General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsJindal, Tea Party and many on DU agree to trash Common Core curriculum. Jindal has signed
an executive order not to implement Common Core in Louisiana. I guess this is where the hard left and hard
right meet. Common Core had support on both sides when when it was implemented, however, now with all of
the negative spin out there it is being trashed and torn apart. So I guess they go back to the shitty curriculum they
had before.
Like many on this board. Doing nothing is better than trying a new path. I don't get why so many are against upgrading or
changing our flawed and broken system. Changes can be made if something isn't working. But doing nothing is insane.
This, it appears is what the so many on this board want to do (Nothing) Well you can now move to
Louisiana for your educational needs.
http://gawker.com/bobby-jindal-defies-legislature-issues-order-to-drop-c-1592749648
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Pisces
(5,592 posts)those that want to cancel The Affordable Care Act. This is a good start to our broken system. Now lets tweak it. Why
would we rather repeal and have the same crap we had before? The one that has us ranked 26 out of 34 countries in math.
We have an abysmal system, so we should attack all ideas and changes and stick with our old system and utopian ideas
about eliminating poverty.
I wonder how much of our site and thinking has been changed by the nonstop GOP media blitz and bots that we have
on the air and internet. Many of those disguised as Democratic view points.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)put children first and not test scores. Put someone in office who will not appoint someone like Arne Duncan who loves corporations and hates teachers. Put someone in office who will make changes like Sweden and other countries have done where children are treated as individuals and not robots.
Pisces
(5,592 posts)Sweden, but we know which children would benefit and which would lose out. The same as today. You are making this
about 1 person, instead of the bigger picture. This is what has happened to education. Arne Duncan and Michelle Rhee
have become the villains. Anything with their name attatched becomes garbage. Sorta sound like anything with Obama's
name to the right wing. It is true whether you want to admit it or not. Nothing is trusted that comes from Arne Duncan
by this board. It could be the greatest idea ever and many on this board with automatically be against it.
We are as guilty as the right wing against Obama. Think Obamacare. Maybe Common Core will work and maybe it
won't, but the premise is not outrageous. The outline of the standards seem reasonable. We are falling further and further
behind as we continue to argue semantics. We need try new things.
My own children have been taught Core Knowledge curriculum which is not exact but close to common core standards. It is
a wonderful curriculum. I don't understand why we wouldn't want all children to experience it.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)change that.
Pisces
(5,592 posts)mind supersedes the poor in baltimore etc. So do my own. This is the kind of thinking that has placed us so far
behind. In other countries it is about the needs of the many and there are national standards. I understand that not
every child will benefit, but the majority will. That is if it is given a chance to work.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)My daughter took several advanced classes. But my son should not be forced to take advanced curriculum that he cannot handle.
MattBaggins
(7,894 posts)FSogol
(45,356 posts)Who here approves of common core?
BTW, Fuck Rand Paul.
elleng
(130,127 posts)Pisces
(5,592 posts)from heaven. No, but nothing is going to be perfect. We need to have changes in our system and no one was willing to do
it. Now when it has been done, everyone is at the ready to tear it down. Just like Healthcare reform. Our own side
can be just as damaging.
Too bad Obama doesn't own a magic wand or a sceptor to fix all the problems with the wave of his hand.
randys1
(16,286 posts)The standards are:
Research- and evidence-based
Clear, understandable, and consistent
Aligned with college and career expectations
Based on rigorous content and application of knowledge through higher-order thinking skills
Built upon the strengths and lessons of current state standards
Informed by other top performing countries in order to prepare all students for success in our global economy and society
that first one, evidence-based, is what got them I think...
Pisces
(5,592 posts)yet. The standards you just posted sound reasonable to me. Yet many would prefer to argue, fight and do nothing.
randys1
(16,286 posts)They look down on intellect and education...
Chathamization
(1,638 posts)etc. Just like some people lumped the bailout and the stimulus together, or believe that Citizens United was about all corporate political donations.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)IF Common Core curricula were produced entirely by actual teachers with experience as teachers, and passed around between districts, that would be great. If, on the other hand, districts are purchasing pre-made curricula produced by RW 'educational corporations' that just happen to have lessons that teach the standards while also reinforcing things like supply side economics, you've got a problem.
elleng
(130,127 posts)as education MUST be done/implemented locally, and there will be problems and confusion, everywhere.
EVERYTHING is anecdotal, that's the 'beauty' of public education.
There has not, generally, been adequate time for states and administrators and schools and teachers to establish mechanisms to implement. In the interview in link I posted, teacher seemed confused between WHAT was being taught and HOW it was being taught, and that canNOT be.
Too bad President Obama didn't select an Education Secretary who was more able do know and do the right thing, like Linda Darling-Hammond.
http://dianeravitch.net/2013/10/24/linda-darling-hammond-on-the-common-core-standards/
Pisces
(5,592 posts)must be taught how to implement the standards and new curriculum for it to be successful. I am frustrated at how
many would prefer to do nothing when we are failing miserably. And yes, sometimes action is better than inaction.
We can not continue to throw good money after bad.
The other problem is how schools get their funding. The wealthy areas get more because of home taxes in their community.
Everything in life is not fair and poor areas should get more tax dollars. We need to bolster the area that are lacking.
elleng
(130,127 posts)for a long time, and is surely among the top 1-3 big issues. Lots of states have litigated this, and it becomes a serious political matter. There IS no EQUAL without adequate funding, period.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)"It's NEW!" isn't a gauge of effectiveness.
Moreover, we're talking about hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars being spent annually at a time when the public's patience with the education system is at a nadir. The last thing public education needs is to spend billions of dollars over many years only to learn it was an investment in a worse result.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)The destruction of public education system is not something I am willing to hold my nose and accept. My autistic son is being treated like herded cattle, and I will not stand for it. My son came home from school crying almost everyday in 6th grade because he was being forced to take a Common Core 6th grade math class when he had a 4th grade math comprehension. He actually asked me if he could skip school because he didn't want to go to math class. Common Core made him feel stupid when he is the complete opposite of stupid. He is bright, curious, resilient, resourceful, and creative. He has a passion for science despite having a C+ average in his general education science class. He admires Einstein because Einstein didn't do very well in school either and still turned out to be a genius. I will not hold my nose and just accept Common Core.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)femmocrat
(28,394 posts)My opinion, for what it's worth:
I think the conservatives resent any imposition of standards from the state, believing that education is a local domain.
Teachers basically hate more standardized testing and more cookie-cutter approaches that diminish their abilities to reach individual students. Even though my subject area was not covered by CC, it was overruled by the emphasis on math and reading to the exclusion of our own subject-area standards. Teachers also pretty much dislike having students' test scores comprising a large portion of their evaluation scores.
Pisces
(5,592 posts)change is hard. We need to start somewhere. I don't think teachers evaluations should be held to their scores until
training and curriculum has been taught properly. Maybe 2 to 3 yrs. I don't think that Common Core is cookie cutter.
Here is the link to Common Core Curriculum. It gives many examples. My own children are being taught Core Knowledge.
It is a great curriculum.
http://www.coreknowledge.org/CCSS
This curriculum covers the standards and more. We are not teaching to the test because the kids are learning what is needed daily. They are given the test cold.
MattBaggins
(7,894 posts)and if a child has difficulty in an area it is a big so sad too bad and fuck you. There is no time or deviation from the method allowed to help those children.
femmocrat
(28,394 posts)The ones listed in our state were all charters. There were no public school districts listed. I am not sure, but in the past charters have not been held to the same rigorous testing criteria as public schools. This has been a bone of contention with a lot of public school teachers.
However, I do not know if that has changed under Common Core. One of our well-informed DUers will probably know, though!
Chathamization
(1,638 posts)I've heard a lot of people talk about that, but haven't seen much evidence. Granted, it may be part of how individual states that choose to follow the new standards implement things, but how to implement the standards (and even if the states want to implement them or not) are up to the states.
Some of those other cons are odd too: "some states that had higher standards will actually have to accept lower standards." Why will they have to accept lower standard? Common Core is optional. They can choose to lower their standards to fit common core, choose to keep their standards, or (to my understanding) keep what they want of each and discard the rest.
Pisces
(5,592 posts)test well. I think this is what some people think will happen. There are radical people that think this is the government
take over of education just like the government takeover of healthcare. The language has become hyperbolic and
virtually the same as the arguments against ACA.
Chathamization
(1,638 posts)its something thats optional, created by the National Governors Association for states that want to have consistent standards with other states, and about having shared standards (from my understanding). A lot of the criticism Ive read about it demonstrate complete ignorance as to what it actually is.
Pisces
(5,592 posts)involvement.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Pisces
(5,592 posts)MattBaggins
(7,894 posts)You act as if it was an improvement.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)We count up to reach a dollar, dollars to reach five, five to reach ten, tens to twenty etc. The problem is, that we understand why the math works. We know how to add, subtract, multiply, divide, and we understand fractions. We know that 1/8th is smaller than 1/4. We know that .5 is larger than .25 and so on. We learned math the old way, first the explanations. If I have four apples, and you have six apples, how many do we have between us? We learned how to apply the math, and as time went by we learned the shortcuts. Finding sets of ten in a long string of numbers to add up as an example.
The problem with Common Core is that it skips the why and goes straight to the short cuts. Math becomes a mystery, instead of a scientific fact. If we continue down the road of Common Core, I can see people making gestures as if to some far off deity as they count up to the answer, or the question, or whatever.
Math is a wonderful thing. I admit, I was a bad math student as a child. I barely passed it. Then I started as a young man, to understand why math worked. I was fortunate to have some friends who could teach me math that has helped me tremendously. But that teaching was lain on a foundation that even I as a bad student had. Now, I can do Algebra, even some of the basics of the more advanced math. Don't get me wrong, when I read a scientific paper on astronomy or physics, I have to take their word for the math because I can't do it. Symbolic math is so far beyond me as to be another language.
But I understand that it works. I understand why it works. I understand about the fusion in the Sun, the slamming of Hydrogen to make Helium, and helium to other elements. None of this is a mystery to me, because I understand that the math works, even if I couldn't do the calculations myself.
What we are doing with Common Core is taking away that foundation, and making all the kids nothing more than people qualified to work a cash register. We are denying them the understanding of the amazing and mind boggling field of math. Because no one is going to go from the basics of common core to a university math program. The kids can count change, but they can't work the math. Because they don't have the foundation they need for the more advanced math.
Look at the Pythagorean theory. You are on one side of a river. You want to know how far across it is to the other side of the river. Before you can build a bridge, you must know this so you can design the bridge. By using one of the oldest math formulas out there, you can find out with nothing more than a compass.
I met a girl earlier this year, and she was frustratingly working out the volumes of objects for her science class. She thought it was all useless. I laughed and told her how important it was. I used the Apollo program to demonstrate how vitally important that volumes were. How much fuel do we need to achieve orbit? We need X amount, and that will fit into a tank this large. When you add weight, you have to increase the amount of fuel, which means even bigger tanks. You just can't cobble the thing together trying different sizes of tanks, until you come across the right one by accident. You have to start out knowing how big the tanks have to be.
Without that simple math, the math she's doing right now in science class, the journey to the moon would have been impossible.
Then I hit her with the speed of light. Light travels at 186,000 miles per second. A SECOND. In one second, light has traveled 186,000 miles. The light that brightens our day from that big old sun in the sky has traveled for eight minutes to get here. If the sun exploded right this second, we wouldn't know a thing about it for eight minutes. When we see a star go Nova in the sky, that light has been traveling for thousands, tens of thousands, sometimes millions of years to get here. If the light from our sun has traveled 93 million miles in eight minutes, imagine how far the light from something a thousand light years has traveled.
You should have seen her face light up as I explained all of this to her. Math matters, because without it we can't really understand the universe we live in, or how amazing this world really is. Only through math can we truly understand the astonishing variety of our planet, and the amazing universe we live in.
Eight planets, 168 moons orbiting the main planets. All in orbit around our sun. The sun is in orbit around the center of the Galaxy, all of those forces perfectly balanced. The motion of earth just right to keep from getting further away or closer to the sun. The motion of the moon just right to keep it above us for the next five million years or so. 168 moons orbiting the sun while at the same time orbiting the planets they are bound to by the predictable force of gravity.
All those miracles of our universe are lost without an understanding of math. All of those amazing things become whatever events without thinking for a moment about how perfectly balanced it all has to be.
This is why I am opposed to Common Core, because it ignores the foundation that we must have to really understand our world. It teaches the shortcuts, without teaching the why. Without the why, there is no way to explain to the kids the wonders of the universe, because the math is awesome when you see how amazing it really is.
fujiyama
(15,185 posts)But one correction - the sun is the center of the solar system, not the entire galaxy. The galaxy contains many millions of stars and solar systems.
Savannahmann
(3,891 posts)I thought I said that the sun was in orbit around the center of the galaxy, which would include the solar system. If I did state it wrong I apologize. It's late, and I've had a long day.