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sheshe2

(83,728 posts)
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 05:30 PM Jul 2014

Not Just A Bull Market, Obama Recovery Points To A Strong Bull Economy



Spandan Chakrabarti: Not Just A Bull Market, Obama Recovery Points To A Strong Bull Economy

After employment data for June showed Barack Obama besting Bill Clinton’s record on sustained private sector job creation and June’s employment numbers crushing estimates, the DOW rallied to a historical high of over 17,000. To put it in perspective, the day Barack Obama took office in the midst of the greatest recession in (most of) living memory, the DOW lost over 330 points and closed at 7,949. the DOW wasn’t the only stock index to more than double its value over Obama’s presidency. In fact, all three stock indexes economists observe did. The NASDAQ more than tripled its value, going from 1,441 to 4486, and the S&P 500 closed at 1985 on Thursday, nearly 2.5 times its value at closing on January 20, 2009.


Consider a quick summary of yesterday’s jobs report: The economy has now gained private sector jobs for 52 months in a row, the longest ever on record, besting even Bill Clinton’s previous record of 51 months of sustained private sector job growth. In those 52 months, the economy has added 9.7 million private sector jobs. Adding 288,000 jobs, June not only blew past estimates, it marked 5 consecutive months of over-200,000 job additions for the first time since 1999. In the past year, the stubbornly high long-term unemployment rate has finally begun to drop. The last 12 months saw a 1.4 percentage point drop in unemployment, with fully half of that coming from the previously long-term unemployed finding work. The truth – and I know I keep repeating it – is that if any white president had accomplished Obama’s record on the stock market alone, let alone the rest of the recovery, they would be well on their way to be canonized as a bona fide American saint.

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/07/04/happy-birthday-america-and-thank-you-president-obama/
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Not Just A Bull Market, Obama Recovery Points To A Strong Bull Economy (Original Post) sheshe2 Jul 2014 OP
K/R. (nt) NYC_SKP Jul 2014 #1
hear, hear!!! Stellar Jul 2014 #2
Actually. The stock market's leap is in part due to the fact that bank interest rates are so JDPriestly Jul 2014 #3
The Stock Market success is wonderful for the 1%, but means little for the lower classes. rhett o rick Jul 2014 #5
While I agree to a point Sherman A1 Jul 2014 #21
It only is good if you are lucky to get in low and out high. I think it averages out with rhett o rick Jul 2014 #61
Had I retired in the 90's I too would have taken a beating Sherman A1 Jul 2014 #74
+2 woo me with science Jul 2014 #58
Unless you are in a lower economic class ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2014 #77
But where are the jobs? I'm still waiting. rickyhall Jul 2014 #4
In China and Viet Nam. Yeah, trade agreements. nm rhett o rick Jul 2014 #6
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Jul 2014 #7
Any gain in employment is laudable, but what are those gains? bluesbassman Jul 2014 #8
this is the new (permanent) normal. get used to it. Doctor_J Jul 2014 #28
It's even more disturbing when you drill into the numbers. bluesbassman Jul 2014 #32
Which if it cones out, will be credited to austerity Bickle Jul 2014 #9
The last indicators that are valuable defacto7 Jul 2014 #10
+1 nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #68
agree. defacto7 Jul 2014 #71
Well that didn't take long Andy823 Jul 2014 #11
Bravo. IrishAyes Jul 2014 #18
Pointing out that the "recovery" is heavily tilted toward corporate interests is fact. bluesbassman Jul 2014 #26
So Andy823 Jul 2014 #33
Sure things are better, but better for whom? bluesbassman Jul 2014 #44
So President Obama has done nothing good? Andy823 Jul 2014 #49
Sure he's done good things, and I'll applaud when it's warranted. bluesbassman Jul 2014 #50
I knew what you meant. But apparently some have a problem calling a weak recovery a weak recovery. nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #69
And some Andy823 Jul 2014 #76
True. n/t nomorenomore08 Jul 2014 #83
So tell me something Andy823 Jul 2014 #75
Well said Andy and I thank you for that. sheshe2 Jul 2014 #29
One thing I notice Andy823 Jul 2014 #78
It's DU. Market's up, wur doomed. Market's down, wur doomed. Flu virus research? WUR DOOMED! Warren DeMontague Jul 2014 #56
Yes, what's your point? nm rhett o rick Jul 2014 #62
Just a guess here Andy823 Jul 2014 #79
Your thoughts are about how everyone else feels. How do you feel? Are you satisfied rhett o rick Jul 2014 #80
Doom and Gloom in other words Andy823 Jul 2014 #81
Aaaah Warren, sheshe2 Jul 2014 #70
Yes, Thanks Obama! Course now the rw kochbaggers don't like Strong Bull Markets. Cha Jul 2014 #12
LOL~ sheshe2 Jul 2014 #15
I don't know how much Obama wants to own that statement Boom Sound 416 Jul 2014 #13
Guess you did not bother to follow any of the links... sheshe2 Jul 2014 #14
You'd guess wrong, had you guessed Boom Sound 416 Jul 2014 #17
speaking from my own experience. airplaneman Jul 2014 #16
My experience hasn't been bad bhikkhu Jul 2014 #23
Good for you goldent Jul 2014 #38
Its actually nice - 15% subsidy, but it goes to an etrade acount and no restrictions on selling bhikkhu Jul 2014 #59
That's the same deal we had - 15% discount goldent Jul 2014 #66
My 401k balance tanked in 2008 also goldent Jul 2014 #36
... napkinz Jul 2014 #19
First, I'm calling bullshit on this statement... winter is coming Jul 2014 #20
I know statistics is cold comfort if your own situation isn't improving bhikkhu Jul 2014 #27
The race card is getting played frequently these days. Doctor_J Jul 2014 #35
+1 The pre-emptive attempt to smear those who correct the spin here woo me with science Jul 2014 #55
"The race card is getting played frequently these days." slipslidingaway Jul 2014 #65
The Stock Market Is Not Main Street - Main Street Still Suffers While Wall Street Flourishes cantbeserious Jul 2014 #22
53% of Americans have no stock inverstments. progressoid Jul 2014 #24
Made of free money printed for the banks Boom Sound 416 Jul 2014 #30
How many regular people have 401's sheshe2 Jul 2014 #31
I have a very healthy 401K mcar Jul 2014 #39
Good for you mcar on the 401. sheshe2 Jul 2014 #57
most of the new jobs are in fast food and part time. Doctor_J Jul 2014 #40
I don't know any data that says most of the new jobs are in fast foods. sheshe2 Jul 2014 #43
here: progressoid Jul 2014 #67
less than half. progressoid Jul 2014 #42
The economy has never been better MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #25
Wow, I read the Harpers Article. I did not know pam4water Jul 2014 #63
Manny, let's be honest here. sheshe2 Jul 2014 #72
Great link newblewtoo Jul 2014 #82
K&R mcar Jul 2014 #34
No truer words written madokie Jul 2014 #37
if a Republican were president, the media would be calling it "Morning in America II" napkinz Jul 2014 #41
So true napkinz... sheshe2 Jul 2014 #45
No doubt - it would be the amazing "Romney Recovery" right now bhikkhu Jul 2014 #60
Bill Clinton presided over a much stronger economy Enrique Jul 2014 #52
Thank you madokie. sheshe2 Jul 2014 #73
Bull Market predicted thru 2016... link tomm2thumbs Jul 2014 #46
OH please the market is up because all the income is going to the top 1% and they have nothing else pam4water Jul 2014 #47
A 30-year bipartisan war against the 99% MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #48
Thank you Thespian2 Jul 2014 #51
+3 woo me with science Jul 2014 #54
:) pam4water Jul 2014 #64
K & R Iliyah Jul 2014 #53

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
3. Actually. The stock market's leap is in part due to the fact that bank interest rates are so
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 06:27 PM
Jul 2014

low that people who save their money in banks are losing value even at today's inflation rates.

So, that money in the stock market, that's gambling.

I will believe that our economy is really recovering when the long-term unemployed, those who have been out of work for a year or two or more and are either very young or over 50 start finding full-time work.

We are already 6 years post-2008.

Sorry. If the Republicans in the House had pulled their weight we would be much further into our recovery. The Republican House thwarted the funding of economic policies that could have sped our national recovery. Let's make sure the voters punish Republicans in November for the damage they have done to our country and to American families.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
5. The Stock Market success is wonderful for the 1%, but means little for the lower classes.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 06:32 PM
Jul 2014

I agree we need more employment and at higher paying jobs. Laying off workers at $65 per hour and hiring them back at $15 per hour isnt recovery.

Another important measure of our recovery is what our current infrastructure debt is. Has it gone down or up in the last 6 years?

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
21. While I agree to a point
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:23 PM
Jul 2014

gains in the market help 401k's and pension funds, so they are not entirely a bad thing.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
61. It only is good if you are lucky to get in low and out high. I think it averages out with
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 09:13 PM
Jul 2014

the banksters taking their cut on all transactions. A friend retired and needed to cash out in the late '90's and they took a terrible beating. It's gambling with a fancy name.

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
74. Had I retired in the 90's I too would have taken a beating
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 03:56 AM
Jul 2014

yet I have seen both my 401k & defined benefits pensions recover rather well. Granted as you say there is a aspect of gambling, there is that aspect to all we do in life, yet over the long haul I believe that the market has grown.

I am no friend of those in the banking and financial communities and believe that much heavier regulation needs to be in place and those that caused the mess we had in 2008 should be jailed or better forced to work in minimum wage jobs to pay back everything they stole. That said, the stock market does help, average folks in some ways.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
77. Unless you are in a lower economic class ...
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:12 AM
Jul 2014

And have a pension ... then the stock market means a little more than a little.

Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

bluesbassman

(19,369 posts)
8. Any gain in employment is laudable, but what are those gains?
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 06:39 PM
Jul 2014
In essence, the poor economy has replaced good jobs with bad ones. That is the conclusion of a new report from the National Employment Law Project, a research and advocacy group, analyzing employment trends four years into the recovery.

“Fast food is driving the bulk of the job growth at the low end — the job gains there are absolutely phenomenal,” said Michael Evangelist, the report’s author. “If this is the reality — if these jobs are here to stay and are going to be making up a considerable part of the economy — the question is, how do we make them better?”

The report shows that total employment has finally surpassed its pre-recession level. “The good news is we’re back to zero,” Mr. Evangelist said.

But job losses and gains have been skewed. Higher-wage industries — like accounting and legal work — shed 3.6 million positions during the recession and have added only 2.6 million positions during the recovery. But lower-wage industries lost two million jobs, then added 3.8 million.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/28/business/economy/recovery-has-created-far-more-low-wage-jobs-than-better-paid-ones.html?_r=0


In my opinion these loss/gain numbers have more to do with corporate greed than the President's policies. Similarly with the gains in the market. Clearly corporations on the whole are doing well, but where is that wealth going? Certainly not into creating sustainable living wage job opportunities to the majority of people looking for work.
 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
28. this is the new (permanent) normal. get used to it.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:40 PM
Jul 2014

As you probably noticed in this thread, even dems don't give a hoot about those who are struggling, as long as the president looks good. It says right there that the biggest growth sector is fast food. Now, why would someone trying to raise a family on part time fast food wages, reading all of the high fives in this thread, get excited about voting?

bluesbassman

(19,369 posts)
32. It's even more disturbing when you drill into the numbers.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:55 PM
Jul 2014

Contract and employment service jobs are replacing many of the mid level jobs so that the corporations can get around offering any benefits. So even people who are skilled and find jobs that are close to old wages are taking work that effectively is a net loss with zero security.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not putting blame on the President for this, it's taken decades to find ourselves in this position. However, the numbers are not indicative of a healthy economy that is moving to bring everyone up, and praising the President for our current economy is hollow praise IMO.

Bickle

(109 posts)
9. Which if it cones out, will be credited to austerity
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 06:41 PM
Jul 2014

And the Dems will whine and wimp and let them take the credit

Isn't it time to out the architects of our economic destruction behind bars?

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
10. The last indicators that are valuable
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 06:46 PM
Jul 2014

in assessing the health of the economy are the stock markets and real estate.

The only indicators that matter are jobs and wages.

The rest is fleece and insecurity.

Why don't people get this? That's no downer for Obama because there has been some stability and increases against great odds where it really matters, but to count on the things that destroyed the economy to begin with as a positive indicator is not well thought out.

As for austerity, that is what boosts the stock market and real estate at the cost of jobs and wage increases. Get it?

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
71. agree.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 02:08 AM
Jul 2014

I like good news, but reality is much more useful. I don't like to dream good things at the cost of facts as that tends toward being lead by the nose and making bad decisions.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
11. Well that didn't take long
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 06:58 PM
Jul 2014

It always amazes me that when things look good, the doom and bloomers jump in to spoil it all. Sure things could be better, but come on the president should get credit where credit is due. He took the Bush recession, which would have taken the country over the cliff if McCain and Palin would have won, and he has done one hell of a job getting us back on track. Sure the !% have made a lot of money on the markets, but the market highs is also helping those who have retirement accounts invested in the market. I lost a lot of what I had invested because of Bush, but I stayed in market, and now, thanks to the president, I have gotten back the money I lost plus more.

Sure we need more jobs, but how in the hell can that happen when teapublicans have fought him all the way doing their damnedest to stop and progress that they can when it comes to fixing this country. The republicans are the ones people should be pissed off at, they should be the ones being bashed on this board, not the president. If we want change we need to get out and make damned sure we put the republicans on congress out of work. We need to make sure during primaries we vote for the best democrats we can to run for office, and we have to remember that even if the person we wanted to run does not win in the primaries, we still need to make sure we don't let republicans win. Even the worst democrat is a thousands time better than any republican.

For those who try and push the meme that both parties are the "same", explain to me just what you thing this country would be like today if McCain or Romney were in office. Take a look at the states that need up with republicans running them back in 2010, do you really want to see that happen in your state, or worse at a national level?

I applaude the president. He has accomplished a hell of a lot since he was elected, and to say other wise is just plain wrong. Disagree with him all you want, that's the American way, but give him credit when he deserves it!

bluesbassman

(19,369 posts)
26. Pointing out that the "recovery" is heavily tilted toward corporate interests is fact.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:39 PM
Jul 2014

Not "doom and bloom". Glad the tremendous stock market gains helped your own personal recovery, but excuse me if I don't get really excited about net job gains that are in the bottom rung of the compensation ladder. A real recovery is going to take a lot more than formerly gainfully employed people getting jobs at Mickey D's, while the real beneficiaries of the "bull market" are the wealthy.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
33. So
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:00 PM
Jul 2014

Can you tell me that nothing is better? Would we be better or worse if McCain or Romney were in office? I admit we still have a long way to go, but it is getting better. Yes we need change, and we need to get people back to work, but how can that happen when republicans are there to squash any bills that would do just that, put people to work?

I don't care which democrat we put in the WH, as long as republicans control the House, or the Senate, and as long as their main goal is to STOP everything that would actually help this economy, nothing will change.

Would we be better off with republicans running things? I really doubt it. With all the BS the president has had to contend with since he was elected, I think he has done a fantastic job of trying to repair the mess Bush left us in.

bluesbassman

(19,369 posts)
44. Sure things are better, but better for whom?
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:19 PM
Jul 2014

When I look at the actual job numbers (not to mention the numbers for long term unemployed who have quit looking and fallen off the radar), I have to ask who is actually better off, and when is that recovery going to translate into a robust and healthy middle class? Which as we all know has been the foundation of all of our "strong" economies, and provides a platform for upward mobility to all of our citizens. Trillions gained in the stock market and hoarded by the 1% certainly does not do that.

The McCain/Romney statement is a straw man. Bush's policies including tax cuts for the wealthy and multiple wars were disastrous for our economy, but last I checked we're still hemorrhaging money (and real blood) in the Middle East and the wealthy are still enjoy tax cuts, so McCain or Romney would've presented more problems, but this thread is about Obama and what he's done, and in context of jobs and the Market it still boils down to the 1% receiving the lion's share which, going back to your strawman, is pretty much what would've happened under McCain Romney too.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
49. So President Obama has done nothing good?
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:27 PM
Jul 2014

And things would be pretty much the same if McCain or Romney were in the WH? Are you serious?

My whole point is that yes things could be better, but people should give the president credit were it is due, and he "HAS" done a lot to deserve that credit in my opinion.

bluesbassman

(19,369 posts)
50. Sure he's done good things, and I'll applaud when it's warranted.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:37 PM
Jul 2014

And I did not say all things would be the same, I even qualified that McCain/Romney would have created their own problems, so nice try but it won't work.

What I did comment on was that our economic problems have roots in a republican set of policies and actions that have lingered into our current economy and that the true numbers behind this "recovery" are not all that beneficial to the average American citizen. Does President Obama deserve "credit" for that fact? As I said in my first post, I don't believe he does, but on the other hand I'm not going to give him a lot of praise for something that is not all that beneficial to most Americans.

sheshe2

(83,728 posts)
29. Well said Andy and I thank you for that.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:42 PM
Jul 2014

Yes, the markets do help all of us with our retirement accounts ( which some conveniently ignore.) The ones Bush destroyed when he took the economy over the cliff.

Thanks Andy, no good news is ever applauded by some around here. As you said, that is just plain wrong.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
78. One thing I notice
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 09:14 AM
Jul 2014

In every thread posted about the good things the president has done, it's usually the same posters who come in and try and take over the thread and disagree with any facts posted.

It's also the same posters who attack the president on a daily basis that ONLY start threads, about the president, posting everything they can find to discredit the president. I think people have a right to disagree with him, but those who only want to bash him, and never give him credit, well I kind of wonder about their real agenda.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
56. It's DU. Market's up, wur doomed. Market's down, wur doomed. Flu virus research? WUR DOOMED!
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:58 PM
Jul 2014

Everything sucks, especially humanity which, by the way, is TOTALLY doomed.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
79. Just a guess here
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 03:08 PM
Jul 2014

But I think it means that some people on this board will never be happy about anything, they just want to see everything as DOOM! No matter what happens, no matter how much the president does to fix the mess Bush left him, it will NEVER be enough.

Just my thoughts.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
80. Your thoughts are about how everyone else feels. How do you feel? Are you satisfied
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 03:22 PM
Jul 2014

with the status quo? Personally, I see the richest country in the world with 25% of it's children in poverty. I see the president negotiating for globalization, guaranteed to drive a stake thru the heart of the American worker. I see the NSA/CIA with carte blanche to spy on everyone. Wall Street still controls our government and the wealth gap widens.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
81. Doom and Gloom in other words
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 03:40 PM
Jul 2014

I have admitted there needs to be changes, and I agree things are not equal and need to be fixed, but damn, the president has done a hell of a lot since he was elected that is actually "GOOD" for the people of this country. No president, and I mean NO president can do everything that every single voter wants them to do. Without the help of congress who does the president make the changes we need to happen? He can't make laws, congress does. He can, and has tried to get congress to work with him, but republicans have fought him every step of the way.

We need congress to pass bills to help those children that are in poverty, bills put tougher regulations on Wall street, bills to create jobs, bills to fix the infrastructure, and on and on. We need congress to do their job!

Am I satisfied? No, but then again no matter who was in office right now, democrat that is, the republicans would be doing the same shit, so what is your solution? We can vote Warren, Sanders, Clinton, or any other democrat into the WH, but if we still have one house of congress controlled by republicans, what will change?

I honestly feel President Obama is one of the best presidents we have had in my life time, and I am 63. While some here will bash the president and say he has accomplished nothing, I know better. My daughter can now get health insurance without paying huge premiums because of a pre-existing condition. Millions will be able to get health care for the first time. Obama care will change health care as we once knew it and for the better. I could link to a list of all the things he has done since elected to help this country, but I have done that before and sadly many refuse to see the facts. Sure he has made mistakes, but he has done far better things for this country that he never seems to get credit for.

You want change then vote the republicans out of office, it's the only way to make it work.

sheshe2

(83,728 posts)
70. Aaaah Warren,
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 01:48 AM
Jul 2014

Thank you.

You made me laugh! I needed that from rainy flooded storm soaked NE. We will get over that when the sun comes out tomorrow. However...

Some will always claim doom. Yikes.






sheshe

airplaneman

(1,239 posts)
16. speaking from my own experience.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:10 PM
Jul 2014

I lost money on my 401K on the 2008 crash but I lost just about the same amount between then and when I moved all my 401K into a low interest low risk fund in June of 2012. Maybe part of it was my fault in the choices I picked but my gut feeling is that the banks skim off 99% of everything there is to be made in the recovery and "BULL" stock market. I recall the saying bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered. I would be interested in anyone else experience.
-Airplane

bhikkhu

(10,715 posts)
23. My experience hasn't been bad
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:31 PM
Jul 2014

In 2008 I didn't have a 401k, but I did have a decent job and a house. The job became more of a struggle, a small business where money became very tight, and so keeping above water and keeping the house wasn't easy. But, I managed, stayed on top of bills and fixed some credit issues, and took advantage of a low interest re-fi two years ago (thanks, Obama - really!). Things have been pretty smooth sailing since then.

I've been able to sock away half a year's wages in a mutual fund, and its up 20% over the pat year. Now I have a better job, where I put 3% into a generic company-run 401k, and 3% into a subsidized employee stock purchase program. Three years ago (at age 46) I couldn't imagine retiring, ever; now its looking very possible.

My brother and his fiance have both always done well, with decent sized retirement accounts. His lost 60% in 2008, while she had been in the process of changing funds - hers was all in cash when the shtf. Needless to say, while my brother has basically recouped, she's done quite well. Its a running joke how much smarter she was, but of course it was just lucky happenstance.

goldent

(1,582 posts)
38. Good for you
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:06 PM
Jul 2014

One suggestion - do not leave the amount of money in the company stock get too big. Having a lot of money in a single stock is risky, even if it is your employer. I've been hurt a little by this, and I've seen people hurt in a very big way.

bhikkhu

(10,715 posts)
59. Its actually nice - 15% subsidy, but it goes to an etrade acount and no restrictions on selling
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 09:07 PM
Jul 2014

The employee stock purchase thing isn't in any regulated retirement plan, so some of the guys just sell the stock as soon as the buy goes through (once a quarter) and pocket the 15%. I've been told the company doesn't care or track any of that.

On the 401k, its all regulated. I don't know what percent goes into company stock, but its not much.

goldent

(1,582 posts)
66. That's the same deal we had - 15% discount
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 11:22 PM
Jul 2014

and people said they would sell it every few months. But things were going well, and people forget about it. Then when the big fall came (with no hope of recovery) people were out a lot of money. I'm still writing off the capital losses on my taxes, years after this occurred.

I agree that the company does not know (and/or doesn't really care) if you sell it soon after you buy it.

If you have a choice on your 401k, my suggestion is index funds, looking for very low expense ratios. And then resist the urge to try to guess the market, just keep contributing.

goldent

(1,582 posts)
36. My 401k balance tanked in 2008 also
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:03 PM
Jul 2014

I couldn't bear to look at the actual amount - I knew is was bad. I gritted my teeth and did what the so-called "experts" said to do for someone of my age, and continued to allocate nearly all new 401k contributions to stock. Well, all of the lost value has returned and more, and the contributions that went in at the depths of the recession have tripled in value.

I learned a lot during that time, the main thing being to start backing out of the stock market well in advance of when you know you will need the money (retirement or other expense). I have done some of this recently and am glad I did even though it cost me money. The people who really got hurt in 2008 were those who panicked, or those who needed the money and did not have the time to ride it out.

winter is coming

(11,785 posts)
20. First, I'm calling bullshit on this statement...
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:21 PM
Jul 2014

"The truth – and I know I keep repeating it – is that if any white president had accomplished Obama’s record on the stock market alone, let alone the rest of the recovery, they would be well on their way to be canonized as a bona fide American saint."

My opinion of how the economy's doing and how the President's handled it are related to which financial advisers he's chose to listen to. It's got jack shit to do with his race. And yes, I fully realize he inherited a stinker of situation and is trying to make the best of a bad job. I just wish he'd chosen to listen to economists who are focused on the little people instead of Wall Street.

Second, woohoo, a bull economy. There was a time when "bull economy" translated into "prosperity for all". Those days are gone, so you'll excuse me if I don't jump for joy. For those of us with no jobs, no health insurance, and no realistic expectation of getting either in the foreseeable future, the happy talk falls very flat. Upbeat news stories don't pay the bills.

bhikkhu

(10,715 posts)
27. I know statistics is cold comfort if your own situation isn't improving
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:39 PM
Jul 2014

...but 10 million jobs have been created, and many millions of people have health insurance now who didn't have a chance before. My job was only a iittle affected by the recession, but my current better job is largely possible because of the recovery.

And my family has health insurance (affordable health insurance) now entirely because of the ACA. A lot of people still do without, but things are finally moving in a decent direction there, largely thanks to Obama's work. I'll transition to the employer-run plan in November, which is pretty good. They announced a little while ago that, for the first time in 15 years, there won't be any rate increases over the next year, in spite of having to up coverages to comply with the new law.

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
35. The race card is getting played frequently these days.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:03 PM
Jul 2014

Seems that all of the president's critics are now racists, even if they voted for him twice. Best of luck to you in your struggles. As seen in this thread, even alleged dems can ignore reality when it's handy. You're just not on the radar of the government at this point. Hopefully the major realignment we need will happen in time for you.

woo me with science

(32,139 posts)
55. +1 The pre-emptive attempt to smear those who correct the spin here
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:57 PM
Jul 2014

illustrates awareness of the weakness of the argument to begin with.

slipslidingaway

(21,210 posts)
65. "The race card is getting played frequently these days."
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 10:18 PM
Jul 2014

Noticed this as well, it is a continuing and disturbing trend

progressoid

(49,969 posts)
24. 53% of Americans have no stock inverstments.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:33 PM
Jul 2014

62% of the weath is owned by 5%. A bull market means nothing to most Americans.

sheshe2

(83,728 posts)
31. How many regular people have 401's
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:54 PM
Jul 2014

or any other retirement account? If they do then they too benefit. Remember when Bush wiped all that out when he sunk the economy.

mcar

(42,298 posts)
39. I have a very healthy 401K
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:07 PM
Jul 2014

The only thing my employer left me when I got downsized last year. I'm still unemployed but I celebrate the gains and thank the President for these accomplishments in spite of the absurd opposition.

sheshe2

(83,728 posts)
57. Good for you mcar on the 401.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 09:00 PM
Jul 2014

And hang in there, you'll find a job. It was about eight years ago that my company went out of business. It took me a while and yes I had to take a pay cut yet at my age I didn't have much choice.

sheshe2

(83,728 posts)
43. I don't know any data that says most of the new jobs are in fast foods.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:17 PM
Jul 2014

However having been in retail for more years that I want to count, there were always 401 accounts.

And part timers never receive benefits, they never have.

progressoid

(49,969 posts)
42. less than half.
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:14 PM
Jul 2014
Study: 401(k) retirement plans failing most workers
The report from the Economic Policy Institute, a liberal-leaning public policy think-tank, illustrates how the shift from pensions to individual savings accounts has affected retirees. The authors find that it is the wealthiest workers whoare benefiting the most because they can actually contribute enough to make 401(k) plans work for retirement.
"401(k)s were never designed to replace pensions for most workers. They serve primarily as a tax shelter for high earners," said economist Monique Morrissey, the report's co-author, in a statement. "The 401(k) revolution has been a disaster, yet some policymakers are calling for cuts to Social Security, which will be the only significant source of retirement income for most Americans--if they are able to retire in the first place."

The report also found:

Households earning in the top fifth accounted for 72 percent of total savings in retirement accounts in 2010 and were the only income group that had more than their annual income saved in these accounts.

Participation in defined-benefit pensions by workers from 25 to 61 years old declined over the past decade, from 52 percent in 2000 to 45 percent in 2010.

For single people, black and Hispanic households and those headed by someone without a college degree, the median household has no savings in retirement accounts.

On average, white households have more than six times as much saved in retirement accounts as Hispanic or black households.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/study-401k-retirement-plans-failing-most-workers/
 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
25. The economy has never been better
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 07:33 PM
Jul 2014

for the .01%, not ever. A trillion bucks a year has been printed by the President's appointees at the Fed to prop up the economy of the fortunate few. The stock market has soared, and banker bonuses were saved.

Well done!



For the rest of us... bupkes. The weakest recovery since the last depression, fueled by bipartisan demands of sensible adult austerity against the 99% and President Obama's dogged pursuit of Hooverian economics.

Barack Hoover Obama

pam4water

(2,916 posts)
63. Wow, I read the Harpers Article. I did not know
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 09:33 PM
Jul 2014

Hoover was an orphan, and still grow up to screw us all.

sheshe2

(83,728 posts)
72. Manny, let's be honest here.
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 02:30 AM
Jul 2014

A while back ProSense asked you about your financial situation. She stated that other people were really hurting and you in fact were not in the same situation. You admitted that you are in the 2-3% bracket and that is only because you had an off year. My memory is pretty good. That is almost verbatim. That is what you stated. I read it here.

And no, I have no link. I tried to find it yet it was a sub-link. You can deny it, yet both of us know that you said it.

So I ask you please to stop...

For the rest of us... bupkes.




The economy has never been better for the .01%, not ever. A trillion bucks a year has been printed by the President's appointees at the Fed to prop up the economy of the fortunate few. The stock market has soared, and banker bonuses were saved. .


If it so great for the 1%. How do the 2-3%ers feel. Pretty damn good is what I would expect.

So please do not pretend that you are one of the lost middle class. You are not.

newblewtoo

(667 posts)
82. Great link
Sat Jul 5, 2014, 04:42 PM
Jul 2014

Thanks Manny, that should be required reading for everyone at DU. It may not be as uplifting as some puff pieces but it certainly does nail down he corners. Prescient.

madokie

(51,076 posts)
37. No truer words written
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:05 PM
Jul 2014

"The truth – and I know I keep repeating it – is that if any white president had accomplished Obama’s record on the stock market alone, let alone the rest of the recovery, they would be well on their way to be canonized as a bona fide American saint."

bhikkhu

(10,715 posts)
60. No doubt - it would be the amazing "Romney Recovery" right now
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 09:11 PM
Jul 2014

and the repugs would be riding high. As it is, they have to pretend its all phoney numbers and dig their little delusion-holes even deeper.

tomm2thumbs

(13,297 posts)
46. Bull Market predicted thru 2016... link
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:23 PM
Jul 2014
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-great-obama-bull-market-will-roar-till-2016-2014-07-03


No matter how much conservatives will forever hate to admit it, if the Great Obama Bull Market keeps roaring till 2016, it deserves a chapter in the history books. Celebrate the birth of our great nation ... a bull run till 2016 ... the Dow roaring to 22,000!




pam4water

(2,916 posts)
47. OH please the market is up because all the income is going to the top 1% and they have nothing else
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:24 PM
Jul 2014

to do with. While income for the rest of us is still falling. It has dropped to levels from 1966.

The issue of inequality has irrefutably returned to the fore, riding on the anger against Wall Street following the 2008 financial crisis and the concentration of economic and political power in the hands of the super-rich. The Occupy movement made the plight of the 99 percent an indelible part of the public consciousness, and concerns about inequality were a decisive factor in the 2012 presidential elections.

How bad is it? According to Pulitzer Prize–winning journalist David Cay Johnston, most Americans, in inflation-adjusted terms, are now back to the average income of 1966. Shockingly, from 2009 to 2011, the top 1 percent got 121 percent of the income gains while the bottom 99 percent saw their income fall. Yet in this most unequal of developed nations, every aspect of inequality remains hotly contested and poorly understood.


 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
48. A 30-year bipartisan war against the 99%
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:27 PM
Jul 2014

As Richard Trumka put it so well, "I've had a snoot full of this #%^*".

Iliyah

(25,111 posts)
53. K & R
Fri Jul 4, 2014, 08:53 PM
Jul 2014

Won't hear anything good from the rightwingers, which includes GOPers and Libertarians, corporate media and even a few here at the DU, anywho

He's trying to get a national minimum wage increase and better paying jobs but the GOP refuse to work with him and the do nothing GOPers only goal is to obstruct and impeach him. Screw the country and her people.

Oh hats off Mr. President!

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