perfect advice...from a 900 yr old thrice-married cuckold and a Saudi "Prince". elehhhhna Jul 2014 #21
LOL! ismnotwasm Jul 2014 #22
I was told just that by my Assistant Superintendent: Stay mum until I've heard all. I said if we all WinkyDink Jul 2014 #23
Well they have to recruit new handmaids for the coming Republic of Gilead somehow, right? nt MrScorpio Jul 2014 #24
They are preaching to the choir JustAnotherGen Jul 2014 #26
Fox is just reinforcing traditional gender socialization. redqueen Jul 2014 #27
Don't talk too much unless... americannightmare Jul 2014 #29
All of which ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #30
From the station noted for talking over people. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2014 #36
How did I guess this was business... NutmegYankee Jul 2014 #38
LOL - She's actually telling people not to act like the airhead Fox News hosts! bananas Jul 2014 #39
Yeesh. <eom> bvf Jul 2014 #40
Thats not sexist at all! BootinUp Jul 2014 #41

hlthe2b

(101,730 posts)
3. but, but, but (as a few on DU may race to point out), a WOMAN wrote the book...
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:02 PM
Jul 2014

so, it must be true... and appropriate and.... all those feminist women are just wrong... and I can say it and not be a misogynist....

Just wait...

Peacetrain

(22,836 posts)
4. Sounds like a fundamentalist Mormon saying.. "Stay Sweet"
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:05 PM
Jul 2014

Just chilling.. how long before they start introducing the burka (I do not know how to spell it..the dress style that covers a woman from head to toe) as a style option

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
5. Interesting article on precisely this type of thing
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:09 PM
Jul 2014

From Alternet- 10 Words Every Girl Should Learn by Soraya Chemaly

"Stop interrupting me."

"I just said that."

"No explanation needed."

In fifth grade, I won the school courtesy prize. In other words, I won an award for being polite. My brother, on the other hand, was considered the class comedian. We were very typically socialized as a "young lady" and a "boy being a boy." Globally, childhood politeness lessons are gender asymmetrical. We socialize girls to take turns, listen more carefully, not curse and resist interrupting in ways we do not expect boys to. Put another way, we generally teach girls subservient habits and boys to exercise dominance.

/snip

These two ways of establishing dominance in conversation, frequently based on gender, go hand-in-hand with this last one: A woman, speaking clearly and out loud, can say something that no one appears to hear, only to have a man repeat it minutes, maybe seconds later, to accolades and group discussion.

/snip

These behaviors, the interrupting and the over-talking, also happen as the result of difference in status, but gender rules. For example, male doctors invariably interrupt patients when they speak, especially female patients, but patients rarely interrupt doctors in return. Unless the doctor is a woman. When that is the case, she interrupts far less and is herself interrupted more. This is also true of senior managers in the workplace. Male bosses are not frequently talked over or stopped by those working for them, especially if they are women; however, female bosses are routinely interrupted by their male subordinates.

hlthe2b

(101,730 posts)
11. ..."he could now "even complete a whole sentence without being interrupted by a man"
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:33 PM
Jul 2014

from your spot-on article linked:

In the wake of Larry Summers' "women can't do math" controversy several years ago, scientist Ben Barres wrote publicly about his experiences, first as a woman and later in life, as a male. As a female student at MIT, Barbara Barres was told by a professor after solving a particularly difficult math problem, "Your boyfriend must have solved it for you." Several years after, as Ben Barres, he gave a well-received scientific speech and he overhead a member of the audience say, "His work is much better than his sister's."

Most notably, he concluded that one of the major benefits of being male was that he could now "even complete a whole sentence without being interrupted by a man."


Indeed.

cyberswede

(26,117 posts)
15. Really good article.
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:53 PM
Jul 2014

I'm going to be extra aware of how I treat my son and daughter, with regard to the topic of the article. I don't think I treat them differently...I wonder if I do?

DURHAM D

(32,596 posts)
16. Excellent article.
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 03:05 PM
Jul 2014

btw - did you see hidden post 10 below?

I guess strong female voices are forbidden on DU.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
17. Meh. I don't like the word 'bitch', so I would have probably voted to hide it
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 03:08 PM
Jul 2014

on that alone. Nothing strong or feminist about referring to other women as 'bitch'.

Sheldon Cooper

(3,724 posts)
19. If I thought it was being used ironically, I might give it a pass.
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 03:23 PM
Jul 2014

But I don't think that's the case here.

ProfessorGAC

(64,426 posts)
28. I Interrupt My Doctors All The Time
Tue Jul 8, 2014, 11:59 AM
Jul 2014

And only one is a woman. When they aren't answering what i really asked, or if they're belaboring a point, i cut them off. I'm the one paying the bill, so i'm the one making the rules of engagement.

Doesn't matter to me which chromosome pair they have.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
31. Are you male? Because it does matter what chromosome pair you have
Tue Jul 8, 2014, 03:52 PM
Jul 2014

Actually I suspect you are precisely the class (as type) of person identified by the article. Why interrupt when the question could be in the process of being answered? You as a Professor should be well aware that you listen first and then ask for clarification.

ProfessorGAC

(64,426 posts)
32. Yes I'm Male
Tue Jul 8, 2014, 04:03 PM
Jul 2014

And you've missed the point by a light year.

And no, i'm NOTHING like the type of person identified in the article.

And you also have no idea whether someone was in the process of answering the question i actually asked rather than giving medico speak. I can tell the difference.

If you're happy taking doctors' orders, rather than suggestions, good for you. But, i don't take their orders. That doesn't mean i'm not listening. A bit rude of you to suggest that i'm not.
GAC

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
33. Are you a medic? Do you have medical training?
Tue Jul 8, 2014, 04:16 PM
Jul 2014

If not how do you know what you claim?

It is obvious that you only see and read what you want to see or read, for I did not propose "taking doctors orders" at face value; I said listen first and then question. That procedure is the proper way to earn respect and gain insight, not interruption and contempt. If a student of yours pointed out that they were paying you for instruction and that you should impart information in the manner they prefer then you would find them impudent and rude. In the same way you treating medical professionals in the manner you do will not gain you the best service.

ProfessorGAC

(64,426 posts)
34. You Did It Again
Tue Jul 8, 2014, 04:30 PM
Jul 2014

I never said i don't listen. Why do you keep making that accusation?

Hence, your conclusions are based upon a premise that doesn't exist and you keep making up the conditions of the conversations with my doctors.

I stated a fact. If a doctor isn't giving me the information to the technical level i've asked, or is "dubming it down", or is simply taking too long to make a point, i'll stop them and redirect.

You can stop lecturing me. I have a very good neurologist, and great GP, and a very fine rheumatologist.

I've had MS for 20 years, RA for 4, and i barely ever have to slow down. So, my relationship with my doctors is obviously working well. Since you didn't know any of that, it was awfully presumptuous of you to draw so many preconceived conclusions.

intaglio

(8,170 posts)
35. Because interuption, by definition, means you do not listen to the complete statement
Tue Jul 8, 2014, 05:32 PM
Jul 2014

You stated that you interrupt but you cannot see that as rude and probably counterproductive. You have also, by omission, admitted to not being a medical professional therefore a medical professional cannot know whether your knowledge is superficial or if it has any depth of understanding, therefore they have to err on the side of simplification. This has to be done because there are too many fools who believe that a good vocabulary and a secondary education entitle them to second guess professionals.

Being brutally honest if you are in education and you carry this attitude into the lecture theatre then I pity your students.

 

Demeter

(85,373 posts)
42. It depends on the business the woman is in
Wed Jul 9, 2014, 08:12 AM
Jul 2014

These rules are really good for sex workers....

Maybe she should have specified which economic efforts require that women be silent and visually stimulating.

Enrique

(27,461 posts)
9. that author also advises women not to dress "ethnic"
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:22 PM
Jul 2014

my old company, which was almost all women, "attended" a webinar held by that author. Even some very conservative coworkers' there thought she was full of crap, and the woman whose idea it was do do the webinar apologized for it lol.

by the way, the term "Executive Presence", or "EP", became a running joke after that. Like, someone would fart and another person would say, "that doesn't show much EP."

Response to DonViejo (Original post)

SummerSnow

(12,608 posts)
12. She said, there are particular hurdles for people of color.
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:38 PM
Jul 2014

Oh so colored people talk loud and too much? OH FUCK YOU.

ismnotwasm

(41,921 posts)
14. "That's a women using her assets"
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 02:47 PM
Jul 2014

"Exactly"

The question and answer (fashion) went by without blinking an eye.


There's a problem here.

Since I work in in nursing, I always talk softer than normal, try to find a commonality with my patient so that they are comfortable. Why? Because they are fucking sick, sometimes dying. This is not only good sense, it's part of healing, building trust and having a rapport.

In business, if they is some occasion to raise your voice, female or male, well that needs to be done, now doesn't it? What I don't understand is why the author thinks professional women need special instructions on voice usage. There are women who are loud and boisterous and full of laughter, there are women who are quiet, intellectual and pedantic. When should be said, is for any gender, in a professional setting act prudently.

Pretty stupid. I wonder If her book will sell?

And since women's voices aren't what holds them back-- that's would be male dominated landscape of business-- and that's slowly changing anyway.

SummerSnow

(12,608 posts)
20. Guess this is their policy at Fox news
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 03:34 PM
Jul 2014

Bet they hold ' Be Quiet Woman 101 ' classes there. Must have been hard for Hasselbeck cause she was known on The View for talking a lot. Probably told her we don't allow that here.

 

elehhhhna

(32,076 posts)
21. Perfect advice...from a 900 yr old thrice-married cuckold and a Saudi "Prince".
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 04:52 PM
Jul 2014

I see the majority owners @ Fox are still exercising editorial control.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
23. I was told just that by my Assistant Superintendent: Stay mum until I've heard all. I said if we all
Mon Jul 7, 2014, 04:57 PM
Jul 2014

did that, every meeting would be completely silent.

No, we didn't get along. #stillloatheyoumaryrita

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
26. They are preaching to the choir
Tue Jul 8, 2014, 09:07 AM
Jul 2014

Isn't that pretty much the mind set of the average woman that watches fox?

It's nothing new - that's why they have the female anchors they have.

I don't think they have a single journalist on staff - do they? I mean someone with the level of education and experience of Rachel Maddow.

americannightmare

(322 posts)
29. Don't talk too much unless...
Tue Jul 8, 2014, 12:03 PM
Jul 2014

you're a conservative female Fox News anchor - then go ahead and let the ass gravy flow!

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
30. All of which ...
Tue Jul 8, 2014, 02:03 PM
Jul 2014
Also a little thing that you think is important is your presentation and your voice,” co-host Brian Kilmeade added. “Keep it low, don’t speak loud.”

“For women,” Doocy emphasized.


Is, as any Woman and PoC knows, a prescription for being ignored. As evidenced by, the rapt attention, and consideration, the males paid to Koolman's preceding comment of:

Co-host Anna Kooiman, however, argued that “women shouldn’t be so focused on what we look like, and what we’re wearing, but what our mind can do.”


Ms. Koolman ... Why are you on that network, and that show in particular? ... "what profit a (wo)man that gains the world; but loses (her) soul?"

bananas

(27,509 posts)
39. LOL - She's actually telling people not to act like the airhead Fox News hosts!
Tue Jul 8, 2014, 07:51 PM
Jul 2014

I think people are mis-judging this without actually watching the video.

Viewed in context, she's telling people not to act like the airheads on Fox News.

She says that guys make these mistakes too - as she looks directly at the guy.

When she says don't talk too much, it's in the context of feeling that you have to fill the space - don't feel like you have to be a "good host" and fill in dead air with irrelevant nonsense.

Always consider the audience - she's telling Fox News viewers not to act like Fox News hosts!

Very good advice for Fox News viewers!

And for the Fox News hosts, too!

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