In 2011, 72% of Democrats* said they were Christian....

[moriah]

*(includes voters that lean Democratic vs lean Republican)

... and 27% go to church weekly.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150611/democrats-liberal-less-white-2008.aspx

That's an awful large part of the Democratic base who profess the Christian faith. 7% of us practice another faith, so that's nearly 80% of likely Democratic voters who acknowledge a religion. Naturally, many of us who are religious to some degree or another are here at DU.

I don't see threads getting started attacking people for lack of faith.

It'd be nice if the favor could be returned.

[Octafish]

1. How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

A group doesn't have to be big to disrupt, just organized.

[William769]

2. And we are the one's that are told we have issues.

I will probably get slammed for this but turn the other cheek.

I am a Christian, I am also a Gay man. My cheek gets it from both sides being that combination.

[moriah]

3. *hugs* n/t

[roguevalley]

32. thank you, OP for the post

[nomorenomore08]

23. I'm a hetero non-believer, but I went to Catholic school all my life and have certainly been

influenced by the more progressive, social-justice-oriented wing of the Church. I could probably write a whole book on my contentious, deeply ambivalent (but more negative than positive overall) relationship with the RCC. And I know many religious denominations, for centuries, have treated LGBT folk horribly (to say the least) but I can respect another person's spiritual quest regardless of their particular faith or sexuality.

[wyldwolf]

4. here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025107712

[MattBaggins]

5. You are not being attacked.. put the victim card back in the deck

[moriah]

9. What are comparisons to mental handicaps, then?

Warm fuzzies?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

10. Actually, they are...

And if you think they're not, you have something of a reading comprehension problem.

Just in the last few minutes, I've seen posts to the effect that Hillary Clinton is pandering because she's "too smart and well-educated" to have faith. Meaning that anybody who professes faith is stupid and ill-educated. I've seen posts equating any faith system as the equivalent of believing in the Santa Clause and the Tooth Fairy, which is profoundly insulting to people of faith.

You know, we're supposed to be better than the other guys. We're supposed to be the Party that can accept people as who they are and not what we are. What I've seen on this board in the past 24 hours has been a textbook example of prejudice. The sort of thing I was certain that Democrats didn't do. So I guess that the moral here is that when it comes to small-minded bigotry, the GOP hasn't cornered the market.

[alp227]

18. So regarding the tooth fairy/santa clause analogy,

could you please show why it's wrong? I thought the argument was that belief in any supernatural being is absurd in the first place.

Of course, people should be accepted for who they are, but shouldn't there be freedom to criticize each others' beliefs? It's not bigoted to criticize others' beliefs.

[nomorenomore08]

24. I think most people's faith - aside from that of right-wing fundies at least - is quite a bit more

nuanced than belief in a supernatural Santa Claus. As an atheist/agnostic (I prefer to just say "non-believer&quot I certainly don't subscribe to the anthropomorphized Christian idea of God, but I also don't believe that human knowledge (or the human brain, for that matter) is advanced enough to comprehend everything that is - without going into too much detail, I've had experiences which at least suggested to me that "reality" extends beyond our mere subjective experience of it. Mock me if you want, but I think it would be awfully arrogant to say we know anywhere near everything there is to know about the universe(s).

[yeoman6987]

35. It's not bigoted to criticize others' beliefs.

Are you serious? A liberal progressive is really saying this? A liberal who should accept everyone for who they are? I am surprised.

[alp227]

41. So tell me where I'm wrong. Nt

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

42. Depends on how you do it...

Equating one person's belief in God to a belief in the Tooth Fairy is glib, not particularly insightful, and patently disrespectful.

It's entirely possible to debate cosmology without disrespecting the beliefs of others.

[treestar]

47. It is wrong because people will always wonder how we all got here

how existence came about. We know we made up Santa Claus - he's not that profound. But we wonder who the Creator was.

[Scootaloo]

31. Hi Jeff, I'd like you to not lie about what I said

Just in the last few minutes, I've seen posts to the effect that Hillary Clinton is pandering because she's "too smart and well-educated" to have faith. Meaning that anybody who professes faith is stupid and ill-educated.

Here's what was actually said:

Clinton did not specify ethical beliefs, just that the Bible is the biggest influence in her life. As you say, she's no bible-thumper. In my opinion she's too well-educated and intelligent to place a mishmash of Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek, and Canaanite mythology on such a pedestal.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5107469

It's a critique of a book, and the likelihood that said book is the "biggest influence" on Sec. Clinton's thinking. It's a bland, pat answer that even Clinton herself recognized as being trite and predictable as she said it. Had this statement come from any other politician in the fucking world, surely you would be rolling your eyes right along with me at the inanity of it.

Clinton said nothing about faith - just that the bible was the "biggest influence on her thinking." Bible does not equal faith. i did not address faith, either. Now if you want my opinion of faith, or religion, maybe you could ask, instead of assuming?

[Paolo123]

36. Results of jury service

On Tue Jun 17, 2014, 09:55 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Hi Jeff, I'd like you to not lie about what I said
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5109969

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Stalking across threads. And I did NOT identify the person as the source. I'm placing them on Ignore.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jun 17, 2014, 10:02 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Calling out someone for "lying" over what is at most an inaccurate generalization is a bit over the top. Can we not insist on a modicum of civility on DU?
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: So place them on ignore. Don't waste our time with stupid alerts because you have a thin skin.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: I thought the post was very insightful, and on point, have no idea about the alleged stalking. How so you stalk in comments sections anyway?

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Hekate]

14. Yes they are, at DU. How dare Hillary or any Dem profess their beliefs even when asked?

I haven't been a Christian in years and years, but what's going on at DU right now is making me ill, because it has descended into outright slander.

[hrmjustin]

37. When we are called mentally ill we are being attacked.

[leftstreet]

6. Is there a Hillary Clinton Victim Bingo Card yet?

Anyone?

[Bluenorthwest]

7. What are those people doing to address the pogroms in Uganda?

Do 'people of faith' ever criticize the actions of their own? I think if they did so more often, others might not have to do it for them so much.

[William769]

12. Am I included in that group you just painted with the biggest brush I have ever saw?

Because I would beg to differ and yes the people that I associate with that are Christian's have done there utmost to bring relief to the LGBT people of Uganda.

Your pettiness and insincerity is really showing here.

[Bluenorthwest]

13. I asked what they were doing. Sorry if that's too much.

I do think more self policing of the religious hate mongers by religious people themselves might help tamp down the discussion of the hate and hate mongers that seems to upset you so.
Note, Bill, I did not state a thing, I asked and commented that more diligence in the faith community toward their own crazies might help reduce the criticism the faith community hears due to their own crazies.
I asked a question. Which was enough to upset you and make you get very personally insulting.

You say you 'beg to differ'. But what is it exactly that you differ on? I get the insult part, which is very Christian of you, but I do not really see what it is you are taking issue with. You beg to differ with a question asked?

[William769]

16. I don't think you understand what you yourself wrote.

As to your Christian remark, The first thing I am reminded of is that I am not perfect nor will I ever be. Yes I can be a smart ass when need to be I give as good as I get.

I as well as the people I am associated with have spent time, energy and money to change law's in Uganda. To move people that are under prosecution to safer Countries and even to get many asylum in various Countries including the U.S.

That's what we are doing. Feel free to jump in anytime and give a helping hand.

[m-lekktor]

34. as a gay man I am with you 100%, Bluenorthwest!

though i have no stomach to argue religion with the "majority" apologists/religionists.

[Hekate]

15. "Those people"? You mean the Democrats, members of our own party, voting for Dems...

...that we hope will take on the social justice issues at home and abroad, hopefully without military intervention? "Those people" who aside from the characteristics I've just described, have personal spiritual beliefs that diverge from yours?

Really.

[nomorenomore08]

26. He has a point about moderate and progressive Christians and their frequent timidity RE:

fundamentalist attacks on both them and others. By not forcefully standing up to the extremists, the rest of us - believers and non-believers alike - only further imperil ourselves, not to mention vulnerable minority groups (like LGBT's in the developing world).

[Hekate]

29. Then say so, & refrain from "Those People" statements, or I may lose my temper & say "You People"...

...in reference to DUers.

[nomorenomore08]

30. I agreed with the spirit of Bnw's post, but not necessarily his choice of words.

I myself would never choose to be so accusatory, but I understand where it came from. People in other parts of the world are quite literally losing their lives over this shit.

[el_bryanto]

39. This does remind me of the posts about Moderate Islam by Ann Coulter and others

In the years following September 11. "If Moderate Muslims really exist why aren't they preventing these terrible terrorist acts. Why don't we ever hear any Muslim condemning the radicals."

In fact there are plenty of Christians taking the more extreme members of their religion to task; they are not very effective because the radicals generally declare anybody who deviates from the party line not to be a "real" Christian.

Bryant

[nomorenomore08]

45. Fair point. I certainly didn't intend to smear all Christians with my comment. n/t

[pnwmom]

19. What are you doing to address the pograms?

[hrmjustin]

38. You know damn well that we and other people of faith have condemned that law.

[Al Carroll]

8. That has little to do with faith

Blue, most Americans don't know about Uganda, and the media doesn't report it much.

[ripcord]

11. Many religious people do very good things

More than those who do wrong I would say.

[jtuck004]

20. Many people do good things whether they are religious or not. Has nothing to do with it. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

17. Christian and mixing It up with the prosperity cult are not only different

but distinct to the point of opposite despite wrapping themselves in such.

It is the economic ideology that is the basis and backbone and it is there the bonds with "religion" aka Trojan horse scammy, flammy way to create a powerful zone of influence on our political system for the benefit of the usual suspects, the motherfuckers with everything already.

You want to know who is really "playing chess"? It is the vulture class and they work EVERY angle and build new ones to leverage to stay ahead.

All of that said, folks that believe odious shit are free and entitled to run but I don't owe them my vote as a show of tolerance or because they are in my party. That is nonsense but it doesn't matter because I was already lost on economics anyway, this tie just magnifies the alarm because I'm left wondering where the rabbit hole goes.

Don't give me tactical association crap either, there is no constituency in the Democratic party that really needs you to check that box (no, not even for a woman) and few that it has any plausible traction from such folks and none to few that is negative, including Democratic Christians because the folks that believe as such ain't hanging around these parts.

That means you are talking the power merchants and the money people, I don't see how that can be defined as a good thing at all since our fight is exactly with them and the rest we have to go through to get to them are cannon fodder.

[ibe]

21. Does anyone else have the idea that we're just

not going to progress until our species puts our beliefs in the household and get them out of the business of the planet? It's none of our business who you like to sleep with, what you believe in, what foods make you sick...

we have house parties and churches for that.

The business aspect of running a Country has no room for subject matter that is conceptual and subjective.

Clearly we can't all vote whether roasting or baking potatoes is best when we're all arguing over which colour and size is the best to use. Throw 'em all in the pot, it's all edible, few bad ones but they still make for great compost.

[Gravitycollapse]

22. That denies the very nature of belief. Which is to incorporate into life...

Despite our feeble laws trying to push one out of the other, there's going to be comingling. I think it is utterly naive, and frosh to just assume one can be separated from the other because the truth is they are part of the same fabric of ideology.

[ibe]

25. It doesn't deny it all, just puts it in its rightful place.

When people start putting the subjects in which we argue over in the drawer of things to be discussed After business hours, is the time we can actually start getting work done. Politics is just as Dangerous as Religious in running a business, quit arguing over what we don't agree on and start finding out what it is that we do agree on.

It's not about what we want, it's not about what our beliefs are and what others should or shouldn't be and believe in, it SHOULD be about what's best for the Country as a Whole.

Even now, as it usually does, the thread has turned into a gay argument.

[Gravitycollapse]

27. Welcome to DU. What do you mean by "a gay argument?"

[Egnever]

28. DU does not reflect the democratic party.

Time after time after time DU is far removed from the majority of the Dem party.

[moriah]

33. Still, there are many members of Democratic Underground who identify as Christian.

And many others who identify with other faiths.

It'd be nice for people to stop being assholes to each other.

[whatthehey]

40. Well

I'm not sure a group that has its beliefs enshrined into US law, on our money, inserted into our oath, directing our calendar, serving as a vernacular synonym for good and decent, promulgated at almost every meeting of government at any level from national to village, broadcast by dozens of tv channels, radio stations, magazines, claimed by all but a literal handful of our national elected officials and every single one of our final arbiters of law, enjoying unchallenged media authority as the voice of morality and ethics, and avowed by a 80%+ part of our population has much to worry about victimhood.

But by all means I suspect atheists would be fine swapping all that for some piddling snark on a couple of websites. I mean it really hurts believers so that's a fair trade surely?

[Orsino]

43. Perhaps we should only bother attacking those who lie and kill in the name of Christ. n/t

[Exposethefrauds]

44. Bring it on. You want to attack atheists I say go for it

Besides nobody is attacking those of religious faith

The only time faith should be attacked is when religion and faith are brought into the public sphere, As in mandatory prayer in school for example.

As long as people keep it to themselves no problem whip if out then we got problems, big time.

[moriah]

46. So random insults like inferring that belief in Jesus and the Tooth Fairy...

... are equally inane, suggesting religion is a mental handicap or illness, etc, is not attacking those with faith?

Now, I support the Flying Spaghetti Monster movement, because it's narrowly tailored toward addressing mixing religious teachings and science. There's a reason for the satire, and no, I'm not expecting people to go teach that Mother Earth gives birth to the Sun each year (I'm Pagan). I wouldn't mind a religious anthropology course that points out that Pagans believe that, and then teaching about the science behind the solstices and equinoxes as well as historical evidence of how humans may have discovered this phenomenon and how religions formed around it (up to and including Christianity, given that their Son is born curiously close to the Winter Solstice...). But not teaching religious instruction as pure science.

Of course, I bet a lot of people would totally flip out over such a class, though I would think it would be fun!